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  1. #1
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    Endorphin thoughts

    The Endorphin is exactly as stated a trail bike with an aggressive geometry to provide confidence and stability. It is meant for long rides and pedaling fast.

    I built the Endorphin more on the aggressive side. Complete build weighs 29.9lbs, note this is probably the upper extreme for most Endorphin builds (at least it should be). I have the new 2013 Fox Float 160 RC2. I am waiting for the parts to reduce the travel to 150mm. At 160mm, the front end is 66 degrees. It will be 66.5 at 150mm. The bike actually feels good with the 160mm on it now – a little flop but nothing overly bad.

    Like the Podium, the new design is well executed and updated with the Noel’s latest improvements.

    I swapped the Fox CTD out for a PUSH Monarch RT3 – much better control throughout its stroke.

    As said, the Endorphin is meant for pedaling. You can feel the efficiency and lets you ride one cog smaller. I find it different than my current and previous Knolly bikes. In general, the Knolly suspension is described as active and on technical climbs it caterpillars up. The Endorphin is not as active and a bit harsher, this is a trade-off for speed. There is still suspension, but it is no Delirium, which is to be expected. However, the geometry lets you rail trails. I find the shorter chainstays hook up well in the corners. The improvement in pedaling – gives you a bit more snap and input of energy.

    My Endorphin build is almost the same as my Delirium. My Delirium with air shock and air fork weighs 33.9 lbs.

    With similar builds, geometry – one could think that these bikes would feel similarly. They are different bikes! As recommended, the Endorphin should be built as trail bike. I definitely over built mine. However, with lighter build, I am not sure if I would like it as much. It is something that I need to consider.

    The Endorphin is lighter and more agile owing to the weight reduction, and the extra snap at the pedals – you start looking for features in the trail to hop off.

    Recently, owing to weather and available free time, I have been riding trails close to my house with both the Delirium and Endorphin, which are rolling singletrack that require a fast pace. They are fun and are the primary reason for the Endorphin. Farther up the road in Santa Cruz the trails are more aggressive with long climbs and faster descents, which are more Delirium centric.

    This is sort of unique to test different frames with relatively similar builds.
    I guess the first question, what is the difference between two bikes, one with a pedal platform in the shock and one with platform designed into the suspension?

    ****** a few months ago I got the PUSH Monarch air shock for the Delirium. Dominic had been ridden his PUSH Monarch and loving it. For a long time I wanted to try an air shock on the Delirium. I was surprised by the result – it is a much better pedaler, but can still handle abuse. It rides a bit higher in its travel (similar to the Fox Float), but when aimed downhill just works very nicely. Yes, it can’t handle the rougher rocky sections as well as a coil, but it isn’t bad. I am not sure it if is the long travel nature of the bike, the suspension characteristics, or the custom-tune, but the end result is awesome. I love riding the Delirium in this mode. I would ride this bike in this mode for most trails anywhere.

    We recently did a shuttle trip to Santa Barbara and Dom and I converted our Delirium to coil-mode (coil rear and Marz 66 up front). The Deliriums ruled these trails in this mode. However, when we got back and switched back to air mode – we both commented on how capable the Delirium is in the air setup.

    I ride the Delirium as my primary bike. It fits me perfectly.

    Surprisingly, I don’t find the air-mode Delirium to loose too much ground to the Endorphin with respect to pedaling. Even though the Endorphin pedals faster and you can feel the acceleration relative to the Delirium, the Delirium pedals very well. Trust me, I am truly shocked by this finding.

    Now, turn the bikes downhill and it is not even a fair contest. The Endorphin can handle it, but the Delirium is just way too good in this realm.

    In summary, the Endorphin is a rocket with great geometry that lets you rail trails, but it is a harsher ride.
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    Last edited by Dude!; 11-30-2012 at 09:42 AM.

  2. #2
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    Nice bike! I went back & forth between the Chilcotin and Endorphin for my local riding, and my build would have been just like yours (heh, down to the saint cranks!).

    Thanks for posting up your thoughts, I'll have to send you my Chil for a review if I can part with it, that way you can provide a whole-lineup review.

  3. #3
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    Yep, Delirium stays until it breaks, or something truly can replace it, for many reasons similar to above.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  4. #4
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    You are going to need pontoons and a paddle for that thing after this weekend.

