Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hani1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    224

    Chilcotin Vs. Endorphin as the One Bike

    So I am very intrigued by both the Chilcotin and the Endorphin and thinking either one could be my next frame. Budget and need to maintain marital bliss would require me to transfer the build that I currently have on my Mojo SL (Lyrik RC2DH Solo Air, Flows on King Hubs, X9 1x10 drive train, KS lev post, Formula RX/RO brakes, Race Face Sixc Bars)

    I live and ride in Mass/New England. I ride 75% trail/all mountain, 20% light freeride, 5% Park (Highland mostly). I love the Mojo SL but find myself at times wanting a bit more bike and certainly looking for more aggressive geometry.

    Chili:
    I know I would get this from the Chilcotin and then some but wondering if it is overkill? Would I hate choice when trying to keep my speed up on pedally sections of single track. It is a lot of constant small up and down here with lots of flat (but technical) to slight incline sections that are fun but as long as you are going fast.

    Endo:
    I know I would be able to push the endorphin further than the Mojo SL but by how much would I be left wanting more bike when sizing up drops 6ft+ or spending the day at the bike park?

    Ultimately I know it comes down to choosing between a trail or gravity inclination just wondering what other have done when making the same decision.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-AIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,381
    That's a tough call. Both bikes are awesome. Your build kit could work on either frame as well.

    I started off with the chili, then had both the Chili and Endo, and now I have the Endo as my one bike.

    You are looking at a one pound difference in frame weight; could be less depending on which shock you plan to use on which frame. I think you would want something like the CCDBA on the Endo, while you could probably get away with a lighter shock on the Chili.

    I would suggest the Chili since you will be riding some park days. The Chili is very versatile and can be built up in many ways. The adjustable geometry will also be a big plus for the diverse riding you plan on doing. I would build it with a lighter air shock (CCDBA, Monarch Plus, Vector Air) and have two sets of tires. With the air shock, lighter tires, and trail geometry you will have a relatively light trail ripper that can pretty much ride anything you are up to. For the park put on some DH tires and set it in the slack position.

    I'm sure you will get a lot of good advice from the other guys. If you get a chance try to get a ride on each bike. I think there a fwe guys riding them in your area.

    TG

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    268
    Quote Originally Posted by hani1 View Post
    So I am very intrigued by both the Chilcotin and the Endorphin and thinking either one could be my next frame. Budget and need to maintain marital bliss would require me to transfer the build that I currently have on my Mojo SL (Lyrik RC2DH Solo Air, Flows on King Hubs, X9 1x10 drive train, KS lev post, Formula RX/RO brakes, Race Face Sixc Bars)

    I live and ride in Mass/New England. I ride 75% trail/all mountain, 20% light freeride, 5% Park (Highland mostly). I love the Mojo SL but find myself at times wanting a bit more bike and certainly looking for more aggressive geometry.

    Chili:
    I know I would get this from the Chilcotin and then some but wondering if it is overkill? Would I hate choice when trying to keep my speed up on pedally sections of single track. It is a lot of constant small up and down here with lots of flat (but technical) to slight incline sections that are fun but as long as you are going fast.

    Endo:
    I know I would be able to push the endorphin further than the Mojo SL but by how much would I be left wanting more bike when sizing up drops 6ft+ or spending the day at the bike park?

    Ultimately I know it comes down to choosing between a trail or gravity inclination just wondering what other have done when making the same decision.

    Thanks
    Build an Endo and rent a big bike for the park.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    55
    I live in southern NH and ride mostly in MA, Dracut State Forest, Harold Parker, Great Brook Farm, Russel Mills and I built up an Endo for mostly trail riding. I don't really do big drops, usually 3ft and under, with a rare 4 footer. My lower back can't take the abuse I used to put myself though. Specs -XTR 9sp shifters, f/r brakes, 9sp crank/bb. XT- f/r derailuers, thomson seat post, crossmax st wheelset, ritchey carbon bar, loaded 85mm stem (I may change this to something shorter) 140mm DT swisss XMM fork, bike shop scale read 26.1lbs. I do just as much climbing as I do decending out there, I love the way the Endo eats up terrain, its a very good at climbing technical stuff, its not jack rabbit fast going up hill but holds it own very well. Going downhill its is an absolute blast, very confidence inspiring. I have no input on the Chili tho. If you go with a 150 - 160 mm fork (which you already have) should cover most if not all of the riding you do. Check out this vid Knolly Bikes | Media of Garrett putting the Endo though its paces.

