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  1. #1
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    Few random 2012 Endo questions...

    So it looks like there’s a good chance I will be getting an Endo to compliment my Chili, so I’d welcome input on a few things in case things work out. I was going to ask about tires, but Woodyak started a thread on that already.

    Carbon bars – Don’t really want to run my heavier Chromag OSX’s, but need something at least 750mm or so wide. I run 780mmOSX’s on the Chili with a 50mm stem (which feels great,) and I’d run a 65 or 70mm stem on the Endo, so slightly narrower bars would keep my upper body position the same. I was looking at the Easton Carbon Havocs. Seems to be the only wider option beside AM Enve’s (740mm I think) or the new Racefax SIXc at 785mm, which I’d need to cut down. Anyone had any bad experiences with carbon bars, or other issues?

    Chainguide – I’d run 2x10 on the Endo, with a Shimano XT clutch derailleur (already have it.) I’m thinking a chainguide really isn’t necessary with the front derailleur and clutch? I would probably want a bash though, so the mrp bash only is only about 30 grams or so lighter than their 2x guide/bash system, so maybe it’s a moot point, and just run the 2x? I’d hate to bend a chainring, especially an XTR one.

    Clipless pedals – haven’t run them in years, but would want to for the type of riding I’d build the Endo up for. Any suggestions here? Shimano? The new offerings look nice, but I’ve heard of trouble with the XTR trail pedal, not sure if the XT trail version has the same issues. Long ago before I switched to flats I rode Time Atac Z’s, which were great, but they are pretty heavy, so finding something with a platform of some sort but lighter would be ideal.

    Really wanting to go full XTR, but not really sure if it's worth the cost over XT.

    Thanks for any input and advice.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  2. #2
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    All of the carbon bars listed kick ass and I doubt you'll have problems with any of them. I just put a set of RF SixC 785's on my dad's Chili, but haven't riden them yet.

    The new clutch derailleurs are great, but they don't replace a chain guide. If you think you might want the guide, get the 2X set up. If it's not needed, ditch the roller later on.

    I ride Time MX6 pedals on my Chili, small platform, adjustable cleat release, 437g/pair.

    Xpensive To Replace.

  3. #3
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    Can't help with drivetrain but tiSSer claims to be an avid 2x'er and is talking about single ring on the Endo. Any reason not to go 1x? Sounds like the perfect bike for it.

    I do have the Sixc bars. They are awesome and I wouldn't hesitate buying again. But for your purposes maybe the Race Face Next bars?

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    As for clips... the new Podiums look sick!

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  4. #4
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    I have the RF Next bars and like them. Plenty wide for me. ..kind of wish they had a touch more backsweep, but that may be because of the thin grips I have on them just now.

    fwiw, when picking out bars I had solicited my LBS on whether to go Havoc or SiXC and he suggested the RF Next based on info he'd gleaned from the RF rep on how strong they were.

    That said, my LBS guy knows also that I'm moving from XC/trail up toward AM vs DH or FR moving down toward AM so that may be a factor in the advice given me.

  5. #5
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    740mm bars 60mm stem.

    Buy the cheapest bars on the list you suggested, they are all great. This is not the most cost friendly way to save weight though....think light wheels tyres cassettte etc...work out $$ per grams saving, compare components / costs and youll see the cheapest way to build a light bike.

    I disagree with B Gillespie (sorry dude), i have a X9 clutched mech and there is max 2cm of chain bounce on big hits thus completely eliminating the need for a chain guide. If you have a clutched mech and still need a chain guide you most probably have your chain the wrong length.

    Shimano DX clipless are good, weigh very little and cost alot less than those mentioned so far.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    I disagree with B Gillespie (sorry dude), i have a X9 clutched mech and there is max 2cm of chain bounce on big hits thus completely eliminating the need for a chain guide. If you have a clutched mech and still need a chain guide you most probably have your chain the wrong length.
    With a front d., no chain guide is possible. You'll drop a chain here and there on chunk but the front d. will most likely catch and somewhat re-route it. Doesn't work on a 1x setup though.

    For my bike, I'd go with a 2x, but that's just how I ride.

  7. #7
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    Sounds like we have similar taste in builds. I am running the Havoc Carbons on my Endo. Zero complaints. They were originally on my Chili and I transferred them to the Endo. Stiff, light, nice feel.

    No need for a chain guide with the rear clutch for me. I am running the XTR rear plus and 26/38 up front. I have had no need for a bash ring yet. For the chunky, rocky trails I have the Chili. There are very few areas on my local trails where I need a bash.

    I have the XT trail pedals. I've been riding them for about a year with zero issues. I really like them and I have always had good luck with Shimano pedals. I don't think there is enough of a difference to pay more for the XTR pedals.

    The XTR vs. Xt debate is a tough one. If you can get a great deal on the XTR I think it is worth it. Its very well made, light, and should last a good long time. For the price of XT you can't go wrong. Maybe mix and match; XT cranks, XT FD, XTR rear, XTR brakes, XTR shifters.