  5. #5
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    How does it compare to the "old" Endorphin, if you can remember what that feels like?
    [SIZE="2"]"You don't stop playing because you get old, you get old because you stop playing!" - Unigeezer [/SIZE]

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominator13 View Post
    How does it compare to the "old" Endorphin, if you can remember what that feels like?
    This is from memory...I have had a number of bikes since demoing the Endorphin.

    The old Endorphin was more of an all mountain bike. It was heavier and very planted, plush, pedaled okay. The reason that I didn't go for it - I felt that your DT pedaled better and provided a lot more confidence. It was time for me to step up to a big bike.

    The new Endorphin is firmly in the trail bike category and differs from the original Endorphin. There is a lot of gray with bike categories (XC, trail, AM, FR, DH). If you prefer more aggressive geometry for a small bike, the new Endorphin is it. It is fast and stable for a trail bike. The new Endorphin has one of the longest wheelbases on the market, and shortish chainstays. I like this geometry.

    The wheelbase for most trail bikes for a medium frame are around 44 inches. The new Endorphin is 45 inches. This is not overly long for AM bikes. So you are getting AM geometry in a trail bike form.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for keeping us posted. Great review!

    TG

  8. #8
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    Love to read a review between the chili and endorphin.

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    Thanks dude for the report. I've been waiting for your view as I know what I'm feeling on the bike but not always good at transfering that in words.
    I got the chilly to be my delirium in "light" mode. CCDB air light wheels and air fork. Well the air fork got replace with a Marz 55 ti but it still comes in right at 30 lbs. I had many miles on my delirium in air mode as well and like you, found it incredibly capable and I feel the chilly is extremely close to that set up.
    Now going back and forth between chilly and Endo, I thought it was me being out of shape but the Endo feels sluggish. Don't get me wrong, it's fast but it demands that your on the pedals and hammering compared to the chilly where yes it's slower but it feels as if the bike is doing the work for you. It's almost like there is stored energy in the suspension that catapults you forward on the trail. Yesterday, I rolled into a super chunky area and came to a track stand with a rock in front of my front tire and I thought for sure I was putting a foot down but I let off the brakes and magically rolled over the rock as if someone gave me a push.
    Also my Endo is wicked light (24 lbs) but when I get on the chilly I don't notice the increased weight that much. The more I go back and forth, the more I think the chilly is pure magical. But I think it just fit what I like to ride and my style of riding. In contrast, I'm sure when the snow melts and I'm riding my local buffed out trails I'll be on the Endo more.
    Cheers

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    . Yesterday, I rolled into a super chunky area and came to a track stand with a rock in front of my front tire and I thought for sure I was putting a foot down but I let off the brakes and magically rolled over the rock as if someone gave me a push.
    That must have been Dustybottoms giving you a push

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Thanks dude for the report. I've been waiting for your view as I know what I'm feeling on the bike but not always good at transfering that in words.
    I got the chilly to be my delirium in "light" mode. CCDB air light wheels and air fork. Well the air fork got replace with a Marz 55 ti but it still comes in right at 30 lbs. I had many miles on my delirium in air mode as well and like you, found it incredibly capable and I feel the chilly is extremely close to that set up.
    Now going back and forth between chilly and Endo, I thought it was me being out of shape but the Endo feels sluggish. Don't get me wrong, it's fast but it demands that your on the pedals and hammering compared to the chilly where yes it's slower but it feels as if the bike is doing the work for you. It's almost like there is stored energy in the suspension that catapults you forward on the trail. Yesterday, I rolled into a super chunky area and came to a track stand with a rock in front of my front tire and I thought for sure I was putting a foot down but I let off the brakes and magically rolled over the rock as if someone gave me a push.
    Also my Endo is wicked light (24 lbs) but when I get on the chilly I don't notice the increased weight that much. The more I go back and forth, the more I think the chilly is pure magical. But I think it just fit what I like to ride and my style of riding. In contrast, I'm sure when the snow melts and I'm riding my local buffed out trails I'll be on the Endo more.
    Cheers
    Thanks! Your reports have been excellent!

    Wow - 24lbs that is impressive that is lighter than my Blur TRC. I know that my build is on the heavier side - particularly my cranks. It would be hard for me to loose 5 lbs without giving up one of my kidneys.

