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  1. #1
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    Best shock for the Endo?

    Just bought a new Endo (to tag team with my Chilcotin which is getting a Woodie in the next few days..its currently waiting to get on the plane at JFK Airport according to the tracking) and Endo shock options seem to be:

    Avalanche Chubie (or the Woodie..if it fits on an Endo?)
    CCDB Air (standard)...as cant get Knolly CS tune aftermarket.
    CCDB Coil (standard)
    Rockshox Monarch RC3

    ..and new on the market:
    FOX Float-X
    BOS The Kirk
    BOS Vipr2

    Really not sure which would be the best option to pair with the Endos 4x4.

    Im not fussed about the weight of the shock as the rest of the bike will be built up really light.

    Any suggestions?
    Last edited by cfrench; 08-10-2013 at 10:53 AM.

  2. #2
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    I think the Kirk might be a good match but if your blown away with the Woodie when it arrives, I suppose it would be tempting to try and fit one to an Endo. What are the forks?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    I think the Kirk might be a good match but if your blown away with the Woodie when it arrives, I suppose it would be tempting to try and fit one to an Endo. What are the forks?
    bos deville 140 am (when they arrive), also got 36 floats 160mm here which i can lower to 150mm (10 min job), theyre on the chili just now but im after a pair of deville 160mm aswell

  4. #4
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    would the woodie fit the endo,,, that could be an idea lol... chris what does the woodie weigh.

  5. #5
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    On my 2011 Endo, I just started using an Avalanche modded DHX3. I've got to say, the Avy modded DHX blew the old shocks (DHX Air and DHX Coil 3.0 stock) out of the water. I was going faster and with more control, even if trails were sloppy. So I would probably vote for the Avy shock on your list.
    SCB Nomad, SCB 5010v2, Turner RFX, Voodoo D-jab 650B, Voodoo Wazoo CX/commuter
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  6. #6
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    Pike kicks ass!!

    Just threw a 150mm Pike on the Endo y'day and got my first ride. Impressive!! 100% stoked.

    I had been futzing with a Revelation on the Endo and have really been struggling to enjoy it ever since i got it. Changed the damping fluid (twice) etc..etc.....the Pike is a different story. Chucked in both volume spacers and set the pressure to the mid of the range for my weight.... didnt take the time to measure sag. I also didnt change a single dial on the fork as it felt pretty good in the garage. Love looking down on those beefy black stanchions.

    On the trail i felt totally comfortable within seconds and within a minute or two I was shredding with confidence on the 'small' bike.

    Y'days ride was as sweet as any run i have taken down this trail i maintain. On one specific pretty gnarly rock roll....i felt like i had an extra second before hitting the wild / fast corner at the bottom...it was pretty awesome...I literally had time to realize how stable and controlled / confident i was feeling and delayed my braking appropriately. It was quite an surreal experience. (Oh hey!!! I am normally shitting myself right about now...but wow...I actually feel in control!!)

    The new fork comes a ride or two after finally dialing the rear end of the bike appropriately. I am running the RP23 (originally off the Chilly) which I had pushed. PUSH inserted a Large volume spacer - which i found to NOT be enough ramp up for my given sag (+- 30%). I decided to - in addition - insert the plastic sleeve mod into the air sleeve. I started with a small piece of plastic and three times (after each ride) increased the dimensions of the insert. I finally feel like i have the end stroke support i need and the suppleness in the initial stroke. Interestingly when the RP23 was on the Chilly....all i used was the same plastic insert (without the internal Fox volume spacer).

    The bike is feeling totally totally awesome. Stoked. Not to mention the black looks pretty bad ass.

    Good luck with your choice dude!

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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the update. I am have been seriously eyeing the Pike and then talked myself out of it. Damn you

    Interesting to hear about the rear shock. I wonder if the shock spacers are similar between the Endorphin and Chilcotin.

    BTW - the all black looks amazing!!! Best looking Endorphin that I have seen!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Just threw a 150mm Pike on the Endo y'day and got my first ride. Impressive!! 100% stoked.

    I had been futzing with a Revelation on the Endo and have really been struggling to enjoy it ever since i got it. Changed the damping fluid (twice) etc..etc.....the Pike is a different story. Chucked in both volume spacers and set the pressure to the mid of the range for my weight.... didnt take the time to measure sag. I also didnt change a single dial on the fork as it felt pretty good in the garage. Love looking down on those beefy black stanchions.
    Not what I needed to hear. I am very close to pulling the trigger on a PIKE but having a hard time justifying another 150mm fork. I am running a 2011 Revelation. I just sold the Chili and will be using the ENDO as my one bike for the foreseeable future. The Pike seems great on paper; better dampening, stouter, and damn light.

