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  1. #1
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    Endorphin Fox CTD

    I finally built the Endorphin up. No trail time yet. However, I have been riding it around the neighborhood dialing it in. I am finding that I need to add a lot more air pressure such that is doesn't blow through its travel.

    With the correct sag, if I bunny hop , it blows through the travel and is harsh. With a lot more air pressure and a lot less sag, it rides much better.

    This seems to be opposite to what others are stating with their FOX CTD. Most seem to keep it in D mode.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    I finally built the Endorphin up. No trail time yet. However, I have been riding it around the neighborhood dialing it in. I am finding that I need to add a lot more air pressure such that is doesn't blow through its travel.

    With the correct sag, if I bunny hop , it blows through the travel and is harsh. With a lot more air pressure and a lot less sag, it rides much better.
    ================================================== ===============
    ""This seems to be opposite to what others are stating with their FOX CTD. Most seem to keep it in D mode.
    ???
    breezy shade

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    ???
    yep, that is my question

    It doesn't seem to have much mid-stroke support.

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    did ya experiment w/ the 3 settings?
    breezy shade

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    yep, that is my question

    It doesn't seem to have much mid-stroke support.
    Were the CTD shocks suppose to remedy this situation? It seems like this is a common theme the Fox Float rear shocks.

    With that being said I find actual trail time is the only to get a true feel for the shock. Maybe the shock will perform better once on the trail and up to speed. It seems I can always blow through travel in the driveway with single big hits.

    Hope you have better luck on the trail. Looking forward to hearing your impressions.

    TG

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    yep, that is my question

    It doesn't seem to have much mid-stroke support.
    Dude,

    Deflate the shock and open up the air can(only a couple inches, do not pull it all the way off) and make sure there is a volume spacer installed. The spacer will look like an oversized white lifesaver sitting at the bottom of the can. Let me know.
    Last edited by Dusty Bottoms; 11-19-2012 at 10:25 AM.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Dude,

    Deflate the shock and open up the air can(only a couple inches, do not pull it all the way off) and make sure there is a volume spacer installed. The spacer will look like an oversized white lifesaver sitting at the bottom of the can. Let me know.

    Thanks - I will check.

  8. #8
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    I tinkered with the Fox CTD with different settings and it has the progressive donut in the canister. I wasn't able to get it to work the way I wanted to on this frame. I agree with others that you mostly run it in "D" mode. It works well in the rough stuff so long as you keep the wheels close to the ground. I hit one little drop (ie 1 foot) or less and clank.

    The T mode works but it bit harsher. C is basically lock out. For me to use the shock such that I didn't bottom out, I was running 20% sag. This provided better mid-stroke support, but a bit harsh, not overly bad though.

    I feel the Fox CTD shock has a strong affect on the bike characteristic. I would like a little more mid-stroke. I like pumping my bike on the trail - it keeps me loose and helps in corners, etc. It one of the attributes of the Knolly bikes that I really enjoy. Pumping the Fox CTD blows through too much travel.

    At this point, no reason to discuss the shock anymore. I sold it and I bought a PUSH Monarch RT3. They have a few left - talk to Nick mention me (Jamie), as I explained what I am looking for.

    I have great luck with PUSH Monarchs. The PUSH Monarch on my Delirium is awesome ( I will discuss this more when describing the Endorphin). I had trouble with the RP23 on the Blur TRC (ie no mis-stroke support), swapped it out for DSP coil (better), and finally had a PUSH Monarch PLUS - which was hands down the best and I highly recommend. However, the Blur TRC geometry didn't fit me. The new Endorphin geometry is awesome (again will discuss more after a few more rides).

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the update Jamie. Disappointing that the Fox CTD didn't work better. Let us know how the Pushed RC3 works.

    Which fork are you running on your Endorphin?
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  10. #10
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    I've been having the same issues with the new Endo using the Fox CTD. When I first got the frame, Knolly was recommending 110psi for my weight, and I quickly bottomed out on a 2ft drop. I put in the volume spacer, and pumped up the shock to maybe 115, but could still pump the bike all the way through the travel on flat ground.