    My Endorphin rides have all been solo rides. With tinkering with things, I didn't want to hold the group. I am looking forward to riding with my buddies. I am also looking forward to riding it in some more technical and gnarly trails.

    Huh -I haven't found the Endorphin sluggish at all. I found the Endorphin to be very consistent. On the Blur TRC, I found that bike to be sluggish on steep climbs. This would frustrate me, because this is when I wanted this bike to excel. I felt faster on my Delirium than on the Blur TRC on the steeps. I would also make steep technical climbs with the Delirium and the following ride with the Blur I couldn't make sections. I realize that part of this is knowing every little nuance associated with bike's response. I have this with the Delirium.

  12. #12
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    Jamie... I know you know this but I will say it anyway. You could shave 3+ pounds off that bike by going with some lighter (but just as tough) components. Like you said cranks, carbon race face or XO (I know you arent a big SRAM fan), carbon bars, lighter saddle, lighter stem, those big tires arent doing you any favors in the weight department, and dare I say it, maybe a Fox 34? I know you like the components that you ride and they make you feel comfortable but there is a plethora of lighter stuff out there that works just as good. If you sell that kidney you could totally afford a bunch of carbon bling.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Jamie... I know you know this but I will say it anyway. You could shave 3+ pounds off that bike by going with some lighter (but just as tough) components. Like you said cranks, carbon race face or XO (I know you arent a big SRAM fan), carbon bars, lighter saddle, lighter stem, those big tires arent doing you any favors in the weight department, and dare I say it, maybe a Fox 34? I know you like the components that you ride and they make you feel comfortable but there is a plethora of lighter stuff out there that works just as good. If you sell that kidney you could totally afford a bunch of carbon bling.
    Thanks - much appreciated. Yeah I am considering some of this. Tires are first on the list. Most of the parts are carry-over. I am not in the mode to spend any more money on bikes at the moment. Between a new Podium and a new Endorphin and financial losses in selling stuff the previous frames and parts- I am tapped out. This will give me time to ride more and consider my next move.

    Fox 34 - weren't you the one that said the weight difference didn't just the the 34 over the 36

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Between a new Podium and a new Endorphin and financial losses in selling stuff the previous frames and parts- I am tapped out. This will give me time to ride more and consider my next move.
    You own the new Podium, the new Endorphin, the newest Delirium, and aren't going to complete the set with a Chilcotin? Shame on you!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  15. #15
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    Hmmm...don't remember that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Thanks - much appreciated. Yeah I am considering some of this. Tires are first on the list. Most of the parts are carry-over. I am not in the mode to spend any more money on bikes at the moment. Between a new Podium and a new Endorphin and financial losses in selling stuff the previous frames and parts- I am tapped out. This will give me time to ride more and consider my next move.

    Fox 34 - weren't you the one that said the weight difference didn't just the the 34 over the 36
    I remember we had a discussion about putting a 32mm/150 on my El Guapo but I wanted to stay with a 36, the 34 wasn't even available then. Looks like you save about .42 lbs with a 34 vs. 36, you could save a pound going with a RS Revelation 150 and they are pretty stiff (and PUSH works on them too). Sucks being tapped out but hey.....you own three Knolly's, life is good!

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    Sizing

    Dude thanks for the report. I am seriously considering getting an Endo to compliment my Delirium. Could you compare sizing between your Endo and Delirium?

    I am stuck in between a medium and large. I had a medium Delirium that hurt my knees when pedaling a lot. Switched it to a large and the pedaling is better but I liked going down hill better on the medium. The endo has a bit longer ETT and a steeper seat angle, I might be able to squeeze into a medium.

    Thanks.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    You own the new Podium, the new Endorphin, the newest Delirium, and aren't going to complete the set with a Chilcotin? Shame on you!
    I know first world problems. Trust me I have no complaints. Being a student for most of my life making less than $10k/year until I was in my 30s, I know that I am very fortunate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    I know first world problems. Trust me I have no complaints. Being a student for most of my life making less than $10k/year until I was in my 30s, I know that I am very fortunate.
    Are you still studying ripcurrents?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    I remember we had a discussion about putting a 32mm/150 on my El Guapo but I wanted to stay with a 36, the 34 wasn't even available then. Looks like you save about .42 lbs with a 34 vs. 36, you could save a pound going with a RS Revelation 150 and they are pretty stiff (and PUSH works on them too). Sucks being tapped out but hey.....you own three Knolly's, life is good!
    Once I recognized the Endorphin's place, I actually started reading up on Revelations. I got a Marz 44 Ti for the Blur TRC, but it didn't like it. I think the Revelations could be great fork for this frame based on my readings. I would love to try one out.

