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  1. #176
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    Can you guys help me out with 2 questions?
    1. When turning the outer dial(HSR/HSC), this turns the inner dial(LSR/LSC). Does this mean that everytime i adjust HSR/HSC that it's also changing the setting for LSR/LSC? Should I be using a screwdriver to hold the LSR/LSC settings in place whilst turning the HSR/HSC?

    2. When I turn the LSC there is no click but i can feel a bump. Is this a problem? Or the clicks don't matter as long as you can feel the bump?

    thanks

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Can you guys help me out with 2 questions?
    1. When turning the outer dial(HSR/HSC), this turns the inner dial(LSR/LSC). Does this mean that everytime i adjust HSR/HSC that it's also changing the setting for LSR/LSC? Should I be using a screwdriver to hold the LSR/LSC settings in place whilst turning the HSR/HSC?

    2. When I turn the LSC there is no click but i can feel a bump. Is this a problem? Or the clicks don't matter as long as you can feel the bump?

    thanks
    1. No. They are independent. You do not need to hold anything in place except the bike.
    2. That is the click, they are between 1/4 and 1/3 of a turn between "clicks"

  3. #178
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    Can somebody comment on the above mentioned bushing problems etc. Have they been sorted? Cheers.

  4. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Ok, got my shock back from Cane Creek. Malcolm ended up cutting some 1mm spacers to use in place of the o-rings. (see the crappy picture from my phone.) Now the problem is when I replace each o-ring with a 1mm aluminum spacer, when it's all slid together, the pivot axle sticks out about 0.5mm on each side. If I put a 1mm spacer on one side or the other, it all lines up perfectly. But obviously I don't want to do that.

    I've no idea of this slight bit of axle sticking out will be noticeable, I've not mounted the shock back up yet.

    But this somewhat creates another problem. Now there is no o-ring to protect the bushing from dirt, etc. How big of a deal this is, I don't know.

    Either way, I still stand by my original statement that this hardware design is beyond ****ing stupid.
    First time posting in the Knolly threads, but yeah, I'm having the same problem with my Chili and it's in the shop right now. The design is bad. And this problem happened with only 100-150 miles on the bike. Not to mention one of the bolts in the upper linkage just decided to come out. Not exactly stoked on this considering how much I spent building this thing up.

  5. #180
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    Hey guys. I am loving my Chilcotin and everything seems to be pretty dialed except for the fact that I cant seem to use all of my rear travel. Here are some pics of the travel I used during my ride yesterday which consisted of some really good size drops that buckled my knees as I was landing.

    I've read the forum so far for advice on setup and can't quite seem to figure out what I am doing wrong. I have my air spring set at 140 psi (I am 185 lbs in my birthday suit, 205-210 with pack) which puts the rear at around 30-33% sag. I started with the Cane Creek recommended settings for the DBAir and gave it a small touch more LSC. It pedals fantastically (efficient) and gobbles up tech unbelievably well. No complaints except for now getting all the rear travel and a harsh bottom out on big landings. I turned the HSC all the way off (towards the - on the DBAir) and it still didn't use all of the travel. I then reread the thread and saw Noel's warning not to turn the HSC all the way off so I added 1/4 turn back on. Can anyone give me some idea on how to fix this?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-20120821_200146.jpg  

    Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-20120821_200152.jpg  


  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    Hey guys. I am loving my Chilcotin and everything seems to be pretty dialed except for the fact that I cant seem to use all of my rear travel. Here are some pics of the travel I used during my ride yesterday which consisted of some really good size drops that buckled my knees as I was landing.

    I've read the forum so far for advice on setup and can't quite seem to figure out what I am doing wrong. I have my air spring set at 140 psi (I am 185 lbs in my birthday suit, 205-210 with pack) which puts the rear at around 30-33% sag. I started with the Cane Creek recommended settings for the DBAir and gave it a small touch more LSC. It pedals fantastically (efficient) and gobbles up tech unbelievably well. No complaints except for now getting all the rear travel and a harsh bottom out on big landings. I turned the HSC all the way off (towards the - on the DBAir) and it still didn't use all of the travel. I then reread the thread and saw Noel's warning not to turn the HSC all the way off so I added 1/4 turn back on. Can anyone give me some idea on how to fix this?
    More sag. I run about 37% and have no issues with getting full travel.

