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  1. #1
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    Chilcotin compared to Enduro

    I know it's a vague question! I have a 2010 Enduro which I like. Just thinkign I might try somehting new but not sure if the FSR would be that different of a riding bike. Frames weight about the same, geo is pretty close also. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I know it's a vague question! I have a 2010 Enduro which I like. Just thinkign I might try somehting new but not sure if the FSR would be that different of a riding bike. Frames weight about the same, geo is pretty close also. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    The 4x4 is different than Specy's version of the Horst. First, there are 2 sets of linkages. One in which controls the wheel rate and path, and the other which controls the shock/leverage rate. This is unique in that is allows Noel to independently configure both for a specific purpose. Compared to other horst link bikes, the Knolly will pedal better, have less wallow, and simultaneously be more active. The Knolly is ridiculously active, yet has an incredible mid and ending stroke. The Chili is a ripper, and cornering on this bike is something you have to experience to believe.

    We need to hook up sometime so you can hop on my Chili. They are stunning to see in person.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  3. #3
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    Several of my riding buddies own Enduros (all 2010+) and I currently own a Chilcotin for AM/FR use, so I think I may be able to provide some insight here. First, what tiSS'er says is completely true. Even to a suspension novice like myself, the Chili's improved pedaling and more active suspension are obvious, all without giving up a phenomenal mid-stroke. What I like about the Enduro, which is certainly subjective, is its more DH feel. It is a bigger bike than the Chili and on beastly descents I would say it feels like it, which is not the easiest task as the Chili feels much bigger than it is (in a good way). Unfortunately, the Enduro also feels like a bigger bike going up. It suffers from significantly more pedal bob and what I can only describe as lag in the suspension. The Chilcotin absolutely shines on the climbs, like no other comparable bike I've ridden. Also, to me the Chili feels like a far more playful bike than the Enduro. If all I were riding were jump trails and had to choose between an Enduro or Chilcotin, it would be the latter every time.


    In summary, the Enduro as an AM bike gave up a lot to be a monster on the descents. It does do very well in this respect and against my Chili (with an RP23), I dare say it did a better job. However, after strapping an Avy'd Van RC on and dialing it in, the nod even here likely goes to the Chilcotin.

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    Oh hush now. I read right here on mtbr some Prescott clown saying the 4x4 is nothing more than a Horst link, just a very particular kind of Horst link. He used the term Horst link a lot, at least three times, so I think he was pretty sure of his thoughts.......
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  5. #5
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    Well since i did own a 2012 Enduro Comp i can tell you from first hand experience how they do .As most have said , the chili climbs extremely well , very stiff , active, and its a playful bike . I love that i can build it up from 150mm-180mm .The shock mounts also are great to run steep or slack . The Chili is a do it all bike for sure , it handles great too . I have noticed that you really need to get dialed in and ride the bike a certain way to really enjoy it and learn how it reacts.

    Now , my enduro was great , loved it a lot , it it just handled everything easily . As mentioned before it is a burly bike , and it feels like your in the frame not on the frame . Even tho it only had a 160mm fork on mine , the front end tended to wander at times and i had a hard time climbing with it . What i also didnt like was that it had the proprietary parts on it so i couldnt swap out the shock on the 2012 frame .It is a very capable bike and it can handle whatever you throw at it .I wouldnt hesitate to buy another enduro at all .

    I would say both bikes are great , its a win win with either , but i give the nod to the Knolly due to the adjustability and how well it climbs .

  6. #6
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    tiSS'er, is there a rider weight limit on the Chili. You know me I am not a skinny fellow. Sent a email off to Knolly but thought I would ask.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  7. #7
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    Sold my carbon road bike this weekend which was a factor in getting the Chilcotin. Next was to see if DSP-Racing had a shock in stock. Trying to keep the weight down somewhat as I not a DH'er and do mostly pedal rides at PMP and SOMO in Arizona.

    This morning's email.

    Hi Tim

    the shorter we have in stock is 8.5 e2e.

    DSP have stop making short coil like this because no request or so... but i can suggess you the x-fusion vector hlr air with high volume air sleeve. that high volume air sleeve will support no problem your weight.


    I looked at Avalanche this morning. Woodie and Chubie with Ti spring is pricey. Know they would be great shocks! But dang I thought I had this figured out using the DSP shock.

