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  1. #101
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    For reference Cane Creek has a site with the base tune for the DB Air on its website: Cane Creek DBAIR Suspension Base Tunes I rode a Chilcotin with these settings and it felt pretty darn good!

  2. #102
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    Is everyone setting sag with all settings full open or with compression and rebound adjustments made first? I went for an XCish ride yesterday and hated how this shock felt climbing. It seemed really squatty/wallowy climbing. It would squat about 1/3 the way into the travel then seemed to hit a platform. If I would stand and climb it would blow past that point and bounced all over the place. I bumbed LSC up a bit and then it really started suffering on techincal square edge features getting hung up way more than I've come to expect out of a Knolly. All in all, it reminded me very much of an RP23 climbing which I hate. Decending it was much better but not to the extent that it was worth the sufferfest on the way up. Maybe this thing is just more of a shuttlebike/DH shock than I was expecting? FWIW I started with sag around 25% then dialed in the settings from full open, if anything I would thing adjusting first would lead to me running less psi which seems like would be even worse climbing. Any thoughts?
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  3. #103
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    catch22, please get the shock dialed for climbing corner canyon, and bombing local DH chunk, then report back. I'll have mine built up in a few weeks and would rather let you go through the sufferfest...

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Is everyone setting sag with all settings full open or with compression and rebound adjustments made first? I went for an XCish ride yesterday and hated how this shock felt climbing. It seemed really squatty/wallowy climbing. It would squat about 1/3 the way into the travel then seemed to hit a platform. If I would stand and climb it would blow past that point and bounced all over the place. I bumbed LSC up a bit and then it really started suffering on techincal square edge features getting hung up way more than I've come to expect out of a Knolly. All in all, it reminded me very much of an RP23 climbing which I hate. Decending it was much better but not to the extent that it was worth the sufferfest on the way up. Maybe this thing is just more of a shuttlebike/DH shock than I was expecting? FWIW I started with sag around 25% then dialed in the settings from full open, if anything I would thing adjusting first would lead to me running less psi which seems like would be even worse climbing. Any thoughts?
    I don't think it matters where the nobs are for setting sag. I may be wrong though. I made settings on my shock and played with sag after. I run more sag too. Like 35%. For me, this shock seems to get hung up a little on square edges going slow. It is a small price to pay for the good feel of high speed bumps though. On climbs, I don't really wallow at all. I actually climb so much more efficient on this shock than what it did with the rp23.
    Just set the shock to the suggested settings and set the sag. Then on rides, play with one adjustment at a time to hone it in. It can be overwhelming and confusing if you do several adjustments at once on rides. It takes time. Don't get frustrated. My bike feels good right now and I know I still have small adjustments needing to be made. I just don't think you are going to get proper settings on that shock with that 25% sag though.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    catch22, please get the shock dialed for climbing corner canyon, and bombing local DH chunk, then report back. I'll have mine built up in a few weeks and would rather let you go through the sufferfest...
    +1!!!

    catch22: I think you might need more sag as FNG suggested. Here is Noel's advice. I know you read this a while ago but it might be worth a re-read. Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread

    Noel has too much Knollyage for one person. He's like the Francis Bacon (mmm... BACON!) of mountain biking. He needs to be duplicated so he can finish everything on his plate (abstract pun intended).
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  6. #106
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    RS and Fox hardware will not work on the top end...

    To anyone thinking of switching hardware possibly based on my earlier posts where I was having problems with slop and play with the originally CC hardware:

    Did this today using RS hardware in an attempt to fix the slop the CC hardware was causing. It looked like it all fit together fine when I installed it, but I heard a squeak a few times on the ride today, and the hardware was the only thing I'd changed. So when I got home and took it apart and saw this. Looking at it off the bike, I realized the left and right reducer didn't sit flush with the bushing axle in place. Fox hardware is the same, sits flush until you put the axle through, then it does not

    It's my fault but I'm still pissed. I SWEAR I checked it out with the axle in place before I mounted it, but obviously not. The other side is gouged up too, but only about a 1/4 of the circle, not the whole thing. I'm sure it's superficial, but annoying.

    Just a word of warning. RS/Fox hardware works fine on the bottom end. It's only that top end where the adjusters are that are the problem since there isn't a large flat area for the reducers to sit against.

    That is all folks, I'm going to go beat my head against a wall some more...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-imag0245.jpg  

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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    To anyone thinking of switching hardware possibly based on my earlier posts where I was having problems with slop and play with the originally CC hardware:

    Did this today using RS hardware in an attempt to fix the slop the CC hardware was causing. It looked like it all fit together fine when I installed it, but I heard a squeak a few times on the ride today, and the hardware was the only thing I'd changed. So when I got home and took it apart and saw this. Looking at it off the bike, I realized the left and right reducer didn't sit flush with the bushing axle in place. Fox hardware is the same, sits flush until you put the axle through, then it does not

    It's my fault but I'm still pissed. I SWEAR I checked it out with the axle in place before I mounted it, but obviously not. The other side is gouged up too, but only about a 1/4 of the circle, not the whole thing. I'm sure it's superficial, but annoying.

