Avy'd Marzocchi 55

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  • 01-07-2013
    crseekins
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    I'm 6'2" and 210 - more geared up. Not really what you would call a fattie.
    If your a big guy (or quite petite) you can easily fall outside the stock tuning weight range.

    Having the ability to tune the shim-stack for weight - ala EVO cart, or Avalanche is a great benefit. Better than playing with oil weights and volumes. That is just the icing on the shim-stack cake.

    What has me interested is the mid-valve and Craigs ability to tune low, mid and high to my preferences. That is a bit more than playing with the high-speed on the EVO stack....

    Just this "fatties" opinion

    michael

    Thought I would post some of the progress on the 55 cartridge:





    These pictures show how we utilize the stock RC3 fork rebound cap with our cartridge.



    Stock rebound piston, note the plastic check valve, no shims and no midvalve.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________






    This is our cartridge rebound assembly, note the midvalves and check valve system, fully ported piston with rebound shims that can be revalved. The gold adapter contains the base compression valve with a 2 stage shim system for plush small bump and progressive shim second stage for high speed hits.

    Hope to have a completed cartridge for fitment testing out the door by the Jan 8th. Will post completed fork and installation procedure manual by end of the week.

    Update: Cartridge and fitment data for the 2008-2013 Marzocchi 55 is now available on our website, thanks for all the support and help from the Knolly MTBR forum! Also the installation manual for the RC3 is available now.
  • 01-07-2013
    qbert2000
    looks great
  • 01-07-2013
    rscecil007
    Nice Craig!!! I was going to send in the Van RC for my Podium, but that might just have to wait until late spring now.....
  • 01-07-2013
    cheezwhip
    Very encouraging news!
  • 01-07-2013
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    Thought I would post some of the progress on the 55 cartridge:
    ...
    Hope to have a completed cartridge for fitment testing out the door by the Jan 8th. Will post completed fork and installation procedure manual by end of the week.

    DAMN Craig!!! Not only do you work magic, but you work it at superhuman speeds! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
  • 01-07-2013
    beefmagic
    Excellent! Good to see cartridges for the 55's. My lyrik will be going under the knife soon! :)
  • 01-08-2013
    B Gillespie
    Dang, may have to upgrade my 55 along with the DHX for my DHR. Thats shock pRon.
  • 01-08-2013
    mrniceguy42
    Going to get a 55rc3ti tonight....perfect timing!
  • 01-08-2013
    crseekins
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    DAMN Craig!!! Not only do you work magic, but you work it at superhuman speeds! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    Here is a link to the website info on the Marzocchi 55 RC3 EVO Ti cartridge kit:

    Marzocchi 55 35mm Cartridge Kit
  • 01-08-2013
    rscecil007
    Yes!!!!
  • 01-08-2013
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    Here is a link to the website info on the Marzocchi 55 RC3 EVO Ti cartridge kit:

    Marzocchi 55 35mm Cartridge Kit

    Nice work Craig! It will be interesting to see if your cartridge will work for my "bottom of the line" 2010 Marzocchi 55 Micro Air Ti Fork. :thumbsup:

    BTW, I shipped my fork to you last week; but I just checked its shipping status on the UPS tracking website and my fork is still in Commerce City, CO. Worse still, the "updated" delivery date is "Tuesday, 01/15/2013, By End of Day". SOBs!!! :madman:

    UPS, when it positively has to get there within a year--give or take a month! :madmax:
  • 01-08-2013
    cheezwhip
    No way!!! Already?! Wow!
  • 01-08-2013
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    No way!!! Already?! Wow!

    yea, no kidding. can't imagine not having one, but i gotta see a few reviews. hurry up you guys!
  • 01-09-2013
    mrniceguy42
    Im looking on the website and I saw that for $100 it can be installed. So for $427 you can get the assembly and install it yourself, but for $527 plus shipping, Craig will install it for you. Correct?
  • 01-09-2013
    Iceman69
    I am looking forward to the reviews from this mod. The fork itself is pretty damn good ; so for an extra 4-500 bucks it should be on a whole different level entirely. Who will be the first to try it out???
  • 01-09-2013
    rscecil007
    I really don't think a review is going to be needed. I haven't ever heard anything close to a "meh, it was okay" review of any Avalanche product or mod.

    Most everyone I know is very pleasantly surprised. :p:p:p

    I'm not waiting, soon as I can sell my Lyrik the cart is getting ordered.
  • 01-09-2013
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Iceman69 View Post
    I am looking forward to the reviews from this mod. The fork itself is pretty damn good ; so for an extra 4-500 bucks it should be on a whole different level entirely. Who will be the first to try it out???

    'til this morning, that's what i was doing, looking forward to reviews. but, i called Avalanche & now my fork is off to see the wizard. i was thinking like you were, that my RC3 was pretty damn nice. how much better could it be? $400+ better? after only about one minute talking to Craig, i was ready to find out. i'm totally confident that it will be the fork i hoped the 55 was going to be when i got it. in a couple of weeks, i'm sure it will be.:D
  • 01-09-2013
    rscecil007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    'til this morning, that's what i was doing, looking forward to reviews. but, i called Avalanche & now my fork is off to see the wizard. i was thinking like you were, that my RC3 was pretty damn nice. how much better could it be? $400+ better? after only about one minute talking to Craig, i was ready to find out. i'm totally confident that it will be the fork i hoped the 55 was going to be when i got it. in a couple of weeks, i'm sure it will be.:D

    Hahaha, anytime anyone calls Craig, you might as well start out giving him your credit card info first thing, because you are guaranteed to buy something by the time you hang up. :)
  • 01-09-2013
    TSC
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Iceman69 View Post
    I am looking forward to the reviews from this mod. The fork itself is pretty damn good ; so for an extra 4-500 bucks it should be on a whole different level entirely. Who will be the first to try it out???

