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  1. #1
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    Couple of questions concerning the Knolly Endorphin

    Hi there

    I'm shopping for a new bike to replace my Bionicon Reed (L).

    The endorphin is on my screen and hopefully I will be able to demo it soon.

    Anyway I hope that some of you can help me with the following questions:

    1) How does the suspension behave when you go uphill? If I go with the Endorphin I will get it with a CCDB CS. The shock on my current bike takes a "deep dive" into its sag. Combined with a short seat tube, my long legs (inseam 36 inches) and a seat angle of 73 I always get the feeling that I'm dropping rearwards off my bike when going uphill.

    2) How lively does the bike feel? Is it easy to pop-off obstacles?

    3) Any advice on the size? I'm 6.2 ft but got rather long legs (inseam 36 inches). Therefore I lean towards XL with a short stem. On smaller frames that seat tube gets really short therefore I have to pull out the seat post really far Kevin from Knolly also suggested I should go with the XL frame.

    I know that most questions are best answered by a testride. However finding an XL sized Endorphin in Switzerland that I could demo is probably more difficult than a testride on a unicorn

    Looking forward to your answers

    I also had to chance to demo two Specialized bikes.



  2. #2
    Knollician
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    The Endo is an incredible climber. It really shines with out of the saddle efforts. When you stand up and mash on the pedals, the bike just goes. It has a rather unique feeling as it maintains gobs of traction, yet it's squirting forward. Seated climbing is excellent as well. I climb some pretty tech stuff on the Endo, and have no issues, it just goes where I point it. If I can't make a climb, it's because I didn't have the legs, not because of a loss of traction.

    The bike is very lively, snappy and most importantly FUN! It's a real ripper. I have never had so much fun cornering on a bike. The suspension and light weigh contribute to me looking for any and everything to pop off. The Endo is a nice taught, sporty suspension. It doesn't wallow or hammock like many bikes does when you hit the mid stroke, but rather is supremely supported yet active and plush.

    As for sizing, if Kevin says XL, then XL, he knows. Looking at your inseam, XL seem right.

    Enjoy the new bike
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  3. #3
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    I'm also looking to buy an endo, so I haven't ridden one (also trying to locate a demo). From what I've researched I would speculate that it climbs great on short technical climbs but suffers a bit on long fireroad ascents (like ANY AMish trail bike would). I knock out plenty of 40+ milers in the fall/winter but this fact doesn't really concern me. It'll just make you stronger

  4. #4
    Yebo Numzaan
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    I am a huge fan on my Chilly...which probably goes down as the best bike i have ever ridden. I am slowly falling in love with my Endo. Its taken a while due to an issue with my CTD...struggling with my Fork and an injury. However...i have to say that since getting back from injury 5 weeks ago, I think i have ridden the Chilly only once. I have been riding my local DH trail but riding from home - which is a pretty big ride. Its 30 miles round trip with 4.7 K feet of climbing mostly on a fire road ( 5 miles of pavement total). Most of the climbing is packed into the 2nd hour of the ride and its a grind. The total ride is 3.5hrs and the DH is all over in 20 mins.

    I honestly do not feel any negative pedal performance on this bike at all - quite the opposite. I put the CTD or RP23 into pedal mode and it feels absolutely awesome. When i cut off onto a single track climb - i remove the pro pedal and let the suspension do its thing and the Endo climbs like a goat. The single track climb has some super steep sections and numerous 4 - 8in skinnies that require precision and confidence. Love it.

    I have just (last week) got comfortable hitting all the steeps / tech moves / drops and gaps while clipped in on the Endo with my XC helmet. Its pretty awesome - about 5 yrs ago - i was riding this trail fully armored up on my VTach and now I am hitting it on my 'small' bike and riding from home!

    My endo is bad ass....I can barely imagine how it would feel with a CCDBA with climb switch!!