  8. #8
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    What about using a CCDB coil, or a DHX or even sending Avy a DHX to mod?
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    What about using a CCDB coil, or a DHX or even sending Avy a DHX to mod?
    All options at this point. 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    As stated, trying to keep weight down some as I need all the help I can get on climbs.

  10. #10
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    The CCDBA has been an awesome shock for me so far.

    What shocks have you used in the past?

    As for Dusty's recommendations, I have learned to take heed. That guy kinda knows what he is talking about.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

    -cabra cadabra

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    The CCDBA has been an awesome shock for me so far.

    What shocks have you used in the past?

    As for Dusty's recommendations, I have learned to take heed. That guy kinda knows what he is talking about.
    I have a Push RS Monarch RC3 Plus on my Enduro. I like the performance over all but there are areas I could see improvement.

    On a Ventana El Rey I had the Push RS Monarch RT-AM. That shock for that bike was great.

    All Fox Air shocks pushed or not have not been up to par for me. Can;t nail it down but they just don't feel right.

    I would prefer an Air shock for the type of riding I do. So if the CCDB-A is a good match on the Chilcotin I have no issues running that shock.

  12. #12
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    Talked to the guy at Avalanche, sold on the Woddie with steel spring for now. I just hope I don;t get the weight to high as I need all the help I can get on climbs. My 2010 Enduro with RC3 Plus weights in at 32lbs.

  13. #13
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    Joined the family today and ordered a black ano Chilcotin with CCDB Air. Was really on the fence between it and the Woodie. After a long chat with Kevin, I decided to go Air. Great support so far from Kevin on all my questions.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Joined the family today and ordered a black ano Chilcotin with CCDB Air. Was really on the fence between it and the Woodie. After a long chat with Kevin, I decided to go Air. Great support so far from Kevin on all my questions.
    Congrats, can't wait to hear your thoughts. Let me know if you need any help setting up the CCDB. Although I had the coil, I might be able to give you some insight based on our terrain.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

  15. #15
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    Congrats , and no offense but a shocks weight wont have an effect on " help " with your climbs. The best area to look at for weight savings would be your wheels first.

    After that i would recommend trying a diet plan and getting into a healthier lifestyle to shed some weight and practice on some long steady climbs to help as well. Best of luck to you

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    Quote Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    Congrats , and no offense but a shocks weight wont have an effect on " help " with your climbs. The best area to look at for weight savings would be your wheels first.

    After that i would recommend trying a diet plan and getting into a healthier lifestyle to shed some weight and practice on some long steady climbs to help as well. Best of luck to you
    If you only knew my diet plan, I have kidney diease related to diabetes. So lets just say, I'm restricted as all can be on diet. Everyone thinks heavy people are simply sitting around eating pizza and drinking beer all day. Not the case here. Insulin is the main issue and how it converts carbs. Then one would say more protein, can't kills the kidneys. Could get in more base miles though.

    I have Flow Rims laced to Hadley hubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    If you only knew my diet plan, I have kidney diease related to diabetes. So lets just say, I'm restricted as all can be on diet. Everyone thinks heavy people are simply sitting around eating pizza and drinking beer all day. Not the case here. Insulin is the main issue and how it converts carbs. Then one would say more protein, can't kills the kidneys. Could get in more base miles though.

    I have Flow Rims laced to Hadley hubs.
    You have nothing to worry about. I've seen your ride GPS posted, your fitness is just fine. I find PMP is brutal, short steep ups, followed by short steep downs, repeat for 15 miles.

    I think you will find the Chili pedals better than the Enduro, with better traction and a more supple ride. My Chili is 34lbs with heavy tires and a Avy Woody. Your build should some right in about the weight you want. Knowing that you like Horst bikes, and have a similar attention to suspension detail I do, I'm confident you will love the bike.

    I have said this many, many times before though, riding a Knolly is a bit different than other bikes. It takes a few rides to get used to. You need to be more centered on the bike to get the most out of it. Riding it aggressively will pay off in spades. The bike rails exceptionally, but again, it takes some time to get used to.

    Any idea when you should be getting the frame? Hopefully we can hook up sometime as I would like to see the finished product
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    You have nothing to worry about. I've seen your ride GPS posted, your fitness is just fine. I find PMP is brutal, short steep ups, followed by short steep downs, repeat for 15 miles.

