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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Just wondering...if a DB Coil weighed the same or less than a DB Air, would anyone still pick the air over the coil based on performance characteristics alone?

    I may need to decide between the two shortly, and since I don't care about weight, I'm wondering which simply works better overall.
    I did. I chose the DBAir for my Podium. Mainly for the increased tuneability and more progressive nature which will hopefully make the impact less dramatic when I case something I really should clear. It seemed to me the 'faster' shock to go with.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    Hey Guys!

    I know I sound like a broken record here, but there are TWO different topics here:
    1) Air flow between inner and outer air chambers: old shocks may have had issues with this; new shocks shouldn't.
    2) Large volume external chamber: this is a sidegrade, not upgrade and useful for certain frame designs. It is not required for Knolly products (though shoudln't be detrimental either).

    If there is an issue with #1, you'll notice because you're not getting full travel on the shock: you will be missing about the last 8 - 10 mm of travel. You should have the shock serviced by an authorized Cane Creek service centre.

    As far as bottom out resistance, go back to the fundamentals:
    1) Ensure that your air pressure is correct - this is ALWAYS the starting point of shock tuning!
    2) Tune HSC as required to allow you to use all the travel, but not have frequent bottom out issues.

    Cheers!
    cheers noel
    reading this, especially the point with the last 8-10mm of travel, makes me wonder if my shock isn't one of the ones that has issues, as i really miss out the last few mm. i thought that the can shouldn't run through the whole way. but now it seems as if this could be a reason for my "strange" feeling i have, even having it dialed in my pov.
    what should be the next step for me if i need to get that fixed? can i do it on my own or do i need assistance?

  3. #303
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    i spoke to chris at cc and due to my issues with the shock and taking my setup into consideration, he recommended to change the inner can. i now sent the shock for update and am curious how this will influence the ride and my opinion. will keep u posted.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    To me coil works much much better. I've had the air for about 8 months. And just recently the coil. Coil is much plusher and provides better traction in my experience.
    That applies to all forks and shocks. Air suspension is such a stupid PITA just to save a few grams.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    That applies to all forks and shocks. Air suspension is such a stupid PITA just to save a few grams.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Furthermore, I have ridden with plenty of people who go extremely quick on stock suspension, widely derided as inferior to Avy'd Chili'd on these forums.

    Dyno charts don't have opinions, make some, post them.
    funny, i've ridden with plenty of people who go extremely quick on air suspension front and rear, widely derided as inferior to coil suspension by you. please post some dyno charts to support your stance

  6. #306
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    Let's face it, an individual's capability of going fast is not the metric we should be using to judge shocks. Everyone will ride at differing speeds, depending on an infinite number of factors and variables.

    But there is nothing wrong stating one's opinion. That's what forums are. I agree with Mrwhlr that air shocks are a PITA, which is why I'm changing from a 2012 Vivid Air R2C, to a CCBD Coil. Not that the Vivid doesn't perform well, I just don't like the 'feel'.

    It's my hunch, that if coil shocks could be economically manufactured to weigh less than an air shock and cost the same as an air shock, we wouldn't see any air shocks since they lose their primary benefit...weight reduction. (the ability to instantly change your air spring pressure is a close 2nd)

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Let's face it, an individual's capability of going fast is not the metric we should be using to judge shocks. Everyone will ride at differing speeds, depending on an infinite number of factors and variables.

    But there is nothing wrong stating one's opinion. That's what forums are. I agree with Mrwhlr that air shocks are a PITA, which is why I'm changing from a 2012 Vivid Air R2C, to a CCBD Coil. Not that the Vivid doesn't perform well, I just don't like the 'feel'.

    It's my hunch, that if coil shocks could be economically manufactured to weigh less than an air shock and cost the same as an air shock, we wouldn't see any air shocks since they lose their primary benefit...weight reduction. (the ability to instantly change your air spring pressure is a close 2nd)
    That's gonna piss Qbert off.