  7. #182
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    From everything I understand about the CCDB air, it is a very progressive shock. Add in the fact that the Chili is a rising rate linkage and you have some serious bottom out protection. Lots of people running 35-40% sag with excellent results.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  8. #183
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    Question - if you are running 10% more sag than designed for - don't you inadvertently induce a harsher ride?

    Owing to the progressive nature of the leverage, you want to keep your travel up higher so it can respond to bumps. If you run your shock with too much sag, then you are not utilizing as much of the suspension curve, because you are deeper in the curve. This will result in a harsher ride, because of the progressive nature.

    Maybe this isn't as bad on the Chilcotin, because its curve is less progressive than the Delirium designed around a coil shock.

    If is interesting, the RP23 need a volume reducer to mitigate bottom out on the Chilcotin and the DB Air is too progressive.

    These statements about the DB Air and sag/bottom out issues have deflected my interest in the DB air shock!

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    More sag. I run about 37% and have no issues with getting full travel.
    I don't know about that. When I was running that much sag the bike really suffered on technical climbs. On ledgy climbs the suspension would take the square edge hit and then kinda wallow and stay deep into the travel. I added PSI and now I probably have about 30% sag (I weight the same as Adaptive and have 155 PSI) and the tech climbing is way better. But I am also having the same problems as Adaptive. Harsh bottom out and using the same amount of travel as him.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  10. #185
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    I agree with the past few comments that you should not have to run more sag to get full use of the rear travel. I tuned my sag by adjusting the PSI on the trail lowering it to the plushest setting I can get while maintaining the excellent climbing characteristics (a.k.a no wallowing). Also, for reference, I am running mine (as you can see in the pics) in the lower bottom bracket setting. I'm not sure how much this matters but it might (when comparing PSIs and bottom out performance).

    So basically what I have right now is a 140mm rear travel bike. I would really like a 160mm one...

  11. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    Hey guys. I am loving my Chilcotin and everything seems to be pretty dialed except for the fact that I cant seem to use all of my rear travel. Here are some pics of the travel I used during my ride yesterday which consisted of some really good size drops that buckled my knees as I was landing.

    I've read the forum so far for advice on setup and can't quite seem to figure out what I am doing wrong. I have my air spring set at 140 psi (I am 185 lbs in my birthday suit, 205-210 with pack) which puts the rear at around 30-33% sag. I started with the Cane Creek recommended settings for the DBAir and gave it a small touch more LSC. It pedals fantastically (efficient) and gobbles up tech unbelievably well. No complaints except for now getting all the rear travel and a harsh bottom out on big landings. I turned the HSC all the way off (towards the - on the DBAir) and it still didn't use all of the travel. I then reread the thread and saw Noel's warning not to turn the HSC all the way off so I added 1/4 turn back on. Can anyone give me some idea on how to fix this?
    The not getting full travel issue is well known on the Mojo HD.

    Mojo HD and CCDB Air!!!

  12. #187
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    Today, I added a little PSI in my DB Air. About 3-4 lbs PSI to see if it felt better. I couldn't make the techy climbs I normally do on first try and my DH seemed harsh, I quickly backed out the air pressure to where I originally had it and it was perfect.

    This shock is VERY responsive to the little PSI you add or take out!! It is so important to get the sag set up right. If the sag is not right, none of the adjustment tinkering will matter. Get this shock between 35% to 40% sag. Heck compromise and go 37% sag.

    All that matters also is if the bike feels good on what you are doing. If you do a 6ft drop and it feels plush and great, and you stop to look at shock and see it did not use full travel....no biggy. I use more travel hitting smaller drops to transitions with a little G-out more than drops to flatter less decline transitions.

    Correct sag is the key first and foremost.

