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  1. #51
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    Shock size is 7.875 x 2.25. I can't remember the spacers. When I can get to my computer or home i will look for you. I know they are 6mm hardware though.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  2. #52
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    OK just dug it up on my phone. Shock hardware is 41.2 x M6 and 22 x M6. Hope that helps.

    I think i have some 22 x M6 fox hardware if you need it off my old RFX. Pretty sure turner used 22.

    Lmk if you do.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  3. #53
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    Are you sure it is 6mm? Did they change it for the Chilcotins? Every other Knolly has always been
    8 x 22mm and 8 x 44mm hardware.

    Buzz

  4. #54
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    That's what I was told by Malcolm at CC.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  5. #55
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    Turner uses 21.85 x M6. There is also a 22.2 out there as well!

  6. #56
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    6mm is correct. I will sadly miss the 8mm on my Endorphin
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  7. #57
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    So then does Cane Creek has it wrong, I assume?
    Look at the mounting dimensions for the double barrels for the 2012 Chilcotin (for which the CCDB/Air is also an OEM shock).

  8. #58
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    Mistakes happen....

    When you are selecting the year of Chilco, click on 2011. The dimensions are correct on that page. It is NOT a 8.5 x 2.5.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyN View Post
    Posted on the Intense forum

    "I heard today through the grapevine from a source I trust that there may be some issues with the CCDB Air from the factory that are causing the end stroke travel issues. Apparently more information is forthcoming and I will report back when I have some solid data. Cane Creek will NOT respond to any of my requests for information at the moment. Maybe they are busy...."
    I stopped reading after "heard - source - grapevine - trust".
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp806 View Post
    So then does Cane Creek has it wrong, I assume?
    Look at the mounting dimensions for the double barrels for the 2012 Chilcotin (for which the CCDB/Air is also an OEM shock).
    This is wrong. I will email Malcolm.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  11. #61
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    I thought so Dusty.
    We should leave our 9-5 work habits out of the weekend, especially when bike riding/reading, but the QA engineer in me, just couldn't let it go...

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    I stopped reading after "heard - source - grapevine - trust".
    Really? You can believe what you want but the issues with the DB air are real and not imagination. Otherwise you wouldn't have a thread in nearly every manufacturers forum regarding the inability to access full travel regardless of frame design.

    I posted up this information in the Intense forum and its not based on my assumptions, but it came straight from a respected suspension tuner on the west coast. This is not about dragging Cane Creek through the mud but all about getting to the bottom of the issues at hand, nothing more.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    This is wrong. I will email Malcolm.
    dusty, any chance to get him to implement the settings of all the other knolly frames on their site too? would be great

  14. #64
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    This just showed up today...

    Yesterday starts tomorrow, tomorrow starts today, and the problem seems to be we're picking up the pieces on the ricochet

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I wonder if the frames coming with DB Air's will come with the little adjuster tool and the spacers? I'm guessing probably not, that's just for aftermarket?
    For 2012 models, the Double Barrel damper adjuster tool is supposed to be included in the package:

    Cane Creek Double Barrel Coil Rear Shock 2012 - BMTBonline.com

  16. #66
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    FYI, the shock does come with the adjustment tool. It's kind of big and it doubles as a bottle opener.

    I setup the shock as per the Setup thread and you guys got it perfect. Slowed both rebounds by one click from the default Chilcotin setup and the shock feels great. Have three rides on the shock now.
    First ride was just a few miles to get used to it, a few < 3' drops just to check out compression.
    Second ride was on rocks/roots all slow (<15 mph) Adjusted rebounds by one click.
    Third ride was same as second except longer and some faster root sections and some berms.

    The shock feels more like a coil than any airshock I've ridden. It has made the Chili feel more like the Endo it replaced. Supple and compliant over the chattery stuff and bottomless feeling on g-outs and landings.

    There has been some talk about the shock not achieving full travel. I haven't got the travel indicator ring all the way to top, but have come very close. It does seem like the shock ramps up at the end, but it hasn't been harsh or even felt like it bottomed yet.

    In a word, the shock is "composed".
    Yesterday starts tomorrow, tomorrow starts today, and the problem seems to be we're picking up the pieces on the ricochet

  17. #67
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    First ride on the Chilly+CCDBA went very well. Amazingly plush for an air shock yet way more composed like a coil. My initial setup was on the soft side with about 40% sag and a little over 100 PSI. It gobbled up hits and felt bottomless. I didn't anything huge but I did hit some 2 or 3' to flat things and some really steep rollers. Definitely using all my travel but no harsh bottom out. I pumped it up to about 130 and that put me around 33% sag. The shock still felt good and it peddled better but I was getting bucked. I dropped it to about 115 PSI and about 37% sag and that seemed to be the sweetspot. It peddled better and still handled the hits real well.

