• 10-22-2012
    Adaptive
    I got my DBAir back from Dirt Labs with the new air can and a full service, took the bike out for a ride and it felt ... exactly the same. Moreover, I am still not able to use the full travel. I had Dirt Labs configure the DB Air to the recommended setting for the Chilcotin (figured that was a good starting point) and am running 140psi for the air spring. I am 185 (in my birthday suit) and this yields about a 30% sag. It feels wonderful on the trail, but its only using 2/3 of the stroke on the shock.

    For the test ride, I went into AF Canyon (Wasatch, UT) and rode it 19 miles with 4600' of elevation change. There was plenty of really fast DH to test out the shock. Most of it is very fast with small roots, rocks and drops (small ones about 1-2 feet). There was some larger rocks on part of the trail which I used all of my front travel on. Granted I tend to hit these harder with the front end but I thought I would use more travel with the reworked air can.

    How big of a hit do you need to go off of to get to use all of the travel? Do I just need to take it somewhere bigger (Moab :) ) to test this or is there something still wrong with my shock?

    Also, I was running 140psi before the rework and was king of expecting to have to change it afterwards. I think it is right as the sag check out, it climbs wonderfully (no wallow), and claws it way over any tech it sees effortlessly. At this point I'm not sure what else to do... :madman:
  • 10-22-2012
    Rock dude
    Hey Elias, I was getting ready to send mine back to get the new can but after reading your report I'm second guessing if it's worth having the bike down.
  • 10-22-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    I got my DBAir back from Dirt Labs with the new air can and a full service, took the bike out for a ride and it felt ... exactly the same. Moreover, I am still not able to use the full travel. I had Dirt Labs configure the DB Air to the recommended setting for the Chilcotin (figured that was a good starting point) and am running 140psi for the air spring. I am 185 (in my birthday suit) and this yields about a 30% sag. It feels wonderful on the trail, but its only using 2/3 of the stroke on the shock.

    For the test ride, I went into AF Canyon (Wasatch, UT) and rode it 19 miles with 4600' of elevation change. There was plenty of really fast DH to test out the shock. Most of it is very fast with small roots, rocks and drops (small ones about 1-2 feet). There was some larger rocks on part of the trail which I used all of my front travel on. Granted I tend to hit these harder with the front end but I thought I would use more travel with the reworked air can.

    How big of a hit do you need to go off of to get to use all of the travel? Do I just need to take it somewhere bigger (Moab :) ) to test this or is there something still wrong with my shock?

    Also, I was running 140psi before the rework and was king of expecting to have to change it afterwards. I think it is right as the sag check out, it climbs wonderfully (no wallow), and claws it way over any tech it sees effortlessly. At this point I'm not sure what else to do... :madman:

    Same experience during my test ride, peeled a tire off the rim, still not full travel. What else to do? Get the DB coil.
  • 10-22-2012
    Adaptive
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rock dude View Post
    Hey Elias, I was getting ready to send mine back to get the new can but after reading your report I'm second guessing if it's worth having the bike down.

    Hey. Just because it has not yet fixed my problem, some people are reporting that it did fix the problem. In any respect, Dirt Labs in Colorado will do a 1 day turn on the shock for you. I would send it in to them and have the air can changed out. If you call Cane Creek they are going to tell you that you need to do that first anyways. Plus, I believe you have enough hours on that guy to warrant a service anyways...

    Here is how Dirt Labs configured my shock:

    Low Speed Compression: 14 clicks from - (out of 25)
    High Speed Compression: 1 full turn from - (out of 4)
    Low Speed Rebound: 12 clicks from - (out of 25)
    High Speed Rebound: 2 full turns from - (out of 4)

    I am going to try turning down the HSC to 3/4 and then 1/2 and see if it helps.
  • 10-22-2012
    Dude!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    I got my DBAir back from Dirt Labs with the new air can and a full service, took the bike out for a ride and it felt ... exactly the same. Moreover, I am still not able to use the full travel. I had Dirt Labs configure the DB Air to the recommended setting for the Chilcotin (figured that was a good starting point) and am running 140psi for the air spring. I am 185 (in my birthday suit) and this yields about a 30% sag. It feels wonderful on the trail, but its only using 2/3 of the stroke on the shock.