    Just a word of warning. RS/Fox hardware works fine on the bottom end. It's only that top end where the adjusters are that are the problem since there isn't a large flat area for the reducers to sit against.

    That is all folks, I'm going to go beat my head against a wall some more...
    Sux dude. Way too much money for that shock to be playing around with non-specific hardware. I have no issues at all with the hardware on my CCDB. If I did, I would drop a line to Cane Creek, as i hear, they have really good CS. Hopefully you can get it worked out.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Sux dude. Way too much money for that shock to be playing around with non-specific hardware. I have no issues at all with the hardware on my CCDB. If I did, I would drop a line to Cane Creek, as i hear, they have really good CS. Hopefully you can get it worked out.
    Yeah, if I hadn't had the exact same issue with two different sets of Cane Creek hardware I wouldn't have even tried it. They do have great CS, but since I've gone and eff'd it up, I'm not sure what they will do at this point. And a new upper bridge can't be cheap.

    Hopefully it's just superficial, but I'll ping Garry @ CC tomorrow and see what he says.
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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Yeah, if I hadn't had the exact same issue with two different sets of Cane Creek hardware I wouldn't have even tried it. They do have great CS, but since I've gone and eff'd it up, I'm not sure what they will do at this point. And a new upper bridge can't be cheap.

    Hopefully it's just superficial, but I'll ping Garry @ CC tomorrow and see what he says.
    Good Luck Ryan - sorry to hear and see the agony!!!

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Good Luck Ryan - sorry to hear and see the agony!!!
    Thanks Jamie.

    The only thing that really makes me feel better is the fact there hardware wasn't working and was causing an issue, and I was only trying to fix it.

    Not like I eff'd it up being stupid and not trying to used the correct parts, etc. I'll email Malcolm tonight or tomrorow and see what they can do. I think he's still head of all things CCDB and Gary's the headset guy.
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Thanks Jamie.

    The only thing that really makes me feel better is the fact there hardware wasn't working and was causing an issue, and I was only trying to fix it.

    Not like I eff'd it up being stupid and not trying to used the correct parts, etc. I'll email Malcolm tonight or tomrorow and see what they can do. I think he's still head of all things CCDB and Gary's the headset guy.
    No issues using the Fox two piece hardware on my upper shock mount... 3 piece on the lower. I just went out and checked it and all is fine.