    Did you consider the 160 Pike at all?

    Good to hear you are out ripping again,
    TG

  9. #9
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    So I suppose you guys don't want to hear that what I think of the Pike on my Endo coming from a Revelation pretty much echos what Mutton said about his Pike? (except I'd still be shitting my pants in spots compared to him, hahahaha.)

    Did I push anyone over the edge yet?
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  10. #10
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    But on the shock front, I think I'm about to the point where I'm going to send me CTD to Push, and maybe put that big hit option on it.

    I thought about getting a DB-Air CS, and having the two settings of the switch set as either open/DH on one end, and more trail/pedal friendly on the other. But the DB Air weight bugs me for the Endo, and pretty much anytime I'd throw the lever and open up the shock, I'd be on a trail where I'd rather have the Chili.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    So I suppose you guys don't want to hear that what I think of the Pike on my Endo coming from a Revelation pretty much echos what Mutton said about his Pike? (except I'd still be shitting my pants in spots compared to him, hahahaha.)

    Did I push anyone over the edge yet?
    haha - very close. You started the madness!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    haha - very close. You started the madness!
    Why you pointing fingers at me man?!?!?! LOL
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Not what I needed to hear. I am very close to pulling the trigger on a PIKE but having a hard time justifying another 150mm fork. I am running a 2011 Revelation. I just sold the Chili and will be using the ENDO as my one bike for the foreseeable future. The Pike seems great on paper; better dampening, stouter, and damn light.

    Did you consider the 160 Pike at all?

    Good to hear you are out ripping again,
    TG
    Only to be made better by an Avy damper (rumored)
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  14. #14
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    What? Avy damper for a Pike? But it's an air fork, and we all know how Craig feels about air and heavier guys. haha.

    Seriously, Avy damper for the Pike is coming???
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  15. #15
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    I guess the question now is 150 or 160

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    What? Avy damper for a Pike? But it's an air fork, and we all know how Craig feels about air and heavier guys. haha.

    Seriously, Avy damper for the Pike is coming???
    That's what I have heard. I've heard that the Charger damper is a direct rip off of the FOX FIT damper. I wouldn't be surprised if SRAM will have a lawsuit on their hands soon. And while I'm at it, I have also heard that Avy may be working on making air damper kits in the near future. Key work here is MAY. Sounds like they are testing all kinds of ideas to improve positive and negative air springs. Getting rid of the dual air system is about the worst thing SRAM ever did to air forks.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Not to mention the black looks pretty bad ass.
    Priceless shot chops! The all black Endo with the all black pooch sitting up at attention. Sounds like you've got it dialed too. Maybe I should quit looking at all these 29er/27.5 short travel options for my chili complement and just get an Endo. Dang nice bike.
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  18. #18
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    Another vote for the the Avy, but give an DHX air the Avy treatment. Had one done for my The One, very impressed. Super responsive, just like all the Avy upgrades, its a high performance custom modification.

  19. #19
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    So how much abuse can the Pike handle? For reference, I am using a lowered (150mm) Fox Float 36 RC2. I am using the Fox Float for the RC2 and stiffness. I welcome any thoughts.

    Thanks!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Getting rid of the dual air system is about the worst thing SRAM ever did to air forks.
    Well said. My Dual Air Pike was a great fork.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    That's what I have heard. I've heard that the Charger damper is a direct rip off of the FOX FIT damper. I wouldn't be surprised if SRAM will have a lawsuit on their hands soon. And while I'm at it, I have also heard that Avy may be working on making air damper kits in the near future. Key work here is MAY. Sounds like they are testing all kinds of ideas to improve positive and negative air springs. Getting rid of the dual air system is about the worst thing SRAM ever did to air forks.
    Interesting. I wonder if that's the case what SRAM did differently, since the Pike gets rave reviews and the FIT didn't, best of my knowledge.
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  22. #22
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    my Woodie fitted my M endo. Felt wierd though - I am guessing it needs a different tune to the Chilly?
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Did you consider the 160 Pike at all?

    TG
    I didnt consider the 160 at all. This bike is currently inspiring me with enough confidence it it made my balls any bigger i doubt i could get behind the saddle

    Seriously tho', I just think about the sh1t the pro's ride on their 150 / 160 forks (speed / braking forces / steeps) and i feel totally comfortable that my same fork will hold up to anything i do.

    If the boss says this bike rolls best with a 150 fork then I just roll with it.

