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  1. #1
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    Hans Dampf SG not durable enough for me

    I really like the HD tires. They have a nice progression in the corners with predictable slide and roll fast. They are actually easier to set up tubeless than most tubed tires. You just put it on, with or without sealant, pump up with floor pump and away you go. Plus they are crazy light for the size of the tire. I rode the HD trailstar (medium compound) front and rear at the last Knollfest in phoenix and the rear tire took a beating but the front was fine (I am still using it on my Chilcotin). There were knobs that were shredding off the rear. I read up on it and apparently Schwalbe was saying there was a compound error, and some folks got their tires replaced. Looking for lighter tires for the Podium, I was hoping to get some Magic Mary's but they are not available yet.

    But when I saw Err post about liking the HD Supergravity in that Podium spread, I grabbed a couple. He rides Utah chunk, so I figured they had to be durable.

    I rode them during a muddy practice and race at Stevens pass (essentially 1 day of riding, about 4min x 8 runs) and then took them for a weekend at Whistler, 2 full days of riding. That is a total of 3 days riding. The knobs on the rear are shredding off again. I have come to the conclusion that the knobs are just too small for the forces involved. The front looks great, and I will keep it for dry days, but the rear is almost toast. It may be a better bet to run the Pacestar (the hard compound) in the back, but I am worried about traction in a race situation.

    Here are a couple out-of-focus shots of what I am talking about. Apologies for the point and click camera. Please note the stick which I placed underneath two half torn off knobs for illustration purposes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hans Dampf SG not durable enough for me-hans-dampf-sg-010b.jpg  

    Hans Dampf SG not durable enough for me-hans-dampf-sg-011b.jpg  

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  2. #2
    Err
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    Your wear looks fairly consistent with mine. I get few days on any rear DH tire before it looks like a slick. After 5-10 days it's time for the trash bin and that's considering I'm usually happy enough to ride around on a knob-less rear for a few days. Not defending Schwalbe at all because I wish they would last longer for the price. I've noticed I get more time before tearing on the Vertstar compound, I think it's because the softer compound gives a bit more before it tears, but I tend to like the speed of the Trailstar so I suck it up.

  3. #3
    Perpetual Hack
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    I have a BigBetty DH Vertstar on the rear of the Podium and about 35-40% tread left, and more than half of the side knobs are torn at the base. Some just a bit and some 1/2 way through. I'm just going to ride it into the ground.
    (2.5MM VS or BB VS on front - conditions depending, so they are in much better shape)

    Replacement - have been thinking the SG series - maybe check out the new magic mary....

    I have some hansdampf in TS on my trail wheels. I have cut them to open them up and the hook up much better, but the side knobs are just to small to hang on...

    michael
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  4. #4
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    id try something else. your trails are simply too nasty for the tyre. the compound wasn't designed for that type of ground I suspect.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    I have a BigBetty DH Vertstar on the rear of the Podium and about 35-40% tread left, and more than half of the side knobs are torn at the base. Some just a bit and some 1/2 way through. I'm just going to ride it into the ground.
    (2.5MM VS or BB VS on front - conditions depending, so they are in much better shape)

    Replacement - have been thinking the SG series - maybe check out the new magic mary....

    I have some hansdampf in TS on my trail wheels. I have cut them to open them up and the hook up much better, but the side knobs are just to small to hang on...

    michael

    My Muddy Mary DH Vertstars didn't last long either, there's a bit of life left, but they have barely any riding on them. Maybe 10 days?

    If I went with Schwalbe DH rubber again, I would only do the Vertstar in the front, and Trailstar in rear. Hell I might just do TS on both.
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  6. #6
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    I have been testing Schwalbe tires for about a year, and have been in close contact with their OEM rep all along, so I've learned A LOT about these tires. Few thoughts:

    - It's very nice to see a company with accurate tread widths. Every Schwalbe 2.35 = Maxxis 2.5

    - If you are looking for durability, PaceStar is what you want

    - Super Gravity has nothing to do with tread compound, or compound durability. SG is the casing designation. It's much thicker than SnakeSkin, amounting to a 1000g tire which provides more protection, yet still lighter than a full blown DH tire(due to folding bead)

    Now the treads I've ridden:

    - Big Betty 2.35 - BIG tire, even at 2.35, massive volume, dual center knobs make this tire feel fast in straight lines yet strangely uneasy during initial transition into a turn

    - Racing Ralph 2.25 - Pinner tire, low volume, much more prone to pinch flats and rim damage since the tire doesn't hold much air. However, very fast tread and holds surprisingly well on the shoulder lugs.

