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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleevem1 View Post
    guys, this is a great thread. As a Noob i'm second guessing every five minutes what tires I should start out with. TSC, have you put any thought into the Schwable HD Gravity. With all that rock you are exposed too the slight weight penality on the tire might be worth it. I think they come in the three Schwable compounds and they are folding tubeless. Anway food for thought. Also does anyone know if there is any differences between the 2012 and 2013 Hd's. Bike-discounte has the 2012's on sale for a bit cheaper than the 2013's.
    sorry I meant TiSS'er not TSC......
    Hey Sleevem1! I actually asked bike-discount.de about the tires and they informed me they there is no difference between the 2012 and 2013 models, except for some writing on the side wall. Apparently, when those are gone, they're gone, and you'll pay the slight upcharge for the 2013 HDs. Hope this helps.

  2. #27
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    You guys which have had issues with the Maxxis Exos as tubeless. Did you run them straight up on the rim or setup DIY with a 20" tube? I had no issue on a 721s with a 20" tube but when I tried them straight on the rim with some tape for the spoke holes I burped them like crazy within 5 minutes of leaving the car. Installed a tube and completed the ride. I wouldnt even setup them up on a tubeless rim.
    I am planning on trying the HDs on both CB Opiums and non UST rims. Can they be installed on a non UST rim without a 20" tube? I have only just received my Opiums for my new trail bike and have never run UST rims before so its always been DIY tubeless. Last time I ran Schwalbes they were not tubeless ready so I always used a 20" tube. Obviously I woudl prefer to loose the littel extra weight and not run any tubes but it does give alot of added bead support.
    I just want to ride.

  3. #28
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    I've run 2.4 trail king black chillis and 2.35 Hans dampf's the tubeless ready pacestar ones and I prefer the Hans dampf's. They are set up tubeless on flow rims. interestingly I have never flatted the Hans dampf's but have the trail kings. Both times were punctured sidewalls.

  4. #29
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    FWIW, I really like the Hans in pretty much all conditions here in the PNW. I've only ran it in the rear however. (I like Muddy Mary up front). I also ran the trail star compound, tubeless on Flows, and about 27 psi. I'm about 215 RTR, but I might start trying to lower my PSI a bit.

    The one on my hardtail has been on awhile and still has life left in it, but that doesn't see as much riding as the Chili. The first one on the Chili lasted ok the first few months I had it, say April until about July. Then I really started working on my corners, and the thing went to hell in a handbasket fast. Knobs tearing, some ripping clean off. I threw another one on since I got a pair of new ones for a screaming deal, so we'll see how this one wears.

    If this one wears fast like the last one, I might give the Pace Star compound a go.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    When I finished my last ride the front was down to 16psi I let a little out along the way, rear was about 20psi. Next ride I'll set them at 18 front and 20 rear and likely settle there unless I'm hitting rim at speed. For SOMO I'd add a couple PSI.
    WOW. That is ridiculously low. Marc was running 24psi and they felt stout, so I can see it.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpcaser View Post
    Have you thought of just bumping up in size to the Butcher SX 2.5? I run TK2.4 UST and I'm thinking these will be my next tires once/if they ever wear out.
    The 2.3 SX is bigger and more burly than the 2.3 Controls. The 2.3 SX is actually a pretty good size.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  7. #32
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    Yea i noticed with the Schwalbe tires you can run super low PSI .. I had a HD out back setup tubeless and it felt good . Grippy but this is for NE conditions .

    I had some Big Bettys out back on my DH bike , worked in every condition possibly and took some super chunky rocks and held up just fine .

  8. #33
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    Had another long ride on the HD's today. Desert loose over hardpack, steep climbs and descents. The longest descent was very loose due to some recent trail maintenance and is littered with very tight switchbacks that have steep run-ins and exposure so your entry position and tracking is critical. The front tire felt like if I turned into the switchback it wanted to continue straight ahead. It had a squirmy feeling when the bike is upright. This sensation had me out of sorts as I didn't recall it when I rode the same trail a couple weeks ago (same conditions) with the Butcher on the front. I'm not sure what it is - maybe the lack of a channel and outer rail of knobs, round profile, just me, not sure? On the faster descents I wasn't feeling them either. I thought I had adjusted and started to like but today just wasn't working. I'm not sure what to think - they felt great climbing! Good traction and acceleration and don't feel like I'm pedaling a 'heavy' tire. Maybe the transition knobs give the vague feeling? Nevegal comes to mind (yuck). I think I just prefer a tire without them. I'll continue to ride the HD's to see if I can adjust but wanted to throw out this feedback and see if anybody else has experienced this coming from a tire without transition knobs.

