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  1. #1
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Endorphin thoughts and questions

    I have two rides on familiar trails on the new Endorphin. It was a tough start to our relationship yesterday as I was extremely broken from a xfit workout the day before, the ground was super soft, my brakes were dragging AND I was grumpy...because i had been in the car driving north up to Bellingham to shred some rad trails on a new bike with none other than EBxtreme and had been turned around by a work call. Never the less, I had sorted my work sh1t out and hustled to get my first ride in as dark encroached.

    Knolly Endorphin

    quick rewind:- the Endo is set up to be my primary Enduro Race bike. I started racing Super D in 2011 and then this switched to Enduro for 2012. While they claim Enduro is mostly downhill...it is really glorifed XC. In Europe they are wearing FF helmets for Enduro...here we still wear XC lids. Enough said. Saying that, i want a bike that accelerates, pedals well on short steeps and flat sections of trail and is confidence inspiring on gnarly sections of trail (e.g. when i close my eyes and hope for the best). I think one of the most important factors i have noticed in my two years of racing is the ability to be need to able to put the power to the pedals on rough (rooty / rocky) trail (generally flat / rolling terrain).

    In the last two years i have raced on the following bikes in this order:- Diamond Back Mission, SC Blur LTc, Trek Remedy Carbon. Of those the Blur LTc was the standout bike, unfortunately I was between sizes and the L was too big or else i might well still be riding it. My bikes are not set up super light...that sh1t wouldnt last and would be costly. The build is mostly XT with carbon bars and fast rolling tires. Tubeless in the rear. I change front tires too often to be able to do tubeless and have never had a front pinchflat. I have two rear wheels both set up tubeless with two different tires for racing.

    Its always funny how you think you have everything dialed in pretty sweet by the top of the climb (apart from the brake drag)...then you drop into the trail and 10 seconds later youre stopping to add some rebound damping and rotate the brake levers. The cool thing is the cockpit felt totally familiar from the minute i hopped on the bike. I snuggled right in, just like hopping on my chilly. Ride 1 was okay. I felt like the bike was stable and composed and i was fast...but leaving my braking late and over braking. I didnt feel like I found my center of balance. The bike felt fast and stiff and in one or two corners where i compressed and snapped out of..i surprised myself with how responsive the bike was. Maybe that was why i was overbraking.

    Ride 1

    Fast Forward to today. I changed out rotors and centered my brakes, spent a bit more time measuring my sag and surprised myself that I have the CTD shock at 145psi (for about 35 - 40% sag) and RS Revelation is 85 (for about 25% sag). These are significantly different numbers to the RP23 (165) and Fox Float 32 (65). I would like to hear what pressure others are running.

    Today was just a short 1hr tester but was great. I felt so much better on the climb. I enjoyed how when the CTD is locked out...it actually compressed when i hit bigger technical roots...its the best of both worlds. You get the pedaling efficiency but also the bump compliance. Having ridden a HT for the last couple rides on these trails I noticed the pedaling efficiency of this bike but also appreciated my wheel not stopping on the bigger roots and not getting jacked up the ass. When i threw down some power...i immediately felt the results...the bike surged. I wish i could have kept up my efforts. On the flat / downhill sections i rode in trail mode (2) and was pretty stoked. The bike is definitely responsive and am pretty sure i rode the trails as fast as i ever have.

    I noticed a new found confidence or maybe sense of adventure as i entered corners higher and later and deliberately increased my arc despite knowing of trees and roots at the apex. The bike was super easy to compress and pop out of corners avoiding these dangers. I would ride those corners differently on the Chilly with its deeper and more forgiving suspension. I can definitely feel this suspension is firmer and more responsive which is exactly what i want from a trail bike.

    I have been riding my new pumptrack at home a lot lately and this is starting to influence my trail riding...so I was concentrating on not pedaling but pumping and unweighting over features to generate speed. The bike defintely responded to my efforts and was super nimble and responsive. When I try do this on the Chilly its a totally different experience...but its understandable. The chilly is set up with a 36 fork, Avy shock, 2.5 Minion EXO front tire and 2.35 Specialized Butcher SX on the back. All of this combined adds up to a trail damping effect. It is just so awesome to not feel all that damping ...but to have more interaction with the trail..but at the same time to be able to soak up trail features when you need to. Now that i have said that..i know my two bikes are different. On my local FR trails...i need every bit of trail damping to deal with the non stop rocks and big hits...thats exactly why the Chilly is so awesome up there. I understand that for the pedalling efficiency and trail responsiveness I am going to compromise in other areas.

