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  1. #1
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    Can't get CCDB Coil to feel good on the Chilly...am I an idiot?!

    So I've been having this love/hate relationship with my CCDB coil for about a year. I keep thinking that I'll tinker my way into the perfect setting, but I just can't get the damn thing to feel good. I've started at the recommended base tune over and over and have really tried to dial the thing in, but it just always seems to feel harsh on high speed chatter and doesn't seem to soak up bigger hits. I've played around with backing off on the HSC, but then it seems to feel all wonky, like it's blowing through the first part of it's travel too fast. I always go back to my RP23 because it feels better to me. I'm a chronic micro-adjuster and it blows my mind that I can't get the CCDB dialed. I know, I know....get a Woodie, right. Short of getting a new shock, any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    Buy my AValanche tuned DHX. Best $275 you can spend on your Chili.

    In all seriousness, have you tried different spring rates? Maybe try moving down a rate and see if that helps with the small bump. Then you can run a bit more HSC. In my small amount of time on a ccdb coil it felt better with a softer spring rate than I ran on other coil shocks.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    So I've been having this love/hate relationship with my CCDB coil for about a year. I keep thinking that I'll tinker my way into the perfect setting, but I just can't get the damn thing to feel good. I've started at the recommended base tune over and over and have really tried to dial the thing in, but it just always seems to feel harsh on high speed chatter and doesn't seem to soak up bigger hits. I've played around with backing off on the HSC, but then it seems to feel all wonky, like it's blowing through the first part of it's travel too fast. I always go back to my RP23 because it feels better to me. I'm a chronic micro-adjuster and it blows my mind that I can't get the CCDB dialed. I know, I know....get a Woodie, right. Short of getting a new shock, any suggestions?
    What sag #s are you running? How many turns of preload are you running to obtain those #s?

  4. #4
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    Because the CCDB has an amazing range of adjustment, it is easy to make it perform poorly by putting in settings that don't work for your bike, trail conditions and riding style. Shocks like an RP23 are easy to set up and get 80-90% of the performance out of your frame, but that is as far as they go. If you have the CCDB dialed correctly you can get that extra bit of performance, but it takes a bit more work to get there.

    I have dialed in a few CCDB shocks and I always go with the following method. It usually takes me about 5-6 rides before I feel I have the settings where I am happy. To start with, check your sag and make sure it is appropriate. It is very hard to get an improperly sprung shock to feel good. If the sag is right, then I start off with everything wide open (no damping). I find it works best if you only change one setting at a time. If you are prone to make a lot of adjustments, then when you get something that feels halfway decent, not the settings so you can get back to it. Also note what you like and don't like about the settings. Note that the bike will feel awful with it all the way open and won't necessarily react well until you get a few settings close, but I find doing it this way you can easily focus on what one setting is doing.

    Now find a short section of trail that you can test your descending on. It should be a shortish section that you can session, and has a good variety of terrain. Work with the high speed compression first. Dial it in so that you don't go through all of your travel on bigger drops, but you should be able to use nearly all of your travel. Next up is high speed rebound. Dial it in so the bike feels controlled, especially when riding through stutter bumps. It should be lively enough that it doesn't pack up, but you don't want it rebounding so quick that it is bucking you in the stutters.

    To set the low speed compression, find a climbing section that has a mixture of smooth and technical climbing. The low speed compression is designed to minimize pedal bob. I generally run very little low speed compression because a small amount of pedal bob does not bother me, and I prefer to have the extra traction that an active suspension gives me. Dial this in until you get to a level of bob you like, but try it with different settings on the technical climbing parts to see the difference in tire traction you get.

    Finally the low speed rebound. This really works with the low speed compression and determines how quickly the shock rebounds from small bumps and other low speed events. Note that by low speed events, I mean the shaft speed of the shock, not how fast you are going, but there is often some correlation to your riding speed. Again I like this setting fairly open as I like to feel what the bike is doing under me. You will feel the effect of any bob a bit less as you dial this in, so you may want to experiment with a bit less low speed compression after you set this.

    Remember to dial in one thing at a time, and note what you are changing from, as it is easy to . Also note that a parking lot setup and/or test of settings is the worst thing you can do for this because you are not working it enough. If you only have one or two settings such as an RP23, you can get away with it fairly easy, but the CCDB need a trail setup.

    Good luck.

  5. #5
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    Thanks alot Bryan. I've been having some trouble getting my CCDB to feel decent on my Delirium as well (I switched back to an RP23 in the mean time). I'll follow your guide next spring and try to set it up right.

    Thanks!

  6. #6
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    Yes, I have tried different spring rates. I started with 450 and had trouble getting 33% sag so I switched to 400. That gives me about 4 turns of preload. I'm 175 RTR. Maybe I should try a 350 lb spring for giggles.

    Bryan, I haven't tried backing all adjustments out and starting from scratch. Guess that's worth a try. Seems like a nearly a year of fiddle farting around with it and I would have found the sweet spot.

    G-air, your shock is tempting. Do you think I'm close enough in weight to use the same tune? Is is that big an improvement over the CCDB?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    Yes, I have tried different spring rates. I started with 450 and had trouble getting 33% sag so I switched to 400. That gives me about 4 turns of preload. I'm 175 RTR. Maybe I should try a 350 lb spring for giggles.

