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  1. #26
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    I got another ride in over the weekend on the DT with AVY'ed DHX.

    This climb was more a smooth singletrack climb with some switchbacks and a few minor tech sections.

    I added 2 clicks of compression and found the rear end much less bobby on this climb.... though not quite as plush on a few square edge rocks that I encountered.

    I totally meant to dial those clicks back out before the descent but forgot until about half way down. Surprisingly it didn't seem to bother the stellar performance in the fast, rough stuff so may consider leaving in at least one click of extra compression all the time. (Craigs starting point was 7 clicks out from full hard)

    More jumps and drops on this descent so was anxious to see how the rear end handled off lips. With the rebound set at 6 clicks out from full slow it seemed to keep up with the chop pretty well but was controlled and did not kick off lips so I liked that.

    Again landing off drops was nice. Plush, no bottoming, nice ramp up.

    The one odd thing I noticed and not sure how to adjust things to elliminate it was the back end would get a little skippy while standing and pedaling through rough, rocky sections. Any thoughts on that? Rebound too slow?

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominator13 View Post
    Craig,
    I have had this conversation with you and your explanation was excellent, so I thought those that don't understand could get a glimpse into that vault of suspension knowledge that you call a brain.

    What is you method and or reason for custom tuning the shocks you build?

    How does it affect each rider? i.e. weight, riding style, curves etc...

    What is the difference between your shock and say a CCDB?

    What is/was your connection to PUSH?

    What made you venture into the world of MTB from MOTO?


    Just a few questions to answer so that the Knollyaddicts can appreciate what you do and why you're doing it.

    p.s. A side note. I just wanted to tell everyone that I am not in anyway shape or form associated with Avalanche Suspension. I have had the pleasure of talking to Craig, a Guru of Suspension, and using his product and it is really impressive what he knows and what it transforms your bike into.

    "What is you method and or reason for custom tuning the shocks you build?"

    We have always been custom valving suspension. When we first started to modify motocross suspension in the 1980's we were accounting for the spring rate changes, linkage leverage rates and racing conditions so for us it seemed only natural to design a shock and fork that not only could be revalved but would be built to order and be custom valved for each rider.

    For many years, the manufactures of production shocks and forks only produced one version of each shock and fork and relied on the customer or frame builder to select the correct spring for the rider weight or frame size. This provided a small degree of tuning limited by the external adjustments for low speed adjusters. As the sport evolved some of the mass production suspension makers started trying to offer custom tunes, like A B C or soft med and hard builds. This was a step closer but still relied on the frame makers to sell the right shock for each frame and distributors now had to stock many versions or each shock not knowing the end users needs. This provided us with an advantage when selling shocks and forks directly to customers.

    Today we look at each frame according to the leverage and they generally fall into three categories. Falling rate(VP/DW style), linear and rising rate. The terrain generally affects valving based on DH, freeride and urban/stunt. DH valving is more linear compression and faster rebound, freeride has slighter more compression with slower rebound and stunt requires firm compression with slow rebound. The rider speed and ability also contributes to the valving set-up. Rider weight determines the correct spring rates to use and therefor affects the rebound valving only. Rising rates are generally preferred for better shock performance with lighter damping required, this makes for longer oil life and better shock durability. One of the issues of rising rate linkages is that increased shaft speeds at the middle to end of stroke can cause to much damping for shock absorbers and some less complicated dampers cannot relieve themselves of this excess damping force efficiently. This causes a harsh feeling or what suspension tuners call hydraulic lock. Falling rates add extra leverage initially to improve pedaling and low speed performance and require lighter damping forces on small bumps and extra damping force to stop bottoming. Linear systems fall in the middle and require an average or compromise style valving to provide proper damping i.e. do you want it better on small bumps or better for big hits.

    As you can see there are many factors that go into custom tuning. We have to ask many questions when a customer calls and wants to order or have their shock or fork custom tuned. This is why a smaller company is more able to provide this service but at the same time it also limits them to a smaller customer base. Personalized tuning can expand to a larger base with the proper franchising or growth of the parent company.