    Mfgs like air because they don't have to stock a lot of different springs.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfredo View Post
    i spoke to chris at cc and due to my issues with the shock and taking my setup into consideration, he recommended to change the inner can. i now sent the shock for update and am curious how this will influence the ride and my opinion. will keep u posted.
    I am quite possibly the biggest person on the planet riding a Chili and I got one of the first run frames with the CCDBA and even I at 300+lbs couldn't get full travel out of it. I could get my sag set up perfect but I still wasn't getting almost an inch of travel out of it. I sent my shock off to get the mod and it made a world of difference. To be honest, before the mod to my DBA and modifying the horrible OEM Fox Float RLC that came with my frame I had buyers remorse. Now I'm loving the bike. I just wish I had more places to ride it near where I live.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    That's gonna piss Qbert off.

    Mfgs like air because they don't have to stock a lot of different springs.
    it sure does since i run coil front and rear on my chili. too bad you mised the point there

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    it sure does since i run coil front and rear on my chili. too bad you mised the point there
    Was it your plagiarism, or your thinking a dyno can produce a stupid, ass-pain, plot? You better get off those coils, or get used to the idea that you're doing what I tell you to.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Was it your plagiarism, or your thinking a dyno can produce a stupid, ass-pain, plot? You better get off those coils, or get used to the idea that you're doing what I tell you to.
    no, my vanilla rc is avy'd. damn, i'm not running stock like you hero.

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    get used to the idea that you're doing what I tell you to.
    I like the logic. Let me try:

    Keep bickering!

    Now, you both will be doing what I told you to do; therefore, I own you!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  13. #313
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    Hello.
    I have configured the shox as the web recommendation for my chilco 2012.
    LSC: 15
    LSR: 17
    HSC: 0.5
    HSR: 1.5
    I weigh 225 RTR and I put the pressure to 180 psi but when pedaling I feel like a loose spring. What Do I have to do? Maybe I could put more clicks in the LSR and LSC to achieve more pedal efficence without put more pressure in the shox. Or is better put more shox presure?

    Thanks

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by graypaw View Post
    Hello.
    I have configured the shox as the web recommendation for my chilco 2012.
    LSC: 15
    LSR: 17
    HSC: 0.5
    HSR: 1.5
    I weigh 225 RTR and I put the pressure to 180 psi but when pedaling I feel like a loose spring. What Do I have to do? Maybe I could put more clicks in the LSR and LSC to achieve more pedal efficence without put more pressure in the shox. Or is better put more shox presure?

    Thanks
    WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE....You should be around 160 psi. That will set your sag up correctly and won't feel like a loose spring. Check out the Knolly's website and the recommended pressures. You are way above that. Good luck. The shock is incredible.
    Last edited by mayha; 06-25-2013 at 06:57 PM.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE....You should be at 160 psi. That will set your sag up correctly and won't feel like a loose spring. Check out the Knolly's website and the recommended pressures. You are way above that. Good luck. The shock is incredible.
    Hello.
    Thanks for your answer.
    The last weekend I tried to put 160 pressure into my shock, it was impossible to climb with that setup. I have a 1x10 transmission with the Leonardi General Lee adapter to transform my 11/36 cassette to a 11/40. I adjusted the transmission in my house, the chain went up and down on every pinion without jumps or yanks. When I went out and I began to climb the chain went up with a lot of jerks and only run a bit well in the last pinion, the 40 tooth.
    To avoid it I put more pressure in my shock, I got less yanks with but I didnít fix it. What could I do? I think to put more clicks the lSC, cuts down the chain, Other suggestions?
    Also I think the default shock setup suggested in the web doesnít apply on that setup and I must find by myself

  16. #316
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    hi graypaw
    well, i do not have the same problems that you have, but i agree that the setup suggested doesn't apply to all shocks.
    i would suggest that you talk to either dusty bottoms here, or to chris from cc and tell them about it. they should be able to help. maybe you need the shock, or at least the inner can, getting replaced. or maybe something totally different.
    good luck.
    if you need chris' email, let me know.