    For the test ride, I went into AF Canyon (Wasatch, UT) and rode it 19 miles with 4600' of elevation change. There was plenty of really fast DH to test out the shock. Most of it is very fast with small roots, rocks and drops (small ones about 1-2 feet). There was some larger rocks on part of the trail which I used all of my front travel on. Granted I tend to hit these harder with the front end but I thought I would use more travel with the reworked air can.

    How big of a hit do you need to go off of to get to use all of the travel? Do I just need to take it somewhere bigger (Moab :) ) to test this or is there something still wrong with my shock?

    Also, I was running 140psi before the rework and was king of expecting to have to change it afterwards. I think it is right as the sag check out, it climbs wonderfully (no wallow), and claws it way over any tech it sees effortlessly. At this point I'm not sure what else to do... :madman:


    Sorry to hear this, but I had a horrible experience with Dirt Lab. I don't think they know what they are doing. Before heading to Whistler, I am out of town with work so an ideal opportunity to get my Marz 66 serviced. There was nothing wrong with it, but since I was out of town - let's gets some new oil and seals before the big trip. I return and the fork feels like crap and is noisy. They removed the plastic spring cover - why? I have no clue. Fork was not moving smoothly through its travel - it was horrible. I sent it back paid for overnight shipping. It came back feeling like crap again. Now I was stuck with it for my trip. When I returned, I sent to Marzocchi who fixed the fork caused by Dirt Labs. I do not trust them at all!
  • 10-22-2012
    Calhoun
    damn, not what I was hoping for. I will still send mine in for service, the bushing is already worn and I have some seepage from the shrader valve.
  • 10-22-2012
    Adaptive
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    damn, not what I was hoping for. I will still send mine in for service, the bushing is already worn and I have some seepage from the shrader valve.

    It sounds like you should send it in... I am on my 3rd pair of bushings. I cant wait until the needle bearings are ready for this bike!

    Dude, sorry to hear about your lousy experience with Dirt Labs. While the DBAir is still not using all of its travel :madman: it is working very smoothly in all other aspects. They even swapped out the bushings for me as well. There are other labs as well...
  • 10-22-2012
    material guy
    I am so surprised that things are not working out after the new air can was installed for others.
    As I mentioned, in my first ride and several rides after that, my shock was not the same.
    Used all the travel on a 5' to flat, but use about 7/8ths travel on regular rides.
    No spiking, smooth as silk in all the motion in the travel range. On one drop on Cypress I thought that I was going to eat sh*t due to the crappy, rocky landing but the bike took the landing with out so much as a hick up.
    I would have thought the same for all of the shocks to have this mod?????

    I'm stoked with mine wish you were too.

    P.S. I did not use there settings, there's sucked.
  • 10-22-2012
    Rock dude
    ^^^ I'm glad to hear that you like yours because I went ahead and sent mine to GarageWorks today.
    I hope I have the same results.
  • 10-23-2012
    pergamonx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    It sounds like you should send it in... I am on my 3rd pair of bushings. I cant wait until the needle bearings are ready for this bike! ..

    Dont know are there others too, but Im using needle bearings already in the other (top) end of my DB Air - drilled eye up to 15mm`s, so using standard DU-bushings is also possible now. Bearing is RWS/ Enduro kit. Another eye is still original-sized.
  • 11-08-2012
    Adaptive
    Ok guys, sorry for the delay in testing but I finally got back on the bike. Leaving the shock setup as I had previously (straight from Dirt Labs, new air can, 140psi, etc.) I backed off the HSC by 1/2 turn (now total is 1/2 turn) and the result was pretty amazing. I was able to use almost all of the travel and it still felt really good. The trail I was on only had 3 foot-ish drops so I am pretty sure that when I take it to bigger terrain it will use the little bit of travel still remaining. I went ahead and continued to tune by backing off the LSC by 3 clicks and I am very happy with the results. Climbs great, no noticeable bob, really smooth ride (LSC wise) and its handling the big-hits great. Again, sorry for the review I posted before I perhaps had tested it enough. At least for now, I am calling it working!!! :) :) :) :) :)
  • 11-08-2012
    Calhoun
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adaptive View Post
    It sounds like you should send it in... I am on my 3rd pair of bushings. I cant wait until the needle bearings are ready for this bike!

    Dude, sorry to hear about your lousy experience with Dirt Labs. While the DBAir is still not using all of its travel :madman: it is working very smoothly in all other aspects. They even swapped out the bushings for me as well. There are other labs as well...