  12. #112
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    Complete 180 for me on the DBAir today, spent a good hour playing with settings, sag, etc and it was absolutely fantastic for four laps on Arcylon tonight, stoked!!! Ended up really liking it at 145psi and my riding weight is about 190. Not sure exactly where that put sag, probably in the 30-33% range. I think one issue I may have been having was expecting the 25 clicks and 4 turns of adjustment they list, mine have 30 clicks each and 5 full rotations so when I backed everything to completely open to start and then went with the recommended number of turns/clicks from there I wasn't nearly as far into the adjustments as I thought. Tonight it climbed really well and was insanely nice on the downhills. I'll post up more info if anyone has any questions, wants advice, or I get more ride time in.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Complete 180 for me on the DBAir today, spent a good hour playing with settings, sag, etc and it was absolutely fantastic for four laps on Arcylon tonight, stoked!!! Ended up really liking it at 145psi and my riding weight is about 190. Not sure exactly where that put sag, probably in the 30-33% range. I think one issue I may have been having was expecting the 25 clicks and 4 turns of adjustment they list, mine have 30 clicks each and 5 full rotations so when I backed everything to completely open to start and then went with the recommended number of turns/clicks from there I wasn't nearly as far into the adjustments as I thought. Tonight it climbed really well and was insanely nice on the downhills. I'll post up more info if anyone has any questions, wants advice, or I get more ride time in.
    I'm super happy for you! (And for me, and all those others that can use your info.) Thanks for the info about the extra clicks. How many clicks did ultimately end up with (from full open) with "extra tunable" shock (I'll assume/pretend that the extra clicks are a product enhancement)?
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Is everyone setting sag with all settings full open or with compression and rebound adjustments made first? I went for an XCish ride yesterday and hated how this shock felt climbing. It seemed really squatty/wallowy climbing. It would squat about 1/3 the way into the travel then seemed to hit a platform. If I would stand and climb it would blow past that point and bounced all over the place. I bumbed LSC up a bit and then it really started suffering on techincal square edge features getting hung up way more than I've come to expect out of a Knolly. All in all, it reminded me very much of an RP23 climbing which I hate. Decending it was much better but not to the extent that it was worth the sufferfest on the way up. Maybe this thing is just more of a shuttlebike/DH shock than I was expecting? FWIW I started with sag around 25% then dialed in the settings from full open, if anything I would thing adjusting first would lead to me running less psi which seems like would be even worse climbing. Any thoughts?
    Sag should be set with the dampening fully open. Otherwise you can end up with the dampening supporting the rider weight and not the spring. This can result in less spring pressure than what you should be using. It sounds like that may be the case based on what you are describing.
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    Sag should be set with the dampening fully open. Otherwise you can end up with the dampening supporting the rider weight and not the spring. This can result in less spring pressure than what you should be using. It sounds like that may be the case based on what you are describing.
    Spring?
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Spring?
    Air spring.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I'm super happy for you! (And for me, and all those others that can use your info.) Thanks for the info about the extra clicks. How many clicks did ultimately end up with (from full open) with "extra tunable" shock (I'll assume/pretend that the extra clicks are a product enhancement)?
    After dialing all four dials to full open and counting clicks and turns all the way to full closed I went with the assumption that I've got 2-3 extra clicks on each end of the low speed asjustments and an extra half turn on each end of the high speed. Whether that is actually true or not I don't know, I'm turning the dials until I start feeling some resistance at each end not really a hard stop as I've heard in the past that those adjusters can snap things internally if pushed too far. When adjusting I started with a half turn in on each of the high speed and 2 clicks on each of the low and then just used the recommended Chilcotin tune settings off Cane Creek's site from there. I ened up at 145psi and geared up I'm likely around 190lbs. Measuring sag I'm in the 17mm-18mm range from outer edge of the blue seal to the inner edge of the o ring so that's going to be in the 32-34% range if you factor a 57mm stroke. Initially I was running closer to 14mm/25% sag and that coupled with all my base settings dialed in lower than I thought made for a pretty unruly ride.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  18. #118
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    That's probably about the right PSI. I'm about 220 RTR and use 150psi. That gets me 20mm of sag. That's with a full 2L of water in the pack, fyi.
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  19. #119
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    I had my CCDB on my old DT - it was a 2007 model with the spherical bushings.
    For the 10 Delirium, I had it sent back to CC for the valve update, a rebuild and to change the mount (no more spherical bushing - which I liked) to the solid bushing style, which was required on the new D. I use the same hardware as you have shown and have not had any problem with the inner rubber o-ring in the 2+ years I have been running the frame.

    Is there lube on the o-ring, and if so does this make it better or worse?

    Good luck

    michael
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  20. #120
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    I remember something regarding the knob range issues on the CC.

    Most suspension seems to count clicks/turns from full closed with a bit of play in the full open position, ie 20 clicks of range but actually at 18 you are full open, so the last 2 do nothing.

    Now from what I remember the CCDB shocks are the reverse. They should always be set from full open as there is a bit of play at full closed. So for 20 clicks of range from full open, at 18 you are fully closed and the last 2 do nothing...

    michael
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Complete 180 for me on the DBAir today.
    Good news...keep the updates coming. I am swaying and bending under all this pressure. More positive news will send me over the edge for sure!
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.N.G View Post
    Air spring.

    Thanks. I was wondering if there was a spring internally.

    I have a question for you shock gurus: I thought that damping (LSC/HSC) increased resistance to compression but did not change the steady state. In other words, the sag will always go to the same place when the same amount of weight is applied. It will just take longer to get to the same sag when dampening is added. How am I misunderstanding things?
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    I had my CCDB on my old DT - it was a 2007 model with the spherical bushings.
    For the 10 Delirium, I had it sent back to CC for the valve update, a rebuild and to change the mount (no more spherical bushing - which I liked) to the solid bushing style, which was required on the new D. I use the same hardware as you have shown and have not had any problem with the inner rubber o-ring in the 2+ years I have been running the frame.

    Is there lube on the o-ring, and if so does this make it better or worse?

    Good luck

    michael
    Nope, dry as a bone no lube. I talked to Malcolm and he said he'd seen this once before, where the eyelet alignment was off. It's going back to them tomorrow.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Nope, dry as a bone no lube. I talked to Malcolm and he said he'd seen this once before, where the eyelet alignment was off. It's going back to them tomorrow.
    I hope I'm not having the same problem as you. My reducers wore out already with only about 1.5 months of riding. More play that I've ever had on worn reducers. I have 2 sets on order from CC.

    I loved the spherical bearings they used to have. Never a problem. Every fox and RS Shock I've ever owned I'd wear through them pretty quickly.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I hope I'm not having the same problem as you. My reducers wore out already with only about 1.5 months of riding. More play that I've ever had on worn reducers. I have 2 sets on order from CC.

    I loved the spherical bearings they used to have. Never a problem. Every fox and RS Shock I've ever owned I'd wear through them pretty quickly.
    Are these reducers mandatory for mounting this shock or are you guys doing some tweaking?

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