  3. #28
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    An Avy custom tune shock based on bike suspension, rider weight, and riding style preference gets you into the ideal ballpark. How significant are the LSC, HSC, rebound clicks within this ballpark. I have read folks saying 1 click made a huge difference and others stating multiple clicks made a difference or no difference? I noticed Craig's settings for the Chilcotin were the same as my Podium - though similar designs, one is built around an air shock and one is built around coil shock. Folks seem to be using heavier springs on the Chicotin than the Podium. I assumed that Craig dialed in the shim stacks, etc and these are his goto ballpark settings.

    Thanks,
    Jamie

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    An Avy custom tune shock based on bike suspension, rider weight, and riding style preference gets you into the ideal ballpark. How significant are the LSC, HSC, rebound clicks within this ballpark. I have read folks saying 1 click made a huge difference and others stating multiple clicks made a difference or no difference? I noticed Craig's settings for the Chilcotin were the same as my Podium - though similar designs, one is built around an air shock and one is built around coil shock. Folks seem to be using heavier springs on the Chicotin than the Podium. I assumed that Craig dialed in the shim stacks, etc and these are his goto ballpark settings.

    Thanks,
    Jamie
    The goal is to get the internal valving as close as possible so that the external adjustments start off in the middle of the range for fine tuning only, but in some cases the terrain is so different that the adjustments are used to compensate for a vast change in conditions, we consider this a compromise in initial set-up and have to pick a best average. External adjusters can never make up for bad internal valving, they are always a compromise or "band-aid" fix. Also some of the adjusters that we do not modify might be biased towards one end just because the stock adjuster originally had too wide of range.

    As for the spring weight differences between frames, you must also consider the stroke when determining spring rate, longer stroke shocks need less spring rate for a given rider weight.

  5. #30
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    Bos is good stuff its a step up for some and down for others. They have some pet peeve issues the few guys I know who have had it bought it for the bling and rarity this being said a year later they are not on it anymore. I had the option to grab the fork and shock but just doen't have enough curiosity after hearing ups and downs with things and there were some reliability issues...

    Now side by side I have not rode these personally so I cannot comment
    personally on ride....the guys are on boxxers and fox shocks or ccdb right now...one is all avy now as well...

    They swap frames so they are running what the Frames come with or they'd be on avy...

    I have run about everything craig has put out and about everything out there with the exception of the bos personally and the ccdb air...

    I have never had a reliability issue with craigs stuff and the few times I've had a issue it was me not seeing the obvious (settings) or parking lot testing and no trail time.

    Was in here looking for a all mountain set up and ran a cross this and dominators post...(what's up Dom)

    I have a 2012 Fox 40 with the cartridge in it and my 2012 fox 36 talas 180 is on its way for a cart with my rc4... my fox dhx5.0 Ava modded is on the phoenix right now and no issues...

    Craig is great he's helped me in several ways as far as tuning and trying different things all have been solid and I've argued with him from time to time and someday I'll be right. With my not being right streak.

    I have to keep up the good fight so I don't completely get skunked and wrong 100% of the time...

    I'm married I can't be wrong 100% of the time on 2 fights that's lie 200% wrong...
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  6. #31
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    Cold weather riding

    Hi all / Craig,

    Winter arrived on my local trail y'day in a big way. It wasnt snowing at the car,but 20 mins into the ride it was absolutely dumping. I was amazed at how cold it was and how the snow stuck to our bikes...there was about an inch on my bars / fork crown whitch stayed there until the end of the day.

    I was surprised at how much this affected my suspension...the Avy felt noticably stiffer. The fork also felt a lot less responsive, but i think the front / rear were equally affected. My brakes interetinglyalso felt a lot fuller and i had to dial the levers in closer to the bar.

    I understand this is due to the oil thickening up in the cold - and thats reasonable. Does anyone have more detailed information?

    Interested to know how many people (living in cold areas) run lighter oil in their suspension in winter?
    Any other tuning tips would help (less compression damping)?

    What about the Avy, being coil...i didnt expect the cold to affect it as much. Any compensation that can be done on the settings? (now that i just dialed it in! )

    I cant even comment about whether the bike felt better after i had ridden it for a while and perhaps cycled the internals / oil ....because i could barely feel my hands and fingers. Time for some winter work gloves....any recomendations in that dept?


