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  1. #1
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    Cane creek air to coil

    Not sure if anyone's had any experience going from CCDB air to the coil?

    I think i'm going to do this because my friend has a coil i might be able to buy off him.

    The CCDB air is good but i've ridden on coils and I think I prefer that.

    So if anyone's tried both any thoughts?

    Also i'm between spring sizes according to the knolly website. I'm 210lb kitted up. That places me between spring sizes 450 and 500. Any advice on which spring size should I buy?

  2. #2
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    Tom don't you know that unless you out on an avalanche shock your chilcotin is rendered useless and unrideable ? PS if you really are 210 lbs kitted up go 450.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    Tom don't you know that unless you out on an avalanche shock your chilcotin is rendered useless and unrideable ? PS if you really are 210 lbs kitted up go 450.
    +1 on 450 - I'm a bit heavier than you, running a different shock, but was told I should run the 450 unless I tip the scales over 215-220.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    Tom don't you know that unless you out on an avalanche shock your chilcotin is rendered useless and unrideable ? PS if you really are 210 lbs kitted up go 450.
    Is the avalanche shock much better is it?

    Thanks guys 450 it is then!

  5. #5
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    450 for the Delirium T
    450 for the Delirium
    450 for the Podium

    sorry, no Chili

    michael
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Is the avalanche shock much better is it?

    Thanks guys 450 it is then!
    I don't know I was being a d!ck due to all the rave reviews everyone posts here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    I don't know I was being a d!ck due to all the rave reviews everyone posts here.
    I'll know in a week. CCDB for the past 6 months, Woody should be here soon.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Is the avalanche shock much better is it?

    Thanks guys 450 it is then!
    Both are great shocks.

  9. #9
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    Update: Overall I second CZ's statement that both the CCDB and Woody are great shocks. Both are absolutely up to the task of handling DH, chunky freeride trails, and climbing nasty ledges. The Chili is a great frame and both shocks highlight this.

    After a 2.5 hr pedal through techy XC this Saturday, I noticed a few differences. First, the Woody is much more dialed out of the box. My CCDB had four solid days of tuning before I was happy, and the Woody all-around was close or slightly better out of the box.

    Second, the mid-stroke valving is more controlled on the Woody. Less bobbing on flat pedally stuff and fewer strikes in rock gardens.

    At this time, small bump sensitivity is close, with a nod to the Woody. Both are plush on big hits and drops to flat.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    I don't know I was being a d!ck due to all the rave reviews everyone posts here.
    Oh, no you weren't.....it threatens to usurp the _dw link spew .
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom34 View Post
    Not sure if anyone's had any experience going from CCDB air to the coil?
    ----
    So if anyone's tried both any thoughts?
    .....
    My 2cents; Ive both, DB Coil and DB Air. And Chilly. With both shocks ridden more than 200 hours. DB coil is not anymore a stock one; mr Stendec re-shimmed it once and local suspension wizard here once more - now it`s GOOD. Using ti-springs. DB Air is pretty much standard one - there was no need to get an improved aircan- those little holes worked well in my shock, got all travel w/o any pain.

    Both are good. Have ridden with DB Air several weeks in Alps, where one downhill / enduro run can last >20mins w/o any problems. You can burn your fingers touching shock body after run, but no feeding ...

    Really can`t say which one is better. I can adjust both working such similar, that in blind test 95% of riders cannot recoqnize which one is bolted on frame, but adjustments (knob positions) are rather different between coil and air if similar behavior is wanted.

    If I had to choose only one DB, if would be Air. Because of weight and because of adjustability, it`s larger compared to coil.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pergamonx View Post
    My 2cents; Ive both, DB Coil and DB Air. And Chilly. With both shocks ridden more than 200 hours. DB coil is not anymore a stock one; mr Stendec re-shimmed it once and local suspension wizard here once more - now it`s GOOD. Using ti-springs. DB Air is pretty much standard one - there was no need to get an improved aircan- those little holes worked well in my shock, got all travel w/o any pain.

    Both are good. Have ridden with DB Air several weeks in Alps, where one downhill / enduro run can last >20mins w/o any problems. You can burn your fingers touching shock body after run, but no feeding ...

    Really can`t say which one is better. I can adjust both working such similar, that in blind test 95% of riders cannot recoqnize which one is bolted on frame, but adjustments (knob positions) are rather different between coil and air if similar behavior is wanted.

    If I had to choose only one DB, if would be Air. Because of weight and because of adjustability, it`s larger compared to coil.
    i still dont know what to think about all this. so if gillespie is right then youd be aswell selling both of your shocks, getting a woodie and putting a few hundred bucks into your back pocket?

    but i find it hard to believe that a small outfit like ava can outdo the mighty cane creek or fox, how does that work?

    it makes me think some people cant tune a shock for themselves, am i right?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    i still dont know what to think about all this. so if gillespie is right then youd be aswell selling both of your shocks, getting a woodie and putting a few hundred bucks into your back pocket?

    but i find it hard to believe that a small outfit like ava can outdo the mighty cane creek or fox, how does that work?

    it makes me think some people cant tune a shock for themselves, am i right?
    Totally right on this front.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    Totally right on this front.
    ...and to be totally fair...a tune should be done in a few hours riding. I think its not working out if people are still tinkering with the adjustments weeks, months and even years, lol, later, in an attempt to dial these in.
    The joke is that it took Cane Creek 12 months to develop the CCDB, and 5 years to write the owners manual LOL.

    Im going with the CCDB coil later in the year and getting a highly rep'd bike mechanic to dial it in for my weight. Snapshot the settings, then play around with it myself to see how it works.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    ...and to be totally fair...a tune should be done in a few hours riding. I think its not working out if people are still tinkering with the adjustments weeks, months and even years, lol, later, in an attempt to dial these in.
    The joke is that it took Cane Creek 12 months to develop the CCDB, and 5 years to write the owners manual LOL.

    Im going with the CCDB coil later in the year and getting a highly rep'd bike mechanic to dial it in for my weight. Snapshot the settings, then play around with it myself to see how it works.
    Nah, I cannot fault someone for re-tuning all the time. Conditions change, weight fluctuates, trail selection determines what the ideal settings might be.

    As a matter of fact, I was happy to plug & play the Avy, given how good it felt out of the box, and realized there were certain high-speed washboard areas where it was packing up. Given that these comprise such a small percentage of my riding, it took a month to get out there and do a dedicated set of runs to bracket the settings for that kind of terrain.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    i still dont know what to think about all this. so if gillespie is right then youd be aswell selling both of your shocks, getting a woodie and putting a few hundred bucks into your back pocket?

    but i find it hard to believe that a small outfit like ava can outdo the mighty cane creek or fox, how does that work?

    it makes me think some people cant tune a shock for themselves, am i right?
    Avy can easily compete with (often times best) the big companies. Avy shocks are built to the riders weight, style of riding, bike design, and leverage curves. They are custom tuned specifically for you. The big companies have to cover a large spectrum with their shocks. They might work great for some but not for all.

    I have ridden the ccdb coil and air, and an Avy dhx. In the end the Avy felt the best (I would have been very happy with the db coil) and was hassle free when it came to tuning. It was also a less expensive route.

    Until you have tried an Avy shock please reserve your opinions and hold off on the condescending remarks.

    TG

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    i still dont know what to think about all this. so if gillespie is right then youd be aswell selling both of your shocks, getting a woodie and putting a few hundred bucks into your back pocket?
    ....
    The question was comparing DB coil vs DB air, right?
    There's no need to sell DB's, they are funny toys. I've Woodie too. And quite many other shocks, all tuned for Chilly. Time to take my coat

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    i still dont know what to think about all this. so if gillespie is right then youd be aswell selling both of your shocks, getting a woodie and putting a few hundred bucks into your back pocket?
    Maybe I can assist in sorting it out, and if not, MrWhlr will be arriving soon...

    A lot of "what's best" scenarios depend way too much on bike setup,terrain, riding style, rider ability, finances, etc., etc. For my riding, I don't care about weight and I'm a suspension geek. IMO, the Woody is the best performing shock for my style. If you're into 6 hr grinding climbs and racing XC, then a CTD or DB Air may be the best for you. If you're looking for a Delirium replacement and running a coil fork, then the CCDB or Woody may be your best option.