    As far as the adjustments go I added 1 turn of LSC and verified that HSC was all the way out. I plan on playing around with it on today's ride to get it fully dialed in. My only complaint so far would be that it'd be nice to have more HSC adjustment. Having it backed all the way really leaves me w/o any HSC adjustment.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.N.G View Post
    Are all these settings going from fully open or from fully closed? I'm a little confuse on the settings from the first post giving half the settings from fully open and the other half from fully close.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    First ride on the Chilly+CCDBA went very well. Amazingly plush for an air shock yet way more composed like a coil. My initial setup was on the soft side with about 40% sag and a little over 100 PSI. It gobbled up hits and felt bottomless. I didn't anything huge but I did hit some 2 or 3' to flat things and some really steep rollers. Definitely using all my travel but no harsh bottom out. I pumped it up to about 130 and that put me around 33% sag. The shock still felt good and it peddled better but I was getting bucked. I dropped it to about 115 PSI and about 37% sag and that seemed to be the sweetspot. It peddled better and still handled the hits real well.

    As far as the adjustments go I added 1 turn of LSC and verified that HSC was all the way out. I plan on playing around with it on today's ride to get it fully dialed in. My only complaint so far would be that it'd be nice to have more HSC adjustment. Having it backed all the way really leaves me w/o any HSC adjustment.
    Hi Wookyak:

    Trust me on this - you don't want the HSC backed all the way out. The reports that you're seeing online about this are because people are not setting up their shocks properly (i.e. if you're reading this on NSMB). I'm working on a tuning article right now for this shock because a lot of people think that the shock has too much HSC, when in fact, they are blowing through the travel and are being saved by harsh bottom out due to the air spring curve and bumper (which work very, very well even without any HSC).

    I made the exact same mistake when I started tuning the CCDB-Air, so I know exactly where you're coming from.

    Quick set up tips:

    -Get sag roughly set - start around 33 or 35% range. Get the bike's "balance" (i.e. riding level) feeling correct to to help determine the right amount of sag.
    -For HSC: find a small jump - maybe 2 - 4 feet. Hit it with the HSC fully open: you'll feel like the frame is lacking travel. Then, hit it again with the HSC fully closed: the frame will feel like it can't use all of it's travel. Notice how these two effects sound similar but feel different. Now, go back to almost fully open, hit the jump again, then back to almost fully closed. Keep going back and forth towards the middle until you end up with the correct HSC setting. It will now become obvious where the HSC should be set. You may have to adjust air spring pressure a bit here as well, but do one adjustment at a time.

    I'll get a most serious tuning article up shortly but this should provide you with a good start.

    Cheers!
    Noel Buckley
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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    Hi Wookyak:

    Trust me on this - you don't want the HSC backed all the way out. The reports that you're seeing online about this are because people are not setting up their shocks properly (i.e. if you're reading this on NSMB). I'm working on a tuning article right now for this shock because a lot of people think that the shock has too much HSC, when in fact, they are blowing through the travel and are being saved by harsh bottom out due to the air spring curve and bumper (which work very, very well even without any HSC).

    I made the exact same mistake when I started tuning the CCDB-Air, so I know exactly where you're coming from.

    Quick set up tips:

    -Get sag roughly set - start around 33 or 35% range. Get the bike's "balance" (i.e. riding level) feeling correct to to help determine the right amount of sag.
    -For HSC: find a small jump - maybe 2 - 4 feet. Hit it with the HSC fully open: you'll feel like the frame is lacking travel. Then, hit it again with the HSC fully closed: the frame will feel like it can't use all of it's travel. Notice how these two effects sound similar but feel different. Now, go back to almost fully open, hit the jump again, then back to almost fully closed. Keep going back and forth towards the middle until you end up with the correct HSC setting. It will now become obvious where the HSC should be set. You may have to adjust air spring pressure a bit here as well, but do one adjustment at a time.

    I'll get a most serious tuning article up shortly but this should provide you with a good start.