    I had my bike shop send my shock into BTI (local CC service center.) I just talked to them and they said the shock was blown. Something about oil leaking into the wrong chambers and seeping out of the shraeder valve. Cane Creek is going to replace the shock under warranty and the new(er) shocks already have the sleeve installed. Looking forward to seeing what this shock feels like when its working :D
  • 11-11-2012
    Calhoun
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    I had my bike shop send my shock into BTI (local CC service center.) I just talked to them and they said the shock was blown. Something about oil leaking into the wrong chambers and seeping out of the shraeder valve. Cane Creek is going to replace the shock under warranty and the new(er) shocks already have the sleeve installed. Looking forward to seeing what this shock feels like when its working :D

    So I fitted the shock to my bike Friday and went about the adjustment process. I started with the settings defined in the DB air Lounge. Bouncing around the neighborhood I was very surprised. The shock felt super plush and I was getting more travel than the previous shock ever got. Although I can't say that I noticed the sleeve upgrade exclusively, I cant say for sure that my previous shock was blown. Hopefully I will be able to get some solid ride time on the shock in the coming week and get it tuned.

    I went for a ride yesterday and the shock felt awesome. The trail conditions kept me too busy to really think about the shock. But I did not notice anything annoying so something must be right :D

    http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r...M/IMG_0461.jpg
  • 12-12-2012
    Dpca10
    Just got my new cc dbair and despite reading this, I backed out the screw too far and now don't have any audible clicks. Got it back in with a screwdriver but was really surprised this happened. I am always gentle with my gear but I think th problem stems from CC having the settings referenced from all the way open..... This makes no sense to me. Unless other people are having different experiences with their shock I never encountered a limit when opening my lsc screw for example. It just kept spinning on and on... Are others feeling a positive end to backing out the low speed screws? I'm assuming yes
  • 12-13-2012
    Calhoun
    Found this in another thread, could solve some problems:

    Huber Bushings - High Precision Shock Bushings
  • 12-13-2012
    MTBMarkWa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dpca10 View Post
    Just got my new cc dbair and despite reading this, I backed out the screw too far and now don't have any audible clicks. Got it back in with a screwdriver but was really surprised this happened. I am always gentle with my gear but I think th problem stems from CC having the settings referenced from all the way open..... This makes no sense to me. Unless other people are having different experiences with their shock I never encountered a limit when opening my lsc screw for example. It just kept spinning on and on... Are others feeling a positive end to backing out the low speed screws? I'm assuming yes

    I have 5 CCDB's between my wife and I on various bikes. On all of them, the low speed screws have a hard stop at full open. However I do have a riding buddy who's CCDB air does the same thing as yours on one of his low speed adjusters. He contacted Cane Creek on it and they said it shouldn't have any impact, and if he wanted to send it in he could. He decided not to and the shock has been fine, other than needing to know it has this behavior when turning the low speed screw full open.
  • 12-14-2012
    Dpca10
    Yeah I called CC and they said this can happen but unless oil and air are leaking out it shouldn't be a problem. I used the screwdriver trick to reset it. In any event the shock rides amazing. For a while I thought it felt stiff and wasn't plush until I realized that I wasn't feeling the chatter at all. Feel it really improved my traction on the turns
  • 12-14-2012
    006_007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Found this in another thread, could solve some problems:

    Huber Bushings - High Precision Shock Bushings

    The translation on the page is BRUTAL

    "The shock bushings are used to fix the shock absorber in the frame. Over the plain the pivoting movements of the damper can be added during compression and out. This should be durable and shock eye camp at the same time easily."

    If it helps eliminate the silly plastic spacer that I keep destroying I may be willing to try :thumbsup:
  • 12-14-2012
    Calhoun
    yeah, its a tough read, but damn they look seksy.
  • 12-15-2012
    wingover
    Quote:

    The translation on the page is BRUTAL
    Yes, thats true. :sad:
    Its an automatic translator.
    This is going to be improved.

    If you have questions I will try to answer more understandable.

    Stephan
  • 12-15-2012
    Dusty Bottoms
    Hey guys, jumping in on this thread for the first time in a few months, and only read the last 2 pages, so pardon me if what I'm about to say was covered in the middle pages...