  17. #317
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    Hello Alfredo.
    Thanks to answer my post.
    I thought to ask the spanish's Knolly supplier because Is very strange the behaviour of my chilco, but as I have a special tramsnission I will try to do first some differents setups to find a solution. That is my first CCDB and this shox is very difficult to setup for inexperienced people. One thing is true from few weeks ago I feel the shox as a soft spring.

    Regards

  18. #318
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    My personal preference is to set the pressure based on Sag. What ever pressure it takes to get 30% sag fully geared up for a ride for me is the right pressure to use. On this bike I'm pretty sure 30% sag is about 17mm. I always get the sag dialed in first before turning knobs. The recommended settings are a good starting point. I am also a heavier rider and found that I like my bike setup with 1 to 1.5 turns of high speed compression. at .5 on HSC I found it would sink to deep into it's travel on sharp hits.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMarkWa View Post
    My personal preference is to set the pressure based on Sag. What ever pressure it takes to get 30% sag fully geared up for a ride for me is the right pressure to use. On this bike I'm pretty sure 30% sag is about 17mm. I always get the sag dialed in first before turning knobs. The recommended settings are a good starting point. I am also a heavier rider and found that I like my bike setup with 1 to 1.5 turns of high speed compression. at .5 on HSC I found it would sink to deep into it's travel on sharp hits.
    I too thought the recommended settings and pressure guide were really good. I am not more than a click or two off on any of them.
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  20. #320
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    see, i am (or was) on the complete other side. i also do first set the sag, but with me it's 21mm (i'm not that heavy). nevertheless i had hsc even more open (to 0.25) and it still felt harsh. i now sent it to replace the inner can and hope this will solve the problem.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfredo View Post
    see, i am (or was) on the complete other side. i also do first set the sag, but with me it's 21mm (i'm not that heavy). nevertheless i had hsc even more open (to 0.25) and it still felt harsh. i now sent it to replace the inner can and hope this will solve the problem.
    In my case I have both the higher flow inner can as well as the new XV outer can. I must say so far I am liking the higher volume outer can. Before the can the closest I could get to full travel was about within 3/8 inch of full stroke. On my ride the other night I got to within 1/8 inch of full stroke which is close enough for me.

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMarkWa View Post
    In my case I have both the higher flow inner can as well as the new XV outer can. I must say so far I am liking the higher volume outer can. Before the can the closest I could get to full travel was about within 3/8 inch of full stroke. On my ride the other night I got to within 1/8 inch of full stroke which is close enough for me.
    Yes, if you are within 1/8" of full stroke you are well into the bottom out bumper at that point. Less HSC won't get you that last bit, a bigger drop will
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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLust View Post
    Yes, if you are within 1/8" of full stroke you are well into the bottom out bumper at that point. Less HSC won't get you that last bit, a bigger drop will
    Whats interesting is if you let most of the air out of the shock and cycle it, there doesn't appear to be a bottom out bumper, or if there is one its extremely soft. So I'm not sure the air CCDB has one.

  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMarkWa View Post
    Whats interesting is if you let most of the air out of the shock and cycle it, there doesn't appear to be a bottom out bumper, or if there is one its extremely soft. So I'm not sure the air CCDB has one.
    I haven't pulled mine apart yet, but was referring to the bumper Noel mentions earlier in this thread:
    Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread

    There is also mention of cycling the shock to equalize the negative spring. Deflate, cycle shock, then re-inflate. Hopefully you get all the travel you paid for
    "Lightweight , durable , inexpensive
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  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLust View Post
    I haven't pulled mine apart yet, but was referring to the bumper Noel mentions earlier in this thread:
    Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread

    There is also mention of cycling the shock to equalize the negative spring. Deflate, cycle shock, then re-inflate. Hopefully you get all the travel you paid for
    Yep.. that is when I noticed the lack of a bumper, when making sure the negative spring was properly charged after putting on the XV can. For me it's not about getting every mm out of the rear suspension, but I felt that when I had the SAG set properly for me, and also got the HSC set to where I liked it, I could never use the last 3/8 of a inch of stroke no matter what I rode.