    Bryan, I haven't tried backing all adjustments out and starting from scratch. Guess that's worth a try. Seems like a nearly a year of fiddle farting around with it and I would have found the sweet spot.

    G-air, your shock is tempting. Do you think I'm close enough in weight to use the same tune? Is is that big an improvement over the CCDB?
    Yes the Avy will be a big improvement over the CCDB IMO. I had a CCDB coil on my Chili prior to getting my Woodie. I had no intentions on getting a Woodie, however I was unhappy with the HSC on the CCBD. I noticed on square hits it was very harsh. I initially thought I was bottoming out, but after some time with Craig I understood that the CCDB just can't move enough oil to address the rising rate of the Chili's suspension. The Woodie can move a tone more oil than the CCDB, and the harshness is gone. I really appreciated the LSC/LSR of the CCDB as it works great. However, the LSC on the Woodie is nearly as good. According to Craig, his DHX modded shocks are as good as the Woodie.

    You certainly won't find the performance per dollar of G-AIRs DHX anywhere else. I bet his tune is very close to what you need. It is worth calling Craig too, he is very knowledgeable when it comes to Knolly bikes, and he may know more about the CCDB than Cane Creek does.

    Having said all that, I would suggest starting over with BryanS' suggestions.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  8. #8
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    tiss'er, I think that harshness is probably what I'm feeling. Seems like I can get the CCDB feeling pretty good on most terrain, but then I hit something at high speed and I get this horrible jolt like it just bottomed out. I'll dink around with it some more to be sure, but that Avy's DHX might be the ticket.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    tiss'er, I think that harshness is probably what I'm feeling. Seems like I can get the CCDB feeling pretty good on most terrain, but then I hit something at high speed and I get this horrible jolt like it just bottomed out. I'll dink around with it some more to be sure, but that Avy's DHX might be the ticket.

    That is exactly what I felt. I liked it for 90% of the stuff we do. However, on the faster rides with square hits, it would almost hurt. I could hear my tire bottom out on the rim in most cases.
    "Three balls at once...who knew?" - Cotton McKnight

  10. #10
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    I'm about 90kg and i think i either got the 350 or 400 spring. It's titanium so don't know if that makes any performance enhancements. I find the stock settings perfect though and have not touched the adjustments once.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    So I've been having this love/hate relationship with my CCDB coil for about a year. ...and it blows my mind that I can't get the CCDB dialed. I know, I know....get a Woodie, right. Short of getting a new shock, any suggestions?
    You are not alone.
    Tried to got DB Coil working with Chilly. Got it working 95% in fast downs. Got it working 95% in slow technical climbs. But not with same settings / adjustments. Required two different ones. Even after two internal tunings. Same with DB Air. And with Vivid Air. No experience about DB Air CS.

    Woodie is a different animal. With one same settings/ adjustments it`s working almost perfect in both - downhill and uphill. Let`s say that it`s 95% in both. Then there`s BOS Kirk, using the same scale - 100% up, maybe 95% down. Cannot really judge which one is better, Woodie or Kirk, but in my local rides only shock IŽve used past months has been Kirk. But if youŽll get Woodie WITH optimal tune, it cannot go wrong.

  12. #12
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    pergamonx, that's interesting and very similar to my experience. Can't quite get it tuned where I feel like I don't have to mess around with it for optimum uphill/downhill. I'm finding I just like flipping the switch of my RP23 better so I can get more optimal uphill/downhill performance even though the CCDB is actually better at both. It's just a pain to switch settings with the CCDB.

  13. #13
    Just roll it......
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    I wouldn't call myself a Luddite, but I became so frustrated with the old CCDB I had on an older bike that I sold it. As most will state, it's an amazing shock, but I couldn't get it "quite right" for every situation and I got so frustrated that I just put the old RC4 back on the bike.

    I realize the rp23 probably doesn't perform as well on the Chilcotin, but I can always set it up so it's really good. Maybe not great, but good enough (gasp!) for whatever riding I'm doing. I much prefer to ride my bikes than tinker....sometimes you just gotta know your strengths! lol

    EB

  14. #14
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    I hear ya, EB. Over the past year I've gotten fed up with the CCDB and switched back to my RP23 like 5 times, only to be lured back by glowing reviews of the CCDB. I'll put the CCDB back on thinking that I just missed the "perfect" combo by a "click" or "quarter turn" only to drive myself nuts on the next few rides. I really do like to tinker, but I like riding even more.

    Honestly, the RP23 on the Chilcotin performs way better than any previous frame combo I've had with an RP23. For sure not perfect, but dang good in most situations.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanderson View Post
    I hear ya, EB. Over the past year I've gotten fed up with the CCDB and switched back to my RP23 like 5 times, only to be lured back by glowing reviews of the CCDB. I'll put the CCDB back on thinking that I just missed the "perfect" combo by a "click" or "quarter turn" only to drive myself nuts on the next few rides. I really do like to tinker, but I like riding even more.

    Honestly, the RP23 on the Chilcotin performs way better than any previous frame combo I've had with an RP23. For sure not perfect, but dang good in most situations.
    Good to hear. I have an RP23 on the way from knolly to replace my CCDBA. I got fed up with the constant tinkering that I would do and always having to carry the tool with me. The killing blow to the CCDB was the fact that I would break them every few weeks and cane creek would patch it up only for it to break again.

  16. #16
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    So many princesses in here, I suspect many will never be comfortable. That's a mental hurdle no product will fix.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

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