    Just got back from a ride on the Chili. I've been riding my Endo most of the time this winter. It was fun to not worry about lines and pretty much plow through anything on the trail. It reconfirmed that these bikes are very different bikes. I'll be going back to the Endo on Thursday. Its pretty much perfect for all my local trails.

    Looking forward to seeing your build, Ryan.

    TG

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    With a front d., no chain guide is possible. You'll drop a chain here and there on chunk but the front d. will most likely catch and somewhat re-route it. Doesn't work on a 1x setup though.

    For my bike, I'd go with a 2x, but that's just how I ride.
    I ride 2x10 too and meant for this type of setup as the OP said hed go 2x10. If i was to go 1x10 or 1x11 then, id get something to keep the chain in check with the front ring too.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
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  9. #9
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    The Enve DH bars are a little wider and can be cut down providing a bit more versatility. they are stiff and durable. I think I have 2 years on mine and at 225 I haven't done an damage....even with crashes.

    Xt/xtr. I still have all of my original m950 xtr on my old bike and from that experience the combo I use now (9 speed) represents in my opinion, the best option.

    XTR: f/r deraillers, shifters, chain
    XT: Crank, cluster, brakes

    I think the xtr cluster and cranks are the weakest value parts they offer. Amazing? Yes. But when you go to buy a new ring or cassette, you will feel the pain. The xt rings and cluster are bullet proof with xtr chain.

  10. #10
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    The XT pedals are great. Much improved shoe contact over previous designs makes it feel like a larger surface area to push on in corners. It should be noted that the shoe contact area when clipped in is the same between the trail and xc version of the pedals (the wings on the trail fade away and do not support the shoe) so for the same performance I would opt for the lighter of the two.

  11. #11
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    I started with the sixc 725mm bars and moved up to some 760mm chromag osx and then up to the Enve DH at 800. I took a couple rides and cut them to 780, same as my chilly and i run a 50mm stem on the chilly and 70 on the Endo. I believe i was thinking like you that it would be alright to have slightly shorter bars on my "xc" bike but it feels so much better with the same size as the chilly.
    for drivetrain, I run a 1x10 with a 34 tooth ring and mrp g2 guide. with the Endo being lighter and more pedal platform then the chilly this combo works great even for climbing. the only time i wish i had a bigger front is on pavement.
    I run crank brothers pedals, not for everyone but i have gotten so many broken ones replaced for free i don't mind them breaking. they even replaced a two year old pair of the candy 11's after i snapped a ti axle.

  12. #12
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    I've gone back and forth over 2x10 or 1x10. The Chili is set up 1x10 and I can get around fine on my local stuff with that, I just maybe have to stand and crank harder at some points where I could sit and spin more with a 2x10. Plus if I do longer rides, the extra gears might come in handy. But on the other hand, 1x10 might be ok on a bike that's 5 pounds lighter than my Chili...

    Some parts that will carryover from my Evil hardtail are a King/Flow wheelset, Lev 125 seatpost, XT midcage clutch rear derailleur and XTR rear shifter. The hardtail has a XT cassette, and the Chili an XTR, so I'd probably swap those around for the weight. The Endo would also get the set of XTR Trail brakes that have been sitting on my workbench brand new in their boxes since my Saint brake fiasco.

    The XTR cranks are only about 70g lighter than the XT's (crank arms only) after you factor in the fancy XTR chainring bolts that come with the 2x10 crankset. So not really sure that's worth over twice the price. But they sure do look nice.

    Thanks for all the comments so far, sound like I can't go wrong with any of those carbon bars.
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  13. #13
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    what's happening to that evil frame? medium?
    And don't forget about the Joystick bars as well. Looking pretty good and wide now.

  14. #14
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    I'd sell it to help fund the Endo. It's a large though.

    I'm just too old for a hardtail. I'm not 16 and living off Mountain Dew anymore. Haha.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  15. #15
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    Bars:
    Carbon SixC's are solid and now come in the longer length you need. I'm on my 2nd season on the Chilli with the shorter 725 bars and have been hitting some pretty big lines. No problems on these bars at all. I'm a hobbit so 725's are plenty wide for me. I'm getting the Next SL 725's to keep the weight down on my Endo.

    Chainguide:
    Go 1x10. I switched a few years ago and I will NEVER go back. On a fast light bike like the Endo you won't need a granny, plus you drop close to a pound and simplify your cabling for the dropper post that you'd be sure to get. I'm going to have mine setup with a 36 upfront and 36 cassette. You can start with a 32 upfront until you cut your teeth . As far as the guide goes I'm getting one of these Mountain Racing Products home of MRP, White Brothers, Kreitler, Tamer, and Power Grips | AMG coupled with an XTR clutch Der.

    Clipless:
    I plan on riding mine with flats the majority of the time and then going to clips for race day. I've always been a Time guy so I stick with what I know. I picked up an older classic Time Atac pedal that has the same spring setup and durability as the Z's, but is much lighter. Some of the newer ones I tried years ago had a newer design that did not hold up to repeated hits. My buds run the new XTR platformy clipless and like those.

