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  1. #1
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    Endorphin Pivot problem?

    Hey Knomers,

    I noticed a bit of a hesitation in my wifes '09 endorphin as I cycled it through its travel (no shock). I figured it would be a good time to take apart the pivots and see what was causing the binding and check to make sure the bearings are all OK.
    For the most part it has come apart nicely, but there are two pivots that have the bolts stuck in the threaded sleeve? The pivot nearest the BB is the first. The non-drive side bolt comes out fine, but the threaded sleeved rod (which I am assuming should also come out?) just spins in place.
    The second one is one side of the horseshoe at the seat stay One side comes out fine the other just spins in place inside the threaded sleeve. I can see the sleeve turning inside, but cannot break the bolt free of the sleeve. Hope that makes sense? Anyone have any ideas on how to dislodge these?
    On my Turners the pivot shafts are keyed with a 5mm hex so you can insert it and hold it still while you undo the bolt on the opposite side.
    I really want to check and/or replace all the bearings, but I have come to a stopping point that I don't want to push past and break anything.

    Help!

    Buzz

    PS I have tried sending an email to Knolly on their contact page, but the link appears to be broken.
    Last edited by Buzz; 01-27-2013 at 09:56 PM.

  2. #2
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    I have an 09 endo and I used Allen wrenches to pound them with a hammer. Just make sure it is big enough to not go in the bolt and damage the threads.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    PS I have tried sending an email to Knolly on their contact page, but the link appears to be broken.
    Try sending the email to info at knollybikes dot com

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaXCarp View Post
    I have an 09 endo and I used Allen wrenches to pound them with a hammer. Just make sure it is big enough to not go in the bolt and damage the threads.
    So you pounded out the threaded sleeve with an allen wrench? Id be scared of mangling the end and not being able to thread the bolt back in again. Part of the problem is that I cant get the loose side of the linkage apart so that I can even think about doing that.

    Buzz

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Try sending the email to info at knollybikes dot com
    Did that earlier this morning, thanks. They should probably check on their web page contact info setup. Is it just me that finds it not working?

    Buzz

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    Did that earlier this morning, thanks. They should probably check on their web page contact info setup. Is it just me that finds it not working?

    Buzz
    hmm, when I go to their contact us page it gives me a form to fill out. Not sure if it is working....I will order a bottle of whiskey and see if I get a response.....

  7. #7
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    Phew! Managed to get it apart. No hammering required! Under the advice of a friend, went to Rona and got myself an M6 bolt, nut, steel washer and nylon washer (so as not to scrape the frame up). Threaded the M6 boltt into the side that the loose bolt came out of until it stopped (M6 bolt - nut - steel washer - nylon washer - swingarm). Then tightened the nut down (with the washer and nylon washer up against the swingarm), while holding the M6 bolt and opposite (stuck) bolt still. Then gave the stuck bolt a few wiggles with the 5mm hex and voila! Came unstuck. I can post a pic of it if anyone is interested.
    Turns out the BB pivot bearings are pretty crunchy, so I will need to get new ones.
    Anyone have the specs on all the bearings? I count 10 in total, figure I might as well do all of them while I have them apart....

    Buzz

  8. #8
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    I could never find all the bearings in stock when I was cleaning out my pivots. The fact of the matter is that they are all high quality German bearings, so you might just want to try cleaning them and repacking them before spending a bunch of money finding specialty bearings.

  9. #9
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    I will definitely give them a good clean and re-pack before deciding if they need replacement. The only ones that feel really bad are the BB pivot ones, so hopefully they will be resurrected with some TLC.

  10. #10
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    This is good info Buzz. Thanks for sharing. I have had a similar problem with another bike and gave up in frustratation.

    Stripped the Chilly down last night...ready to give it a winter check up.
    I support EMBA

  11. #11
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    So I removed, cleaned and re-packed the main axle pivot bearings. These are double row bearings (3903-2RS) with a plastic carrier on each side which separates the individual balls from each other.
    It was a bit of a pain spacing the balls back out so the plastic carrier would fit back in, but I eventually got it to work. The bearings felt smooth after the cleaning and re-packing, but as soon as I pressed them back into the frame, the roughness returned. These bearings were toast Got some new enduro ones online, and pressed them back in, and they were smooth as silk! I will have to keep a better eye on these lower bearings, they seem to take the most load and get the dirtiest and thus fail the fastest. All the other bearings in the linkage were still smooth and clean.