  5. #5
    MC MasterShake
    Reputation: woodyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,881
    Tough choice buddy. I live on the North Shore, MA and I have both the Chilly and the Endo now. The Chilly has been my do-it-most bike for 2 years and it's been a fantastic bike. I had the Chilly and the Yeti ASR5C, which I used for XC racing (VT50, GG24, Millstone12, etc.). This past season I got real bored with racing and decided to swap out the Yeti for the Endo. Best decision I ever made. Now the Endo is my do-it-most bike and my Chilly is my park bike.

    As far as your decision goes that's a tough one. If you really want start pushing things at Highland you need at bare minimum a 6x6 bike with DH tires. I find the Chilly to actually be perfect for Highland, but not really enough for the other Parks I've been to (Bromont, Mountain Creek, Trestle, Steamboat, etc.) Not that the Chilly was bad you just got beat up more by not having the extra travel. You could build the Chilly pretty light and get it down to low 30's but coming from a Mojo SL you will notice how much harder it is to pedal. I tried that myself and you definitely notice the improvement when it's lighter but it's still a pig compared to a Mojo SL or Endo. To be honest if you are dedicated to one bike only I'd look at maybe the HD or Carbon Nomad. I personally prefer the ride of the Chilly over both of those but they are more pedal friendly bikes. The Warden could be an option but I'd be concerned about really riding park with anything less than a 36/Lyrik level fork.

    Feel free to PM me if you have any more direct questions about how these 2 ride.

    Cheers!
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hani1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by Goinslo View Post
    I Check out this vid Knolly Bikes | Media of Garrett putting the Endo though its paces.
    Seeing this and the other reviews made me consider the Endo instead of the chili. I was pretty set on moving up to a 160mm travel frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    maybe the HD or Carbon Nomad. I personally prefer the ride of the Chilly over both of those but they are more pedal friendly bikes.
    The HD is my other choice. I have ridden one in the local trails a few times and really like it. Never tried one up a highland though. How does the Endo hold up on the North Shore.

    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    Build an Endo and rent a big bike for the park.
    This is what I do with the Mojo SL now. Ill ride it in the morning on tamer stuff the switch to big bike for the afternoon.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    75
    If I were you I would choose the bike based on the type of riding you spend the majority of your time doing. This would be the Endo based on your post. I think you be wishing for more pedalling efficiency much of the time if you got the Chili. I was in the same situation as you but bought the Chili since I do a lot of steep AM/freeriding. Love the bike but I still ended up building a lighter 650b bike for trail riding.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: F.N.G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,355
    Get the Chilcotin and build a hardtail...

    Ride Your Way (Hardtail DH segment) - YouTube

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bubba13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    680
    Like some of the previous posters, I own a Chilcotin and an Endorphin. The Chilcotin has been set up with many different parts, but I prefer it as a bigger bike with an Avalanche coil shock and a 36 Float up front set at 160 or 170. The Endorphin is set up with a 36 Float set to 150 and Fox CTD or CCDBA depending on mood. So both set ups are fairly burly and the Endorphin gets ridden most of the time.

    You wrote that most of your riding is trail/light freeride. What kind of riding puts the biggest smile on your face?

    I ask, because the Endorphin has my number for what I like to do the most, CORNERS! The Chilcotin is damn good in this respect, but the Endorphin is telepathic. Most of our riding here in the PNW is relatively smooth, compared to some places, and the Endorphin rails it. The Endo still works fine for rougher riding, it just beats you up more than the Chilcotin. If the majority of the riding here was really chunky and technical, maybe the Chilcotin would get ridden more. For my riding here in the PNW, my one bike would be the Endorphin. (or maybe the Warden )
    Portland Off Road Navagators

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hani1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    224
    Thanks for all the feedback it is very helpfull especially those of you that have both frames. It makes sense the Endo fits my everyday riding. I have always said that the Mojo SL would be the perfect bike if were a bit slacker.

    But on the other hand I see this....

    Quote Originally Posted by F.N.G View Post
    Get the Chilcotin and build a hardtail...

    Ride Your Way (Hardtail DH segment) - YouTube
    And Have this:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin Vs. Endorphin as the One Bike-photo-3-.jpg  


  11. #11
    MC MasterShake
    Reputation: woodyak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,881
    Quote Originally Posted by hani1 View Post

    The HD is my other choice. I have ridden one in the local trails a few times and really like it. Never tried one up a highland though. How does the Endo hold up on the North Shore.