    RE: injury. Thanks dude. It is totally awesome to be back. I always see things hollistically and the injury was good for me. I was starting to pull the piss on the bike and that was a gentle reminder that sh1t can happen. When i get injured I always take the time to do different things and I did a ton of cool stuff with my wife. It also made me appreciate my health a whole lot more and also appreciate what a privilege it is to be able to hop on a bike and go for a ride. When i was recovering i was just as happy doing a 40 mile gravel road ride with my wife as I am hitting my DH trails. Riding / bikes are not something I do OR its not a hobby or sport....i realized its who i am. Its part of my life.
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  24. #24
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    Plenty abuse dude. I rode the Chilly on the same trails y'day as I had ridden the Endo on Friday and I felt no significant difference. I ended up adding some compression to the 36 after noticing more dive. Out the box the Pike was impressive. Makes me want to ride the Endo more.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    But on the shock front, I think I'm about to the point where I'm going to send me CTD to Push, and maybe put that big hit option on it.

    I thought about getting a DB-Air CS, and having the two settings of the switch set as either open/DH on one end, and more trail/pedal friendly on the other. But the DB Air weight bugs me for the Endo, and pretty much anytime I'd throw the lever and open up the shock, I'd be on a trail where I'd rather have the Chili.
    You know, this is interesting me me. I do not like my CTD lever shock, I didn't like RP23 or RP3 or any of that crap that I tried over the years. I want TRUE high and low speed compression adjustment, like I had on my avalanche. I want to be able to set it up for decent low-speed compression support so it's not wallowing everywhere, bottoming in hard g-outs or drops, etc, but I ALSO want it to blow off easily for sharp edged impacts and to get smoother the faster I go through rough terrain. This is what true adjustability on my avalanche shocks allowed for (and my avalanche fork, although I had to take the shim stack out to adjust high speed). On lever-actuated air shocks it's just terrible. In the D setting it has fine high speed characteristics, but the absolute lack of low-speed control is not desirable. Going to the "T" setting seems to increase both low speed AND high speed without that easy transition that the avalanche shock would make, especially at speed/really rough choppy sections. The "C" setting is pretty much useless on anything but a road.

    So the point was my avalanche shock allowed me to have my cake and eat it too, without having to reach down and turn my bike into a bucking-ride over every little bump to get decent low-speed characteristics. I'll probably send this shock to push over the winter or get something more advanced that allows for that tunability.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    my Woodie fitted my M endo. Felt wierd though - I am guessing it needs a different tune to the Chilly?
    When I lost 60lbs I totally screwed up my avalanche stuff due to the tunes, so relatively small changes in weight, leverage or suspension (different bikes) can make a big difference. That's the disadvantage of their stuff. At least with their forks it's not such a big deal to revalve them by yourself.

    See my post right above this one for my take on rear air-shocks with "pedaling levers". In short, a total waste of suspension tuning. If set to your weight correctly, something like the woodie or chubbie allows you to have your cake and eat it too in terms of damping and low/high speed performance.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  27. #27
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    well I guess i'm going to pull the trigger on either the:

    Avalanche Chubie
    or
    BOS The Kirk

    probably go for the enduro specific kirk as its only 340g!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Seriously tho', I just think about the sh1t the pro's ride on their 150 / 160 forks (speed / braking forces / steeps) and i feel totally comfortable that my same fork will hold up to anything i do.
    exactly! I took a lesson with dirt school and my tutor was riding dh on a trail bike with 140 forks. its all about technique.

    like the build muttonchops, mines is black too, cant wait to build it up after seeing yours now. nice coat on the pooch

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Plenty abuse dude. I rode the Chilly on the same trails y'day as I had ridden the Endo on Friday and I felt no significant difference. I ended up adding some compression to the 36 after noticing more dive. Out the box the Pike was impressive. Makes me want to ride the Endo more.
    Thanks man!!!!

  30. #30
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    I, personally, would go with some kind of air shock. The old endos leverage curve made much more sense for for air shock and I assume the newer iteration follows suit. I enjoy my ccdba on my endo (2010) a crapload. Just my 2 cents

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by honns View Post
    I, personally, would go with some kind of air shock. The old endos leverage curve made much more sense for for air shock and I assume the newer iteration follows suit. I enjoy my ccdba on my endo (2010) a crapload. Just my 2 cents
    craig at avalanche can tune the chubby to act properly for the endo. the black horse at the moment is the highly anticipated bos the kirk.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cfrench View Post
    .... the black horse at the moment is the highly anticipated bos the kirk.
    The black horse is a good one. After ~25hours riding my judgement is still the same than after first hour - Kirk is the best air shock Ive ridden. No question. Not tested Kirk with Endo; having Chili, but Kirk`s damn near of Woodie, only >500 grams lighter.

  33. #33
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    I third or fourth the pike, amazing fork. I was going to get PUSH moto/enduro tune for the Fox 34 in addition to the Pike and test back to back, but at this point, not sure it's worth $ or time.