  26. #326
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    Re: Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread

    Hello.
    This evening I reconfigured my shox from the beginig.
    I configured a 30% of SAG, 18 mm, and l put the default ccdb air settings. Also I changed the cable and the case of the rear derallieur and I went out to test it.
    The result was the same, a lot of chain jumps and jerks when I climbeb.

    I put 2 more clicks into the LSC and HSC setup. With this setup the transmission run better, but not nice. I have to seek the best setup.

    Regards,

    Enviado desde mi GT-P7500 usando Tapatalk 2

  27. #327
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    I don't understand how a shock setting can cause jumps and jerks on the chain? I've had my share of drivetrain issues, but none have ever been linked to the shock.

  28. #328
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    Hello.
    I suppose the reason of my problem with the rear derailleur and the chain tension is when I'm climbing I press a lot the shock. Maybe I have a wrong rear derailleur setup but in the stand works fine. Maybe my Sram X9 Type 2 has an issue and is better to come back to the sram x9. I don't know but the problem is very tricky.

    When I mounted the Leonardi the first time I had a shortest chain and the rear derailleur was the sram x9. I had a lot of chain outs and for this reason I bought the MRP AMg and the SRAM x9 type2.

    Tomorrow I will bring the bike to a workshop.
    Last edited by graypaw; 06-27-2013 at 10:01 AM.

  29. #329
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    I honestly wondered the same myself when I got the chilcotin in the first full production run. having come from several DW bikes. No anti squat and all that. Was worried about rear wallow. Our trails are very short but steep techy rocky rooty affairs. I'm not sure how it works but even with lots of sag the bike climbs amazingly well and the from end (I've ran 55 and deville forks) just stays planted.

  30. #330
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    graypaw, have you checked the derailleur hanger alignment? If it's straight and the derailleur is set correctly with high/low screws and cable tension I can't see why you would be having shifting issues. No matter how poorly tuned the shock might be (sounds like you have it back to recommended settings) I can't see how the shifting would be related to this. Do you have a picture of how the cable is routed? If the bends are extreme enough it could cause ghost shifting, but again it's not the shock tune.

    The only other thing I can think of is chain line. If it's out enough the shifting issues would be more noticeable when the chain is under tension. Unfortunately it always shifts better in the stand
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  31. #331
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    Ja, now you have perhaps identified the real issue...also look for stiff links in the chain (pedal backwards with the bike in the stand and look for skips in the derailuer / feel for kinks I the chain as it leaves the derailuer pully or even visually look for kinks)...often times the chain will work fine in the work stand or even when pedaling lightly...but as soon as you throw down some power...it will start skipping.

    I had a similar shifting issue recently (Totally random and sporadic ghost shifting) ..and it turned out to be that the derailuer was loose...just a 1/2 turn of the allen to snug it up and problem solved.

    good luck.
    I support EMBA

  32. #332
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    The last weekend I had time do to several test and changes to find the real problem.
    I came back to the rear sram X9 derailleur, I took off the chain guide, I changed again cable and the cover, but the problem remains. This afternoon I want to take off the NSB 30T chainring and restore the AKA chainring 32T to try to keep the Leonardi 40T.

    Surely, is not a problem with my rear shox but I still think that the CCDB air affect in my transmission system more than other shock with propedal. But I like how it flow downhill

    Thanks a lot for your advices and answers
    Last edited by graypaw; 07-03-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  33. #333
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    Hello.
    News from Cane Creeck:
    Climb Switch Technology

  34. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by graypaw View Post
    Hello.
    News from Cane Creeck:
    Climb Switch Technology
    notice the bike they were testing it on.

  35. #335
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    What, why?
    Norco Range Killer B1,
    Specialized Enduro S-works
    Orange Five

    You mean they're all linkage actuated single pivots or just single pivots?
    Last edited by tp806; 07-10-2013 at 10:21 AM.

  36. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp806 View Post
    What, why?
    Norco Range Killer B1,
    Ibis Mojo HDR.

