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  1. #201
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    So what's sitting right against the eyelet DU bushing, the rubber washer, or a super thin alum spacer?
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    So what's sitting right against the eyelet DU bushing, the rubber washer, or a super thin alum spacer?
    Rubber washer, just like the original hardware. So far, it is staying in place and everything is tight.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    HSR - 3 clicks slower from recommended
    Thanks for the info. Two quick questions:

    1) By "3 clicks" do you mean 1/2 a turn?

    2) Am I right to assume that you added to the HSR setting? (0 turns of HSR is "Lively Pop" and 4 turns is "G-out Control" according to the CC website.)
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Thanks for the info. Two quick questions:

    1) By "3 clicks" do you mean 1/2 a turn?

    2) Am I right to assume that you added to the HSR setting? (0 turns of HSR is "Lively Pop" and 4 turns is "G-out Control" according to the CC website.)
    1) Yes
    2) Yes, I turned it clockwise i.e. added more dampening i.e. made it slower

  5. #205
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    Got it! Thanks!!!

    Guess who's been avoiding work today?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-woodyak-settings-small.jpg  

    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  6. #206
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    I just noticed on the Cane Creek website, that the setting have changed from they were last time I checked, and where this thread started off. Before LSC was at 10, and LSR was at 13. What changed?


  7. #207
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    So I see the base tune charts at Cane Creek the 2013 Chilli has a recommendation of 17 clicks of LSR compared to the 2012 model 12 clicks.
    What gives ? Have I missed a newly designed Chilli coming out?

  8. #208
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    It might not be the frame but a revised shock.

    Just a thought.

  9. #209
    TSC
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    No problem. I actually enjoy suspension tuning. That's why the CCDB is THEE shock for me.

    I don't actually know the numbers as I go by feel. If I were to guess I'd say:

    Sag - 37%
    LSC - 4 clicks less from recommended
    HSC - 1/2 to 1/4 turn from fully off
    LSR - 1 click slower from recommended
    HSR - 3 clicks slower from recommended
    Update: I've mostly been boon-docking at low speeds (through downed trees on deer trails) so I haven't had many runs on high-speed bumps, but the few I've had, have been great with your settings. The back of my bike just disappears. The only way I know it's rough is because I can't get my fork dialed in as well.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  10. #210
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    For those that care there is a new high-volume inner air sleeve available for the CCDB Air that will aid in tuning and getting full use of travel on progressive suspension platforms. This should allow riders to run less sag and give more tuning options... here's some more information from NSMB:

    CaneCreek Double Barrel Air Owners! - North Shore Mountain Biking Forums

  11. #211
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    very interested to hear some real-world experiences with that update.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    For those that care there is a new high-volume inner air sleeve available for the CCDB Air that will aid in tuning and getting full use of travel on progressive suspension platforms. This should allow riders to run less sag and give more tuning options... here's some more information from NSMB:

    CaneCreek Double Barrel Air Owners! - North Shore Mountain Biking Forums
    does the Chili need this? Seems like it will be better suited for the Mojo HDs and the likes? Any thoughts? If someone tries it on Chili, let us know. I wouldn't mind using less sag and getting as much shock travel on my chili.

  13. #213
    fat & decripit old guy
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    I take my shock in on the 10th to get the new air can
    Right now with 30% sag I have a 5" travel Chilcotin.
    Hope that this will make a big improvement in the usable travel.
    I now will have to go through the whole tuning process again; I assume.

  14. #214
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    Any word on cost ? Just spent a few days in Moab and Grand Junction and needed 40% sag to get full travel on TWE.

  15. #215
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    would be interested in hearing real-world experiences as well. I wonder if it could potentially make the shock "wallow"? I like the way the shock feels now and wouldn't mind getting more travel but not at the expense of how great the mid-stroke support is.

  16. #216
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    I´ll suppose this new inner sleeve is solution for those riders not managed to use full stroke with any usable airpressure / sag. Those channels allowing airflow between sleeves, has been rather small in original version and if not prefectly aligned, too tight - causing shock uncapable to use full air volume. Based on pics taken from new version, channels are clearly larger.

    I´m curious too to read further experiences, not going to test that myself - there`s no such problem with my shock.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Got it! Thanks!!!

    Guess who's been avoiding work today?
    That's awesome thanks for that. I'm gonna give that a try. I got mine on the stock settings as seen in the picture. Feels good but i think it can be a bit better.