    I think you will find the Chili pedals better than the Enduro, with better traction and a more supple ride. My Chili is 34lbs with heavy tires and a Avy Woody. Your build should some right in about the weight you want. Knowing that you like Horst bikes, and have a similar attention to suspension detail I do, I'm confident you will love the bike.

    I have said this many, many times before though, riding a Knolly is a bit different than other bikes. It takes a few rides to get used to. You need to be more centered on the bike to get the most out of it. Riding it aggressively will pay off in spades. The bike rails exceptionally, but again, it takes some time to get used to.

    Any idea when you should be getting the frame? Hopefully we can hook up sometime as I would like to see the finished product
    I guessing two weeks. Chad @ Red barn has the frame waiting, need headset, hadley conversion and the other odds and ends to do a parts swap. Hold up is the DB-Air. Looks like 7 days to build it at Cane Creek and then shipping time to Chad and me.

    Enduro sits at 32 right now. Enduro frame was 7.1 pounds and the Chilcotin is listed at 7.5. But I think I read in a email the ANO is lighter, you know that .005 is going to make the difference.

    As for me and my health. Sure I would love to lose a few pounds, hell that is why I ride! Low red blood cell count do to the kidney issues zaps me on climbs, as well as lugging up the mass. So I don't deny I can't help the situation some myself. But it not as simple as just getting off the couch!

    But heck I read today the Japanese grew kidney tissue from stem cells. So there is hope for me yet to be the next Lance Armstrong. Wait I'll just be me!

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    Got the word late Friday that it is shipping this week.

    Any tips on routing cables or anything I should watch out for during the build?

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    The Chili builds up really easy.

    If you aren't using a front derailleur you can re-use those bolts. They thread right into the holes for the water bottle mount.

    Also my first Chili frame didn't come with any cable mount hardware (plastic clips) but the second frame did. Those clips are pretty swanky, especially the double wides.
    110 Headsets are a b!tch to press in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I guessing two weeks. Chad @ Red barn has the frame waiting, need headset, hadley conversion and the other odds and ends to do a parts swap. Hold up is the DB-Air. Looks like 7 days to build it at Cane Creek and then shipping time to Chad and me.

    Enduro sits at 32 right now. Enduro frame was 7.1 pounds and the Chilcotin is listed at 7.5. But I think I read in a email the ANO is lighter, you know that .005 is going to make the difference.

    As for me and my health. Sure I would love to lose a few pounds, hell that is why I ride! Low red blood cell count do to the kidney issues zaps me on climbs, as well as lugging up the mass. So I don't deny I can't help the situation some myself. But it not as simple as just getting off the couch!

    But heck I read today the Japanese grew kidney tissue from stem cells. So there is hope for me yet to be the next Lance Armstrong. Wait I'll just be me!
    With a dbair it will be closer to 8lbs. Congrats on the bike !

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    I used to be more weight conscious before I got my chili. I started off with a lyrik RC2DH and a vivid air. Great, light setup. However first ride on coil, Im sold. The bike is heavier, yes, however my riding has improved. I only notice the weight on uphill slogs, which I dont care for much anyways. Uphill tech has improved, and well, the downs are glorious.

    With that being said, your gonna love your chili no matter how its setup.

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    Good choice! I'm 240-250 depending on dinner and beer without gear.

    You'll be fine on the Chili, I received mine last summer had spent some solid time on the bike, including 4 days at whistler and 3 at Mt Creek(Diablo). I have an '11 S-works Enduro (I broke the '10 S works at upper shock mount interestingly enough).

    I haven't sold either bike. Chili is versatile beyond belief, it handles like a scalpel. Its line tracking and the suspension on technical climbs are un-believable. You will be happy.

    The Enduro is also an amazing bike, I think its just a bit quicker on the non-tech ups and its "flow trail" characteristics are top notch... which makes it a bit quicker overall (seat of the pants).

    I think with the Chili BB dropped they probably on par in the descent (both have 160 36 Foxes), but in the air the Chili feels much more neutral and even a bit more flickable than the lighter S-works.

    They're both just awesome bikes, but if I were to have just one, I'd keep the Chili... the adjustable geo and ability to pull some stupid slow speed moves and clean techy ups and own the downs wins vs. a bit more speed for me. Luckily I can keep em both.