    I'm seeing that many people complain about still feeling/thinking they are not getting full travel. Does everyone realize that the amount of exposed shaft on the shock is greater than the stroke of the shock? The stroke on the DB-air for Chilcotin is 2.25", but the exposed shaft is more like 2.5". This means that you will never get the travel indicator to bump all the way up to the shock body. At least, not with a properly working shock.

    Also, the new air can is an elective procedure, and certainly not mandatory specific for the Chilcotin and/or 4x4 suspension design. There is no deficiency with the standard air can on our suspension design, which is probably why most people feel no difference after the 'upgrade'.

    Finally, the eyelet/axle/reducer deficiency. Cane Creek is all over this, working hard on a permanent resolution. I have full confidence they will come up with something durable and elegant.

    Here are my current DB-air settings. As you can see, as I've gained confidence on the Chilcotin and DB-air, riding gets faster, damping goes up...

    PSI: 153 (RTR weight 215#)
    HSC: 1.5
    LSC: 18
    HSR: 2.5
    LSR: 12

    I keep my shock settings in my phone as a contact, so I can log changes on the trail, and not forget them. Cheers.
  • 12-15-2012
    aixelsyd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post


    Here are my current DB-air settings. As you can see, as I've gained confidence on the Chilcotin and DB-air, riding gets faster, damping goes up...

    PSI: 153 (RTR weight 215#)
    HSC: 1.5
    LSC: 18
    HSR: 2.5
    LSR: 12

    I keep my shock settings in my phone as a contact, so I can log changes on the trail, and not forget them. Cheers.




    Are those numbers from fully open or closed? IIRC The first time we got baseline setting some were from open and some were from close.
  • 12-15-2012
    F.N.G
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Also, the new air can is an elective procedure, and certainly not mandatory specific for the Chilcotin and/or 4x4 suspension design. There is no deficiency with the standard air can on our suspension design, which is probably why most people feel no difference after the 'upgrade'.

    So, I take it you have not "upgraded" to the larger can? I haven't really heard anything to convince me to do it. I like my shock the way it feels, but if something is actually better, I would do it.
  • 12-15-2012
    Mrwhlr
    ..and another thing I love about my DB coil (apart from the fact that it works the same as it did 2 years ago when I got it) I can change the sag in about 3 seconds. So aggravating faffing around w/ pumps, I can't believe I did it for so long.
  • 12-15-2012
    knollybikes.com
    Hey everyone:

    Just to clarify some of the discussion here:

    There are three things to understand regarding Cane Creek air shocks and available air can / sleeve options:

    Firstly: as Dusty B mentioned, often the visible length of the shaft is longer than the travel of the shock. Also, please remember that the i2i length of Cane Creek shocks typically measures about 1.5 - 2mm (1/16") shorter than the nominal length: this is because the shock is slightly pre-compressed by the internal top out bumper. As an aside, it is also good to remember this when measuring static BB height with a Cane Creek shock as the BB height will typically read a little lower than it actually is due to the pre-compressed nature of the shock.

    Secondly: internal air sleeve discussion. Most modern air shocks have an inner and outer air chamber: the inner chamber contains the piston which works against the air spring. The otter chamber has additional air volume that is used to give the shock a more "linear" spring rate than would be possible with just the internal air volume. Some earlier DB-Airs had a situation where air could not bleed fast enough between the inner and outer chambers, which would result in the shock feeling excessively progressive: i.e. the shock was effectively working with a much smaller air volume under high speed piston movement (i.e. big hits). At Knolly, since we were one of the first OEM customers to receive large quantities of DB-Air shocks, some of the shocks that we shipped had this issue. If you can not get full travel on a DB-Air shock no matter what you do (or have to run ridiculously low pressure to get full travel) then contact Cane Creek for warranty approved internal air sleeve change. This does not affect all earlier DB-airs , so if you're shock seems to be working fine, then you do not need to change the inner air sleeve.

    Thirdly: Cane Creek is working on an even higher volume external air can. The DB-air is already arguably the most linear air shock on the market: this larger air can is in response to some frame designs having less than idea shock progression and hence needing even more linearity. Given the idealized shock progression rate of Knolly frame due to the four by 4 linkage design, our frames do not need this larger air can to function properly.

    I hope that clears up any questions regarding CCDB-Air shocks and setup and / or performance.

    Cheers!