    - Rocket Ron 2.35 - This is the only tire residing (in width) between the Racing Ralph 2.25 and the larger 2.35's in the lineup(Hans, Nic, Mary). I rode this tire on my Endo for at least 5 months, PaceStar compound, with good results. Performs well in my home turf of loose over hardpack, since it doesn't have super tall knobs, but I would not consider this a contender for a great 'all-around' tire for varying conditions.

    - Nobby Nic 2.35 - Haven't had any time on this tire yet. GASP.

    - Hans Dampf 2.35 - I had this tire on my Chilcotin for at least 6 months, the same set, PaceStar. The Hans feels very predictable leaning over into a turn with copious transition knobs, but the shoulder lugs aren't well supported and fold over when you really dig down to bury the bike in a corner.

    - Magic Mary 2.35 SG - I've ridden these tires about a dozen times on my Chilcotin. The added rotational weight of the SG casing is immediately noticeable, but let's talk tread characteristics. This tread has the occasional center knob, but most are offset and run side by side from center. This tire does NOT have transition knobs, and it is immediately noticeable, which is to say this tire has a considerable amount of drift before the shoulder lugs hook up and keep you on course. Because of this, I would not recommend this tire to intermediate riders, since it can be downright unnerving waiting for the shoulder lugs to dig in an re-assure you that bike will stay upright. However, once you get the tire(and bike) to the sweet spot in a corner, this tire is the best supported in the entire lineup. This is because the shoulder lugs actually have gussets underneath them(running down the sidewall) that prevent the lugs from folding over. Good stuff.

    *** So pick your poison. I think it's pretty obvious that the best 'virtual' tire in this lineup would be a Hans Dampf that had the shoulder gussets from the Magic Mary. My Schwalbe rep said this is not outside the realm of possibility for 2015. What should we call it? The 'Hans Mary' or the 'Magic Dampf'?
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  7. #7
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    rdhfreethought...you could always try a 2.4 ardent on the back, they are really tough tyres, fast rolling, high volume, I love them out back. I wouldn't run them out front in a month of sundays though, got a 2.4 big betty on the front and love it, its been very durable so far, its a 2.4, freeride, trailstar, triple compound, snakeskin, folding. its very good. in 2.4 the ardent and big betty are the same volume as each other.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    Replacement - have been thinking the SG series - maybe check out the new magic mary....

    I have some hansdampf in TS on my trail wheels. I have cut them to open them up and the hook up much better, but the side knobs are just to small to hang on...

    michael
    Did the same, cut the HD SG because it would wash. Tried to make it like Muddy Mary (still my fav schwalb, hope they don't get rid of it). Problem then became pinch flats because the top rubber is very thin even though the SG sidewalls are beefy. .
    ©

  9. #9
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    my conti barons black chilli seem to be holding up to whistler abuse ok,,, they have done 4 weeks now and still not showing any signs of wear,,, usually by now the rear highroller would be well on its way to being worn out,,,

  10. #10
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    There's some misinformation in this thread. The single page I've posted below from the Schwalbe website clearly lays out the different compounds in an easy to understand way. The OP, and anyone else shredding Schwalbes in a few rides are simply riding the wrong series. I bought a set of Trail Star Dampfs and destroyed them in a few rides and was pissed, just as some of you are. Emailed Schwalbe a hateful email and they politely informed me that I should be riding Pacestar series tires on my rocky, rooty Midwest trails. I've been happy ever since Buy the right tires, people!