    I noticed Knolly has increased the recommended pressure, but in order to get the bike to feel right, I am running a little higher than that still. I always ride on D, with the trail setting at 1 to get the dampers as open as possible. This seems to be working, but I agree that there isn't much mid-stroke support. Took it off a 4-5ft drop without a hard bottom-out though, and it feels about right when I'm riding even though static sag is less than 25%.

  11. #11
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    Interesting comments here. I'm running 120psi in the CTD shock which is giving me 30% sag rolling along on the saddle at climbing height, on flat street. I weigh 145-150 lbs ready to ride. I have yet to get full travel on the trail riding somewhat aggressively over rocky terrain and I have hit a few small drops, 2'ers at speed while flowing along. I would actually like it to be easier to pump into turns to get it lower and loaded -- Since I've added a couple extra clicks of rebound it's firmed up the compression some taking away from this. I've been running it in D-2. BTW I was told that the 1-2-3 setting has no effect on the dampening when the shock is in D.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bnf1037 View Post
    I've been having the same issues with the new Endo using the Fox CTD. When I first got the frame, Knolly was recommending 110psi for my weight, and I quickly bottomed out on a 2ft drop. I put in the volume spacer, and pumped up the shock to maybe 115, but could still pump the bike all the way through the travel on flat ground.

    I noticed Knolly has increased the recommended pressure, but in order to get the bike to feel right, I am running a little higher than that still. I always ride on D, with the trail setting at 1 to get the dampers as open as possible. This seems to be working, but I agree that there isn't much mid-stroke support. Took it off a 4-5ft drop without a hard bottom-out though, and it feels about right when I'm riding even though static sag is less than 25%.
    Good to know that I am not the only one. Thanks for the follow-up. From my understanding, the numbers only modify the compression in the Trail setting. I could be wrong.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Which fork are you running on your Endorphin?
    2013 Fox float 36 RC2 at 160mm. I am waiting for pieces to reduce the travel to 150mm.

    It actually doesn't feel bad at the 160mm, but I prefer to keep it in the recommended travel range.

  14. #14
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    international reports seem to suggest that CTD is rubbish with T working best...

  15. #15
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    Ugh, I just picked up an new Endo and its always great to hear that the spec'd shock is crap and is going to need to be changed What are the general thoughts about a CCDB or CCDBA on this frame?

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    not my opinion, read the press...but if you don't like to fettle then maybe it's good? depends what youwant? i run a bos deville on my current bike that blows fox out of the water...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squib38 View Post
    Ugh, I just picked up an new Endo and its always great to hear that the spec'd shock is crap and is going to need to be changed What are the general thoughts about a CCDB or CCDBA on this frame?
    I think its going to take some time for these thoughts to develop. I turned a couple clicks of rebound and it changed the shock quite a bit. There are different sized volume reducers to play with too. Giving up on it after a ride, or not riding it at all may be too hasty a decision.

  18. #18
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    The Deville looks like a nice fork. Is there US service or distribution for Bos? Can the Deville be reduced to 150 if necessary?

  19. #19
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    I debated for some time to even post this. After the initial post and folks saw that I was selling the shock (intelligent group on this forum), I was getting some pings about my next move.

    If you run the shock with more air pressure and less sag, it works well. However, this troubles me, because Noel on many occasions states - set the sag first and get this right before moving on. Therefore, if I have to compensate for the sag for the shock behavior, I feel that I am off to a bad start.This is why I avoided the DB air, too many people stating the need to run a lot more sag to get the correct shock performance.

    For me, I had similar issues with the Blur TRC - not a direct comparison. I now know what feels good to me and what doesn't. I don't waste time as I have X number of days to ride, because of work, family, etc.

    I was probably a bist hasty. I had my reasons. PUSH is not making any new Monarch shocks, once they sell their inventory that is it. I figured it was best to sell a new shock for a slight loss and get a custom shock that is going to increase my enjoyment on the bike. If PUSH had an endless supply, I would have waited a bit longer.