    Cheers!
    Good stuff Noel, I'll be looking forward to the writeup you're working on. All the complaints I've been reading got me concerned enough to order hardware to fit my old Monarch on the Chilcotin as well but it sounds like the concerns may not be necessary. Just want to be prepared with a backup plan in case the DBAir had issues whenever the frame gets here. Hope to catch you down south in a couple weeks!
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    Hi Wookyak:

    Trust me on this - you don't want the HSC backed all the way out. The reports that you're seeing online about this are because people are not setting up their shocks properly (i.e. if you're reading this on NSMB). I'm working on a tuning article right now for this shock because a lot of people think that the shock has too much HSC, when in fact, they are blowing through the travel and are being saved by harsh bottom out due to the air spring curve and bumper (which work very, very well even without any HSC).

    I made the exact same mistake when I started tuning the CCDB-Air, so I know exactly where you're coming from.

    Quick set up tips:

    -Get sag roughly set - start around 33 or 35% range. Get the bike's "balance" (i.e. riding level) feeling correct to to help determine the right amount of sag.
    -For HSC: find a small jump - maybe 2 - 4 feet. Hit it with the HSC fully open: you'll feel like the frame is lacking travel. Then, hit it again with the HSC fully closed: the frame will feel like it can't use all of it's travel. Notice how these two effects sound similar but feel different. Now, go back to almost fully open, hit the jump again, then back to almost fully closed. Keep going back and forth towards the middle until you end up with the correct HSC setting. It will now become obvious where the HSC should be set. You may have to adjust air spring pressure a bit here as well, but do one adjustment at a time.

    I'll get a most serious tuning article up shortly but this should provide you with a good start.

    Cheers!
    Interesting...

    My HSC dial was all the way off shipped. I pretty much left the dials as they were for last night's ride because I didn't have time to mess with them. I did play with the air pressure a bit. I found 30% sag was bucking me around like crazy. I ended up letting out a bunch of air which (unknowingly) put me at 50% sag. It actually rode really well but it did feel very sluggish when pedaling non-tech stuff.

    On today's ride I had time to mess with things. After some trial and error I ended up running about 40% sag (120 psi@155lb. body weight) today with all the dials left at stock except HSC off and LSC backed off a couple of clicks. It pedaled way better and still gobbled up the small and medium hits like they were nothing. I did hit a good 5' drop to semi-flat at speed and it did blow through most of its travel but it didn't bottom out harshly or anything. The ring showed there was about 1/2" of unused stroke after that drop.

    Overall I love how the shock feels so far. Better than pretty much anything I've ridden. I just need to get the sag and compressions settings better dialed. I'll definitely add in some HSC and see where that gets me.

  22. #72
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    I have been running the shock as stock - FWIW we ride fairly slow techy rocky and rooty terrain - it seems to get hung up occasionally on the square edged stuff and requires more body English than I expected to get over some sections...I am a noob with a DB never mind DBair any suggestions on what settings I should fiddle with first? Interestingly coming down the bike is a plow and I am taking more direct lines than I every have...

  23. #73
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    So now that you guys have had a few rides on it does anyone wish they would have gotten the coil? I'm up in the air on the endo frame!

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod View Post
    So now that you guys have had a few rides on it does anyone wish they would have gotten the coil? I'm up in the air on the endo frame!
    Nope! It feels like the frame was designed around the shock. The only thing I have not tested is extended DH runs. I'll get those in 2 weeks.

  25. #75
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    It's really pretty damn amazing. All I've done is add 2 clicks of LSC from the stock settings, and it pedals well and bumps disappear.

    I've had a DB coil on a few frames, so I know what that shock can do, and can't see justifying the extra weight of the coil on a trail bike. On a DH sled, sure maybe go coil. But even then, this feels so good that would be a hard choice, if say, one was to buy a Podium.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    It's really pretty damn amazing. All I've done is add 2 clicks of LSC from the stock settings, and it pedals well and bumps disappear.

    I've had a DB coil on a few frames, so I know what that shock can do, and can't see justifying the extra weight of the coil on a trail bike. On a DH sled, sure maybe go coil. But even then, this feels so good that would be a hard choice, if say, one was to buy a Podium.
    Good to hear!

    Would the DB air work well on the Podium since it is designed for a coil linear shock?

  27. #77
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    I'm not sure, seems like I recall some time ago that Noel said the DB Air would work great on the Podium, but the coil would be the best option to get the best performance out of the frame.

    BUT DON'T QUOTE ME ON THAT, LOL. I just seem to recall him posting something to that effect. I don't know if that's a case of the DB Air get's you 95% performance and the coil gets you 100%, or what.
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  28. #78
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    My wife has one on her Podium, and we have only taken it out a couple of times, but so far so good!

    Buzz

  29. #79
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    Awesome thats what I wanted to hear! I have a CCDB on my Podium, had one on my Endo and also had one on a Gen 1 Nomad. It made a lights out difference on both the Endo and the Nomad. I've never tried anything else on the Podium though I do have a Vivid 4.1 sitting in a box just waiting for Push to get the Team issue back in stock!

    A new Endo with an Air sounds good to me!

  30. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Question for those who have ridden a CCDB and the DBair: are the settings of the shock (LSC/LSR/HSR/HSC) basically the same from CCDB and DBair other than the spring and spring type?

    I ride an AM bike that I plan on using for DH stuff too, but it's not like I'm sending 10 footers or anything anyway, so I'm thinking of lightening up the bike a bit next year.
    The function is the same, but you will probably end up with difference settings between the two.

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Question for those who have ridden a CCDB and the DBair: are the settings of the shock (LSC/LSR/HSR/HSC) basically the same from CCDB and DBair other than the spring and spring type?
    Ive both, CCDB and DB Air and I`ve ridden quite a lot with them in Chili. They are different. Adjustments naturally works in same way, but adjustment ranges with DB Air is huge compared to CCDB - even with same pressure vs. one coil. The biggest difference is LSC, then LSR - there is much more internal compression with CCDB, even in the end of range nearly too much. That`s not a problem with DB Air. This means that similar feeling between those two requires different settings in both.

    My CCDB is tuned one with 350lbs Ti-spring -DB Air is from stock. Ive used some other shocks in Chili too, inc. BOS Vip`r (without and with tuning), RP23 (without and with tuning), Vivid Air etc. and Ive to say that with DB Air adjustments you can mimic behaviour of whatever other shock, inc. feeling of CCDB.

  32. #82
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    Just wondering how everyone is coming along with the DB Air's, thoughts, etc. Loving mine so far, I ran it stock for a few weeks and then added 2 clicks of LSC, it seemed to be wallowing a bit and getting hung up on stuff more than it should have. The 2 clicks helped in that regard.

    Still feels like it sinks a bit more into the travel than I'd like, so I might add a few more clicks LSC just to see what happens. Pretty stoked on it overall.

    I will say I'm not really keen on Cane Creek's 7 piece reducer system. One of the little o-ring washers that sits right next to the shock bushing keeps working it self loose and out of place, and almost works itself onto the reducer itself. Pretty annoying b/c it's creates a bit of play when it does it. I've got two sets of reducer hardware and it does it on both. Really wish CC would just go with a 3 piece reducer system like Fox or Rock Shox.
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  33. #83
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    I just switched my CC reducers for the Fox 3 piece ones... they fit much better.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    I just switched my CC reducers for the Fox 3 piece ones... they fit much better.
    They fit ok? The end of the DB's with the adjustments has a small area for a reducer to sit against. My Rock Shox hardware wouldn't fit there. If the Fox does then that's what I need to go find.
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  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    They fit ok? The end of the DB's with the adjustments has a small area for a reducer to sit against. My Rock Shox hardware wouldn't fit there. If the Fox does then that's what I need to go find.
    I had play with the CC reducers and the Fox ones eliminated this.... I already had the Fox hardware sitting around from my previous shock, so I gave it a try and voila, perfect...

  36. #86
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    Yup, when I stick the reducer pivot axle through the shock bushing, there is a tad bit of play.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  37. #87
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    I am willing and ready, but havent been convinced yet to convert to the CCDB Air. I read the thread posts and thanks for all the feedback.Its really interesting.

    I feel as though injuries and various setbacks have prevented me getting up to full speed this year (so far)...so i havent really noticed the RP23 holding me back yet. Hoping that will change soon.

    i just learnt that a friend received his Chilly with the CCDB Air - so its time to plan a ride together.
    I support EMBA

  38. #88
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    I was incorrect in my earlier post. The RS/Fox hardware won't fit on the OLD Double Barrels. They do not have an area trimmed out to fit the larger diameter of those hardware pieces that hold the o-ring.

    The DB Air on the Chili has this area trimmed away so the RS/Fox hardware will fit. Sorry for the confusion, I just found this out while trying to sort out my issue. The stupid rubber o-ring worked it's way loose again on today's ride, and I've got crazy play again.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by knollybikes.com View Post
    I'll get a most serious tuning article up shortly but this should provide you with a good start.

    Cheers!
    Hey Noel/Dusty,

    Has anything else come of the tuning article that was in the works? Now that I've got mine in hand I'm eager to read more about your thoughts on DB Air setup.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  40. #90
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    Just got my Chili with a DB Air - does anyone know if the shock comes with the recommended base tune pre-set?

  41. #91
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    I ordered a set of RS hardware last night for the longer set of reducers. I had the nicer fox 3 piece set up or the short bottom set (21.8 or whatever). I couldn't find the Fox 3 piece setups online anywhere.
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  42. #92
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    Still loving my DBair. I'm not too keen on all the pieces and o-rings on the reducer system either. I had to throw and old rock shox in there as the ones cane creek sent always seem to have play in them.

  43. #93
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    I'm showing my ignorance as I don't know exactly what you all are talking about. (A picture of the problem would be nice.)

    I may be way off track but Dusty gave some props to RWC SHOCK EYE NEEDLE BEARING KITS on his thread A worthy upgrade . Would this help you out?

    As my Chili will have the DBair, I'm curious to know the best solution.

  44. #94
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    I don't believe the RWC kit will work. From what I read, the CCDB's eyelet the bushing presses into is a slightly different size than Fox/Marz/RS. I've been looking for the thread I found that in, but can't find it again.

    I'll try to get a picture of what's causing my issue.
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  45. #95
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    Ok, here's the best I can do since I'm at work.

    per the diagram:

    #1 is the rubber o-ring that sits right against the bushing sleeve to keep grit out
    #2 is a fixed floating piece that is width dependent on the size of the axle
    #3 is a fixed end piece that has a recessed area with an o-ring on the inside, that keeps all the parts from falling off when you try to install it.

    Now my issue is #1 constantly works out of place and/or works itself up onto #2. So that gives the assembly lateral play the width of #1, probably 1 or 2mm.

    This is on top of the play already there when I put the pivot axle through the bushing. Both my Cane Creek sets of hardware do both things, have play with the pivot axle and the rubber o-ring comes out of place. This design is just beyond piss poor.

    RS and Fox are much better. Both have a larger circumference on the end that goes against the bushing sleeve to capture or cover the o-ring and keep it in place. RS's has a recessed groove that captures a rubber o-ring, and Fox is similar but only has a recessed area to cover up the o-ring.

    My Fox hardware i had for the short end worked and the pivot axle was a super snug fit in the bushing. We'll see how the RS hardware I ordered for the top does.

    Hope this makes sense.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chilcotin: The inevitable DB-air setup thread-ccdb-hardware.jpg  

    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Ok, here's the best I can do since I'm at work.
    WOW; I'd love to see what you could do with a little time! You could probably redesign it for CC.

    Stupid question: Have you sent this info to CC and see their suggestions and if they will send you a fix. (Sorry for the obvious question, but I used to work in tech support and it's amazing how many times things get overlooked in the heat of a situation.)

  47. #97
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    LOL, this is what happens when you are an engineer and sit in front of a computer for most of the day.

    I've not emailed CC about this, simply b/c I know this is how all their hardware is made, and I want a fix now and not have to worry about it anymore. RS and Fox hardware are available and should work, so I can have it fixed in a matter of days.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    LOL, this is what happens when you are an engineer and sit in front of a computer for most of the day.
    I studied engineering (electrical) if you haven't guessed by the anal bullet lists and obnoxiously long posts. I have ADHD and OCD which makes obsessively fixated on only those things that I like. (I think I have a new tag line!)

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    For reference Cane Creek has a site with the base tune for the DB Air on its website: Cane Creek DBAIR Suspension Base Tunes I rode a Chilcotin with these settings and it felt pretty darn good!

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    Is everyone setting sag with all settings full open or with compression and rebound adjustments made first? I went for an XCish ride yesterday and hated how this shock felt climbing. It seemed really squatty/wallowy climbing. It would squat about 1/3 the way into the travel then seemed to hit a platform. If I would stand and climb it would blow past that point and bounced all over the place. I bumbed LSC up a bit and then it really started suffering on techincal square edge features getting hung up way more than I've come to expect out of a Knolly. All in all, it reminded me very much of an RP23 climbing which I hate. Decending it was much better but not to the extent that it was worth the sufferfest on the way up. Maybe this thing is just more of a shuttlebike/DH shock than I was expecting? FWIW I started with sag around 25% then dialed in the settings from full open, if anything I would thing adjusting first would lead to me running less psi which seems like would be even worse climbing. Any thoughts?
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

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