    SCHWALBE Triple Star Compound | Schwalbe North America

  11. #11
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    DFYFZX is on to something. Pacestar in the rear and Trailstar in front is money. Other solid rear tire options for chunk are Trail King Apex/Chili and Specialized Butcher SX.

  12. #12
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    I always really liked the Big Betty and Muddy Mary, and the Dampfs were fine as well until they fell apart on me. Only tried them in the rear though, not as a front.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFYFZX View Post
    There's some misinformation in this thread. ... Buy the right tires, people!

    SCHWALBE Triple Star Compound | Schwalbe North America
    I take exception to this (Duh, I'm the OP!). First off, I live in the PNW. And the race was in muddy conditions. (I even bolded it in the original post). 2 days of Whistler, most of which was perfect conditions, and almost all of it on the jump lines: Dirt Merchant, A-line (how good is the new A-line, so sweet), both of which were hero dirt conditions. Freight train has a few rocks on it, but again, its a jump line trail.

    You claim that I bought the wrong tire compound. Would you really run a Pacestar in wet, rooty PNW conditions, or on a muddy race course?

    Besides, Dusty himself states that the PACESTAR version he has run on his Chilcotin has edge knobs that fold over. Pushing a Podium at race pace (and weighing over 200 like Dusty), the knobs just lack the strength for me. The key phrase there is "for me."

    To put things in perspective, the DHF supertacky (which is still on the front of my bike), had better durability in the rear. (It and a High Roller 'lasted' all season last year)

    Now, I don't expect race tires to last terribly long. But I did expect the middle of the range durometer to last longer. I don't think I will put a hard compound on my Podium any time soon. But I appreciate the feedback regarding the Conti tires, although I will probably go back to DHF's until the Magic Mary's come out.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought View Post
    Besides, Dusty himself states that the PACESTAR version he has run on his Chilcotin has edge knobs that fold over. Pushing a Podium at race pace (and weighing over 200 like Dusty), the knobs just lack the strength for me. The key phrase there is "for me."
    As long as we agree that I wasn't correlating lug support with durability, even though they can be paired together. When I see early wear(like on your tire), I think it comes from compound choice, as opposed to lug support and overall tread design. Pile that on top of folding lugs and you'll have yourself a bald tire in no time.
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  15. #15
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    Thanks for the clarification.

    I may actually be in the smaller camp here. Both Err and Dusty (both of whose opinion I trust more than my own on bike related matters) seem to agree to live with the folding lug issues. For me, once those side knobs start folding and tearing in half or completely off, I loose all confidence in the corners. The terms squirmy and sketchy come to mind.

    Oh well, I didn't mean to flame on the tire or anyone in this thread. I just thought would be helpful for potential buyers so that they know what to expect. Maybe the ticket is Pacestar in the rear and Vertstar up front? But I think I'll have let someone else test that out. Next trial tire for me is the Der Kaiser Projekt 2.4

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    Pacestar in the rear and Trailstar in front is money.
    That's what the Schwalbe Fat Albert sets come with. Also, the front and rear tires have a slightly different profile.
    I have tested the Fat Albert set for 3 days and they are not bad. I can see signs of wear on the rear tire, but no knob is missing so far

  17. #17
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    Hans Dampf SG not durable enough for me-photo.jpg

    Schwalbe just warrantied this tire for me. It is a Hans Damph Super G Trailstar. I bought the tire 07/31 and mounted it probably a week after that. Within the first week I punctured the casing through the top, luckily the fresh Stan's sealed it. From there the tire just eroded. To be fair I put a lot of miles on the tire in the 30 days it was mounted. Plenty of mountain riding, with loamy dirt and roots, but also a lot of chunked out rocks. Raced the Durango BME with the tire too.