    You mean they're both 650b?
    Cane Creek DBair CS - First Look - Pinkbike

  37. #337
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    Oh yeah, but in their promo video, on their site, it is a Norco Range Killer B.
    I guess each tester is using a different (their own) bike to test the new shock.

  38. #338
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  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp806 View Post
    What, why?
    Norco Range Killer B1,
    Specialized Enduro S-works
    Orange Five

    You mean they're all linkage actuated single pivots or just single pivots?
    Only one of those is a single pivot.
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  40. #340
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    4 weeks without me able riding my chili due to delay in getting my shock serviced. i told chris form cc about it and he sent me a new one incl. xv can.
    what shall i say? now it's running like hell. the shock feels like lots of travel and transmits confindence. i'm very happy now but i think that the x-tra airvol was necessary.
    thanks chris for the great support.

  41. #341
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    Definitely interested in hearing feedback from this new shock. It seems ideal for a Chili.

  42. #342
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    Finally getting some good DH time on my chili. I'm finding the shock a little slow with the stock settings. I have since backed off the LSC and LSR a few clicks from the recommended settings on the CC website. I also gave it 1/2 turn less HSR. It's getting closer, but 2 weeks in Whistler/Squamish/North Van should get it sorted
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  43. #343
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    Anyone else getting a bit of a sucking sound from their CCDBA on the rebound stroke? If it was a DHX5 I would say cavitation and time for a rebuild. I haven't ridden the CCDBA enough to think that's possible. Maybe it's normal for this shock to make a bit of noise?
    "Lightweight , durable , inexpensive
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  44. #344
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    I was getting sucking noise with my CCDB Coil, when it was brand new, during rebound. Now that I have a dozen rides on it, it seems to have gone away.
    "My car of choice is a 12 year old civic that runs on the tears of my life choices." - redditor

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    I was getting sucking noise with my CCDB Coil, when it was brand new, during rebound. Now that I have a dozen rides on it, it seems to have gone away.
    oh this is awesome - to be taken soo many ways......... :-)

  46. #346
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    Reviving this thread to ask for suggestions on tuning. I'm looking to raise the BB height a little bit to reduce pedal strikes. If I put more PSI in the shock and reduce sag, should I be reducing the damping to ensure I still get full travel?
    "Lightweight , durable , inexpensive
    Pick 2."

  47. #347
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    I was contemplating this last night - and to some degree i think this would be true - however the two factors (damping / air pressure) are not (i believe) directly correlated. My way of understanding it is that damping is based on shaft velocity and the effect should be the same anywhere in the stroke whereas air pressure ramps up in a non linear fashion. It is easier to get the first 5mm of travel than the last 5mm of travel.

    Regardless...they must (?) compensate each other to some degree and I was planning on adding 3psi and taking off a random 1/2 turn of HSC.
    I support EMBA

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeLust View Post
    Reviving this thread to ask for suggestions on tuning. I'm looking to raise the BB height a little bit to reduce pedal strikes. If I put more PSI in the shock and reduce sag, should I be reducing the damping to ensure I still get full travel?
    Personally, I think you would be better off going a different route. I would go with shorter cranks or lower profile pedals or larger tires or an external headset cup or the higher BB setting and an angle adjusting headset if I wanted more pedal clearance. I wouldn't try to do it with the shock. This all assumes you are in the normal sag range to begin with of course.
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  49. #349
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    +2..

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    Personally, I think you would be better off going a different route. I would go with shorter cranks or lower profile pedals or larger tires or an external headset cup or the higher BB setting and an angle adjusting headset if I wanted more pedal clearance. I wouldn't try to do it with the shock. This all assumes you are in the normal sag range to begin with of course.

  50. #350
    Five5hot
    Reputation: RyeBokeh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    236
    I apologize if this has been covered already but from my understanding the DBair and DBair CS have the same base tunes? So when I received my Knolly Spec'd DBair it came with a base tune card insert. I compared it to Cane Creek's website recommendations and it's different?! So..... what should I go by?

    Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-img_2012.jpg

    Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-img_2014.jpg

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