    It holds up great. For Lynn Woods and B&T's I'll choose the Chilly so I can hit the bigger drops and such but if you don't hit those bigger lines the Endo would be fine there as well. Probably the biggest thing is the bottom bracket is really low so you have time your strokes through rock gardens.Not a big deal for me but others might have issue with that.

    Another thing to keep in mind is we're not just talking a small difference in travel between the 2. The suspension is way different. The Chilly is more of a plow bike sucking up bigger faster hits way better than the Endo. With those type of hits on the Endo you really have to pick your lines as you will get kicked on the bigger stuff. I have run some DH level trails on the Endo and I was able to pick through it pretty good but it's nice having the margin of error that the Chilly gives you. Now when you go to the trails the Endo snaps to life zipping forward with each pedal stroke and it's almost magical taking those tight corners at speed. The Chilly is no slouch in this department but the Endo is way better. The 2 bikes are surprisingly different for only having 1" difference in travel and having very similar geometry.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    457
    I am an east coast endorphin owner and am constantly surprised on what it is capable of riding. I raced the whole ESC enduro series on it and was very impressed with how gnarly of terrain it can handle (Killington, plattekill, attitash, sunday river).

    As others have said, it will depend on your style as I prefer a bike that is very responsive to user input but still bails me out in hairy situations. The Chili is not as responsive as a rig and is more point and shoot.

    I have mine set up with a marzocchi 55 cr @ 150mm, stans flow ex and nice grippy 2.35" tire. I have the utmost confidence with dropping the front end into just about anything. As far as drops go, as long as there is any type of transition, you will be fine.

  13. #13
    Delirious Tuck
    Reputation: thefriar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,239
    Connecticut Chili and Endo owner here.

    Chili is awesome if you're planning to hit park every now and then, I took mine to Mt. Creek 3x last season and once to Highland (had a Vtach too last season as the regular park bike & season pass to creek) to get comfortable before a Whistler & North Shore Trip where the Chili saw 4 days of Park. Chili was fine for it all and I had a blast. Some stuff speed was sacrificed to get the right (safe) line through.

    Endo has just blown me away, unless I'm trying something big and new, which these days is Podium territory, the Endo just kills it. Fast and fun as heck on trail, and dances through chunky choppy lines where the Chili would be more point and shoot on same section. I've taken the Endo off some progressively larger lines and steeper stuff, with a Pike 150mm up front still testing limits of the thing.

    Nothing on the East Coast trail wise has overwhelmed the bike (yet), Cheap Thrills "XC" trail at Whistler had me wishing for the Chili several times and stepping off when Chili wouldn't have flinched. DH-ing with Endo would be a blast on the "flow" DH trails out there, but I'd say technical DH and you'll be putting bike and rider at unnecessary risk.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hani1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    224
    Particularly like all the east coast feedback. Sound like the Endo would allow me to ride in a similar manner to how I ride the Mojo SL and my Hardtail (picking fast and fun lines) but with some updated geometry and probably a significant amount of increase stiffness compared to the Mojo SL. While the chili is likely overkill for some of my riding it is very enticing to take the next step up in travel department.

    I guess it begs the question of how to go about throwing a leg over one before buying.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: wilks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,446
    I'm in the north East riding rocky rooty trails with a lot of steep but short ups and downs. I just sold my chilcotin as it was more bike than I needed. Currently on a Mach 5.7c which I like as the head angle is 67.1 degrees with my revelation 150. I appreciate the peppyness and lighter weight but nowhere near as point and shoot as the chilco. Don't forget with the chilco you can make it lower and slacker for a bike park. If I ever go to a park I'll rent. I see a Warden in my future.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,099
    I'll try to write more later when I have more time, as I too have both an Endo and Chili.

    But what's your time frame for buying? Sounds like a Warden might be the ticket for you if you aren't in a hurry and can't make your current rig last through the winter. I've not been keeping up with the Warden, but I think the ETA is late winter or early spring?
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hani1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    224
    I am in no hurry and will likely be waiting till at least the spring. I am equally interviews by the warden and other 27.5 offerings but don't think I can float rebuilding wheels along with a new fork. But a Warden with a 160 Pike sounds like a dream.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: KRob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,855
    You've received some sound advice from several northeast riders but I'll add my limited 2 cents as well.