    I am happy that they are replacing the tire, but I am not sure what I will do with the replacement. I recently bought a set of Conti Mountain King UST. 2.4 for the front and 2.2 for the rear. I am truly amazed with these tires. So much traction, but they don't feel cumbersome at all. Rode the tires this weekend on the Whole Enchilada and Mag 7 and they still look new! In the past those trails have thrashed my Schwalbes. I have been riding Schwalbes for a while now, and thought I found my match with the Big Bettys. But the Mountain Kings so far are way better.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Schwalbe just warrantied this tire for me. It is a Hans Damph Super G Trailstar. I bought the tire 07/31 and mounted it probably a week after that. Within the first week I punctured the casing through the top, luckily the fresh Stan's sealed it. From there the tire just eroded. To be fair I put a lot of miles on the tire in the 30 days it was mounted. Plenty of mountain riding, with loamy dirt and roots, but also a lot of chunked out rocks. Raced the Durango BME with the tire too.

    I am happy that they are replacing the tire, but I am not sure what I will do with the replacement. I recently bought a set of Conti Mountain King UST. 2.4 for the front and 2.2 for the rear. I am truly amazed with these tires. So much traction, but they don't feel cumbersome at all. Rode the tires this weekend on the Whole Enchilada and Mag 7 and they still look new! In the past those trails have thrashed my Schwalbes. I have been riding Schwalbes for a while now, and thought I found my match with the Big Bettys. But the Mountain Kings so far are way better.
    I know we've traded emails on this, but thought I'd chime in here too.
    1. 2.4 TK UST is a great tire - only liked it on the rear. @1200g? iirc, it is a beast of a tire but it simply grips in all conditions, wears very little, and is HUGE.
    2. 2.2 TK UST seems like it wouldn't like me on top of it, but I'll know in a few more days.
    3. Schwalbe warranteed my HD (not SG) 2.4 Evo for shedding knobs. I've had 3 of this tire and this last one lost 3 knobs in a couple of months. The new compounds definitely don't last as long as the old ones but they grip very well.
    4. Still running Big Betty or Butcher SX front....that isn't going to change.

    So I've got a HD SG that I'll probably try out back if that Conty 2.2 is too small for me.

  19. #19
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    Really like the BB as a rear tire but the Schwalbe pattern baldness is pretty bad on that tire. Maybe lasted about 3 months.

    Side by side the Conti 2.2 looks similar in size to a Minion 2.5.
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  20. #20
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    Who did you guys contact for Schwalbe warranty? I bought mine online.
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  21. #21
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    I filled out the online warranty form on their website, and then heard back from them a day or so later.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought View Post

    To put things in perspective, the DHF supertacky (which is still on the front of my bike), had better durability in the rear. (It and a High Roller 'lasted' all season last year)
    So why do so many people now think they have to run Schwalbes? I know the HDs are the "it" tire right now, as far as trends go, but there are many less expensive, longer lasting and (gasp) better performing options. The OP answered his own dilemma above. I know that Maxxis measurements are way off, but it's hard to beat their performance - and they are downright economical compared to the trendy disposable meats with the $90 price tag.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzalot View Post
    So why do so many people now think they have to run Schwalbes? I know the HDs are the "it" tire right now, as far as trends go, but there are many less expensive, longer lasting and (gasp) better performing options. The OP answered his own dilemma above. I know that Maxxis measurements are way off, but it's hard to beat their performance - and they are downright economical compared to the trendy disposable meats with the $90 price tag.
    Aaaaand, they are now finally making the Minion in a TRUE 2.3 with tubeless-ready casing and bead at 840g. This could be one to watch. This tire is also available in 27.5
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    I recently bought a set of Conti Mountain King UST.I am truly amazed with these tires. So much traction, but they don't feel cumbersome at all.


    +1 - I'm on my second set of TK's in 2.4" on the Nomad and when these wear out I'll be on set #3. Great tires.

    I've used them in Moab, Sedona and a ton at home in Coastal BC wet and dry. They work well in all conditions - although I have not encountered any sticky mud yet.

    The 26 x 2.4" TK's are massive. See photo above of my 2.4"'s next to a stock wheel off a SC Bronson running Maxis High Roller II's in 27.5 x 2.3"

    When I get a 650B bike I'll try some 2.2" TKs to start and see what I think.
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    Vik
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  25. #25
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    New Maxxis rubber, HRII DHRII sizing more in line with others.

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