    Untitled

    My buddy

    Dumping snow in the MF
    I support EMBA

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    I cant even comment about whether the bike felt better after i had ridden it for a while and perhaps cycled the internals / oil ....because i could barely feel my hands and fingers. Time for some winter work gloves....any recomendations in that dept?
    I've been there, brother! In Moab one year (back in the days when full suspension mountain bikes were a novelty), I got sun-burned on the slick-rock trail one day. The next day we started Porcupine Rim with slight overcast conditions. By the end of the ride we had 4 inches of snow on our helmets. When your hands are freezing: it's hurts to brake, drop ledges, or even ride. Glad you made the most out of it.

    I did a google search on "heated grips for mountain bike" and found these: Heated MTB Ergo Tri. I'm sure there are others if you are serious about riding in the snow.

    Sorry, I can't help with the suspension info. (When it snows I switch to skies, snow kites, and snow machines.) I'm sure that Craig and some all-season riders can help you out.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  8. #33
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    Re winter gloves I've tried many and settled on sugoi firewall xt. Great to the low teens. Lower than that I don't go out. They are roadie gloves so not super durable but pretty tough. I paid $50.

  9. #34
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    Funny, I rode in 30 degree weather and snow yesterday, and I noticed no difference in my chubbie or avy fork cartridge whatsoever. Same settings, no changes.
    ****

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Funny, I rode in 30 degree weather and snow yesterday, and I noticed no difference in my chubbie or avy fork cartridge whatsoever. Same settings, no changes.
    What are your Avy fork settings? Are you running the air or coil Lyrik?

    Thanks for any info.

    TG

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    What are your Avy fork settings? Are you running the air or coil Lyrik?

    Thanks for any info.

    TG
    I have an avy cart in both of my Lyrik coil forks, and they are set up the same. Rebound is at about what Craig set it at [12 clicks], compresson is set at 3 clicks from full open.
    ****

  12. #37
    Yebo Numzaan
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    I have a fox float. Perhaps it was just that my entire body was frozen ? I am pretty sure i can notice the effect of the cold tho'.

    We were out there building for 6hrs...and my fleece gloves were wet from the climb and my work gloves were muddy and soaked. I need a second set of dry / fleece gloves for the descent at the end of the day. I was a mess trying to ride out.

    I have been using Outdoor Research gripper gloves for the last couple seasons (for riding)...what i need is some seriously warm winter WORK gloves.

    Another Seattle company is Filson... Goatskin Gloves...I cant imagine spending that much and then trashing them doing trail work
    I support EMBA

  13. #38
    MC MasterShake
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Hi all / Craig,

    Winter arrived on my local trail y'day in a big way. It wasnt snowing at the car,but 20 mins into the ride it was absolutely dumping. I was amazed at how cold it was and how the snow stuck to our bikes...there was about an inch on my bars / fork crown whitch stayed there until the end of the day.

    I was surprised at how much this affected my suspension...the Avy felt noticably stiffer. The fork also felt a lot less responsive, but i think the front / rear were equally affected. My brakes interetinglyalso felt a lot fuller and i had to dial the levers in closer to the bar.

    I understand this is due to the oil thickening up in the cold - and thats reasonable. Does anyone have more detailed information?

    Interested to know how many people (living in cold areas) run lighter oil in their suspension in winter?
    Any other tuning tips would help (less compression damping)?

    What about the Avy, being coil...i didnt expect the cold to affect it as much. Any compensation that can be done on the settings? (now that i just dialed it in! )

    I cant even comment about whether the bike felt better after i had ridden it for a while and perhaps cycled the internals / oil ....because i could barely feel my hands and fingers. Time for some winter work gloves....any recomendations in that dept?


    Untitled

    My buddy

    Dumping snow in the MF
    I'd be very surprised if the cold weather made any difference in your suspension's performance. I've been riding winters for many years in the Boston area and it's not uncommon for me to be out there in the low teens and I've never had any suspension issues at all on any of my shock setups. Perhaps the ground was starting to freeze. That will make your normal trails feel harsher for sure.