    I think the reason i love this ride so much is that it has a bit of everything...its pretty rad warming up from home on 3 miles of gradual uphill pavement - but everyone knows how crap that can feel if your bike wallows on pavement or doesnt feel efficient...trust me i wouldnt be loving this ride so much if the Endo didnt feel so awesome.

    FYI: my most recent comparable 'small' bikes have been a Trek Remedy 9.8 carbon and a Blur LTC and thats the basis for my comparison

    Been out of town all week working - dreaming of Fri afternoon ride...sweet.
    I support EMBA

  5. #5
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    Thank you guys for your comments They are most welcome

    I dont care that much about the "fireroad uphill" performance. Of course it would be nice if the bike climbed fireroads like a XC bike but I guess that is the price that you gotta pay for an active suspension.

    My biggest concern is the combination of the shock & seat angle As I mentioned above I got pretty experience on my current bike I just hate that damn shock going that deep into its sag...

    Eurobike is just around the corner and I'm wondering if the rumors about a 150mm/650B Knolly are true. We will see...

    The other bike I want to demo is the Spitfire V2 from Banshee. That bike also gets a lot of praise. I'm just wondering how it compares to the Endo...

  6. #6
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    The Endo and Spitfire are pretty similar, the Spitty is around 3/4 lb or 350g ish heavier, a (very) little bit stiffer and has the option of adjustable geometry and wheelsize. The Endo is a bit better finished and a bit better attention to detail. I like both bikes a lot, Knolly and Banshee are both great companies.
    BTW, I'll be in eastern Switzerland in 2 weeks with my XL Endo...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    The Endo and Spitfire are pretty similar, the Spitty is around 3/4 lb or 350g ish heavier, a (very) little bit stiffer and has the option of adjustable geometry and wheelsize. The Endo is a bit better finished and a bit better attention to detail. I like both bikes a lot, Knolly and Banshee are both great companies.
    Can you please comment on the suspension of the bikes? From what I have read the KS-Link seems to sit higher in its travel during uphill.

    Do you have a Spitfire V2 and the "newer" Endo?

  8. #8
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    I don't own a Spitfire V2, but one of my riding buddies has one and I've put a few miles on it, I do have a Banshee Prime 29er (with a CCDB Air and KS link) though. I had the shock custom tuned on my Endo to have more mid stroke support so it sits higher in its travel than it did stock. Most of the riding where I live has singletrack climbs in the Canadian Rockies, they tend to be on the technical side of things and the Endo is great for those. The closest we get to gravel fire road climbs are a couple of trails that go up quad tracks, on those where they are more sustained I do prefer the 29er, although I think it has more to do with the wheel size than the suspension.

  9. #9
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    A lot of good info given so far.
    Do yourself a favor and try to demo one. I have no complaints with how it climbs fire roads, and long non tech ascents. I feel i am giving up very little for how it performs on the downs. This is a bike that can get you to the top in comfort and still rip the downs. It is a great SoCal bike. A lot of my rides have long fire road climbs and short some what technical descents. In order to connect a few of these descents I can easily rack up 20-30 miles. This bike makes it all enjoyable.

    I think MuttonChops summed it up best. This is a bike you just want to ride. I am doing a lot of rides from my house that I wouldn't normally do on my Chili. Where I would drive to the trail head with my Chili, I am now making big loops and enjoying the entire ride with my Endo.

    I have it set up pretty light with a Revelation and Fox CTD. I will admit I am interested to see how it would feel with a Pike and more DH oriented rear shock. At that point I might be pushed to selling the Chili.

    I am riding a large. If you are ever up in the LA area you are welcome to give it a spin.

    TG

    Quote Originally Posted by tweasol View Post
    I'm also looking to buy an endo, so I haven't ridden one (also trying to locate a demo). From what I've researched I would speculate that it climbs great on short technical climbs but suffers a bit on long fireroad ascents (like ANY AMish trail bike would). I knock out plenty of 40+ milers in the fall/winter but this fact doesn't really concern me. It'll just make you stronger

  10. #10
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    I also have the Endo and Prime on my short list. MartinS, can you compare the two bikes a little more? Do you find the two bikes better at different stuff?