    Also, tiSSer I know you're used to no transition knobs so maybe proceed with caution. If I find I can't deal with them and they still have life left I'll mail them to you to try out. I need to slim down my tire collection

  9. #34
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    LN, perhaps your pressures are too low? Running my front at 22 and have no complaints about steering.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    Had another long ride on the HD's today. Desert loose over hardpack, steep climbs and descents. The longest descent was very loose due to some recent trail maintenance and is littered with very tight switchbacks that have steep run-ins and exposure so your entry position and tracking is critical. The front tire felt like if I turned into the switchback it wanted to continue straight ahead. It had a squirmy feeling when the bike is upright. This sensation had me out of sorts as I didn't recall it when I rode the same trail a couple weeks ago (same conditions) with the Butcher on the front. I'm not sure what it is - maybe the lack of a channel and outer rail of knobs, round profile, just me, not sure? On the faster descents I wasn't feeling them either. I thought I had adjusted and started to like but today just wasn't working. I'm not sure what to think - they felt great climbing! Good traction and acceleration and don't feel like I'm pedaling a 'heavy' tire. Maybe the transition knobs give the vague feeling? Nevegal comes to mind (yuck). I think I just prefer a tire without them. I'll continue to ride the HD's to see if I can adjust but wanted to throw out this feedback and see if anybody else has experienced this coming from a tire without transition knobs.

    Also, tiSSer I know you're used to no transition knobs so maybe proceed with caution. If I find I can't deal with them and they still have life left I'll mail them to you to try out. I need to slim down my tire collection
    Lance,

    Thanks for the detailed review. I know the feeling you are talking about, and I have yet to find a tire with transition knobs that give me that "oh so good feeling". Tires without transitions just seem to work well for me.

    We hit Holbert today, and the Butcher was just hooking up. I never think about them, and they are real easy to get over on the side knobs. I was really close to ordering a set of HDs, but for some reason decided to put a Butcher SX I had sitting around on the rear of the bike to replace a Ground Control GRID. I like the GC, it rolls fast, but the side knobs are suspect. I am unable to get them to hook up on off camber rock. Unfortunately the Butcher is very soft and roll like a$$. I'll see how these work out, though I know they won't last long on the rear.

    I am trying out the DHF/DHR 2.35 combon on the Endo. I will see how that works out as maybe I will try the 2.5 DHF 3C EXO on the Chili. Maybe HighRoller 2 EXO on the rear.

    Does anyone know why the Ardent DH is no longer listed?
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    I am trying out the DHF/DHR 2.35 combon on the Endo. I will see how that works out as maybe I will try the 2.5 DHF 3C EXO on the Chili. Maybe HighRoller 2 EXO on the rear.

    Does anyone know why the Ardent DH is no longer listed?
    The 2.35 DHR is probably my favorite rear tire for lighter applications but I slash the sidewalls too darn easily Still, it's such a great tire climbing, braking, cornering, everything. Wishing Maxxis would offer it in an EXO. I rode the DHF 2.5 EXO on the front for my trip with you guys and loved it. Felt right at home immediately! Like velcro. I'd say it's a step up from the Butcher in traction but a little portly for XC/trail rides. After reading the comments about EXO issues setup tubeless I feel like I dodged a bullet on that trip. Also, prior to running the HD's I had an Ardent 2.25 EXO on the rear with the Butcher up front. That was my light set up. I didn't have any issues keeping the tire on the rim at 22psi. The traction isn't the best so you have to be more on point on sketchy climbs and descents but it rolls fast and the EXO offers good protection.

  12. #37
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    One thing to remember about the Hans Dampf is they are big, actually f*ucking Huge.
    Aired up tubeless on 819's, they measure out at 2.55"

    I have been using them as my "trail" tires, both TrailStar for 2 seasons. Love em.

    michael
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post

    Also, tiSSer I know you're used to no transition knobs so maybe proceed with caution. If I find I can't deal with them and they still have life left I'll mail them to you to try out. I need to slim down my tire collection
    Thanks Lance, let me know if you decide to throw them in a pile somewhere.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Thanks Lance, let me know if you decide to throw them in a pile somewhere.
    I'd be happy to "test" one out as a rear tire if you get sick of it.

  15. #40
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    I have been running the HD as a front for a while now. For my riding and locale I prefer it over the DHF. To me it is more predictable and easier to manipulate. The tire has a pronounced "I'm washing out" feeling but a quick flick of the bars gets you back in traction. Running a Fat Albert UST in the back, it has great traction, and rolls well.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Thanks Lance, let me know if you decide to throw them in a pile somewhere.
    Quick update. I picked up a new Butcher for this morning's ride and am noticeably faster in the corners and more confidently over the front with it. I like it and it's staying. The HD will not be going back on the front... That was an expensive experiment - I've had a couple of those lately.

    One new observation however, my previous Butcher was a 2012 I believe and the new one is what I think is a 2013. I swear it's slightly smaller and Specialized added some ribbing to the sides. I tossed the worn out 2012 so couldn't compare directly.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    Quick update. I picked up a new Butcher for this morning's ride and am noticeably faster in the corners and more confidently over the front with it. I like it and it's staying. The HD will not be going back on the front... That was an expensive experiment - I've had a couple of those lately.