  20. #20
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    Just checked the shock settings and went for another ride. My riding weight is about 140, and I've got 130psi in the shock, which is a little above the recommended pressure. This gives me only 20% sag, but any bouncing on the pedals quickly puts me into the travel. This setup seems to be working well for me.

  21. #21
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    Interesting how many frames are coming out with screwed up shock tunes. Doesn't really make a difference if it is Fox, RS, or Cane Creek. Sounds like the manufacturers spend tons of time working with the suspension engineers to get the shocks just right, then they go to production and are delivered something totally different. I highly doubt Noel & Dusty gave the thumbs up to the shock that is being shipped with the new frames. I know Dave Turner has had issues with Rock Shox with the Burner 650B shocks, the one I rode at Ibike was horrible, turns out it was the wrong tune supplied by Rock Shox. Fox has spent so much on the CTD crap which is basically the same technology as the RP3 right? Three positions, one firm, one in the middle, and one fairly wide open for descending. Those that were at Interbike saw all the trail signage installed by Fox everywhere for what position your shock should be in for the upcoming section of trail, it was kinda stupid funny. All for renamed technology from 5 years ago.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Interesting how many frames are coming out with screwed up shock tunes. Doesn't really make a difference if it is Fox, RS, or Cane Creek. Sounds like the manufacturers spend tons of time working with the suspension engineers to get the shocks just right, then they go to production and are delivered something totally different. I highly doubt Noel & Dusty gave the thumbs up to the shock that is being shipped with the new frames. I know Dave Turner has had issues with Rock Shox with the Burner 650B shocks, the one I rode at Ibike was horrible, turns out it was the wrong tune supplied by Rock Shox. Fox has spent so much on the CTD crap which is basically the same technology as the RP3 right? Three positions, one firm, one in the middle, and one fairly wide open for descending. Those that were at Interbike saw all the trail signage installed by Fox everywhere for what position your shock should be in for the upcoming section of trail, it was kinda stupid funny. All for renamed technology from 5 years ago.
    I think there is a bit of difference and I want to make this clear. A custom tune shock versus stock shock is going to be different and should be a lot better. If I wanted a better shock from the start, I could have opted for DB air. I didn't want the DB air because of some of its issues. I wanted to try the Fox CTD knowing in the back of my mind there was the PUSH option. In addition, when talking to PUSH you need explain to them exactly what you are looking for in the shock.

    A stock shock is a stock shock for some people with a certain riding style, weight, etc - this is going to work well. I may be too heavy for the optimal shock setting.

    The same can be said for the Fox 34 CTD versus Fox 36 float. I prefer the heavier more tunable fork. However, I think most people and I know a number of my riding friends are better suited toward Fox's CTD fork and shock - keep it simple. Even now I hop on my friends bike and turn a few knobs and they are like wow. By no means am I an expert and I can confuse myself, but I have tinkered enough to know what I like and don't like.

    I don't want folks freaking out that the CTD on the Endorphin is horrible and not to get the bike. Could I have lived with the Fox CTD - yes! Because of I rode an RP23 on a different bike, it hard to say whether the CTD is better, worse or the same.

    It is just once you have ridden some very good products, you seek to obtain a similar performance. I have been riding a custom shock on my Delirium for a long-time and I want the same performance on the Endorphin. Since I know there is a better product within my reach that will give me the ride quality that I desire I am going for it. Those also looking for a little better performance from lightweight air shock - there is an option.

    This can be said for almost every bike part.

  23. #23
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    I agree with you, the PUSH Monarch is amazing, too bad they arent making them anymore. The whole thing behind air shocks is that they are tuneable for all weights of riders by adjusting pressure, albeit wont be perfect if you are on either end of the spectrum. They should change CTD to KISS "keep it simple stupid"

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    kiss "keep it simple stupid"
    haha

  25. #25
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    How much do those PUSHED Monarchs cost?

  26. #26
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    think the deville is just 140, 160 and 170...i have the 160...an incredible fork that holds itself well yet swallows the terrain...not sure if they have a us importer and sadly they've just parted ways wit hte UK importer...awaiting news of/if who will be taking that on.

    the fork was developed by nico Voillioz, who all said and done knows his suspension. The rear shocks get some good reviews, but i still have a rp23 on my intense that seems to work fine...