    XT/XTR:
    If you like spending money by all means go full XTR. If not pick and choose. XTR shifter isn't much more and is the brains behind the shifting. The Der. on the other hand you can easily get by with XT or even Zee. I have the short cage Zee w/clutch on my Chilly and it's lasted longer than my XTR and Saint Der's. With cranks if you're going to spend the coin for XTR spend a little more and get the SixC's or NextSL's. If you're thinking XT think SLX as it's cheaper, stronger and just a hare heavier. Cassette, Chain, BB I'd stick with XT level. Not much weight savings and big bucks.

  16. #16
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Bars:
    Carbon SixC's are solid and now come in the longer length you need. I'm on my 2nd season on the Chilli with the shorter 725 bars and have been hitting some pretty big lines. No problems on these bars at all. I'm a hobbit so 725's are plenty wide for me. I'm getting the Next SL 725's to keep the weight down on my Endo.

    Chainguide:
    Go 1x10. I switched a few years ago and I will NEVER go back. On a fast light bike like the Endo you won't need a granny, plus you drop close to a pound and simplify your cabling for the dropper post that you'd be sure to get. I'm going to have mine setup with a 36 upfront and 36 cassette. You can start with a 32 upfront until you cut your teeth . As far as the guide goes I'm getting one of these Mountain Racing Products home of MRP, White Brothers, Kreitler, Tamer, and Power Grips | AMG coupled with an XTR clutch Der.

    Clipless:
    I plan on riding mine with flats the majority of the time and then going to clips for race day. I've always been a Time guy so I stick with what I know. I picked up an older classic Time Atac pedal that has the same spring setup and durability as the Z's, but is much lighter. Some of the newer ones I tried years ago had a newer design that did not hold up to repeated hits. My buds run the new XTR platformy clipless and like those.

    XT/XTR:
    If you like spending money by all means go full XTR. If not pick and choose. XTR shifter isn't much more and is the brains behind the shifting. The Der. on the other hand you can easily get by with XT or even Zee. I have the short cage Zee w/clutch on my Chilly and it's lasted longer than my XTR and Saint Der's. With cranks if you're going to spend the coin for XTR spend a little more and get the SixC's or NextSL's. If you're thinking XT think SLX as it's cheaper, stronger and just a hare heavier. Cassette, Chain, BB I'd stick with XT level. Not much weight savings and big bucks.
    Sounds like you will have a nice build there Bill. And you are right, when building from scratch I'll skimp where I can. I don't see the difference between XT vs XTR shifters though. Weights are similar and how much different could they be? For an Endo build I would get the XX1 cranks, cheaper than the Race Face and direct mount compatible.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    For an Endo build I would get the XX1 cranks, cheaper than the Race Face and direct mount compatible.
    Do you know if the XX1 crank can take a regular chainring or are you stuck with the narrow profile chainring for 11 speed chains? I was under the impression that you could not mix and match XX1 with other components but I would very much like to be wrong, given the price differential.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    Do you know if the XX1 crank can take a regular chainring or are you stuck with the narrow profile chainring for 11 speed chains? I was under the impression that you could not mix and match XX1 with other components but I would very much like to be wrong, given the price differential.
    From what I have read/observed you can run a 10 speed drivetrain off the stock rings with no problems. I have a buddy running this on his HD with a clutch derailleur and no guide at all and has yet to drop his chain.

    But I do believe that the BCD of the chainrings is very specific and another brands chainrings would not mount up. That is unless you bought something like the MRP's Bling Ring or the direct mount ring from North Shore Billet.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    Do you know if the XX1 crank can take a regular chainring or are you stuck with the narrow profile chainring for 11 speed chains? I was under the impression that you could not mix and match XX1 with other components but I would very much like to be wrong, given the price differential.
    Just found this article.

    Wolf Tooth Components SRAM Direct Mount, XTR M985 Rings Now Shipping, Lower Prices, More
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  21. #21
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    I admit, I'd rather do 1x10 just for pure simplicity. And honestly I think it'd be more than enough for me.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I admit, I'd rather do 1x10 just for pure simplicity. And honestly I think it'd be more than enough for me.
    All the hire bikes in the local trail centres around our way have nearly every bike set up as a 1x10. Apparently it works very well.

    Not sure what cassette / front ring they are using, will need to have a closer look at them / chat to the mechanics.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Sounds like you will have a nice build there Bill. And you are right, when building from scratch I'll skimp where I can. I don't see the difference between XT vs XTR shifters though. Weights are similar and how much different could they be? For an Endo build I would get the XX1 cranks, cheaper than the Race Face and direct mount compatible.
    Yeah, not trusting the XX1 stuff yet. I didn't like the idea of having to deal with Direct Mount compatible crap. I've been a big fan of the Surly SS rings and they don't have any XX1 compatible going on.

  24. #24
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    Thanks, that's useful info!

    I am still confused, does the XX1 crankset take both direct mount rings (like the Bling Ring) as well as BCD 76 chainrings? I was under the impression that the direct mount rings only fit X0 and X9 GXP cranks.

  25. #25
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    The XX1 spider is a direct mount. So you can use the stock spider or get a direct mount ring.

    some good info/pics here:
    xx1 and x0 spider?
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