    As far as gloves goes I've been very happy with the basic PI gloves P.R.O. Softshell Glove - Pearl Izumi
    The waterproofing isn't great but if you can keep your hands dry they will stay warm in pretty cold conditions.

  14. #39
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    I've bought these Dakine winter gloves off chainlove last fall:.

    link

    I've only ridden in them once, but my hands were unbelievably warm. Not sure about the waterproofness though, as I've not ridden in them in rain or snow.

    They are a tad bulkier than your standard glove, but nothing I found detrimental or anything. Might be worth a look, on sale for $23 right now.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I've bought these Dakine winter gloves off chainlove last fall:.

    link

    I've only ridden in them once, but my hands were unbelievably warm. Not sure about the waterproofness though, as I've not ridden in them in rain or snow.

    They are a tad bulkier than your standard glove, but nothing I found detrimental or anything. Might be worth a look, on sale for $23 right now.
    Thanks for that link. Of course, now that the temps just dropped, I can't find my winter gloves anywhere.....

  16. #41
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    I noticed a difference riding in super cold weather vs just chilly weather ... From that picture I would be surprised if your suspension wasn't effected at all .. Also , I'm sure your tires started to harden up , ground conditions prob froze up , nothing to be worried about

  17. #42
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    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  18. #43
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    Hey guys,

    I have a question. Right now I have a lyrik RC2DH solo air which I plan(ned) on getting AVY'ed in the near future. My question is that does it matter what fork you send to AVY?

    If I got an older blown lyrik R and send it to craig, would it come back just as good as if I sent him my rc2dh solo air? Or for that matter, there are cheap older marzocchi forks from their crappy years (08-09) on PB that are cheap.

    Another question. Coil vs. air being serviced from AVY? Personal preference or a huge difference?

    Basically, the RC2DH solo air has pretty good resale value compared to an older marz or stock lyrik. I could sell my RC2DH and get a crappy/blown fork and send it to craig, or would it be best to send him my current fork?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I have a question. Right now I have a lyrik RC2DH solo air which I plan(ned) on getting AVY'ed in the near future. My question is that does it matter what fork you send to AVY?

    If I got an older blown lyrik R and send it to craig, would it come back just as good as if I sent him my rc2dh solo air? Or for that matter, there are cheap older marzocchi forks from their crappy years (08-09) on PB that are cheap.

    Another question. Coil vs. air being serviced from AVY? Personal preference or a huge difference?

    Basically, the RC2DH solo air has pretty good resale value compared to an older marz or stock lyrik. I could sell my RC2DH and get a crappy/blown fork and send it to craig, or would it be best to send him my current fork?
    no need to send the rc2dh as he removes the damper side anyways.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post

    Another question. Coil vs. air being serviced from AVY? Personal preference or a huge difference?
    How much do you weigh?
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    How much do you weigh?
    Yep, Craig will tell you that over 185#ish, you really should be on a coil.

    That being said, I've a couple rides on a 160mm Lyrik two step Avy and am pretty impressed. But I'm a huge hack.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I have a question. Right now I have a lyrik RC2DH solo air which I plan(ned) on getting AVY'ed in the near future. My question is that does it matter what fork you send to AVY?

    If I got an older blown lyrik R and send it to craig, would it come back just as good as if I sent him my rc2dh solo air? Or for that matter, there are cheap older marzocchi forks from their crappy years (08-09) on PB that are cheap.

    Another question. Coil vs. air being serviced from AVY? Personal preference or a huge difference?

    Basically, the RC2DH solo air has pretty good resale value compared to an older marz or stock lyrik. I could sell my RC2DH and get a crappy/blown fork and send it to craig, or would it be best to send him my current fork?
    We do prefer coil over air (more linear, less friction). Really does not matter which chassis because we remove all the damper side components when our cartridge is installed. Based on this, the lowest cost fork you can find is your best option.

  23. #48
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    I am about 165 geared up but I think that I will try to locate a coil fork since I will be sending in a DHX coil as well, I think that would match nicely.

    Thanks guys.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    But I'm a huge hack.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Keep working on your skills and maybe that CCDBA won't die every other ride. Or just get an Avy.

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