    Most of my normal morning rides are more smooth, XC/trail type stuff where the Endo would be much better than the Chilcotin..... but I got the Chilcotin for the other 5-10 percent local chunky steeps and all the stuff I do when I travel (Moab, Phoenix/South Mountain, Las Vegas, St. George etc). At home for the routine rides I put up with the Chili, knowing that it's slower. Having said that, I'm looking for a light, snappy, shorter travel 27.5 or 29er to fill that need now.

    If I had to do it over would I go with the Endo for a one bike solution? No, I enjoy the super chunk and drops too much and would much prefer the Chili for that ..... even though as a total percentage of my ride time that kind of riding is only 5-10 %.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: hani1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    224
    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post

    If I had to do it over would I go with the Endo for a one bike solution? No, I enjoy the super chunk and drops too much and would much prefer the Chili for that ..... even though as a total percentage of my ride time that kind of riding is only 5-10 %.
    It's amazing how much I think about that 5-10% of riding compared to the rest. Its main reason why I am struggling with the decision.

    Thanks for all the input its very helpful. When I have a new build ill be sure to post pics

  20. #20
    EJC
    EJC is online now
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    25
    Own Chilcotin and Mojo SL with 650B and angleset. Great combo, but if I could only choose 1 it would be Endorphin or Pivot Mach 6.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    54
    I own an Endo and a Podium. When choosing between the Endo and Chili, it came down to pedalbility. Before the Endo I was on a nomad gen 1 that I used to have as my "one bike" and started racing Dh. I have never ridden a Chili so I can't directly relate, however, I am an aggressive rider who spends a ton of time riding lifts and searching for
    Gnarlier trail rides . The Endo is truly a blast to ride both up and down. Would I take it to Bike Parks... I guess and I have before, but when riding lifts , I'm looking to hit every feature in the park no bars held. The Endo is great
    for flowy trails but you will def get more beat up riding DH tracks and rockier runs. For trails, the Endo is stellar. I ride chunk ,
    Drops , sketchy trails that warrant a 6" bike , however the Endo is more than up to the task. Someone once said that its not the amount of
    Travel but the " quality " of travel that seperates a solid bike from the weaker. The Endo is an incredibly fun and capable bike that is a blast to rip trails and "all mountain" excursions . Bike parks are meant for DH bikes, so why beat yourself up and your bike to rally gravity trails. My advice is to save your trail bike for the "trails" and rent a Dh bike for the true gnar . If I were to choose between the Chili and Endo, it would be the Endo as I am blown away by how much fun it is and where it's able to go.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    42
    My votes on the endorphin. There is only one way to describe this bike, and that is fun! Im an adventure junky. I love taking of somewhere whre I dont know if Ill be hiking 6 miles with my bike, or descending chunky cleavland national forest trails. I have my endo set up with a 36m vengence and dbacs. Its extremely plough confident in the front while remaining nimble and plush in the rear. I took it to our bike park in big bear all summer and it was a blast jumping and crushing berms. We got rained out one day, and all I had to do was flick my climb switch on, and I wass off toa 20 mile xc ride. Probably one of the funnest adventure bikes Ive owned, I say go endo. And with every corners comes a huge grin on your face. Traction for days. Pm with questions!

    -Mo

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rscecil007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,099
    I hear ya on the new wheels and new fork, those could be a chunk of change depending on what you could sell your current ones for. One thing to keep in mind is if you throw your Lyrik on an Endo, you could really be slacking it out depending on what version of the Lyrik you have (tapered/straight, u-turn/solo air/coil, etc) and what lower headset cup you run. If you tell us what version of the Lyrik you have we can help you get an idea of what youd be looking at.

    Im really happy with both my Chili and Endo, and feel fortunate I can have both. The Endo is full air and about 29 lbs, and the Chili is full coil and about 34 lbs. Two totally different monsters for different rides. The Endo just gets up and goes, and rails corners like a rollercoaster, it's ridiculously fun. I think calling the Chili a plow machine is a bit of a dis-service (no offense to whoever mentioned that), as that bike does so much so well. It climbs like a billy goat, the only thing that will keep you from getting up a hill of any kind is if your legs give out. And the Chili handles rough stuff and chunk better than the Endo. And when you point the Chili, just plan on holding on and grinning.