  13. #188
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    With that much sag, What is your fork sag then?
    Does it slacken the HA further or the fork need to be sagged the same amount?
    Last edited by Bullit_cn; 08-26-2012 at 11:58 PM.
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    Hey guys. I am loving my Chilcotin and everything seems to be pretty dialed except for the fact that I cant seem to use all of my rear travel. Here are some pics of the travel I used during my ride yesterday which consisted of some really good size drops that buckled my knees as I was landing.

    I've read the forum so far for advice on setup and can't quite seem to figure out what I am doing wrong. I have my air spring set at 140 psi (I am 185 lbs in my birthday suit, 205-210 with pack) which puts the rear at around 30-33% sag. I started with the Cane Creek recommended settings for the DBAir and gave it a small touch more LSC. It pedals fantastically (efficient) and gobbles up tech unbelievably well. No complaints except for now getting all the rear travel and a harsh bottom out on big landings. I turned the HSC all the way off (towards the - on the DBAir) and it still didn't use all of the travel. I then reread the thread and saw Noel's warning not to turn the HSC all the way off so I added 1/4 turn back on. Can anyone give me some idea on how to fix this?
    Make sure you fully cycle your shock with about 50-75 psi to fill the negative air chamber before increasing the air pressure to set your sag.

    See "To Measure/Set Sag" on page 15 (pdf page 16): http://ww2.canecreek.com/resources/p...ers_manual.pdf
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Make sure you fully cycle your shock with about 50-75 psi to fill the negative air chamber before increasing the air pressure to set your sag.

    See "To Measure/Set Sag" on page 15 (pdf page 16): http://ww2.canecreek.com/resources/p...ers_manual.pdf
    Thanks TSC, I missed that point.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Thanks TSC, I missed that point.
    Personal experience is always a great teacher!

    When I first got my bike together I was so excited that I set the sag to 33% sag; set the dials to Cane Creek's recommendations; and set to riding. My first day was some easy lift access with no harsh landings so I thought that was the reason I was using so little of my shock.

    For my next ride, I printed out Noel's shock setup dissertation and headed for what I thought would be the perfect jump. I twisted every dial every which way (my dials are quite chewed up now) and couldn't ever bottom out the bike. I finally decided that the jump wasn't big enough or the landing was not harsh enough so I reset it to CC's recommendations and went riding. I hit a 6 foot drop and still couldn't get it to use all the shock. Later that day on my third trail I was showing some friends how easy a stunt was (I helped build it); F'ed up; and broke my wrist. In the down time, I decided to RTFM (read the "fascinating" manual). After going through this step (charging the negative air chamber) I'm getting much more travel. I haven't been hitting anything big to flat so I haven't used all my travel.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  17. #192
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    Ideal shock set up?

    I've been riding quite a bit with Cane Creek's suggestions for the DBair on the Chili. It took me a lot to get used to it. I have found that I must actively set up for all jumps (i.e. compress and pop) or my back end wants to buck. I figured it was me being a newbie (only riding moderate amounts for 3 or 4 years with a year off for back shortening) and that the I should learn to ride with a setup like better riders have suggested.

    Yesterday I let two friends that are better riders than me try my Chili while doing some lift-access runs. The back end response scared the crap out of the best rider (a guy that raced BMX in high school and that used to ride regularly with some pro BMXers during college). He did half a jump line and then wanted nothing to do with my Chili. The other guy managed alright but I think he liked my "date bike" (an 08 Transition "Preston FR" with a DHXair 5.0) more. After riding my Preston on the jump line a couple of times I had to concede that my Chili was setup like a racehorse--great when you are aggressive and focused, but ready to buck you off if you weren't super vigilant.

    I've decided that I'm going to go back to Noel's setup dissertation and set the DBair for my current preferences and when/if that changes then I will make more changes. On a positive note: I'm really learning a lot about suspension setup and am becoming the local go-to person for suspension questions.

    Side note: KnollyBikes.com says the ideal sag for the Chili is 30% sag. I found that interesting since Noel recommended 33-35% in his write-up. Is that is more for a Fox shock? (I've tried 30% with the CC recommended settings and didn't like it at all.)
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I've been riding quite a bit with Cane Creek's suggestions for the DBair on the Chili. It took me a lot to get used to it. I have found that I must actively set up for all jumps (i.e. compress and pop) or my back end wants to buck. I figured it was me being a newbie (only riding moderate amounts for 3 or 4 years with a year off for back shortening) and that the I should learn to ride with a setup like better riders have suggested.