    My interest is really piqued to build the Endorphin (or the Delirium) up as 1x11.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falling View Post
    Dude thanks for the report. I am seriously considering getting an Endo to compliment my Delirium. Could you compare sizing between your Endo and Delirium?

    I am stuck in between a medium and large. I had a medium Delirium that hurt my knees when pedaling a lot. Switched it to a large and the pedaling is better but I liked going down hill better on the medium. The endo has a bit longer ETT and a steeper seat angle, I might be able to squeeze into a medium.

    Thanks.
    I am a tad over 5' 8" with shorter legs and longer torso. Initially the medium Delirium felt a little short to me in the cockpit, but now I think it is perfect. You are more stretched out on the Endorphin and I notice it.

    On the Delirium, I have the saddle pushed back. On the Endorphin, the saddle is pushed more forward. Owing to this, when I drop the saddle and I am in a turning position, my knees don't hit the saddle on the Delirium. My knees do hit the saddle on the Endorphin, I need to adjust the saddle position a little a bit or my turning position, because it throws me off a little bit in turns.

    In general, switching between Endorphin and Delirium is effortless. I always had a learning curve switching between the Blur TRC and the Delirium.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Are you still studying ripcurrents?
    Haha - yep! I working with the Australians at the moment on rip current safety. We are jumping in rips with GPS and heart monitors and swimming in various directions.

    I am not studying rip currents as much, though my PhD student is focused on rip currents and exchange. We are trying to understand mixing and exchange of biology and pollutants in the surf zone and farther offshore (vice-a-versa). I have a project studying the nearshore transport associated with the BP oil spill. We will be deploying 200 GPS drifters next summer in the Gulf of Mexico.

    I have been all over the map with my research lately. I was tinkering with unmanned vehicles for some time. I was studying river dynamics, which was a lot of fun. Now I am studying inlet processes. I am the invited speaker at next week's conference.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    I have a project studying the nearshore transport associated with the BP oil spill. We will be deploying 200 GPS drifters next summer in the Gulf of Mexico.
    A year or so ago at applied mathematics conference at Snowbird ski resort, did you happen to speak with some random guy wandering with a girl in the corridors about your work and about Garrett Lisi's work related to string theory/unification theory?

    If so, we've met (and I am really that clueless, but curious).
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    I know first world problems. Trust me I have no complaints. Being a student for most of my life making less than $10k/year until I was in my 30s, I know that I am very fortunate.
    You need to buy a Chili, or at least get a long-term loaner, so you can compare the three bikes--the Podium being the outlier--and give us a writeup!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  24. #24
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    Rev's are good and 1x11 is intriguing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Once I recognized the Endorphin's place, I actually started reading up on Revelations. I got a Marz 44 Ti for the Blur TRC, but it didn't like it. I think the Revelations could be great fork for this frame based on my readings. I would love to try one out.

    My interest is really piqued to build the Endorphin (or the Delirium) up as 1x11.
    I'm thinking about switching the El Guapo to XX1 since it is back to trail duty since discovering the bliss of 29" wheels in the XC setting. The Rockstar 29 I currently have has a Revelation World Cup and it is surprisingly stiff even in the 29" version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Haha - yep! I working with the Australians at the moment on rip current safety. We are jumping in rips with GPS and heart monitors and swimming in various directions.

    I am not studying rip currents as much, though my PhD student is focused on rip currents and exchange. We are trying to understand mixing and exchange of biology and pollutants in the surf zone and farther offshore (vice-a-versa). I have a project studying the nearshore transport associated with the BP oil spill. We will be deploying 200 GPS drifters next summer in the Gulf of Mexico.

    I have been all over the map with my research lately. I was tinkering with unmanned vehicles for some time. I was studying river dynamics, which was a lot of fun. Now I am studying inlet processes. I am the invited speaker at next week's conference.
    Cool stuff. My job revolves around the ocean and ripcurrents. It would be cool to read about some of your studies.

    Sorry for the derail.
    Last edited by G-AIR; 12-02-2012 at 12:08 AM.

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