    The biggest differences I notice between the two are fairly obvious and mentioned above, mainly due to the leverage curve differences: the Endo is snappier and takes less out of you, where as the Chili can just eat up anything its way, but takes a bit more out of you. If I only had to have one bike, Id keep my Chili. For the stuff I really love to ride (fast flowy, some jumps and drops, etc), the Chili is my go to ride. Granted I dont get to ride that stuff as often as I want, but Id sacrifice the other rides to have the Chili for those.

    Youve got a fairly hard decision, I dont envy you. Id still suggest looking/waiting for a Warden and maybe looking for deals on a 27.5 fork and wheels or something. The Warden just seems perfect for folks in your situation who are truly torn b/w the Endo and Chili. If I wasn't so attached to my Chili I might look into a Warden myself.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    75
    I asked the same question here a few months ago. Here is the response I received from the man himself. The context is how the bikes compare on North Shore/Squamish trails but you get the idea.


    Hi Skooks:

    Based on your post, most likely the best bet would be the Chilcotin. The Endorphin can handle the easier to middle trails (i.e. up to the difficulty of stuff like Ladies, Pipeline, Skull, etc...) but will start to get outclassed above that level. AND, on those trails, the Chilcotin's a better choice. Ultimately, it will be the fork that will limit what the frame can do, and the Endorphin rides best with Fox 34 / RS Pike style forks int he 150mm travel range. O
    Endorphins set up like this are absolutely AWSOME on Squamish trails like Word of Mouth and can easily handle trails like Entrails, Credit Line and Angry Midget.

    The Chilcotin will be THE bike for Fromme loops, plus it can handle most of the shuttle trails as well. You will find its limitations on some of the harder shore (i.e. Cypress) and WBP trails, but it can still handle them. Of course, you will give up some climbing ability here as well. On Fromme this isn't much of a deal at all, and in Squamish it will really depend upon what you're riding. But the Chilcotin will match your needs best of you're looking to keep your 160mm All Mountain bike as your primary ride.

    Cheers!

    Noel Buckley

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,157
    Quote Originally Posted by hani1 View Post
    I am in no hurry and will likely be waiting till at least the spring. I am equally interviews by the warden and other 27.5 offerings but don't think I can float rebuilding wheels along with a new fork. But a Warden with a 160 Pike sounds like a dream.
    FYI...your 26" Lyric can fit a bunch of 650b tires (like a 2.3" Pacenti Neo Moto) without any interference. It can't take some of the newer taller offerings that are close to 28" tall BUT it could tie you over for awhile till you can afford a true 650b fork.

    While I don't own either bike (current ride is a Banshee Spitfire V2 650b which rocks) I would wait for the Warden. I also live in New England and just didn't want to deal with the really low BB height of the Endo. Say all you want about pedal timing and ratcheting if you live here you know the crap we have to pedal through and I think you'll be smacking those pedals and crank ends all the time. Especially with the Knolly's active suspension. Just my hunch FWIW. Now the Warden is gonna have the adjustable geometry like the Chilly and and with the higher BB setting the BB height gets into a more New England friendly height, at least for me where a full squish bike with anything below 13.5" is out. (as a side note my Banshee has 3 way adjustable geometry and can go from 13-13.9" depending on 26" or 650b wheels. I have it set high with 650b wheels but a short A/C 150mm fork)

    I'm not a park guy but I think the Warden would take better to that than the Endo for obvious reasons. I value a bikes ability to climb up and over and down the nasty, ugly trails we have here more than almost any other aspect and in this regard I think Knolly's 4x4 just might be the best available. The Banshee is awesome and it's VPP works excellent (best bike I ever owned) but that Warden really has me drooling and can't wait to see some reviews or swing a leg over one. 650b...been on them since 2009 and haven't looked back. True believer in the size.

    My vote is Warden and figure out a way to make it work for you as it seems like it should walk that fine line better for a 1 quiver bike.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 74
    Last Post: 3 Weeks Ago, 02:18 PM
  2. KNOLLY Chilcotin and Endorphin: A 6 month review
    By tiSS'er in forum All Mountain
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 11-18-2013, 11:28 AM
  3. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 05-22-2013, 11:23 PM
  4. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 05-09-2013, 11:33 AM
  5. 2011 Endorphin vs. 2011 Chilcotin
    By bubba13 in forum Knolly
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 03-30-2012, 08:34 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •