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  1. #1
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    chaintensioner/hammerschmidt

    could anyone tell me if i would beable to use a chain tensioner on my dt with a hammerschmidt crank. thanks ian

  2. #2
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    Yep. It has worked flawlessly for 6 months.
    (if you can see past the mud!)



    The only problem is that its hard to see the clear plastic window when it gets muddy, and the yellow lines need to stay lined up. In this pic, they are not quite lined up.

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirian
    could anyone tell me if i would beable to use a chain tensioner on my dt with a hammerschmidt crank. thanks ian
    You don't need a chain tensioner if you're running a Hammerschmidt--there really isn't any place for the chain to go.

  4. #4
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    Kristian,
    You DO need some sort of tensioner. You can use a standard derailleur, the Alfine (by far the best I have used) a YESS tensioner (second best), or the Surly Singulator (piece of crap on anything but a hardtail).

    I briefly tried to ride a 6" travel singlespeed without a tensioner. I am glad I didnt break the frame. There are only a few frames that have zero lengthening as they cycle through the travel (mostly floating BB designs, I suppose)
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhfreethought
    Kristian,
    You DO need some sort of tensioner.
    Yes, but I think the original poster is looking to see if there is a chain guide that can be used with the HS. I meant to use the word "guide" in my follow up, but had tensioner on the brain.

    I single speeded my DT in the boonies near Moab and it worked for a while but I eventually snapped the chain.

  6. #6
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    If you are asking about a tensioner for a traditional HS set up (not using internally geared rear...nice set up by the way, instead using a standard rear derailleur), it is not likely. At least nothing off the shelve. The HS uses the ISCG tabs and uses up most of the space where a BB mounted guide could be used. It might be possible to make something custom, but probably not worth the effort as the benefits probably don't justify the effort.

    I wanted one for the 1st few months I rode my HS on the DT. Still had some chain slap in certain gears and wanted something like a DH single ring guide with a lower pulley. The chain never jump the chain ring, but it can be a little noise.

    I switched to a short cage RD and that really helped. (also shortened the chain a bit). It is much quicker than even a mid cage and shifting is flawless.

  7. #7
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    thanks for the advice guys.....
    maybe i should have given alittle more detail.
    i run a hammerschmidt crank with a long cage sram x9 rear mech, when i was in whistler for the last 3 weeks of the season i was getting lots of chain slap i even lost a couple of split links ( which i assume must have bounced out due to the amount of movement the chain was doing) in the bike park.
    i asked the boys at fanatyk about the problem and dave one of the mechsnics advised me to take out a couple of links from the chain. which i did , but this still doesnt seem to have solved the problem.
    now i know that the hammerschmidt is iscg05 tab mounted and thats how most of the chain devices/ tensioner thingies mount to. hence my question is there a chain device/ tensioner that will work with the hs.
    sorry if i have caused any confusion by putting chain tensioner i thought thats what they were called. i was meaning one of them things that goes round the crank with the little whhel/cog on it that keeps the chain tensioned. like the e13 and mrp ones.

    what else would you guys suggest for reducing or eliminating chain slap.
    would a short cage rear mech make a differance

  8. #8
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    Yeah, those are Chain Guides, not tensioners.

    The purpose of a tensioner is to take up chain slack only. A derailleur has a dual purpose, it guides the chain to the appropriate cogs on the rear cassette when a shift is called for, as well as take up chain slack. Ideally, a long cage derailleur has enough throw to be able to take up the slack from going from the largest gear in the rear cassette and also the larger big ring up front, to the smallest of both. That is quite a few inches. The problem is that this is not an ideal situation because it requires a lot from the tensioner (in this case a long cage derailleur). Some people find that they only need 2 rings up front, and use 2 rings and a bash. This makes it easier on the derailleur, and you might be able to get by with a medium cage derailleur, since the number of inches to tension is less, since you can then shorten your chain. Some people are even more extreme, and realize they will mostly be going downhill on their big bike, and opt to eliminate the front derailleur altogether and go with a single ring up front, usually with a chain guide of the sort you mentioned. Sometimes they need to use a medium cage derailleur, but sometimes they may be able to use a short cage derailleur. The difference is largely due to the suspension of the bike, since it moves a bit forward and back, as it goes through its travel.

    Essentially, having a Hammerschmidt up front is exactly like having a single chain ring and chain guide setup, from the perspective of the chain. Hence, anything that will work with a single ring up front and 9sp cassette in the rear will work with your bike. Now, since I have never heard of anyone that has a DT have the problems you are describing, I can't imagine it being a DT issue.

