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Thread: Chilcotin FAQ's

  1. #1
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    Chilcotin FAQ's

    Just picked up my XL frame. I would appreciate some answers to the following

    1. Am I right in thinking that the forward pin position gives the steep head angle?

    2. What needs chasing out/facing?

    3. What FD do you find works best with 2 x 9 and bash?

    4. I have read some reports about problems with CCDB air bushing seals. My frame bushings include some washers just over 1mm thick on both sides of the seals. Is this the "fix" to the issue?

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    i might get the headtube reamed. i had a hard time pressing in my headset and others said they did too. this frame was the hardest to get in or any i have done before. bb was fine. front position is steep

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    My head tube was spot on. Didnt chase the BB threads, but did use an old BB and Park grease before installation of the new(er) BB.

    FD? That's for roadies, right?

    If you dont like the CC shock hardware, pick up a spare set of the stock Fox RP23 hardware and grind to fit.

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    Is the off-center seat tube a thing of the past? Is this a part of quality control for taiwan manufactured frames?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lastug View Post
    Is the off-center seat tube a thing of the past? Is this a part of quality control for taiwan manufactured frames?
    You have pictures?
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    i might get the headtube reamed. i had a hard time pressing in my headset and others said they did too. this frame was the hardest to get in or any i have done before. bb was fine. front position is steep
    You forgot to bring spare bolts to your pity party here!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    You forgot to bring spare bolts to your pity party here!
    Huh? Not sure how his reply here doesn't meet your approval but it seems like good info to me for anyone that is actually going to build their own bike, which I am most likely doing the next week or so...

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    1. Yes
    2. No
    3. Ditch the FD and go 1x10

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    The first couple headsets I pressed in to first batch fames were very tight. However I just pressed in my own cups from a newer batch and they were smoove. Bb was good.

    F. Der. needs to be a Shimano E2 direct mount. Xt or xtr. Not sure if there is an slx. The E2 part is the important part.

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    Quote: F. Der. needs to be a Shimano E2 direct mount. Xt or xtr. Not sure if there is an slx. The E2 part is the important part.

    What is the difference between E and E2?

  11. #11
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    Chilcotin 2x9 FD

    For 2x9 + bash setup these FD will work fine [approved by Kevin]:

    Shimano XT M770 E-Type 9sp

    Shimano XTR M970 E-Type 9sp
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikeBert View Post
    For 2x9 + bash setup these FD will work fine [approved by Kevin]:

    Shimano XT M770 E-Type 9sp

    Shimano XTR M970 E-Type 9sp
    PM'd Dulyebr a few days ago and he is using FD M780 E with his 2 x 9. Ordered from CR yesterday so I hope it works. Its a 3 x 10 FD. If there's a problem with it I will try the XTR M970 E as you suggested. M770 E is out of stock at CR at the moment.

    Thanks for the information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    PM'd Dulyebr a few days ago and he is using FD M780 E with his 2 x 9. Ordered from CR yesterday so I hope it works. Its a 3 x 10 FD. If there's a problem with it I will try the XTR M970 E as you suggested. M770 E is out of stock at CR at the moment.

    Thanks for the information.
    I was planning to get 3x10 FD myself but I read there could be some problems with setting such FD to work with 3x9 shifters. Let us know what is your friend's experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    1. Yes
    2. No
    3. Ditch the FD and go 1x10
    1 x 10 is in my sights. I just wanted to use what I already had to begin with and then change later when parts are available. I believe I can change my Saints to a single ring and then upgrade my mech to the new SRAM type 2 and use the new gripshift. 32 or 34 ring with 11-36 cassette? Not sure if 32 will fit, the spiders might be too long and poke out at the ends?

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    PM'd Dulyebr a few days ago and he is using FD M780 E with his 2 x 9. Ordered from CR yesterday so I hope it works. Its a 3 x 10 FD. If there's a problem with it I will try the XTR M970 E as you suggested. M770 E is out of stock at CR at the moment.

    Thanks for the information.
    All info on this thread so far is more or less accurate. The "E2" choices sit lower, and are best for setups without bash rings. A bash-ring helps prevent the chain from squirting out below the FD cage. If you are using a bash, you are better off with "E" selections since those sit a little higher to clear the bash when in the bigger ring.
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    Which size do the bushings have on the Chilcotin? I might get a frame with a RP23 and want to upgrade it with the CCDBA. So I need new bushings for it but can't find the numbers.

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    Fadi
    Reducer/hardware spec: Top 41.2mm x M6 / Bottom 21.8mm x M6

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    Whats the retail price on a Chili frame only in Canuck bucks? With CCDB Coil? With CCDB Air?

    Do the Endo and Chili both use the same e2e shock and stroke length to get different amounts of travel?