  12. #12
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    So for what it is worth, I believe the notchiness you felt was just simply the races getting worn from use. during normal use the bearing only pivots never making a full revolution. this leads to wear in a very particular area in the race. to avoid this problem in the future, rotate the inner race every now and then so that the wear gets distributed a little more evenly.

    I ran into the same problem, but did not replace the bearings and put them back in. I just rotate them every now and then and things seem to be working smoothly.

  13. #13
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    That sounds like a good plan. What about the outer race though? It is going to get worn in the same spot unless you pop the bearing out and rotate it as well. Mine felt crunchy all around, not just where most of the load had been. It makes me wonder if this type of bearing is the right application for this job? It probably only turns through maybe 25% of the entire bearing circle. Im not a bearing expert by any means, just wondering out loud. If these bearings only hold up for a season or two (with maintenance), then they are not so expensive that I cannot just replace them every other year.

  14. #14
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    I think I got too technical. I meant rotate the bearing 90 degrees or so just to the balls. When you rotate the bearing this way the balls will travel along the inner race as well as the outer race. check out out on one of the bearings you pulled.

    As a side note, if your bearings were crunchy all the way around after cleaning, you made the right call in replacing them.

    I think the bearings that came with the bike are supposed to be some of the best you can buy, and if they are regularly maintenenced they will outlast the bike. Just my opinion though. The only bearings I've had to replace so far are the small ones in the 4x4 linkage arm.

  15. #15
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    I agree with what you are saying completely. Rotating these bearings from time to time would increase their lifespan. The point I am making is that the outer race will be in the same position unless you physically remove the bearing and re-orient it. Turning the bearing in place will move the balls to a different position and move the inner race, but the outer race remains static no?
    For the price, I can replace these bearings from Enduro at a rate of 3:1 over the originals, so as I said, if they last me 1-2 seasons I am happy.

  16. #16
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    Re: Endorphin Pivot problem?

    just fyi, i have asked two questions on the knolly contact page on their site and never got a response, so not sure if it is not working or they just never got around to answering my question

  17. #17
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    Heh, visualize the bearing for a moment.



    When you rotate the inner race you moving the position of contact of the balls on both the inner race and the outer race. What I am trying to say is that if you spin the bearing past its normal rotation in the suspension the balls will have new locations on both the inner and outer race. No need to rotate the outer.

  18. #18
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    Unless the outer race is the part that is actually worn....

    Excellent picture btw!

    Cheers

  19. #19
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    Ah, that's where we are having our mix up. All bearings wear, there is no way to avoid this. You can minimize this with proper lubrication and what I was talking about before, evening out the wear by rotating the bearing out of its wear paths throughout its life. Is that what you were worried about?

  20. #20
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    We could probably debate this all day. Lets just agree that rotating and cleaning your bearings is a good idea!

  21. #21
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    Hah. We'll call it a draw then.

  22. #22
    Yebo Numzaan
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    So Buzz...

    Awesome timing for you to have posted your thread. I have exactly the same challenge as you. The two same bolts as you also. I got the drive side horseshoe bolt out using a similar system to you. Except before the bolt backed out...it actually started pulling the insert out. Seems like there is an insert that the bolt screws into and the insert is what makes contact with the horseshoe link. I had to do a reverse system (before putting the original nut back) to screw the insert back into the frame. That horseshoe link really feels stiff...were you able to actually remove it - once you had taken the bolt out?

    Second - did you get the drive side bolt out - that is down by the BB? Similar trick to what you used on the other one - or what did you do?

    Some of my bearings were super dry...good to get used to servicing them regulary.

    Cheers
    I support EMBA

  23. #23
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    I have some pics that I will try to attach. They should make it make more sense. I asked Knolly for some exploded diagrams of the linkages, but they didnt have any (which I thought was weird). The insert you speak of is just a threaded tube/rod. Smooth on the outside and threaded on the inside. Mine came out fairly easily. I clean it up well and just pressed it back in by hand. You can see it in the pic.
    The drive side bolt is in fact a hollow axle with an 8mm hole through it! You can insert your 8mm wrench right through it and give it a wiggle or tap from the other side while cycling the suspension. If you need any help with trying to repack those 3903s, let me know...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Endorphin Pivot problem?-photo.jpg  

    Endorphin Pivot problem?-photo%5B1%5D.jpg  

    Endorphin Pivot problem?-photo%5B2%5D.jpg  


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