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  1. #1
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    DB Air Alternatives for Chilly

    Have not had good luck with my DBAir. Sending it in once again for repairs. I like how it feels when it's working but it hasn't been right in awhile. I prefer a plush ride with the ability to stiffen it when climbing. The CS stuff seems ideal but I'd probably do the coil for more reliability and better feel. What are you guys riding?

  2. #2
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    CCDB titanium coil. Feels so much better than the CCDB air.

  3. #3
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    BOS Stoy coil. Feels so much better than the CCDB air.

  4. #4
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    AVA Woodie, the best shock in the world?
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    CCDB titanium coil. Feels so much better than the CCDB air.
    Yeah, I have one on my Delirium. I've had that one for about 7 years now and it's been stellar. A CCDB-CS is on the list.

    The Bos seems interesting but don't like the support options.

    Avy stuff looks good but no lockout thingee.

  6. #6
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    Woodyak, I was running a Pushed RS Monarch Plus RC3 on my original Endo. I also ran it on my Chili for a few rides until my CCDBA came in.

    I got to replace the Fox RP23 as I couldn't get that shock to feel good. might have been because I'm over 200lb RTR. It blew away the Fox RP23 in every instance.

    Its been awhile since I rode it but i do recall the shock being just as plush as the CCDBA. But with the switch I could firm it up (HP or Greenwoods) or open it up (Lynn Vietnam) I did however find the rear end could hang up over square edge hits if I was in the Pedal or Lock position. This is where I found the CCDBA to be a better shock as I could find a happy medium and not think about switches.
    I still have my RS monarch but the custom tune for my weight would be way over damped for you to even bother trying.
    I would take a look at Avy's offerings. Give Craig a call. I have always been extremely impressed with the Avy shocks I've run.

  7. #7
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    Everyone has different preferences....

    For me, I really like the DB Air on my Delirium. I have had a number of shocks on this bike.

    I have PUSH Monarch RT3, which is nice. Handle stuff well, but it more on the AM side of riding and makes it easy to pop little trail features. The lock-out is useful. It is not the best for small bumps, but no bad either. I thought this was an ideal shock for making the Delirium more pedal friendly, but the DB Air has replaced it. The DB Air doesn't pedal as well, but it is not far behind and the Monarch is a few notches below when it comes to the downhills.

    I also had the DB Coil until I got the DB Air. I prefer the DB air over the DB coil for most riding, particularly anything with pedaling involved, which is most of my rides. The DB Air is nice balance of everything. I was surprised that I was going to like it as much as I have. I really haven't found too much of weakness. As I said in another thread, I have little adjustable levers which allow me to switch tunes on the fly. I sold my CCDB coil after a few months of riding the DB Air.

    An Avy shock would be nice additional shock for bigger rides, but I have the Podium with an Avy rear, so there is really no need.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Everyone has different preferences...
    Exactly.

    Especially when it comes to ccdb coil vs air...its always hard to get people to agree...i thinks its simply down to each riders preffered style / what trails they ride / how the rest of the bike is built up.

    I personally am fed up with air shocks not really doing what i hoped so im now trying to put coil on everything, even if some do say to me its over gunned...id rather have an extra 300-400g on a bike than be unhappy with suspesion set-up/performance and/or feel of the ride.

    With the shock being the most important component on the bike (with forks joint first place and brakes in third), i dont why anyone can scrimp with weights or cash...these are the components folks should experiment / splash out on the most...they define the ride.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post

    An Avy shock would be nice additional shock for bigger rides, but I have the Podium with an Avy rear, so there is really no need.
    do you think its the best performing shock you can put on a podium?
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  10. #10
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    DB Air Alternatives for Chilly

    Is the new Fox Float X CTD shock a good option for the Chilcotin?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Everyone has different preferences....

    As I said in another thread, I have little adjustable levers which allow me to switch tunes on the fly. I sold my CCDB coil after a few months of riding the DB Air.
    Hey Dude! Do you use that lever to adjust the LSC on your CCDB to bias it for climbing and descending? How much adjustment range to you have and how much difference does it make to the bike performance?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibasso001 View Post
    Is the new Fox Float X CTD shock a good option for the Chilcotin?
    I am betting around here you will get very little support for the Float X. I have no experience with it myself but from what I've heard it behaves similarly to the regular Float CTD but with better resistance to performance fading in sustained DH riding. I could be off base there though.

    I ride a RP23 which, according to MTBR, should feel like garbage but it rides great. Maybe it's because I'm only 160lbs.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/lostboyscout | www.beerscout.ca
    Knolly Chilcotin | Surly Long Haul Trucker

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skooks View Post
    Hey Dude! Do you use that lever to adjust the LSC on your CCDB to bias it for climbing and descending? How much adjustment range to you have and how much difference does it make to the bike performance?
    Yes, it works well.

    I wish MTBR would fix there picture uploading so that I can show everyone what it looks like.

    Anyway... yes it is really cool to adjust the LSC and it is amazing the difference. I only use it for the extremes - long climbs, gnarly descents, but keep it in the middle most of the time.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    Exactly.

    Especially when it comes to ccdb coil vs air...its always hard to get people to agree...i thinks its simply down to each riders preffered style / what trails they ride / how the rest of the bike is built up.

    I personally am fed up with air shocks not really doing what i hoped so im now trying to put coil on everything, even if some do say to me its over gunned...id rather have an extra 300-400g on a bike than be unhappy with suspesion set-up/performance and/or feel of the ride.

    With the shock being the most important component on the bike (with forks joint first place and brakes in third), i dont why anyone can scrimp with weights or cash...these are the components folks should experiment / splash out on the most...they define the ride.
    I haven't found the air as a let down for riding. Quite the opposite. Let me preface, our trails are not overly technical, they are fast singletrack through the woods with jumps, roots, and only small sections of rock gardens. We do ride other locations that are much more rocky - Moab, Santa Barbara, etc.

    I also like to have my suspension ride higher and react more at speed and to me the air shock and fork for the most part gives me this desired riding style. I love the Fox Float 36 fork - I can dial that in perfectly. It feels like crap in the parking lot, but on the trail - wow! Same goes for the DB Air - small stuff as slow speed is a bit blah. If I play upfront of the house on the curbs - the DB Coil feel better and is a little plusher on the technical climbs. However, I find the faster I go the DB Air and Fox Float just feel better and better - some times scary.

    For technical climbing, the DB air is a nice balance of riding higher and traction. I often felt the coil after longer rides would suck my energy. With the DB Air, I still get great downhill performance but with extra energy.

    I am also that guy that hits all of the little features on the side of the trail, goes for the big side of the log hops, pump the trail...the air setups just work better for me. The air setups are better for the jumping as well - a bit better pop.

    When winter comes and the trails are wet, I can easily adjust the suspension for this. I like the tuneability of air.

    The only time I would want coil for this setup is if there was relentless rocks. However, at Moab I brought both of the DB Coil and DB Air and preferred the DB Air.

    The only thing that I wonder about between folks preference....I wonder how much difference there is with the Delirium shock orientation versus the Chilcotin shock orientation. I think the shock orientation on the Delrium (and Podium) maybe better in moving the shock. NOTE I HAVE ZERO KNOWLEDGE ON THIS IT IS JUST A THOUGHT.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    do you think its the best performing shock you can put on a podium?
    I really like the AVY on the Podium. I never think about the rear end - it pops and just eats the trail. Some of my buddies have the DB Air on their Podiums and are really liking it with minimal concerns as well.


    I didn't like the DB Coil on the Ver 1 Podium I could never get it lively enough for my liking. I like the Vivid Air for jumping, but it wasn't great in the technical. The DB coil was great in the technical but not the best for jumping. I mentioned all of this to Craig and whatever he did is near perfect.

    The ver 2 Podium is more lively to start so it is hard to make too many concrete connections because I got the Avy for the Ver 2 Podium. It works so well I just don't want to try anything else and that says a lot because I like to tinker with new bike stuff.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    I really like the AVY on the Podium. I never think about the rear end - it pops and just eats the trail. Some of my buddies have the DB Air on their Podiums and are really liking it with minimal concerns as well.


    I didn't like the DB Coil on the Ver 1 Podium I could never get it lively enough for my liking. I like the Vivid Air for jumping, but it wasn't great in the technical. The DB coil was great in the technical but not the best for jumping. I mentioned all of this to Craig and whatever he did is near perfect.

    The ver 2 Podium is more lively to start so it is hard to make too many concrete connections because I got the Avy for the Ver 2 Podium. It works so well I just don't want to try anything else and that says a lot because I like to tinker with new bike stuff.
    Dude hit the nail on the head about the AVY. I have never been on a bike that was so good off the lip of a jump as my Chilcotin with the Woodie in DH tune. I notice a slight difference on long rides or big uphill pedals, but not enough that it really matters on the Chilcotin.

    I am not sure why, but the DBair works great for me on the Endorphin. It does not have the wallow at slow speeds that showed through on the Chilcotin.

    I don't know if this helps any, but why not go coil on the Chilcotin and DBair on the Endo?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Have not had good luck with my DBAir. Sending it in once again for repairs. I like how it feels when it's working but it hasn't been right in awhile. I prefer a plush ride with the ability to stiffen it when climbing. The CS stuff seems ideal but I'd probably do the coil for more reliability and better feel. What are you guys riding?
    Woodyak, what's going on? Symptoms? I thought from your previous posts that you loved the DB AIR?

  18. #18
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    CCDB coil is the ultimate IMO, but the stock RP23 that came on my 12' chilly is the best RP23 I've ever ridden. Throughout the years, RP23 damping has been all over the place. The tune that came on my 12' chilli works really well at my body weight (~140lbs).

  19. #19
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    Lighter riders do get on well with the RP23. I had one on my Chili and am 50lb heavier RTR. It was fine on the decents, super stable, i liked it alot decending, but its lacked playfulness the rest of the time which is purely a weight thing, i.e. the shock did not perform properly as it could not support the combined weight of me and the bike.

    The main complaint heavier riders have is, with a FOX set up, how it's angle sensitive...on steep climbs the rear sags into the travel and the fork runs high

    The review below sums up the difference between bos and fox kitted bikes in a way many can relate to, i think its a good comparison between floats / bos and also cane creek:

    BOS vs FOX... there is only one way to find out... FIGHT! Singletrack Forum

    Its a good insight into why European people rave on about BOS.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  20. #20
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    I did love it while it was working. Over the past few months I've been having issues. Lots of issues. The shock was feeling really weird for about a couple of months and then the shaft broke about a month or so ago. Sent it in for repairs and they fixed under warranty w/o question. Put it back on and it felt a bit wonky but nothing I could put my finger on. Been riding it a bunch and now the 1st 15/20mm of travel feels like a blown shock after that bit of travel it feels normal. This makes the suspension feel pretty terrible. The last straw was I tried my wife's Rev1 Endo w/RP23 doing some lift rides and the suspension felt so much better than my Chilly with CCDBA. So I took it off and sent it in today. Gonna see what CC will do for me but seriously considering a change.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    I really like the AVY on the Podium. I never think about the rear end - it pops and just eats the trail. Some of my buddies have the DB Air on their Podiums and are really liking it with minimal concerns as well.


    I didn't like the DB Coil on the Ver 1 Podium I could never get it lively enough for my liking. I like the Vivid Air for jumping, but it wasn't great in the technical. The DB coil was great in the technical but not the best for jumping. I mentioned all of this to Craig and whatever he did is near perfect.

    The ver 2 Podium is more lively to start so it is hard to make too many concrete connections because I got the Avy for the Ver 2 Podium. It works so well I just don't want to try anything else and that says a lot because I like to tinker with new bike stuff.
    sweet! ...my woodie is on its way...its crossed the atlantic and is on our mainland, wont be long now but i can hardly wait! Im really excited about it
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubba13 View Post
    I don't know if this helps any, but why not go coil on the Chilcotin and DBair on the Endo?
    +1 for Coil on the Chili.

    Delirian and myself are both putting BOS Vipr2 air shocks on our Endos, since there are no 'Knolly tune' CCDB air CS shocks available aftermarket.
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I did love it while it was working. Over the past few months I've been having issues. Lots of issues. The shock was feeling really weird for about a couple of months and then the shaft broke about a month or so ago. Sent it in for repairs and they fixed under warranty w/o question. Put it back on and it felt a bit wonky but nothing I could put my finger on. Been riding it a bunch and now the 1st 15/20mm of travel feels like a blown shock after that bit of travel it feels normal. This makes the suspension feel pretty terrible. The last straw was I tried my wife's Rev1 Endo w/RP23 doing some lift rides and the suspension felt so much better than my Chilly with CCDBA. So I took it off and sent it in today. Gonna see what CC will do for me but seriously considering a change.
    Are you sending it to Cane Creek or Suspension Experts? My CCDB Air lost all damping a couple of weeks ago at the Killington Enduro race and I sent it to Suspension Experts. They replaced the damper shaft (which turned out to be scored) under warranty and sent it back to me. It feels a little softer but I can't tell for sure. Rebound damping is working again. I raced it at the Sunday River Enduro without any issues. That being said, I have ordered a Woodie and plan on using the CCDB only for lighter duty riding instead of long weekends of racing at the ski mountains.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I did love it while it was working. Over the past few months I've been having issues. Lots of issues. The shock was feeling really weird for about a couple of months and then the shaft broke about a month or so ago. Sent it in for repairs and they fixed under warranty w/o question. Put it back on and it felt a bit wonky but nothing I could put my finger on. Been riding it a bunch and now the 1st 15/20mm of travel feels like a blown shock after that bit of travel it feels normal. This makes the suspension feel pretty terrible. The last straw was I tried my wife's Rev1 Endo w/RP23 doing some lift rides and the suspension felt so much better than my Chilly with CCDBA. So I took it off and sent it in today. Gonna see what CC will do for me but seriously considering a change.

    Hmm. I'm wondering now if there's something wrong with my CCDBair. I keep tweaking and dialing the suspension and sometimes the rear feels ok but it never feels CCDBA-spectacular like I'm expecting. Sometimes on fast choppy DH stuff it feels like it's blowing through it's travel and bottoming hard. Kinda harsh mid-stroke or blowing through not sure which.

    How do I know if there's something broke or if I've just got the settings so screwed up it's just not working right? FWIW I haven't strayed too far from the Knolly recommended starting points... a click or two here, a half turn there, up a couple pounds, back down, etc.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Sometimes on fast choppy DH stuff it feels like it's blowing through it's travel and bottoming hard. Kinda harsh mid-stroke or blowing through not sure which
    might be hydrolocking
    2013 Knolly Endorphin | 2013 Knolly Chilcotin | 2014 Knolly Podium.
    Tweed Valley, Scotland.

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