    Why is the seat tube angle so slack?

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    No idea on the prices.

    The first gen Endorphin and the Chilcotin both use a 7.875 x 2.25" shock. I don't know what the current Endorphin is, but would not be surprised if it is the same as well.

    The seat tube angle is slack so when you drop the seat it moves more forward and gives you more room to move around on the bike when the going gets tough. It also allows for shorter chainstays.

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    New Endo is the same 200 x 57

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanS. View Post
    It also allows for shorter chainstays.
    I don't see how that would happen, unless you mean seat stays?

    I didn't really like the feeling I got when doing tech climbing with my Nomad 1.5, it felt like I was going to fall off the back of the saddle, but I think SC has a 71 static seattube angle on that frame. The Norco Range Im currently riding has a 73.5 angle and the climbing position feels good. Just curious how "effective" an effective seat tube angle could really be?

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    Chainstays can be shorter under full compression if the tire does not interfere with seat tube. If the point where the tire would hit the seat tube is slightly forward then you can use a shorter chainstay and still not hit.

    A couple of factors affect seating feel while climbing, your actual seat position and the interaction between chain tension and sag. The off the back feel could be attributed to either one of these.

    If you suspension is sagging too much, then your saddle will be tipped back and you will feel like you are sliding off it. Nearly all bike designs use chain tension while pedaling to reduce the amount of sag, but the amount used varies, as too much will effectively lock out the suspension while climbing and limit the effectiveness of the frame while doing technical climbs, whereas not enough and the suspension will bob like crazy.

    The effective seat tube angle is exactly that, the effective angle for a person on a properly sized bike with the saddle in appropriate position for pedaling. It is measured from the centre of the cranks to the seat position. On a Knolly the location of the seat tube is further forward, but because of the slacker angle, it moves more rearward as you raise the post than a design with the seat tube in line with the bottom bracket. It doesn't really matter where the seat tube exits the frame as long as you can get the seat in the correct position for your needs. The effective seat angle is based on that position.

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    When are the 3D links going to be coming on the Chilis?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUNKY View Post
    When are the 3D links going to be coming on the Chilis?
    Couple months for upgrades: Anybody have news from the private unveil at Interbike?

    Not sure when they will show up on new frames though...probably not until existing straight link stock is depleted, since 3D is not required.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Couple months for upgrades: Anybody have news from the private unveil at Interbike?

    Not sure when they will show up on new frames though...probably not until existing straight link stock is depleted, since 3D is not required.
    if you want to avoid the potential of bent bolts at the shock, 3d is required. there is a reason they did it and that is to remove from the equation bent bolts at the shock. not everyone is bending them but it does happen and when it does during a ride, it is a pia. like it was said in the post by dusty, the shorter bolts are 50% stronger than the original bolts. when you bend one it is a buzzkill. it is nice to see them address and issue and make an upgrade available. hope the upgrade price is reasonable

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    Yup, preaching to the choir. I've broken 2 M8 bolts on my V-Tach, one of these bolts on my Giant AC1, which broke my shock's shaft on the Giant. When my Giant's bolt busted, I had just climbed to the top of Mission Ridge (12 miles up), and was getting ready to descend. PIA is an understatement.

    But I've also broken chain stays and ovalized head tubes (on my Giants), so I would consider myself to be an above average, aggressive rider who puts a lot of hard miles on my rigs.

    My 'not required' comment is to clarify that this is a product improvement. It's not a defect, or mandatory upgrade. (and yes, I will be upgrading, as I tend to ride at the ends of the bell curve)

    I expect that two pieces of CNC'd aluminum will not be cheap (guessing around the $200 range??)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big B View Post
    Yup, preaching to the choir. I've broken 2 M8 bolts on my V-Tach, one of these bolts on my Giant AC1, which broke my shock's shaft on the Giant. When my Giant's bolt busted, I had just climbed to the top of Mission Ridge (12 miles up), and was getting ready to descend. PIA is an understatement.

    But I've also broken chain stays and ovalized head tubes (on my Giants), so I would consider myself to be an above average, aggressive rider who puts a lot of hard miles on my rigs.

    My 'not required' comment is to clarify that this is a product improvement. It's not a defect, or mandatory upgrade. (and yes, I will be upgrading, as I tend to ride at the ends of the bell curve)

    I expect that two pieces of CNC'd aluminum will not be cheap (guessing around the $200 range??)
    i hope less for chili owners. it is an upgrade that should have been done right from square one on a newly designed frame. flat plate style rockers on a $200+ frame are really unacceptable when it is an easy matter to run 3d. people paid decent money for a boutique frame. i guess we'll find out eventually. i know people who won't even consider a frame without 3d rockers.