    The adventure continues. Another ride with a mate who is on his new carbon Stumpy and who will definitely push me hard.

    Any input from other folks riding the CTD and the revelation would be appreciated (T'isser)
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  2. #2
    mtbr member
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    Lovely bike and nice write up!

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the great write up. I hear you loud and clear about the responsiveness. I am falling deeply in love with my Endo after about 10-12 rides. The side to side responsiveness leaves me grinning ear to ear. I keep going faster and faster into turns and haven't really found the limit. Same tires, wheels and everything else as my former bike. I am climbing better now too. As for the CTD, I struggled at first - too firm, too soft - so I brought it to The BikeCo for a little TLC. They won't tell me what they did, but they made it much better. I think they added or changed a spacer to have it ramp up more, thus allowing me to use lower pressure. It's now about as good as Fox air suspension gets. The Marz 55 on the front is a great fork on the Endo.

    Glad you are getting to know and love your Endo, and thanks again for the great report.

  4. #4
    Yebo Numzaan
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    A solid thrashing

    I went out for my third ride in three days on the Endo. Trail conditions simply do not get better than this in the PNW if you ask me. Slippery and soft. Some lines were virtually impossible to ride. I would go high right and my buddy would try a different line and both of us might end up at 90 degrees to the trail with a foot out. I love that. We did 20 miles with 5500 feet of climbing. I cant say the Endo felt like it pedalled well...because the road and trail were super soft, but I believe it felt as good as any bike could possibly have felt. On the climbs I played around with the CTD in climb and trail mode and enjoyed the subtle differences. At times i preferred the climb mode, but would switch to trail for a change.

    I weigh about 185 in my riding gear and increased my shock pressure to 150 (from 145), i would estimate my sag at around 25-30%. The RS Rev fork is unchanged at 85.

    The bike felt absolutely awesome on the trail...superb. I couldnt be happier. These were legit trails that i have only ever ridden on the Chilly...and the Endo was awesome. I would say even more fun. I have no trouble saying that the Endo is like a 'mini chilly'. The cockpit and riding position all feel the same and I had no problem riding aggresive trails on this bike. When i pick my weapon for the days ride...i will make my choice based on the trails and whether i intend hitting any bigger features. I have no doubt the Endo will feel awesome in the air and I look forward to hitting some lips. If there are big jumps with harsh landings or drops to flat...i guess i would choose the Chilly or be comfortable riding around them. i have clipless pedals on the Endo and i dont really hit the big stuff clipped in anyway...so that helps with my decision.

    Never dropped a chain once...with the roller removed from my chain guide. XT derailuer with clutch FTW.

    Note how different my bike looks to T'isser's bike after a 20 mile ride. You can see where I have removed the roller on the guide..and where the clunking might be coming from.

    Untitled

    Questions -

    There is a clunking sound coming from the bottom of bike somewhere. It might be because i am running my E13 guide without the roller and it could be the chain hitting the bashguard where the roller was. I wrapped some inner tube around that little piece...but it didnt help. I will either cut that off the bash of try a different guide. Cant imagine what else it might be.

    The CTD shock does NOT push the rubber ring off the shaft - like the RP23 would. I am assuming this is because of the spacer / bumper inserted internally. That is interesting because Noel would always say that the rubber ring SHOULD be pushed off the shaft...that way you know you are using full travel. Now however...it is at least 3 or 4mm from the bottom of the shaft. Interesting.
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  5. #5
    mtbr member
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    I am running a MRP guide with a Zee derailleur. A while back the trail removed my lower roller for me. I have been hitting some rough terrain lately and have no clunking, thuding or chain slap. I do run my chain pretty short though, could your chain maybe be too long?