    Question:
    - whilst pedalling slowly seated or climbing, as i hit a square edge it doesn't roll over smoothly but rather gets slightly hooked up on it making me use alittle more pedalling force to overcome this. How do i adjust it so that i can roll over this more smoothly?

    My friends got the ccdb coil and when i ride his one it just rolls over these square edges really easily.

  18. #218
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    hey i just want to be sure. What do you guys in mm measure the shock stroke to be for the chilli?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-screen-shot-2012-10-03-9.16.25-pm.jpg  


  19. #219
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    New air can cost = $00.00

    shock stroke x .3 = 30% sag
    .25 = 25% sag

    For me 57 x .3 = 17mm on the shock (like you can measure the .1 on the bike) for those who will be anal.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    That's awesome thanks for that. I'm gonna give that a try. I got mine on the stock settings as seen in the picture. Feels good but i think it can be a bit better.

    Question:
    - whilst pedalling slowly seated or climbing, as i hit a square edge it doesn't roll over smoothly but rather gets slightly hooked up on it making me use alittle more pedalling force to overcome this. How do i adjust it so that i can roll over this more smoothly?

    My friends got the ccdb coil and when i ride his one it just rolls over these square edges really easily.
    I had the same problem and solved it by adding LSC.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    That's awesome thanks for that. I'm gonna give that a try. I got mine on the stock settings as seen in the picture. Feels good but i think it can be a bit better.

    Question:
    - whilst pedalling slowly seated or climbing, as i hit a square edge it doesn't roll over smoothly but rather gets slightly hooked up on it making me use alittle more pedalling force to overcome this. How do i adjust it so that i can roll over this more smoothly?

    My friends got the ccdb coil and when i ride his one it just rolls over these square edges really easily.
    Try slowing down your HSR. I've found that sharp hits like that are generally a high-speed event. Slowing down the HSR should help absorb those hits better.

    If you are pedalling REALY slowly and you run into that I'd say your running too little sag or too much LSC

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    That's awesome thanks for that. I'm gonna give that a try. I got mine on the stock settings as seen in the picture. Feels good but i think it can be a bit better.

    Question:
    - whilst pedalling slowly seated or climbing, as i hit a square edge it doesn't roll over smoothly but rather gets slightly hooked up on it making me use alittle more pedalling force to overcome this. How do i adjust it so that i can roll over this more smoothly?

    My friends got the ccdb coil and when i ride his one it just rolls over these square edges really easily.
    I think you're going to have a hard time getting any air shock to behave as well as a coil-over shock. (If you notice, the highest praise for an air shock is that it behaves like a coil shock.) In essence, coil-over shocks have an additional tuning feature (the coil). Air shocks are a trade-off--you give up the extra "tunability" for weight savings.

    IMO, even square edges at low speed are going to be managed more by the LSC circuit on the DBair. As noted by CC in their graph, there is a tradeoff between pedaling efficiency and supple response. I rode the Wasatch Crest Trail the other day and while ascending "Puke Hill" I noticed much more bob in the back shock so you might not want to back off the LSC all the way to 11. And, I've wondered (i.e. haven't played with it yet) if adjusting HSC all the way to .25 is too far. (In a post somewhere, someone had the HSC all the way to 0 and Noel had said that wasn't good.)

    Keep in mind, the post of mine you referenced is a set up that is much more for down hill, which I ride most of the time. It works quite well on the downs, but you sacrifice on the ups.

    Hope this helps!

    Chime in anyone if I'm overstating/oversimplifying or you disagree.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by material guy View Post
    New air can cost = $00.00
    Where do we sign up?
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    hey i just want to be sure. What do you guys in mm measure the shock stroke to be for the chilli?
    1) I measured the overall length of the shaft when unweighted. Call it Unweighted_Shaft_Length.
    2) I figured the amount the shaft will shrink when my sag is correct by multiplying 57 (the shaft stroke length) by the desired sag. Call it Desired_Sag_Length.
    3) I then subtract Desired_Sag_Length (#2) from Unweighted_Shaft_Length (#1) and got the amount of shaft that will be exposed when setting the sag. Call it Visible_Shaft_With_Sag.
    4) I then made a little plastic piece that is that is Visible_Shaft_With_Sag (#3) long and just use it to check of set my sag.

    This method works well if I want to verify my settings before a ride or if I wan to set my bike up for someone else to ride.