    Yesterday I let two friends that are better riders than me try my Chili while doing some lift-access runs. The back end response scared the crap out of the best rider (a guy that raced BMX in high school and that used to ride regularly with some pro BMXers during college). He did half a jump line and then wanted nothing to do with my Chili. The other guy managed alright but I think he liked my "date bike" (an 08 Transition "Preston FR" with a DHXair 5.0) more. After riding my Preston on the jump line a couple of times I had to concede that my Chili was setup like a racehorse--great when you are aggressive and focused, but ready to buck you off if you weren't super vigilant.

    I've decided that I'm going to go back to Noel's setup dissertation and set the DBair for my current preferences and when/if that changes then I will make more changes. On a positive note: I'm really learning a lot about suspension setup and am becoming the local go-to person for suspension questions.

    Side note: KnollyBikes.com says the ideal sag for the Chili is 30% sag. I found that interesting since Noel recommended 33-35% in his write-up. Is that is more for a Fox shock? (I've tried 30% with the CC recommended settings and didn't like it at all.)
    Try adding 1/2 turn of HSR damping (1 turn if the bucking is really bad). That should calm your bucking bronco down.

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    Try adding 1/2 turn of HSR damping (1 turn if the bucking is really bad). That should calm your bucking bronco down.
    I "tried" that on the trail, but I turned it the wrong way. I could still ride it because I had gotten used to compensating for the HSR by using the LSR of the fork and the shock (i.e. preload and pop) but my friends didn't think it helped at all.

    I realized my error later and fixed my mistake before the last run of the day. That said, I still want to go through Noel's method and see how good I can make the shock work for me.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I "tried" that on the trail, but I turned it the wrong way. I could still ride it because I had gotten used to compensating for the HSR by using the LSR of the fork and the shock (i.e. preload and pop) but my friends didn't think it helped at all.

    I realized my error later and fixed my mistake before the last run of the day. That said, I still want to go through Noel's method and see how good I can make the shock work for me.
    I like a super plush bike with slow rebound and no bucking. Here is what I did with the stock settings.

    1. Set air pressure to make about 35/37%-ish sag (have no idea what the PSI is and haven't touched it since)
    2. Rode it with stock settings for a few long rides just to make sure it was broken in. Made sure I did everything from XC to DH.
    3. Found some of the chunkiest singletrack I know that still required a lot of peddling/climbing and went to town with the tool.
    4. I started with LSR. I found it to be close to spot on. I slowed it down maybe 1 or 2 clicks.
    5. 2nd was LSC. I backed it off like 10 clicks to make it uber-plush and slowly backed it in to get a little more snap out of it.
    6. 3rd was HSC. Founds some 4 to 5' drops to almost flat. Hit them over and over. Ended up backing out the HSC to almost off.
    7. 4th was the HSR. Found some fast chunky DH and hammered at it as fast as I could. Ended up adding a hair more HSC as I was really sinking into my travel. Ended up slowing my HSR down by a click or 2. This really helped erase the square edge hits, even at slower speeds.

    I pretty much leave these settings as is unless the riding dramatically changes. When I go to the lifts and I'm doing A-line/Hellion style trails I add some more LSC to get a little more pop out of the bike. If I'm doing longer steeper more DH style trails I do the opposite with the LSC to plush things out more.

    If you're getting bucked then its 1 or more of the following:
    - Too much air. Put all of your gear on, get out a ruler and set it at 37% - ish percent. This is probably your biggest problem, especially if you're not getting all of your travel.
    - Rebound is set too fast. Could be just HSR or both. It's funny. I've found that must people ride with their rebound set way too fast. It's amazing how slowing down your rebound can smooth out the trails and give you more control over your bike.
    - LSC is too high. This is another issue I've found with other people's bikes. They jack up the propedal or LSC because they are used to their old crappy bike having terrible suspension. Back off that LSC and let the 4x4 do it's job. At first it will feel odd because your bike will start to erase some of the bumps. That's how it's supposed to feel

    Good luck with your tuning and don't give up hope!