    How strong is this rumor of the Endorphin 650b and the bump up to 150mm in travel?

  11. #11
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    Great replies so far. I'm running a regular CCDBair so l'll add my 2 cents as well.

    1) The new endo doesn't wallow, with the CCDBair it digs into the terrain even more so than the ctd in my experience. A little less snappy than the CTD but that's because I like to run the dbair with 35% sag. Climbing traction is incredible and downhill performance is excellent. Sounds like you'll have the best of both worlds with the DBair CS. I think the new endo is very balanced and I never have the feeling of dropping rearwards.

    2) It feels very lively. YMMV, as this will be dependent on your shock settings somewhat.

    3) Go with Kevin's recommendation. He knows.

    If you're looking for a 26er I think an endo is hard to beat. But definitely try to test ride as others have said. At your height I would definitely test ride some 650b and 29er's as well. It might be hard to wait, but maybe see what happens at eurobike. Maybe Knolly will introduce a 650b endo.

  12. #12
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    Besides the wheel size, which is the biggest difference, they are fairly similar in that I don't have a lot of re-adjusting to do between them, general handling isn't too different, cockpit is almost identical etc. The Prime with it's heavier, stiffer frame, longer wheelbase and big wheels feels more like a monster truck, it eats everything in its path. It is more like a 29er Chilcotin than anything. I generally take it out on bigger rides, bigger climbs and bigger descents, preferably more 'wide open' stuff. The Endo is more 'fun' and lively, it likes the tighter twisty stuff more and is easier to throw around, it climbs tech stuff really well and has great traction once the shock is dialled in. Both suspension designs work well, if I was able to close my eyes while riding I would be hard pressed to notice a big difference, both climb well and are smooth and well controlled on the downhills.
    Quote Originally Posted by scepticshock View Post
    I also have the Endo and Prime on my short list. MartinS, can you compare the two bikes a little more? Do you find the two bikes better at different stuff?

    How strong is this rumor of the Endorphin 650b and the bump up to 150mm in travel?

  13. #13
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    Thanks for the comparison! It sounds like the Prime might have the edge if your riding includes a big share of downhilling that requires a long climb to reach. I'm wondering now how the 650b Endo will compare? Man, it s getting so hard to choose a bike these days!


    Quote Originally Posted by MartinS View Post
    Besides the wheel size, which is the biggest difference, they are fairly similar in that I don't have a lot of re-adjusting to do between them, general handling isn't too different, cockpit is almost identical etc. The Prime with it's heavier, stiffer frame, longer wheelbase and big wheels feels more like a monster truck, it eats everything in its path. It is more like a 29er Chilcotin than anything. I generally take it out on bigger rides, bigger climbs and bigger descents, preferably more 'wide open' stuff. The Endo is more 'fun' and lively, it likes the tighter twisty stuff more and is easier to throw around, it climbs tech stuff really well and has great traction once the shock is dialled in. Both suspension designs work well, if I was able to close my eyes while riding I would be hard pressed to notice a big difference, both climb well and are smooth and well controlled on the downhills.

  14. #14
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    I'm 6'3 and ride a Large (19inch seat tube). I mainly ride DH and set up my Endo on the more gravity side of things (2.5 tires, customized Van 36 to be 150, 50mm stem, 780mm bars, 1x10 etc). Normally I ride a XL in this category but wanted to be more "aggressive" cause of my 5yr or so DH focus. I've taken the Endo to bike parks and ridden epic xc rides and this bike has met every challenge and then some. Fantastic climber in and out of the saddle. Solid in the corners and really inspiring when the trail starts heading down. It gets low and all those angles they worked out for this bike really begin to shine. Depending on your riding style you can set this up really light for xc or make it burly for a gravity/enduro focus when you need to pedal to the top of runs. Super lively and wants to be pushed.