    Visible_Shaft_With_Sag = Unweighted_Shaft_Length - Desired_Sag_Length
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  25. #225
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    in other words 30% = 17mm, 33% = 19mm and 37% = 21mm measured lengths including seals.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I think you're going to have a hard time getting any air shock to behave as well as a coil-over shock. (If you notice, the highest praise for an air shock is that it behaves like a coil shock.) In essence, coil-over shocks have an additional tuning feature (the coil). Air shocks are a trade-off--you give up the extra "tunability" for weight savings.

    IMO, even square edges at low speed are going to be managed more by the LSC circuit on the DBair. As noted by CC in their graph, there is a tradeoff between pedaling efficiency and supple response. I rode the Wasatch Crest Trail the other day and while ascending "Puke Hill" I noticed much more bob in the back shock so you might not want to back off the LSC all the way to 11. And, I've wondered (i.e. haven't played with it yet) if adjusting HSC all the way to .25 is too far. (In a post somewhere, someone had the HSC all the way to 0 and Noel had said that wasn't good.)

    Keep in mind, the post of mine you referenced is a set up that is much more for down hill, which I ride most of the time. It works quite well on the downs, but you sacrifice on the ups.

    Hope this helps!

    Chime in anyone if I'm overstating/oversimplifying or you disagree.
    TSC...I had a feeling you were going to come back with a "sacrifice on the uphills" after tuning your shock to Woodyaks settings. I'm in the same boat, however, as I like to make the suspension extremely plush and live for the downhills. I definitely climb well on this set up, but I have to work harder at it to have the exceptional ride down. Part of me thinks I would have been better off with a coil..."F" the weight.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post

    So, the first question is (before even considering tuning this shock): "Is this the right product for me?"

    This question is a difficult one and it's also why the CCDB-Air is not the only shock that we sell with the Chilcotin frame.

    This is why we offer 3 shock options for the Chilcotin: the RP23 (HV can), the CCDB-Air and the CCDB-Coil. The fact is that for a large percentage of our customers, the RP23 will be the best shock choice: it's lightweight, reliable, works really well in almost situations, can be ridden surprisingly aggressively and is very easy to setup.
    Although my ego tells me I can tune and use a CCDB Air to its full potential I suspect I'm probably a RP23 guy who wouldn't notice a real difference.

    Good points!...
    Safe riding,

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  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    Part of me thinks I would have been better off with a coil..."F" the weight.
    I used to be "air all the way" but I've started re-evaluating the tradeoffs, in the same way I did when I bought my KS Lev--sure it's heavier but it is worth it to me. Since, like you, I love the DH I'm willing to have a bit more pain on the ups to have a bigger smile during the DH. Besides, I rarely "earn" all the elevation I burn (read: I shuttle a lot ).

    Probably, the clincher was when I saw muttonchops and tisser, who are heavy into the ups, go coil for the added ride benefits. Friday, I got a Van RC off of ebay and will have Craig at Avalanche do his magic. I think it is the only way to get the best of all worlds, excluding weight of course.

    I will hold onto my DBair for until next year as a backup; but, from what rsceciel007 has told me, I won't want to switch back.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    1) I measured the overall length of the shaft when unweighted. Call it Unweighted_Shaft_Length.
    2) I figured the amount the shaft will shrink when my sag is correct by multiplying 57 (the shaft stroke length) by the desired sag. Call it Desired_Sag_Length.
    3) I then subtract Desired_Sag_Length (#2) from Unweighted_Shaft_Length (#1) and got the amount of shaft that will be exposed when setting the sag. Call it Visible_Shaft_With_Sag.
    4) I then made a little plastic piece that is that is Visible_Shaft_With_Sag (#3) long and just use it to check of set my sag.

    This method works well if I want to verify my settings before a ride or if I wan to set my bike up for someone else to ride.

    Visible_Shaft_With_Sag = Unweighted_Shaft_Length - Desired_Sag_Length
    nice good idea i might make my own little measuring device. I've been just eyeballing it

  30. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    I had the same problem and solved it by adding LSC.
    I find that the pedalling uphill platform for chilli with ccdb air is superb. Does not bob, very efficient, very happy.

    I will add more LSC and see if i get the same result as you. That of not hooking up on square edges while climbing.

    Was wondering though what's the reasoning behind it? Thought that if i backed off the LSC it'd be more plush? I'll tinker with it and report back, thanks.

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    I find that the pedalling uphill platform for chilli with ccdb air is superb. Does not bob, very efficient, very happy.