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I like a super plush bike with slow rebound and no bucking. Here is what I did with the stock settings.

    1. Set air pressure to make about 35/37%-ish sag (have no idea what the PSI is and haven't touched it since)
    2. Rode it with stock settings for a few long rides just to make sure it was broken in. Made sure I did everything from XC to DH.
    3. Found some of the chunkiest singletrack I know that still required a lot of peddling/climbing and went to town with the tool.
    4. I started with LSR. I found it to be close to spot on. I slowed it down maybe 1 or 2 clicks.
    5. 2nd was LSC. I backed it off like 10 clicks to make it uber-plush and slowly backed it in to get a little more snap out of it.
    6. 3rd was HSC. Founds some 4 to 5' drops to almost flat. Hit them over and over. Ended up backing out the HSC to almost off.
    7. 4th was the HSR. Found some fast chunky DH and hammered at it as fast as I could. Ended up adding a hair more HSC as I was really sinking into my travel. Ended up slowing my HSR down by a click or 2. This really helped erase the square edge hits, even at slower speeds.

    I pretty much leave these settings as is unless the riding dramatically changes. When I go to the lifts and I'm doing A-line/Hellion style trails I add some more LSC to get a little more pop out of the bike. If I'm doing longer steeper more DH style trails I do the opposite with the LSC to plush things out more.

    If you're getting bucked then its 1 or more of the following:
    - Too much air. Put all of your gear on, get out a ruler and set it at 37% - ish percent. This is probably your biggest problem, especially if you're not getting all of your travel.
    - Rebound is set too fast. Could be just HSR or both. It's funny. I've found that must people ride with their rebound set way too fast. It's amazing how slowing down your rebound can smooth out the trails and give you more control over your bike.
    - LSC is too high. This is another issue I've found with other people's bikes. They jack up the propedal or LSC because they are used to their old crappy bike having terrible suspension. Back off that LSC and let the 4x4 do it's job. At first it will feel odd because your bike will start to erase some of the bumps. That's how it's supposed to feel

    Good luck with your tuning and don't give up hope!
    Mega thanks for the advice! Please share where your settings are at. I would love to duplicate them and feel how I like the ride. (FWIW: I do 85% or more of my riding with the nose pointed down the mountain. The 15% of "other" is because I didn't build the trails. )
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  22. #197
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    Anyone else have a DBair with a slow leak? I've got to air mine up prior to every ride. I've been airing up to 150 with a nice topeak zero loss pump and it's always down to 120 by the next day. It rides great but kind of an annoyance having to air up at the trailhead each ride. I'm wondering if it may be isolated to the valve or if it's a seal issue.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  23. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Mega thanks for the advice! Please share where your settings are at. I would love to duplicate them and feel how I like the ride. (FWIW: I do 85% or more of my riding with the nose pointed down the mountain. The 15% of "other" is because I didn't build the trails. )
    No problem. I actually enjoy suspension tuning. That's why the CCDB is THEE shock for me.

    I don't actually know the numbers as I go by feel. If I were to guess I'd say:

    Sag - 37%
    LSC - 4 clicks less from recommended
    HSC - 1/2 to 1/4 turn from fully off
    LSR - 1 click slower from recommended
    HSR - 3 clicks slower from recommended

  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullit_cn View Post
    With that much sag, What is your fork sag then?
    Does it slacken the HA further or the fork need to be sagged the same amount?
    I dont know fork, maybe 20%-170mm fork.
    I am sure it slackens HA more, but it climbs better and descends!

  25. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Can somebody comment on the above mentioned bushing problems etc. Have they been sorted? Cheers.
    Cane Creek and Knolly have been very helpful with the bushing issue. I don't have much time on the new hardware, but it is working well so far. The new parts are supposed to have a tighter tolerance and the rubber spacer has stayed in place.

    Huge for customer service!
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