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    but i find it hard to believe that a small outfit like ava can outdo the mighty cane creek or fox, how does that work?
    Exactly like what was said before... (a) The shock is custom shimmed and valved for rider weight, style, and bike, allowing for a more usable threshold of external adjustment, easier setup, etc.; (b) Avalanche uses a great design with very high quality parts, so regardless of how big the company is the unit is only as good as the sum of the parts, so with the rubber bladder system, giant res., and better valving in the Woody, you get a better product.

    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    it makes me think some people cant tune a shock for themselves, am i right?
    Dunno who your pointing that finger at frenchy, but I've been tuning race shocks for a while.





    In all seriousness, you are 100% correct. The regular users of this forum are certainly in a small group with more knowledge than the general mtn biking population, but for the most part, mtn bikers have no freakin clue how to tune a suspension. Most ride it like it was set up from the LBS who built it and do not understand what any of the adjustments actually do.

  19. #19
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    i have quite a confrontational writing style but im not trying to rain other peoples parades. sorry if i come accross hostile, i dont mean it in a bad way.

    I was happy to plug & play the Avy, given how good it felt out of the box, and realized there were certain high-speed washboard areas where it was packing up.
    does this mean it was hooking up on brake bumps? do you mean the rear was too stiff?

    okay the point about the big guns making shocks with generic 'one config fits all' clarified things a little, and if ava gets around this and ups your performance then thats great, but i bet i could still rip past most of you with an rp23 (you with your woodies on) on the Fort William WC DH track

    thats an invitation to scotland all! anyone up for the challenge? ive got great whisky here that you can drown your sorrows with
    just scottish 'banter', but your welcome, if your up for it.

    tweedlove is a scottish mtb festival (on my doorstep) and gwinn and peaty will be there. i think sam hills going to turn up on his new nukeproof aswell and take part in the weekends dh race.
    the next weekend is the opening of the 2013 DH WC with Fort Bill in Scotland hosting the first race (June 8-9, 2013 Fort William, Scotland).

    why dont you 'all' of you knolly guys bring your bikes with woodies an all and come and have a party in scotland for a fortnight? i have room for 8 lol.
    Last edited by cfrench; 04-08-2013 at 02:29 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    but i bet i could still rip past most of you with an rp23 (you with your woodies on) on the Fort William WC DH track

    thats an invitation to scotland all! you up for the challenge?
    If that's not an e-ride, you probably would!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    i have quite a confrontational writing style but im not trying to rain other peoples parades. sorry if i come accross hostile, i dont mean it in a bad way.

    i bet i could still rip past most of you with an rp23 (you with your woodies on) on the Fort William WC DH track

    thats an invitation to scotland all! you up for the challenge?

    Are you looking for real advice and technical information, or an e-penis measuring contest?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    Are you looking for real advice and technical information, or an e-penis measuring contest?
    No, he's saying he can out-ride those who can out-type him. Let it sink in a while.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by B Gillespie View Post
    Are you looking for real advice and technical information, or an e-penis measuring contest?
    i cant stop laughing...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    No, he's saying he can out-ride those who can out-type him. Let it sink in a while.
    hey sorry for flame-throwering you over the redcoats comment the other week, no hard feelings.

    seriously note: im not a bike geek. i dont really believe in it as much as you guys.
    ive got mates that can ride Fort William faster on a hardtail than i can ride it on a bouncy bike and im less than 40 seconds behind the pros (and about a minute behind on my hardtail). i just wonder sometimes if the technology is worth it and/or makes you a significantly better rider. you understand?

  25. #25
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    Regarding tuning the CCDB.
    I really don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    IMO, it is much harder to tune something line a DHX or similar where you have boost pressure, bottom out, pro-pedal that all effect each other quite significantly.
    Makes it quite the round-robin event where you set something then go around in circles for a few rounds tweaking the other settings, cause the first change ended up throwing the others our of whack.

    CCDB coil was easier to setup, and now is pretty much a set and forget. I run two tunes, slightly different on the Delirium, one for trail riding, and the other for gravity/park riding.

    Would like to try an Ava shock....

    michael
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