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Endorphin 27.5 in the Wild: Mini Review

6K views 44 replies 15 participants last post by  TSC 
#1 · (Edited)
Wow, first ride. A little background, I have been riding my Warden in the slack setting for some time now. I thought it handled great.

Tire Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel Bicycle wheel rim Bicycle fork


Today was a good day for a first ride. It had rained last night and the rocks and roots were angry and snotty in typical BC form. The chances for good first impressions were limited in these conditions. First a few disclaimers. I am not related to Noel. Nor am I paid by Knolly or it's afiliates. Having said this, the bike is unreal good!

Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel Bicycle frame Wheel Bicycle wheel rim


From low speed handling, to traction, to seated/standing transitions, to climbing, I was blown away. It is easily the most well balanced bike that I have been aboard. As a side note, Knolly's Fox tune on the Evolve shock was spot on. I have several Cane Creek shocks and was impressed with the Fox's performance. I rode it in trail mode for the whole ride. At 185 PSI (As per Knolly's Suggested settings)and 210 lbs loaded, I was close to ideal.

In summary, if you enjoy riding bikes and you are looking for a **** eating grin, consider this bike. It delivers.

A big shout out to Carter for hooking me up and Noel and company for sweating the details on this bike. It is a home run. Not just out of the park but off the front of the fifth deck!

Just a note on the BB height. On paper the Warden in slack and the Endorphin have similar numbers 13.3. I am running a 150 on the front which would raise this a bit and it was noticably higher with less strikes.
 
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#5 ·
Endo vs Warden:Both Large

Numbers:

Height: 5' 11"
Weight Loaded: 207-210 pending Lager consumption
Age: Old (Noel Vintage i.e. well seasoned grapes):p
Inseam: 34"
Center Crank to Top of Saddle: 30.5"
Stem: 40mm
Shim stack below Stem: 1 1/4"



The two biggest differences so far I noticed were climbing and handling. I was at least a gear less climbing.Didn't look back a lot as I already have a good crack in my helmut.Also, during steep ascents the front end felt more planted even with the 150 on the front. Secondly, the bike felt shorter and more maneuverable despite wheelbase numbers that are similar.
 
#4 ·
There was a couple of good steep sections on the trail I rode and the Endo felt nice and stable and not out of sorts. Today I am going to ride a bigger trail to get a better feel of it's limits, if any.
I was very impressed with the Fox. Stayed planted to the trail. Which is what I like with CC's shocks. The trail I'm going to ride today is steep with extended downhill at speed with extensive trail chatter. Should be a good test for the shock & bike. I have the CC DB CS coming so I will be able to do some back to back testing. Cheers
 
#6 ·
'Seasoned grapes' love it! lol

Is your warden built simular to the Endo?

I ordered a fox shock on the new Endo not even knowing what model came on the frame. I kinda planned on a winter AVY tune regardless.
I guess you can take the boy out of the homers but can't take the homer out of the boy! lol
 
#9 ·
'Seasoned grapes' love it! lol

Is your warden built simular to the Endo?

I ordered a fox shock on the new Endo not even knowing what model came on the frame. I kinda planned on a winter AVY tune regardless.
I guess you can take the boy out of the homers but can't take the homer out of the boy! lol
I was going to say low hanging fruit but that might have been over the top.

I tranfered my Warden build over to the Endo so I could get an apples to apples.
 
#8 ·
Went and rode Maple Syrup in Duncan BC today on the Endo. This trail tends to sort out rear shocks fairly quickly as there are low speed as well as high speed downhill sections. There are a few black diamond sections on this trail and the Endo handled them just fine I am happy to say. In this post I will talk about my opinion on the rear shocks. The short answer is it depends on your terrain and your innate love of switches.

Fox DPS

Let me say I have been married to the same woman for 32 years so I am not big on switching. This may be why I prefer Cane Creek's simple climb on/climb off mode. With the terrain around here it is difficult to to start fiddling with the three settings on the Fox. I think I would just leave it in trail and tune it from there. It is a good shock but in descend it does not give the pedalling support of either the Inline or CC DB CS in their open setting. The benefit of the Fox should be service intervals on the cartridge should be fairly long.

Cane Creek DB INline

Probably the best performing shock from a weight/performance ratio on the market. The climb setting is a little more aggressive than the CC DB CS but I don't mind that. The issue with this shock is service. There is less oil in this shock and subsequently it is more service intensive. If you are a heffer like me pushing 200 plus and riding alot you will need to service this shock at least once/yr @$150 a pop. Ouch

Cane Creek DB CS

You know how Linus on Charlie Brown had his favorite blanket. This is what this shock means to me. Yes it is heavier but it is sublime with a great climb switch. The service interval will be much longer with this shock so, depending how much you ride, it may or may not be a big deal. I ride 4,000 mile on dirt/yr so it matters more to me than some.