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    right on

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    Chili is probably going to be my next ride, but what headset is recommended for a tapered fork - lowest stack height possible. CK or Cane Creek, if you know exact product name and size that would be awesome!

    And I'm also wondering if the FD is direct frame mount, or do you have to BB mount it with one of those E types?

    Thx

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by djball View Post
    Chili is probably going to be my next ride, but what headset is recommended for a tapered fork - lowest stack height possible. CK or Cane Creek, if you know exact product name and size that would be awesome!

    And I'm also wondering if the FD is direct frame mount, or do you have to BB mount it with one of those E types?

    Thx
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    "E2" is the essential part of this. It mounts directly to the frame, not to the bb.
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    i hope less for chili owners. it is an upgrade that should have been done right from square one on a newly designed frame. flat plate style rockers on a $200+ frame are really unacceptable when it is an easy matter to run 3d. people paid decent money for a boutique frame. i guess we'll find out eventually. i know people who won't even consider a frame without 3d rockers.
    Birds of a feather, qbert.

    If your frame is a large, I'll give you $500 for it.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    i hope less for chili owners. it is an upgrade that should have been done right from square one on a newly designed frame. flat plate style rockers on a $200+ frame are really unacceptable when it is an easy matter to run 3d. people paid decent money for a boutique frame. i guess we'll find out eventually. i know people who won't even consider a frame without 3d rockers.
    Qbert, to be honest, I thought you were a bit arrogant when speaking about what Knolly should have done regarding 3D rockers and that they should have used 8mm hardware. Now that I've bent the shock bolt, I now give credence to what you were saying. I rode and still own an Iron Horse 6Point for 4 years that had 3D rockers and 8mm hardware and never had an issue with bolts bending. Knolly built up an ABSOLUTELY AMAZING bike in the Chilcotin. It simply blows my mind every time I ride it. It is a truly genius creation that has changed what the industry should try to attain. I really commend Knolly for addressing this issue and I also believe they will be reasonable to all Chilly owners with pricing for an upgrade.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    Qbert, to be honest, I thought you were a bit arrogant when speaking about what Knolly should have done regarding 3D rockers and that they should have used 8mm hardware. Now that I've bent the shock bolt, I now give credence to what you were saying. I rode and still own an Iron Horse 6Point for 4 years that had 3D rockers and 8mm hardware and never had an issue with bolts bending. Knolly built up an ABSOLUTELY AMAZING bike in the Chilcotin. It simply blows my mind every time I ride it. It is a truly genius creation that has changed what the industry should try to attain. I really commend Knolly for addressing this issue and I also believe they will be reasonable to all Chilly owners with pricing for an upgrade.
    i've had flat plate rocker bikes before with 8mm hardware and it was a weak point. 3d rockers with even 6mm hardware are better than flat with even the 8mm grade 12+ bolts knolly uses. i'm glad they addressed it, as unfortunately, just like blowing a tire off the rim it usually happens far away from the car and can lead to a long walk out, plus kill the buzz of a good ride. time will tell how much existing owners will be charged to upgrade. i guess we'll see then how fairly they are priced.

    btw, i don't get the arrogant part. this is a consumer review forum where we should be able to say the good with the bad. if we all just blew smoke up each other's azzes no one would be aware of any issues or potential ones. really, we the consumers should be looking out for our best interests, not the manufacturers. it's their job, as a good company to respond to problems, not rely on forum users to jump all over anyone with a dissenting opinion so they are silenced before making people aware of stuff.
    Last edited by qbert2000; 11-10-2012 at 06:00 PM.

  34. #34
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    On every bike I've owned that included a long shock bolt and flat rocker plates, I've bent the bolt. Some of the designs, like Foes, were just ridiculous (horrible design with the scissor linkage). Bikes that did this on me include foes, azonic and rocky mountain. The amount of stress this thing is seeing is immense, and the longer it is, the more of a lever is on it with the rocker plates. It either has to be huge diameter (not really possible), or you do something decent like use 3d rockers. My last 3 FS bikes have had some form of 3d rockers, and no problems with these types. It's not great to generalize about bike design, but flat rocker plates and long shock bolts/pins usually don't mix. I did look for this when considering my recent FS bikes, and I will in the future as well.
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    Anybody got pics/details of the Chilcotin 3d rocker? Are the kits available now and what is the cost?

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    Bolts cost less than $1

    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    Knolly built up an ABSOLUTELY AMAZING bike in the Chilcotin. It simply blows my mind every time I ride it. It is a truly genius creation that has changed what the industry should try to attain.
    This ^^^^^

    How is that even possible with 2d rockers?

    Only a real spode would ignore that over a rocker design. I think that's why Turner had 'em first .
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    This ^^^^^

    How is that even possible with 2d rockers?