    I think we need more information. I suspect that the cassette you are using is old, or perhaps you have a new chain and kept the old cassette? The other issue, could be that your chainline is not ideal. Essentially, you want your most common gear to be the one where your chain is perfectly lined up with your front ring on the Hammerschmidt, a straight line. Some people will align it with one ring bigger in the rear, but the idea is the same. If it's ghost shifting in this gear, its probably a worn derailleur.

    Is this the same chain you had before you put on the Hammerschmidt? Did you take out any links when you first put the chain back on, with the HS installed? You may need to take out 4-5 links total....but I will let others with actual experience moving from a standard setup to a HS answer that, since, as you can tell from my photo, I do not have any derailleurs on my DT
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
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  9. #9
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    It sounds like the chain is just bouncing around a lot because it is too long or is aloud too much growth.

    Try running a short cage rear derailleur and make sure you don't have any more links than you need. This should tighten and quiet things up quite a bit.

    TG

  10. #10
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    Short cage was a massive improvement for me. I had the same problem.

  11. #11
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    thanks again guys for all the ino......


    rdhfreethought......
    the bike was built up in febuary using new parts. originally i had a 09 xtr crank (3 ring) i only used the bike for the 1st time when i arrived in whistler at the begining of the season. on about the 3rd day of my holiday i decided to swap the xtr for the h.s. the cassette chain and rear mech were all brand new ( or at least had 3 days of use on them) the h.s was fitted by coby at fanatyk.
    i have only used the bike as a whistler bike, as i mainly ride a hard tail here in the uk as they are easier to maintain and clean. so the dt has only seen 5 weeks of use this year in whistler. so the drive train parts are still like new. ( i am one of those bike tarts that cleans polishes and lubes after every ride) so i dont think it is a case of worn parts.
    when i swapped from the xtr to the h.s i did not remove anylinks from the chain. though like i said in my earlier post dave at fanatyk did advise me to take out a coupple which i did, though the chain was still bouncing like mad. there is no ghost shifting, it shifts smooth and perfect. it's just the issue with the chain slap.

  12. #12
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    I am seriously thinking about buying 2010 Delirium but i would like to use xt or xtr 3 ring setting for all mountain use. This is not common so do you think i will have some problems with my chain, front derailleur,... Does any body have experience with this kind of setting?

  13. #13
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    Wow... A 3 ring on a Delirium is not common. You can run a front derailieur so you should be able to run a three ring. However running a 3 ring would mean you'd have to run a longer rear derailieur and NO bashguard. The Delirium, in my experience and observation is a bike well suited to having a bashguard for regular/intended use, I find my hammerschmidt colliding with logs and rocks on a regular basis, in technical climbs and descents as well as just riding along on my local trails.

    Also, given the weight of the DT, you'd probably only be using the 3rd ring going downhill on buff trails where you don't have to worry about catching the big ring on large trail features/obstacles.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar
    Wow... A 3 ring on a Delirium is not common. You can run a front derailieur so you should be able to run a three ring. However running a 3 ring would mean you'd have to run a longer rear derailieur and NO bashguard. The Delirium, in my experience and observation is a bike well suited to having a bashguard for regular/intended use, I find my hammerschmidt colliding with logs and rocks on a regular basis, in technical climbs and descents as well as just riding along on my local trails.

    Also, given the weight of the DT, you'd probably only be using the 3rd ring going downhill on buff trails where you don't have to worry about catching the big ring on large trail features/obstacles.
    There are many bashguards that work with a triple ring setup. I used a Blackspire for several years. Newer ones are much lighter and attach to the ISCG tabs, you may have to omit the chainguide on some models ( http://www.sicklines.com/reviews/mrp...guide-review/). However, if you setup a front derailleur correctly, it will never fall off to the outside of the big ring, and you can use a stop like the Ngear Jumpstop: http://www.gvtc.com/~ngear/whatis.html to keep it from falling off to the inside.