Cane Creek DB Inline Coil

Stay tuned. This may be Utopia



That's my diatribe on these shocks. Don't forget your results may vary. Cheers J
 
#10 ·
Nice write up! I am almost exact same height and weight as you so glad to hear it fits well. I have planned to run almost the exact cockpit as you and fork travel. With the fairly low stack height I was thinking of 35mm rise bars, looks like you are running something close? Wasn't sure with running a 150mm fork how much that would affect how the bars feel. Since you moved your build over from your Warden, is there any changes you are thinking of making fit wise?
 
#13 ·
I rode one of the tougher trails I ride yesterday and did not miss a beat. I think the extra travel gives you a little more margin of error when one screws up though. I think the 150/130 travel will be the sweet spot for my riding. It all depends where you ride and how you ride. I still do a ton of climbing and the better pedalling platform on the Endo is nice.
 
#16 ·
I run 760mm bars and 50mm stem on my smaller bikes (Chilcotin, Delerium, Endo) and 800mm only on the Podium. I still smack trees with the 760, (and 800mm depending on the race track), and never need the leverage ratio of the 800mm on 'tame' stuff. For DH, 800mm is mandatory unless you are 5'6" and can bench 300lbs :)

imo anyway.

Kent, I think where you ride mostly, you are not threading between trees too often, so the 800mm is going to be a matter of preference, not terrain. Am I right?

Its not apples to apples, but the 50mm on the 760mmx20mm bars feels just right if maybe a little tight, and I think our armspan/torso is about the same. So with the 800mm, I think 50mm would be fine. You are more of a hammerhead than me anyway, so getting a tad more stretched out is probably more suited to you.
 
#20 ·
I may end up trimming them down a bit. I think 775-785mm is going to be the sweet spot for me, but there are trees on my trails and I've been paying more attention recently to how close I get to some of them with my current 720 and 750 bars. I may find myself clipping a few at first with 800s. I do like the feel of the wider bars though.
 
#21 ·
I did a bunch of climbing today, and I think for me a slightly longer stem might be better. Since I am a fraction taller than you, that confirms that I think a 50mm will be good for you.

I did adjust my brake levers wider. My hand rests almost to the end of the grip now, giving me another 20mm width on the 760mm that I am running.


FYI. In my experience the 35mm craze is too much. The bars are too stiff, like my smaller ENVE bars. They are too stiff. I like the 31.8 Easton Havoc and 800mm ENVE better, solid, but not as rigid as concrete. If the NEXT 35mm bars are this stiff, the SIXC must be crazy uncomfortable...
 
#26 ·
Hopefully my AB oval ring will arrive today and maybe the rest of my drivetrain parts later this week. I met a guy on the trail a while back and he said his oval ring helped climbing a bit. I'll see.
 
#27 ·
Waiting for my Endorphin. I'm going to run 11 speed SRAM 10-42 with a 32. Thinking if I needed it put a One 44 back there. I've been running 2 rings for a long time. The oval maybe seems like a rehashed gimmick. But what do I know. I had run Shimano Bio Space(oval) rings back in the day. I still have have them in a parts bin. Didn't seem to do much but maybe bug my knees a bit. But most people were running triples back then. I guess more will be revealed.....
I've go a 60 stem and 760 bar I pulled from another bike seems to work so far. My LBS is pretty good about trying different stems. Probably go shorter stem. Just got to get the bike.
 
#45 ·
My understanding was the old Biopace rings were clocked wrong but I have never seen them so can't confirm. I have an Absolute Black oval ring on my rig now. After the first 5 minutes from changing from the round ring I felt like my power was up slightly on climbs. I have a Stages to confirm this but can't 100% claim that to be strictly a result of the oval ring. I also felt I was able to maintain a consistently higher cadence at a higher power output too. This was all on a lot of smooth climbing in preparation for Leadville. Can't say I have noticed much difference on more technical terrain.
You're right about Biopace being clocked wrong. A lot of the newer oval chainrings have been clocked wrong--just not as severely. There's a good paper about oval chainrings and the proper clocking* of the pedal to decrease knee strain. Here's the page: Non Circular Chainring. The authors (one of whom I corresponded with via email) have been helping a guy make their model a reality (rode bikes only, for now). The guy developing these oval chainrings is working on funding. Here's his site: PrOval Bike Components.

*IIRC, you need to clock crank lined up with the seatpost when the oval is on it's side. Not sure. Besides, they are talking about road bikes so it might not directly apply.
 
#28 ·
My understanding was the old Biopace rings were clocked wrong but I have never seen them so can't confirm. I have an Absolute Black oval ring on my rig now. After the first 5 minutes from changing from the round ring I felt like my power was up slightly on climbs. I have a Stages to confirm this but can't 100% claim that to be strictly a result of the oval ring. I also felt I was able to maintain a consistently higher cadence at a higher power output too. This was all on a lot of smooth climbing in preparation for Leadville. Can't say I have noticed much difference on more technical terrain.
 