    Only a real spode would ignore that over a rocker design. I think that's why Turner had 'em first .
    I'm not sure if you've ridden a Chilcotin, but it's the best bike out there! You get the best of everything in this bike, but most importantly the "fun factor" this bike has is unprecedented. Knolly is addressing the rocker arms so that's nothing to hold against them. The bike is a step above!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayha View Post
    I'm not sure if you've ridden a Chilcotin, but it's the best bike out there! You get the best of everything in this bike, but most importantly the "fun factor" this bike has is unprecedented. Knolly is addressing the rocker arms so that's nothing to hold against them. The bike is a step above!
    We're in agreement, except for one thing - the Delirium is the best bike out there .

    To put it another way, qbert and Jayem are being biatches about the rockers.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    This ^^^^^

    How is that even possible with 2d rockers?

    Only a real spode would ignore that over a rocker design. I think that's why Turner had 'em first .
    You are one of the biggest kool-aid drinkers out there, latching on to Az forum posts with no direct connection, defending chumba until you looked ridiculous, and so on.

    Let me spell it out for you, first of all, getting grade 12.9 bolts is usually going to cost more than a dollar. While not excessively expensive, often they are of a specific size and thread that may or may not be available at the hardware store. If it is at the hardware store, it's still significantly more than a buck, and if it's not available there, it's a pain to order every time this happens. What really happens though is that the bolt bends, and you have rotating parts like the shock bushing, once you have a bent part in there trying to rotate, you quickly wear the bushing and possibly deform the shock hole and mounting brackets in the linkage. This is why it's such a big problem, because these interfaces are not made to be toyed with all the time, and once you introduce play in there due to ovalization and making the ID bigger, the problem just gets worse and worse, as now the bolt is free to "rock" back and forth in the area that has been worked open/free space. This makes the play develop a lot faster on all of the joints due to the higher instantaneous forces encountered, and on any high priced bike, this is simply not acceptable.

    You like to whine and cry when other people post something that you don't agree with, so don't get your panties all in a bunch since I'm doing the same with you. You can either accept this or not, but hopefully others can find it useful and use it to make informed decisions.

    But don't worry, I'm not going to call you a b|tch in kind, I refrain from the personal attacks. Knolly makes great bikes. Sometimes things are overlooked. It looks like they are trying to address this, but you always seem to claim that errors and problems are not really what they are until the evidence is screaming in your face. Good luck.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    You are one of the biggest kool-aid drinkers out there, latching on to Az forum posts with no direct connection, defending chumba until you looked ridiculous, and so on.

    Let me spell it out for you, first of all, getting grade 12.9 bolts is usually going to cost more than a dollar. While not excessively expensive, often they are of a specific size and thread that may or may not be available at the hardware store. If it is at the hardware store, it's still significantly more than a buck, and if it's not available there, it's a pain to order every time this happens. What really happens though is that the bolt bends, and you have rotating parts like the shock bushing, once you have a bent part in there trying to rotate, you quickly wear the bushing and possibly deform the shock hole and mounting brackets in the linkage. This is why it's such a big problem, because these interfaces are not made to be toyed with all the time, and once you introduce play in there due to ovalization and making the ID bigger, the problem just gets worse and worse, as now the bolt is free to "rock" back and forth in the area that has been worked open/free space. This makes the play develop a lot faster on all of the joints due to the higher instantaneous forces encountered, and on any high priced bike, this is simply not acceptable.

    You like to whine and cry when other people post something that you don't agree with, so don't get your panties all in a bunch since I'm doing the same with you. You can either accept this or not, but hopefully others can find it useful and use it to make informed decisions.

    But don't worry, I'm not going to call you a b|tch in kind, I refrain from the personal attacks. Knolly makes great bikes. Sometimes things are overlooked. It looks like they are trying to address this, but you always seem to claim that errors and problems are not really what they are until the evidence is screaming in your face. Good luck.
    Jayem, relax, after all this is "just another horst link" we're discussing here .
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  41. #41
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    Pretty sure I bent mine prior to shimming my rp23. I've since gone with the medium Fox shim and put a new bolt on and haven't had the bottoming issue since.

    I'll likely take them up on the 3D rockers when they're ready. I guess I should finally get around to building up the Raw small that's sitting in my garage too.

    EB

  42. #42
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    So do the new frames that are shipping currently come with the 3D rockers?
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So do the new frames that are shipping currently come with the 3D rockers?
    Kevin mentioned in the other thread that they will be a rolling change, but no date has been set.

    I will probably buy the new rockers when they are available, not because I have ever broken the bolt, but for no other reason than I like the latest and greatest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    We're in agreement, except for one thing - the Delirium is the best bike out there .
    I thought this too, but after some BCGB time last night, current nod to the Chilcotin.

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