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    The build begins this weekend. Fluid change in the Lyrik done and set it back to 170mm. Fresh dot 4 in the Hopes and some new Goodrich pads. Had planned on a final ride on the Enduro tonight but one of my staff had to go home with a tummy ache.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    The build begins this weekend. Fluid change in the Lyrik done and set it back to 170mm. Fresh dot 4 in the Hopes and some new Goodrich pads. Had planned on a final ride on the Enduro tonight but one of my staff had to go home with a tummy ache.

    Get ready

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    Enduro/RC3 Plus = 7.7 pounds
    Chilcotin/CCDB Air = 8.0

    That should make a 33.3 pound Chili.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Enduro/RC3 Plus = 7.7 pounds
    Chilcotin/CCDB Air = 8.0

    That should make a 33.3 pound Chili.
    What tires are you running? That it pretty close to the weight of mine, but I'm running an Avy Woodie
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    What tires are you running? That it pretty close to the weight of mine, but I'm running an Avy Woodie
    2.4 Purgatory Grid & Bronson out back. But I run 8 ounces of Flat Attack/Stans in each tire also.

    Left the BB at the office, not driving to 36th Ave right now unless the alarm company is calling me.

    The Enduro came in at 30LBS this week. And since I am moving over all the parts minus the frame. 33.3lbs in my book.

    Sent you an image.

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    Great looking bike. I love the stealth! Glad to have you join Team Knolly! I can't wait to hear your impressions. Keep in ind it may take a few weeks to adjust to the "Knolly Ride" They do ride a bit differently than any other bike I have been on. But, once you figure it out...you will really appreciate the bike. I suspect it will take you a month or so to get the CCDB dialed in as well. Don't be afraid to play with it.

    Before you know it, the rest of your crew will be on Knollys That's how it started in my crew. I bought one, and next thing you know....
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

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    I figured it will take some time to dial it in. But if you know what each dial does it should not be that hard. Might have to try the steep setting or change the Lyrik to 160, 170 and I have a 65 degree HA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I figured it will take some time to dial it in. But if you know what each dial does it should not be that hard. Might have to try the steep setting or change the Lyrik to 160, 170 and I have a 65 degree HA.
    Leave the Lyrik at 170* and switch from steep to slack depending on terrain. FYI, chili pedals damn good at 65*, steep, slack, whatever. No flip flopping or front end wandering. I'm running a 180mm fork with zero stack inset and mine climbs like a (37 lb) goat.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I figured it will take some time to dial it in. But if you know what each dial does it should not be that hard.
    Cycle64, I hope you enjoy your bike. The HA setting really is a matter of preference, but from what I've read most people prefer the steep HA for both up and down; so I suggest you start there.


    Questions for Everyone
    1) Is there a shock/fork out there that completely separates low-speed and high-speed adjustments from each other? (My belief is that you change your high-speed setting--even slightly--by changing you low-speed setting.)

    If I'm right:

    2) How independent are the dials on a CC?; and

    3) Which adjustment affects another adjustment the most? (I'm guessing LSC affects HSC most.)
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Cycle64, I hope you enjoy your bike. The HA setting really is a matter of preference, but from what I've read most people prefer the steep HA for both up and down; so I suggest you start there.


    Questions for Everyone
    1) Is there a shock/fork out there that completely separates low-speed and high-speed adjustments from each other? (My belief is that you change your high-speed setting--even slightly--by changing you low-speed setting.)

    If I'm right:

    2) How independent are the dials on a CC?; and

    3) Which adjustment affects another adjustment the most? (I'm guessing LSC affects HSC most.)
    about 2 minutes in.....

    Cane Creek Double Barrel Video - YouTube
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    That's a great video. Thanks for finding it!

    However, it says that LSC doesn't effect LSR and that HSC doesn't effect HSR. I already had the worked out in my mind. I was wondering about LSC affecting HSC and LSR affecting HSR (or vise versa).
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Sold my carbon road bike this weekend which was a factor in getting the Chilcotin. Next was to see if DSP-Racing had a shock in stock. Trying to keep the weight down somewhat as I not a DH'er and do mostly pedal rides at PMP and SOMO in Arizona.

    This morning's email.

    Hi Tim

    the shorter we have in stock is 8.5 e2e.