#29 ·
Funny, I felt like I had less power when running the AB oval ring. Running a boring round ring now and it feels a lot better. But I did notice the higher cadence. Some of the difference could be that the oval was 32t and the round ring is 34t?
 
#31 ·
Like I said I can't claim 100% the power and cadence gains were a result of the oval ring but the power meter definitely showed a difference over a 3+ hour training ride I was doing every weekend for months from one weekend with a round ring to the next couple weekends with the oval ring. Along with the power data the most noticeable difference to me was the unscientific reduction in RPE at said increased power output. I think part of that is the increased cadence which effectively results in reducing your power output per revolution. Anyway, this conversation is way off topic. Back to the regularly scheduled conversation about the badass Endo 27.5.
 
#35 ·
Been on a half a dozen rides with the Endo now. The key word is FUN

A few things That I notice moving my build from my Warden in slack mode:

1) Feels shorter and more agile on the Trail despite similar numbers

2) Consistently one gear easier climbing

3) Bottom bracket is higher with the 150 front end resulting in less pedal strikes

4) Front end is more stable on steep ascents even with 150

5) The most important difference is the Endo fits me better. Don't ask me why,
the number are similar and I simply swapped the build.

6) The Fox Shock is growing on me. For trails that I can use the different modes effectively, it is very good. I understand why Rocky uses the bar mount CTD remote around here. It makes sense and let's you maximize the performance of the shock without dying.

PS: The Warden is going nowhere. I am building a Knolly war chest.
 
#34 ·
I too rode the Shimano Bio-pace back in the day, just because it was on the bike. Can't say I ever noticed it did anything. Going 1x was a game changer though, made me get stronger and quick. I see the oval having potential in that sense, so interested in what everyone finds out. I am not going to change my perfectly good ring for one, but when the time comes maybe.
 
#37 ·
I have been planning on getting a Warden but after reading your review I am having second thoughts. I currently ride a Chilcotin and love it, but would like something that climbs more efficiently. I don't want to give up much downhill capability though, since I do most of my riding on the North Shore. Does the new endorphin handle steep and technical downhills almost as well as the warden does? I plan to keep my Chili for the really Knargly trails and Bike Park riding. Sounds like the new endo would compliment it well and make a very versatile bike stable. Thanks alot for the review, even though it has made my decision more difficult!
 
#38 ·
Sounds like the new endo would compliment it well and make a very versatile bike stable.
That's what I'm doing. Chilcotin/Endorphin stable. My local trails are quite a bit tamer than yours, but I have ridden my 5010 on some pretty techy trails in Moab (Rockstacker, Jacksons) and it did well. Please note that the Endorphin is more capable than the 5010. I haven't ridden the Endorphin on true North Shore type trails but it is a very capable bike. Will it leave you wishing for more on your home trails? Not sure, but if you get the Warden, you may find yourself leaving the Chilcotin home most of the time.
 
#39 ·
Thanks for the words of wisdom Kent. The Endo / Chili combo makes alot of sense, but the Warden seems like it could work well for 95% of my riding and come close to a one - bike solution. I spend alot of time riding in Squamish so I want something that can climb and decend well.
 
#40 ·
Hey Skooks,

Pretty similar boat to you. I have a Warden and a Chilly...which i consider(ed) my best bike i had ever owned. Been thru so much together...some of the times we came out in one piece..other times one of us had to go for repairs.

I got the Warden with the same intention...to keep the Chilly for the more gnar riding. You know what...The chilly is getting more and more neglected.

I spent a week up in Whistler before the EWS. I rode the valley trails and trails I thought might be in the race. RDS plus west side trails like Green Monster and Billys.
No doubt about it...the Warden climbs better and descends as well IMO.

A week or two later I spent three days in Squamish and pretty much rode every black / double black trail i could find. Only more proof in my mind that the Warden is the real deal. Didnt hesitate on any of the lines on Treasure / Penthouse / Rampage etc.. I would say, the bike was so confidence inspiring it was scary. Rode a day on the Shore on the way up and same story.

Bottom line - the Warden does not give up DH capability to the Chilly....I could probably have pulled the piss a little more on a Delerium at Whistler or Squamish...but do not believe i would have had as much fun and felt so confident riding those trails on an Endo. I dont think I would want to go with anything lighter than a Warden in Squamish to ride the gnarlier trails for sure.

Adios bru...great predicament.
 
#42 ·
First let me say I'm not riding many double black trails like Mutton. If I was, I would be on the Warden. As far as everything below double black, I'm still learning what the Endo is capable of. My gut feeling is single black and below the Endo will do well. It depends on what you want to take on. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight. Cheers
 
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