    I will add more LSC and see if i get the same result as you. That of not hooking up on square edges while climbing.

    Was wondering though what's the reasoning behind it? Thought that if i backed off the LSC it'd be more plush? I'll tinker with it and report back, thanks.
    mine bobs uphill.
    what is your RTR weight and how much psi did u have and what is your LSC setting ?

    i am 186 lbs RTR. i have 150 psi. i followed the base tunes and have 15 clicks of LSC

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastug View Post
    mine bobs uphill.
    what is your RTR weight and how much psi did u have and what is your LSC setting ?

    i am 186 lbs RTR. i have 150 psi. i followed the base tunes and have 15 clicks of LSC
    What's your definition of bob? Are you comparing against a hard-tail or against another full-suspension setup?

    My RTR weight is 210 lbs. With 145 psi (about 33% sag) and the stock tune (i.e. 15 clicks of LSC) I found bobbing to be minimal--similar to what I've gotten with pro-pedal on a dw-link bike. I was incredibly shocked that it was such a solid platform.

    EDIT
    A couple of things worth mentioning:

    -- I do most of my climbing while seated and use a low gear and "spin". (That's the reference for the statement above.)
    -- When I do get out of the saddle I am trying to clear obstacles and like to be able to load/unload the back end, so what you are experiencing might be what I consider as favorable.
    -- Your sock psi seems rather high. Noel wrote the following:

    Personally, I'm about 215 nekkid and I was initially using around 145 - 155 psi and ended up around the latter. At about 180 lbs body weight, you will probably be in the 135 psi range.
    Last edited by TSC; 10-03-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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  33. #233
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    Originally Posted by material guy
    New air can cost = $00.00
    Where do we sign up?
    __________________
    I have ADHD and OCD which makes me obsessively fixated on the things I like, while ignoring everything else.

    Go to the link at post # 214.

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by material guy View Post
    Originally Posted by material guy
    New air can cost = $00.00
    Where do we sign up?
    __________________
    I have ADHD and OCD which makes me obsessively fixated on the things I like, while ignoring everything else.

    Go to the link at post # 214.
    Cane Creek is supplying the parts for the upgrade for free. My shock was due for a service anyway so I sent it to SuspensionWerx in Vancouver. I think if you call CC they will hook you up with the parts.

  35. #235
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    Thanks!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  36. #236
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    I just spoke with Cane Creek and they said that they can send the new air canister to any service center for no charge for parts (there might be a service charge). On the East Coast of the USA they work at least with Suspension Experts.

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    thanks.

  38. #238
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    High flow air can

    Went for my first ride with the new high flow air can.
    30% sag, this is not the same shock!
    As I figured the old settings were not close,
    Old: hsc 0.5, hsr 1.0, lsc 5 clicks for dwn & 7 clicks for up, lsr 8 clicks.
    New: hsc 1.0, hsr 1.5, lsc 12 clicks, lsr 10 clicks.

    How smooth the shock was blew me away! I even had to do a miner tune to my lyrik so it would come close to feeling balanced. I was worried that it would have the mid travel wallow but the shock would have none of that.

    It was a very wet ride ( my first wet of the year ) so I did not push things too much but my first impression was nothing but stellar performance from this thing.

    Now very glad that I kept this shock; I almost gave it back to Noel cause I was not happy with how it was working. I could only get 5" travel on a 6.3" travel bike. I would also get some spiking out of the back end which is now non existent.
    Almost used all of the travel to boot.

    Pic after my ride today. Could not get the lens free of water, so blurry pic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-knolly.jpg  

    Last edited by material guy; 10-22-2012 at 06:20 PM.

  39. #239
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    Wink DB Air vs. erection

    From pinkbike's Cane Creek - Ask Us Anything live question-and-answer session.

    Answer by Holly Colson - Dir of marketing

    Q: Why is the DBAir the best shock ever, and what seat can you potentially recommend to coincide with the constant erection I get from using this awesome shock?

    A: I actually have a canned response for this, we get it so often.....we recommend the Hobson Easy Seat.
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  40. #240
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    I should be getting my CCDB Air back from Dirt Labs today outfitted with the new air can. From the review above I am excited!!! I will post back with a review after some riding this weekend.

    About that seat, that would kind of make it hard to get forward on the nose for steep climbing sections.

  41. #241
    fat & decripit old guy
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    Climb? steep?