    BTW looks like the Endo got a proper thrashing
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  6. #6
    ride your bike
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    Nice writeup Mutton. How'd your buddy like his carbon stumpy?
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

  7. #7
    Yebo Numzaan
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    He's a bike whore...he arrived with the new Rune 650b and was liking that
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  8. #8
    ride your bike
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    Ha! Nice.
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

  9. #9
    Yebo Numzaan
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    clunking

    this might be the engagement on the HOPE pro2 rear hub.
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  10. #10
    Just roll it......
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    Nice write up, Mutton. No doubt, you'll be pushing that bike's limits.

    I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the bike from our crew's Saturday ride. No doubt, you'd shred on that thing, but it's got some steeps that would likely challenge the revelation/endo combo.

    Next time up amigo!

    EB

  11. #11
    Just roll it......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    this might be the engagement on the HOPE pro2 rear hub.
    Yep, could be. Might need to clean and re-grease the pawls.....mine does that when it's in need of some love.

  12. #12
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    I have the same clunking issue on my Chili... The cover plate on my MRP G2 broke off, so the chain drops off the roller easily.

    Does not sound like the chain, but makes sense, as it gets worse in the smaller cogs.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
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    Thanks for the ride impressions. Sounds like you're loving the Endo. Should be a great enduro mount. Prolly what I need for enduro but only do one or two races a year so the chili will have to suffice......for now. I'm thinking 650b Endorphin or Burner, or Carbine 275 built in the 27lb range would be great enduro mounts as well.

    Keep us posted on the ride impressions.

  14. #14
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post

    Note how different my bike looks to T'isser's bike after a 20 mile ride.
    What are you trying to say?
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  15. #15
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    What are you trying to say?
    I have a wet muddy ass and you're a desert lizzard
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  16. #16
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    I have a wet muddy ass and you're a desert lizzard
    I rode in the rain last week....seriously.

    I agree with much of your review. I have been spending LOTS of time on the Endo. The best way to describe this bike is FUN!. We did a nice long ride Sunday on the Arizona trail, and the Endo was perfect. I was the only guy on a 26er and had no issues hanging with the 29er guys on the climbs, and was hoot'in and hollerin' on the downs. I really like this bike as it rails, is so easy to throw around, and you can just bury it in corners and it jumps out of them. It is a very different feel from the Chili.

    Dirtbag and I hit Holbert Saturday, and the Chili just felt so good. Like being on the Endo, but with much more beef. I find myself trying to ride the Chili more like the Endo, and damn it's fun!
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  17. #17
    ride your bike
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebxtreme View Post
    ...but it's got some steeps that would likely challenge the revelation/endo combo.

    Next time up amigo!

    EB
    Good point raised! Mutton how does the Rev feel when you're pushing the bike hard...as compared to, say, a 36?
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

  18. #18
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Oh perfect..you rode in the rain....so you will be totally ready for some PNW when you get here. Sweet.

    Ja dude, so far the Endorphin is pretty rad. How you describe cornering is exactly what i would say. I find myself leaving cornering later and snapping out of it quicker...

    I have been thinking a lot about it the last couple day or two. My pump track is super tight with trees on the exits of the main fast corner. I initially built the line to steer clear of the trees (the line was 12 - 18inches away from the tree) and i rode it like that for 3 - 4 weeks until it packed in and got a lot faster. Then i found i was coming out of the corners so much faster, the natural line was directly at the tree...and despite this fact, i actually had plenty time (1 1/2 bike lengths) to straighten up and still manouver around the tree. The bike wheel is probably now 3 - 6 inches from the tree, but a wiggle of the bars and body and you are safe. I have rebuilt the whole exit now to go almost directly at the tree with a slight camber to steer you away ...requiring a shimmy to get by.

    Riding yesterday, that is exactly what i was finding myself doing, leaving everything a lot later and the Endorphin was able to respond really quickly and confidently. Stoked that I am noticing things from my pumptrack already.

    The dude riding behind me said something like he noticed me squeezing past things on the trail.