    Considering the new DT is so much lighter, using it with an XTR setup and AM top of the line wheelset, and the right fork, Easton DH carbon bars, Point1 stem, 2.35 tires, etc means a 35-36lb durable, park capable bike is possible. I would love to ride something like that, since mine is about 45 lbs with the Hammerschmidt/Alfine and 2.8 tires.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashi
    I am seriously thinking about buying 2010 Delirium but i would like to use xt or xtr 3 ring setting for all mountain use. This is not common so do you think i will have some problems with my chain, front derailleur,... Does any body have experience with this kind of setting?
    My mechanic is an idiot (me), but I was never able to get the E-type derailluer happy when I was using one. My final solution was to set it up so that I was using all three shifts of adjustment on a two ring setup to minimize chain rub. A proper mechanic who knows how to set up an E-type shouldn't have as many problems as I did, but I honestly don't understand why you would want a third ring...

  16. #16
    shh. don't tell the wife
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashi
    I am seriously thinking about buying 2010 Delirium but i would like to use xt or xtr 3 ring setting for all mountain use. This is not common so do you think i will have some problems with my chain, front derailleur,... Does any body have experience with this kind of setting?
    Knolly Delirium T: Build Information, Photos and Set-up Thread

    I ran a triple all year without any front shifting problems. I did develope some chain suck issues at the end of the year but it was all due to a bashed up rear derailleur

    As part of my DT's end of year changes I replaced the big ring with a bash guard as I rarely spent any time in the big ring. The bike also gained some weight via 3C tyres
    All you need is love... but Scotch'll do in a pinch.

  17. #17
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    Thank you for all the answers!!! Appreciate!!!



    Well I can hardly wait for march or April that i can buy new Delirium. Well, i am not sure how to build light but durable enough all mountain version with 3 ring setup.



    Any suggestions? Fork (Fox 16 cm or RS 18 cm),.. (crankset, shifters, rear d. front d.)Shamano XT or XTR, or Sram X.0,..?, wheel-set?, Brakes Formula, Magura,...stem, seat post (adjustable), saddle,tires, ? What do you think? Lets try to build perfect Alps - all mountain Delirium 2010 that can climb but can also make you crazy when you go dawn.

  18. #18
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    Hi delirian!

    Hum - sorry I missed this thread earlier on!

    Anyway, here is some info that might help you out.

    If I understand you correctly, when you purchased your Delirium T new, it had a three ring XTR crankset on it, which would have required a long cage rear derailleur to work properly in all gear combinations.

    However, it sounds like after a short while, you replaced the triple ring XTR crankset with a HammerSchmidt.

    Assuming this is the case, then the following is probably true:

    Your Chain: you now have way too long a chain because you're driving the bike all the time from either 22 or 24 tooth sized chainring instead of a 32 tooth middle chain ring and occasionally a 44 tooth large chain ring. You will want to remove a fair bit of chain - just enough so that you can use all gear ratios as well as allowing for chain stay length growth throughout the frame's travel and a bit extra (like an inch) for your rear derailleur.

    Your Rear Derailleur: as others have said, ,switching to a short cage rear derailleur will make a big difference in how tight the chain is held. Since you only have one chain ring up front, you don't need the long cage rear derailleur to cover all of the possibly granny, middle, and big ring combinations up front.

    If you haven't addressed these two issues, that is where I would start. Part one won't cost you anything apart from a bit of time to shorten your chain. Obviously, part two will require you to purchase a new rear derailleur. You'll also want to protect the drive side chain stay from chain slap a bit as well: the stick on "loop" velcro does wonders here as we've all learned from the DH race scene.

    I think that this would be the best place to start and then see where things go from there. I agree that having a guide wheel tucked up behind the chain ring is a nice option as well, but as far as I know, nothing is currently available to do that yet with HS.

    Cheers!
    Last edited by knollybikes.com; 12-19-2009 at 10:22 PM.
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  19. #19
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    thanks for that noel..... and thanks guys for all the advice. i guess i got to start hunting for a reasonably priced short cage derailieur now .......

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hashi
    I am seriously thinking about buying 2010 Delirium but i would like to use xt or xtr 3 ring setting for all mountain use. This is not common so do you think i will have some problems with my chain, front derailleur,... Does any body have experience with this kind of setting?
    i did have an 09 3 ring xtr crank on my dt originally with an etype front mech and had no trouble with shifting, it worked fine. though maybe with a little bit of chain rub.
    as you can see from the pics in this thread the bash guard bodge.
    you can get a bash guard to fit. make sure you order the correct one though or you will have to bodge it like i did.

  21. #21
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    I've had a Shimano XT shadow deraileur on my DT for two full seasons now and I think it's the best setup so far. It has seen lot's of abuse but still works like the day it was put on.

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