    One new observation however, my previous Butcher was a 2012 I believe and the new one is what I think is a 2013. I swear it's slightly smaller and Specialized added some ribbing to the sides. I tossed the worn out 2012 so couldn't compare directly.
    Butcher Control? I have one of those at home waiting intall and it seems a bit smaller than the Butcher SX. I have an SX front and rear right now. I'm curious to see how it handles on the rear.

    I have done the same thing with tires. Spend lots of money to just come back to what I like. I find tires without transition knobs just offer more confidence when things get fast. I had a Hans Dampf in my hands today, but put it back....sounds like I may have saved myself a bunch of money too.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Butcher Control? I have one of those at home waiting intall and it seems a bit smaller than the Butcher SX. I have an SX front and rear right now. I'm curious to see how it handles on the rear.

    I have done the same thing with tires. Spend lots of money to just come back to what I like. I find tires without transition knobs just offer more confidence when things get fast. I had a Hans Dampf in my hands today, but put it back....sounds like I may have saved myself a bunch of money too.
    It's a Control. I'm pretty sure Speshy made the 2013 slightly smaller as I want to say the published weight went from 750 to 730g. Look at your control to see if there are ribs on the upper sidewall. I don't think my previous Butcher had them.

    I agree the Butcher/DHF/etc pattern just works for tracking at speed.

    It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Butcher on the rear. I've run a DHF on the rear and it didn't work well on my local trails. It was fine until braking going fast over loose DG. Many love it though.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LncNuvue View Post
    It's a Control. I'm pretty sure Speshy made the 2013 slightly smaller as I want to say the published weight went from 750 to 730g. Look at your control to see if there are ribs on the upper sidewall. I don't think my previous Butcher had them.

    I agree the Butcher/DHF/etc pattern just works for tracking at speed.

    It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Butcher on the rear. I've run a DHF on the rear and it didn't work well on my local trails. It was fine until braking going fast over loose DG. Many love it though.
    My Butcher Control is almost a year old and has the little ribs on the side. The Control version is definitely smaller than the SX, but still a good sized 2.3. I wonder if the new ones are a bit smaller.

    I'm looking forward to throwing an SX on the Chili once i get a lighter trail bike built up.

    For what its worth I am enjoying the HD on the rear for my local riding here in SoCal. It is a bit hard to compare to my previous tire (purgatory) because of the recent rains and the subsequent hero dirt.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    My Butcher Control is almost a year old and has the little ribs on the side. The Control version is definitely smaller than the SX, but still a good sized 2.3. I wonder if the new ones are a bit smaller.

    I'm looking forward to throwing an SX on the Chili once i get a lighter trail bike built up.

    For what its worth I am enjoying the HD on the rear for my local riding here in SoCal. It is a bit hard to compare to my previous tire (purgatory) because of the recent rains and the subsequent hero dirt.
    Thanks for the clarification. I couldn't remember if the ribs were there or not. It looks smaller but could be an illusion since I was used to seeing the wide HD up there.

  21. #46
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    Anything but Nevegals!

    No one can ride those ghastly things!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    No one can ride those ghastly things!
    Finally something I can agree with Mrwhlr on.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought View Post
    Not that it is a fair test, but Rockdude and I rolled side by side on the road on a downhill section. We weight about the same, I am taller, was wearing armor and a long sleeve jersey so I probably had more air resistance. Rockdude was on Enve + TK (not sure which hubs), I was on TS HD on flows laced to King hubs. I was very noticably faster rolling down the hill (on pavement).
    Hmm. That is surprising. Just my butt feel, but on my trails the HD in TS compound felt noticebly slower than the TKs. Proof positive that CK hubs are faster than ENVE hubs I guess (or you're just a better coaster than Rockdude).

    Admitedly, I haven't ridden the TK's as much and only very little on my home trails and not at all on my 5 Spot, so your test may be more scientific than mine.
    Last edited by KRob; 01-09-2013 at 11:34 AM.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Butcher Control? I have one of those at home waiting intall and it seems a bit smaller than the Butcher SX. I have an SX front and rear right now. I'm curious to see how it handles on the rear.

    I have done the same thing with tires. Spend lots of money to just come back to what I like. I find tires without transition knobs just offer more confidence when things get fast. I had a Hans Dampf in my hands today, but put it back....sounds like I may have saved myself a bunch of money too.
    You chose wisely. I've seen how hard you ride. You would've blown those things apart. I got about 2 months of riding on my HD's before putting them away. I was riding them tubeless at the time and the 1st month was great. They went steadily down hill after that. I was flatting at least once a ride. I tried them with tubes for a couple of weeks and it got worse. Besides that the tread wore so fast it was ridiculous. If I stuck with them I'd been lucky to get 3 months out of them.

  25. #50
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    So general consensus is HD front and this is what I am looking trying next month. How do the FA and NN compare to each other for the rear? I have run a WW and it was good but I tore it up real quick. The knobbies were just too small and the siping seemed to weaken the tire as far as durability goes. Braking on hardpack didnt agree with the WW.
    I just want to ride.

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