    Oh you mean go down steep

  42. #242
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    Marerial guy , your new settings are are very much the same as mine, but my shock is in standard
    setting from factory, never had any issues, it's worked flawless from day one.
    Just curious if the problems people are having with this shock is due to lighter body weights?

  43. #243
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    What is the new air can? Can somebody explain please.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by material guy View Post
    Went for my first ride with the new high flow air can.
    30% sag, this is not the same shock!
    As I figured the old settings were not close,
    Old: hsc 0.5, hsr 1.0, lsc 5 clicks for dwn & 7 clicks for up, lsr 8 clicks.
    New: hsc 1.0, hsr 1.5, lsc 10 clicks, lsr 12 clicks.

    How smooth the shock was blew me away! I even had to do a miner tune to my lyrik so it would come close to feeling balanced. I was worried that it would have the mid travel wallow but the shock would have none of that.

    It was a very wet ride ( my first wet of the year ) so I did not push things too much but my first impression was nothing but stellar performance from this thing.

    Now very glad that I kept this shock; I almost gave it back to Noel cause I was not happy with how it was working. I could only get 5" travel on a 6.3" travel bike. I would also get some spiking out of the back end which is now non existent.
    Almost used all of the travel to boot.

    Pic after my ride today. Could not get the lens free of water, so blurry pic.
    I’m glad to here the new can fixes the problems with the shock.
    The spiking toward the end of the travel was starting to drive me nuts.

    Thanks for posting this I was getting ready to order a new shock from Avalanche. Now I can spend the money on my fork.

  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by geo025 View Post
    Marerial guy , your new settings are are very much the same as mine, but my shock is in standard
    setting from factory, never had any issues, it's worked flawless from day one.
    Just curious if the problems people are having with this shock is due to lighter body weights?
    Just for reference, I'm 5'8, well almost, and my slim, fragile.......Mmmmmmm...(sorry got distracted rubbing my belly after shoveling the boston cream down my throat.) princess like figure is 190 to 195 rtr.

    As I under stand, not all of the DBair's had the air flow problem between the two chambers.
    Mine just happened to be one of the few that this was an issue with.

  46. #246
    fat & decripit old guy
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    Back reading in this forum, I understand that some users backed out the LS knobs too far & had to send the shock in for early service.
    My solution for this is to use a small cheap socket to turn the knob with my fingers. You can feel the indents easier as well as feel the end stops. Always keep it in my pocket.
    Just a simple tip.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    What is the new air can? Can somebody explain please.
    There is a new inner air can for the DB-air that solves the lack of travel issue and spiking that some people were having.

    The high volume inner air can will allow bikes that are more progressive to get full travel / be ridden with less sag and still get full travel.

    The high volume inner air cab will allow increased tune-ability on bikes that are less progressive, where now the CCDB Air is generally being run without tuning bands.
    You can see it here.

    CaneCreek Double Barrel Air Owners! - North Shore Mountain Biking Forums

  48. #248
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    mbikerguy, thanks. I'll contact the UK service center and see what arrangements they have for doing this modification.

  49. #249
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    I got my DBAir back from Dirt Labs with the new air can and a full service, took the bike out for a ride and it felt ... exactly the same. Moreover, I am still not able to use the full travel. I had Dirt Labs configure the DB Air to the recommended setting for the Chilcotin (figured that was a good starting point) and am running 140psi for the air spring. I am 185 (in my birthday suit) and this yields about a 30% sag. It feels wonderful on the trail, but its only using 2/3 of the stroke on the shock.

    For the test ride, I went into AF Canyon (Wasatch, UT) and rode it 19 miles with 4600' of elevation change. There was plenty of really fast DH to test out the shock. Most of it is very fast with small roots, rocks and drops (small ones about 1-2 feet). There was some larger rocks on part of the trail which I used all of my front travel on. Granted I tend to hit these harder with the front end but I thought I would use more travel with the reworked air can.

    How big of a hit do you need to go off of to get to use all of the travel? Do I just need to take it somewhere bigger (Moab ) to test this or is there something still wrong with my shock?

    Also, I was running 140psi before the rework and was king of expecting to have to change it afterwards. I think it is right as the sag check out, it climbs wonderfully (no wallow), and claws it way over any tech it sees effortlessly. At this point I'm not sure what else to do...

  50. #250
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    Hey Elias, I was getting ready to send mine back to get the new can but after reading your report I'm second guessing if it's worth having the bike down.

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