    The "tokens" for the Pike really bake and put the icing on the cake. Makes it so tunable and dynamic, without tokens a bit too linear, one not noticable for my size (240-245#s w/out gear). I have two tokens in now, but thinking three will make it just perfect. They take five min to add or remove so if its not an improvement, easy to readjust.

    I'm curious about the Kirk, I have a shop that just picked BOS up and I'll investigate. Currently have a CTD Rear, not sure I want to spend on PUSH, and DBA - don't know I want that much shock so to speak.

    Endo is replacing Chili in many aspects.

    Best shock for the Endo?-565053_10102142273139304_1084772385_n.jpg

  34. #34
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    Not sure I can answer the original question of "what's the best shock for the Endo" but I decided to give the BOS Kirk a try. Ordered direct from the factory, took 4 days from that point for it to arrive on my doorstep, good work BOS! Its a very nice shock out of the box, beautifully engineered, it looks the part. I'll post up a ride report next week when I've had more time on it...

  35. #35
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    Woah, this is what I'm talking about:

    Float X High/Low SSD Kit

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Woah, this is what I'm talking about:

    Float X High/Low SSD Kit

    LOL ..genius.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Woah, this is what I'm talking about:

    Float X High/Low SSD Kit

    There goes the neighborhood. This is cool. It looks like Fox has similar versions of this coming out (without the custom tuning), which the DH folks were using this year in the world cups.

    I have the Fox Float X on my bike and it runs well now, can't wait to see what this puppy will do.

  38. #38
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    I talked to Cavan about this probably 6 weeks ago when I was about to buy one for my Endo, with the intent of sending it to Craig just for this. The way the Float X flares out so drastically right near the upper eyelet doesn't play well with the 3D rockers.

    So FYI before any of you go running and buying a Float X to send to Craig, it won't come close to fitting on a Chilcotin, and will only fit on a Endo if you dremel a small bit off the rockers for clearance.

    Really bummed as I really wanted this for my Endo, but I'll find something else. Just trying to save some folks some trouble and headaches if they wanted to go this route. It'd suck to buy the shock, send it to Craig, get it back and mount it up just to find out it didn't fit...
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I talked to Cavan about this probably 6 weeks ago when I was about to buy one for my Endo, with the intent of sending it to Craig just for this. The way the Float X flares out so drastically right near the upper eyelet doesn't play well with the 3D rockers.

    So FYI before any of you go running and buying a Float X to send to Craig, it won't come close to fitting on a Chilcotin, and will only fit on a Endo if you dremel a small bit off the rockers for clearance.

    Really bummed as I really wanted this for my Endo, but I'll find something else. Just trying to save some folks some trouble and headaches if they wanted to go this route. It'd suck to buy the shock, send it to Craig, get it back and mount it up just to find out it didn't fit...
    Can you flip it upside down?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Can you flip it upside down?
    No measurements on the website so hard to say. It looks like it would be tight upside down too. If it didn't fit, probably he could create a remote reservoir design if you asked him...like this... DHS Shock

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by pergamonx View Post
    The black horse is a good one. After ~25hours riding my judgement is still the same than after first hour - Kirk is the best air shock Ive ridden. No question. Not tested Kirk with Endo; having Chili, but Kirk`s damn near of Woodie, only >500 grams lighter.
    Im going to second this...ive only had 5 or 6 hours on mine, but so far its clear that the Kirk is a very good bit of kit (it destroys the rp23). Ill give more detailed feedback in a week or so, but I can say at this point that the climb switch works very well to reduce any pedalling induced movement. It feels very efficient. I did a couple jumps and it acted quite similar (on stock settings) to the Woodie on impact ...obviously it feels a little different as the Woodie is coil, but it does behave/feel very similar so im agreeing with pergamonx here. The weathers looking great for riding here over the next week so should get plenty hours in, keep you posted..

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    Can you flip it upside down?

    Cavan didn't mention it, but I'm guessing if it would have worked he would have said something.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Cavan didn't mention it, but I'm guessing if it would have worked he would have said something.
    Well that's too bad - talk about shock and tune combo that many folks would want for the Endorphin or the Chilcotin - a bummer for all.

    BTW - I tried to get a Fox Float X to fit on the Delirium and the CTD lever interfered with the linkage. For a shock that is not all that big and its big in the wrong places.

    May Craig can tune the Monarch Plus.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dude! View Post
    May Craig can tune the Monarch Plus.
    Dude! Craig can do anything you want, as he said to me earlier in the week, and understandably, he just needs to see evidence of growing demand for a product/adaption to justify his investment in tooling and time. These forums are great places to rally people together for this purpose..

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    You can't go wrong with the BOS Vip'r or the Kirk. The Vip'r has been around for quite a while now and it is one of the best shock out there. Especially since they are custom tune for the bike...

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