    Bikes I've owned in the last 5 yrs: tall boy ltc, chromag stylus, nomad ( all dumped for numerous reasons )

    My current DH bike is a 2012 V10c XL ( though its getting dusty due to how much fun the Endo is). I mention this cause I love the numbers on this bike and the Endo seemed to match the trail version I was looking for.

    I hate to be cliche but the knolly endo is the best bike I've ever ridden at this point. Amazing geo and incredible suspension design.

    Sorry if I rambled but hopefully some bit of info helps.

  15. #15
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    I have a 2013 XL Endo. First, I would say, yes, get the XL. You will be using a lot of seatpost if you go with a large, and the headtubes are short, meaning your hands will be low anyway.

    Second, the Endo is extremely sensitive to what shock you are running and how you set it up. It's really snappy with the Fox CTD (although a local mechanic did something to it that improved it, but he won't tell me what - and he didn't charge me, so I can't force him to). I tried a custom Marzocchi Roco TST Air on it and while that made it super plush on the downs, it did not offer enough platform for enjoyable climbing. If you don't mind the weight, I am guessing the CCDBa-CS is a great match for the Endo. Intersted to see what the Fox Float X CTD 123, LMNOP would be like on the Endo.

    The bike is snappy, poppy, playful and fun. It excels at tech climbing and cornering. It's not as plush and planted as a Chilcotin, but it's not supposed to be.

  16. #16
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    I got a good offer for the Endro from WrenchScience and will most likely go for it...

    I'm torn between L & XL. Kevin and Brian told me that I should probably go XL because my legs are rather long (inseam of about 36 inches). On my current bike my saddle height (meassured from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of my saddle) is 35.43 inches.

    Any advices?

  17. #17
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    Lol, Brian advised me to go L with the previous generation Endorphin and I'm looking to upgrade to a 2014 XL. My 2009 L I've got a 90mm stem, Fox 36 TALAS, and the seat pushed a bit back and it still feels a little cramped. Little bit on the light side up front on climbs.

    I didn't ride it at all last year because I felt the cockpit was too small for me.

    I'm 6'4", 220lbs, 36 inseam. I'd go XL.

  18. #18
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    Go XL. Seat tube will be too short and hands will be too low on the L.

    BTW, since my last post last year, I sent my CTD in to Avalanche and that is absolutely the way to go on this bike. I actually like the Avy'd CTD better than the CCDB-A-CS that I've tried. Best of luck - I hope you love it!

  19. #19
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    Thank you for your input Since I live in Switzerland I'm leaning towards the CCDB-CS. Avy gets a lot of praise but I would have to sent my shock from Switzerland to Craig to have it tuned...

  20. #20
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    With introduction of the DB inline shock from CC, I'm thinking of going that route. Is the CCDB CS too much shock for the bike? I see DH'ers running this, as the inline is about 200g lighter, and I'm only doing trails, no parks or jumps for me.

    Only thing is the Inline is 2-3 weeks away still.

  21. #21
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    I'm 6' and ride a Large with 50mm stem and CCDBA-CS, also purchased this year from Brian at Wrenchscience. Trust what he says, my bike is DIALED - I love it. You should be on an XL and change stem to suit (personally I would go with 50mm). I feel like this is perfectly balanced/centered, just enough over the front end to climb, and when in descend mode, just enough towards the back.

    I had the same issues as you on previous bike: my Nomad blew through first part of travel, wallowed in mid travel and the weight was way too far back over the rear, killing my back. The Endo/CCDBA-CS solved all those issues. In climb mode the thing has a very firm pedal platform, you sacrifice nothing. Then you flip the switch and you have a super plush, active descending mode. In addition, you can adjust the climb switch anywhere in between to vary the amount of pedal platform. It is perfect. This setup has the unique properties of being lightweight, snappy, active, responsive and plush all at the same time. Super fun, you will be stoked.

  22. #22
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    Thanks for your feedback! Pulled the trigger

    Brian from Wrench Science has been super helpful. Can't wait till the Endo arrives.

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