  27. #27
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    Quick follow-up...

    I got the large volume PUSH Monarch RT3 today. Feels a lot better than the FOX CTD - better mid-stroke support and bottom-out control. However, I needed to install 2 rubber bands which are used to control bottom out. On my Delirium, I use 1 rubber band.

    Without any rubber bands, it clanked at 30% sag. With 1 rubber band, it was better, but still harsh on relatively small drops, and I could knock the sag o-ring off the shaft. With 2 rubber bands, a lot better and the o-ring stays on the shaft. I probably need 3 rubber bands, but I only had 2 available.

    It is amazing how much better and more confident inspiring this shock feels compared to the Fox CTD.

    More to follow...

  28. #28
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    Spacers in my 2013 Endo's CTD helped quite a bit to ramp up the suspension in a way to allow the proper sag. Tolerable now, but eyeing the Marzocchi Roco Air. I am so over Fox suspension.

  29. #29
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    Interesting, this is the first time I have seen this thread.

    For the 6 or so rides I have done so far, all trail/xc type stuff the CDT has been very good, and actually outperformed my expectations. I have read several other threads in other forums where people seemed to be unhappy with the predefined settings.

    For the rides I have done (keep in mind our XC/Trail rides are probably a bit rougher than most) I have been quite happy. I have yet to bottom the shock, yet I have used all of the travel. I don't feel any wallowing, and the bike pedals very well. We don't have drops, which seems to maybe be the issue, but even our "smooth" trails are brutally chunky.

    Since I have the newest of the frames here, maybe Fox has worked out any issues?? I have not looked to see if I have the volume reducer, I see no reason to since the shock is working.

    I'm running 30% sag, and exclusively run in the descend mode. I wouldn't be upset with maybe a bit more compression throughout the descend mode stroke, but I won't complain for now. I'll send it off to PUSH should I feel the need.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Since I have the newest of the frames here, maybe Fox has worked out any issues?? I have not looked to see if I have the volume reducer, I see no reason to since the shock is working.
    All Endorphins have the volume spacer.
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  31. #31
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    From my understanding (note that I could be wrong) after staring at the plots in the DGC discussion on the Turner forum. Decreasing the volume provides more middle to end stroke support. I really like this, because you can make the suspension more progressive without sacrificing too much of the initial suspension. I prefer a progressive suspension and is a big reason for getting a Knolly frame.

    I like the Monarch better than the Fox. Now I have only purchased PUSH Monarchs, but everyone has been outstanding. The Monarch handles propedal differently than Fox. I had issues with the Fox on the Blur TRC as well. I also like the big air can of the Monarch and the rubber band system.

    I really, really, really like the Monarch on the Delirium. Whatever PUSH did, it is great. Basically, in the lock-out on the Delirium - it is not 100% lockout - it is still active, but not as much. This is great for fireroads, flattish trails. The middle setting is for fast, but not overly technical trails. The middle setting is perfect for jumps. The open setting is the rougher trails both up and down. I was surprised at how well the Monarch works on the Delirium. It really makes the Delirium an all around beast. It allows me to pedal with the small bike guys, but once we get to the top and flip the switch with the robustness/travel of the Delirium - good bye

    I have been riding the Delirium a bit more lately and I forgot how fast I can go on it. From riding the Endorphin, I started using the shock lever more and that has translated to the Delirium. It is just so cool to flip a switch for the trail characteristic.

  32. #32
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    Just reading this info about the CTD. Interesting. The shock feels pretty good to me.

    I weigh 190 and running 150 psi for about 25 - 30% sag.

    I notice that the shock does not push the rubber band off the bottom of the shaft like my RP23...is that because of the internal volume spacer?

    On my RP23 i shimmed it myself using the plastic sleeve method. I can understand how an internal bumper would physically limit or stop the travel

    Is the clunking i am hearing on my frame possibly the shock bottoming out? If that is the case...it does not feel harsh at all because this clunking sound is not accompanied with any bumping / harsh sensation - hence me thinking it was more drive train / chain / bashguard related.
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