    I cant honestly confirm that it pedals as well / or worse than any other comparable bike in its category - because of the soft muddy ground which literally makes you feel like you ate to many pies for dinner...so thats a pretty important aspect for me that is still open.
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  19. #19
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubilee View Post
    Good point raised! Mutton how does the Rev feel when you're pushing the bike hard...as compared to, say, a 36?
    Been sitting at my pc for 13 hrs now working...i am waiting for jobs to run...and probably starting to talk incoherent sh1t.

    The Revelation is rock solid. I am super impressed...thanks to T'isser who put me up to it. I had a Fox 32 that i was just going to throw on..but that is up for sale.

    I am at about 25% sag with 85 PSI and i was using everything but just under an inch of travel...which is fair. Gotto to save something for the big hits. That happened when i followed my riding buddy up and over a rock and then dropped off the back on the wrong line and directly into a stopper rock (e.g. a Tombstone...i believe they call it down in the desert?). The rock was about 5 inches tall and i hit it under full compression as I rolled off the other rock. I had a mini 'oh sh1t moment' expecting a pinch flat possibly, but the fork soaked it up 100% and i rode through it. i didnt notice any flex and i got to use all the travel.

    Pretty much butter...my first RS eva
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  20. #20
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by jubilee View Post
    Good point raised! Mutton how does the Rev feel when you're pushing the bike hard...as compared to, say, a 36?
    It doesn't compare. The rev is a good feeling fork for its intended purpose, XC/trail. Although I would feel pretty good riding the Endo on all of our trails, it doesn't stand a chance compared to the Chili with the Lyrik on it when things get ugly. DB keeps saying choose your bike based on the fork, and I think this is pretty solid advise. I don't think the Endo would feel right with a Lyrik/36 on it, the rear suspension just has a more taught feel to it. I wouldn't think it would have a nice balanced feel to it with a bigger fork.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  21. #21
    Knollician
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Been sitting at my pc for 13 hrs now working...i am waiting for jobs to run...and probably starting to talk incoherent sh1t.

    The Revelation is rock solid. I am super impressed...thanks to T'isser who put me up to it. I had a Fox 32 that i was just going to throw on..but that is up for sale.

    I am at about 25% sag with 85 PSI and i was using everything but just under an inch of travel...which is fair. Gotto to save something for the big hits. That happened when i followed my riding buddy up and over a rock and then dropped off the back on the wrong line and directly into a stopper rock (e.g. a Tombstone...i believe they call it down in the desert?). The rock was about 5 inches tall and i hit it under full compression as I rolled off the other rock. I had a mini 'oh sh1t moment' expecting a pinch flat possibly, but the fork soaked it up 100% and i rode through it. i didnt notice any flex and i got to use all the travel.

    Pretty much butter...my first RS eva

    Glad you are digging the fork. You might like to change out 50-60ml of the stock 5 weight oil to 7.5 weight. It adds a nice level of compression to the fork without much sacrifice. The other great feature of RS products is that you can adjust the oil height to control bottoming and add ramp.

    To do this, let all of the air out of the fork, and open up the damper. Typically add about 5ml of oil at a time. Put the damper back together (be sure to screw the black 10mm bolt on), and then compress the fork without any air. You will feel the increased ramp at the end of the stroke. Be sure you can get full travel, as too much oil will cause hydraulic lockout before you reach full travel. Very simple to do, and incredibly easy to service.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  22. #22
    ride your bike
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    That's good to hear Mutton and tiSSer. Thanks.
    Taking it easy for all you sinners.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    I rode in the rain last week....seriously.
    WHAT? Pics or it didn't happen.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  24. #24
    Yebo Numzaan
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    WHAT? Pics or it didn't happen.
    Were there any slippery roots?

    And you guys laughed at me when i bought a rain jacket to K Fest. Fools.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    I don't think the Endo would feel right with a Lyrik/36 on it, the rear suspension just has a more taught feel to it. I wouldn't think it would have a nice balanced feel to it with a bigger fork.

    Ahhh...but it does! Demo'd the Endo with a 34 x 150 and I ride mine with a Marz 55 160. The Marz is superb with the bike. Front and back feel great together. Synergy. Granted, we ride different trails completely, but on the fast flowy stuff with moderate chunk and chop, it's great. Great on steeps too.

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