    DSP have stop making short coil like this because no request or so... but i can suggess you the x-fusion vector hlr air with high volume air sleeve. that high volume air sleeve will support no problem your weight.


    I looked at Avalanche this morning. Woodie and Chubie with Ti spring is pricey. Know they would be great shocks! But dang I thought I had this figured out using the DSP shock.
    Who did you talk to at DSP? I know we have all the listed sizes available. What size does the Chili take? 200x57? Everyone in Taiwan is celebrating their New Year until Feb 17 but you should be able to get one through Guillaume at S4 Suspension in Quebec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    That's a great video. Thanks for finding it!

    However, it says that LSC doesn't effect LSR and that HSC doesn't effect HSR. I already had the worked out in my mind. I was wondering about LSC affecting HSC and LSR affecting HSR (or vise versa).
    Force is force. I bet there is a range of overlap and I don't think it matters that much as long as the range the adjusters respond to doesn't overlap hugely.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Who did you talk to at DSP? I know we have all the listed sizes available. What size does the Chili take? 200x57? Everyone in Taiwan is celebrating their New Year until Feb 17 but you should be able to get one through Guillaume at S4 Suspension in Quebec.
    hahaha "we".

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Who did you talk to at DSP? I know we have all the listed sizes available. What size does the Chili take? 200x57? Everyone in Taiwan is celebrating their New Year until Feb 17 but you should be able to get one through Guillaume at S4 Suspension in Quebec.
    I deleted the email but was told it was not available. Not sure who it was, but a buddy gave me the email address. He said it was a contact for DSP, since he had already purchased a DSP for his Titus. 2 weeks after I filled out the online question form, someone said they had it. At that point I had ordered the CCDB Air. I would have gone DSP if I had known that DSP had it available. My friend has been impressed with his so far.

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    Took it into a big wash by my friends house, sweet.

    Came in at 33.08 pounds. HA is 65 degrees in the steep position, 170 Lyrik. No pics yet, but since it is stealth ANO Black you would not see it anyway.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    hahaha "we".
    D_O_U_C_H_E bag

  41. #41
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    So tired of Qbert's mouth

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    hahaha "we".
    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    D_O_U_C_H_E bag
    My favorite "old married couple"! Haven't seen you two post in a while. Hope the kids are well; and neither of you has broken a hip.

    xoxo

    t
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    So tired of Qbert's mouth
    LOL you guys argue like a married couple .

  44. #44
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    Haha funny...my wife and I get along, maybe had a dozen arguments in 14 years of marriage.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Took it into a big wash by my friends house, sweet.

    Came in at 33.08 pounds. HA is 65 degrees in the steep position, 170 Lyrik. No pics yet, but since it is stealth ANO Black you would not see it anyway.
    Nice thread, enjoying watching the build come together.

    One question though. Maybe I'm missing something, but how did you manage 65 degrees in the steep setting?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Nice thread, enjoying watching the build come together.

    One question though. Maybe I'm missing something, but how did you manage 65 degrees in the steep setting?
    I am running a Lyric RC2DH set at 170mm. Bolt hole closest to the seat tube has a HA of 64, furthest from the seat tube is 65. Using my Driod app to take the HA reading.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    So tired of Qbert's mouth
    DSP? Can I get a discount on a Ti spring for all the tantrum's I've given him?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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    what are your impressions about the lateral stiffness and rigidity??...i have a 2010 Endo...its swingarms look like to be twice the diateter of the Chilotin...i am considering it for having more tralev but this....make me have some dubts about it....what do you think???...thanks

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    DSP? Can I get a discount on a Ti spring for all the tantrum's I've given him?
    We (yes "we") have been working on both an Ebay store and being able to purchase the springs directly from the springtime website Springtime. Both should be live shortly after the Taiwan crew comes back from their 3 week long holiday. Look for a discount code the first few weeks they are live, AND thanks for giving him the tantrums.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    I am running a Lyric RC2DH set at 170mm. Bolt hole closest to the seat tube has a HA of 64, furthest from the seat tube is 65. Using my Driod app to take the HA reading.
    Ahhh interesting, I'm guessing that the external cup is quite tall and/or the a-c on the 170 Lyrik is around 565mm?

    Whats the app called, it sounds pretty handy.

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