    If Craig is able to Avy my fork (a low end 2010) then I will have him ship it to rscecil007 (I think we are about the same size & weight and Craig says we like a similar tune). That way Ryan can do a side-by-side comparison with the Avy'd 55 and a stock 55 RC3.

    The one catch: I told Craig that he could keep my fork until March if he needs it. I won't need it until March because I will be riding this on my local mountain bike trails.
  • 01-09-2013
    rscecil007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    If Craig is able to Avy my fork (a low end 2010) then I will have him ship it to rscecil007 (I think we are about the same size & weight and Craig says we like a similar tune). That way Ryan can do a side-by-side comparison with the Avy'd 55 and a stock 55 RC3.

    The one catch: I told Craig that he could keep my fork until March if he needs it. I won't need it until March because I will be riding this on my local mountain bike trails.


    Patience TSC-san, compression on, rebound off. :D:D:D

    I seriously could have the cart ordered by the end of the week, as I have a guy interested in my fork. I've already gotten some rides in on my stock one, and you know that cart will go in ASAP when it shows.

    I'll be at cheezwhips house installing it the night it shows up watching him drool and drink his expensive whiskeys. :D
  • 01-09-2013
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I seriously could have the cart ordered by the end of the week, as I have a guy interested in my fork. I've already gotten some rides in on my stock one, and you know that cart will go in ASAP when it shows.

    I'll be at cheezwhips house installing it the night it shows up watching him drool and drink his expensive whiskeys. :D

    Wow, you're in the express lane too. I guess the snow and cold has slowed me a bit. I wish I were there to drink cheezwhips good stuff and watch a pro do the assembly. :thumbsup:
  • 01-10-2013
    cheezwhip
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I'll be at cheezwhips house installing it the night it shows up watching him drool and drink his expensive whiskeys. :D

    Looking forward to it - my whiskey cabinet is always open.
  • 01-10-2013
    rscecil007
    LOL, no need to open your whiskey cabinet to me, I can't stand the stuff. I'll have a beer, just not so many that I get the beer and fork oil mixed up.
  • 01-10-2013
    Herzalot
    I am late to this thread, but I have a 2012 Marz 55 Microswitch TA (air). Is that in the mix, Craig? Looks like the target was acquired with the 55 Evo Ti.
  • 01-10-2013
    Iceman69
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    'til this morning, that's what i was doing, looking forward to reviews. but, i called Avalanche & now my fork is off to see the wizard. i was thinking like you were, that my RC3 was pretty damn nice. how much better could it be? $400+ better? after only about one minute talking to Craig, i was ready to find out. i'm totally confident that it will be the fork i hoped the 55 was going to be when i got it. in a couple of weeks, i'm sure it will be.:D

    Well then.....I will be looking forward to yur review!!!!!
  • 01-14-2013
    crseekins
    For those interested, we just posted the installation and set-up manual for the Marzocchi 55 RC3 EVO Ti Avalanche cartridge. This will help you see what you are up against if you decide to do the self install kit.

    http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.c...%20Install.pdf
  • 01-14-2013
    bigcrs
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    For those interested, we just posted the installation and set-up manual for the Marzocchi 55 RC3 EVO Ti Avalanche cartridge. This will help you see what you are up against if you decide to do the self install kit.

    http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.c...%20Install.pdf

    Looks good Craig, makes the Lyrik self-install kit appear basic.

    If I could suggest one thing, if the kit comes with separate components (ie, ABS oil lock ring) it would be helpful if you could have the components labeled. It might just help the customer understand what they are looking at when preparing to do the install.
  • 01-14-2013
    rscecil007
    Very nice. The only tricky part looks to be removing the rebound rod out of the Marz damper and installing it in the AVA damper.

    Here's hoping I do not need a propane torch for that!! :eek:
  • 01-14-2013
    cheezwhip
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    For those interested, we just posted the installation and set-up manual for the Marzocchi 55 RC3 EVO Ti Avalanche cartridge. This will help you see what you are up against if you decide to do the self install kit.

    http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.c...%20Install.pdf

    Thanks Craig! It's nice seeing my fork getting the spa treatment :-)

    We're going to have some fun installing rscecil007's cart!
  • 01-15-2013
    crseekins
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    Thanks Craig! It's nice seeing my fork getting the spa treatment :-)

    We're going to have some fun installing rscecil007's cart!

    It looks like we might of made the install look harder than it really is, but we just took allot of pictures to help clarify the install.:smilewinkgrin:

    We are currently installing them for free for anyone who feels like they can't handle it. Just send your fork in and get the spa treatment!
  • 01-15-2013
    crseekins
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    Looks good Craig, makes the Lyrik self-install kit appear basic.

    If I could suggest one thing, if the kit comes with separate components (ie, ABS oil lock ring) it would be helpful if you could have the components labeled. It might just help the customer understand what they are looking at when preparing to do the install.

    Thanks for the help on this, we will add these pictures as we update the manual this week.:thumbsup:
  • 01-15-2013
    beefmagic
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    It looks like we might of made the install look harder than it really is, but we just took allot of pictures to help clarify the install.:smilewinkgrin:

    We are currently installing them for free for anyone who feels like they can't handle it. Just send your fork in and get the spa treatment!

    Wow! Great Deal! Is that just for 55's or does that include Lyrik's as well? :)
  • 01-15-2013
    TSC
    Just spent 30 minutes on the phone talking with Craig about fork design, theory and my "2010 Marzocchi 55 Micro Air Ti" which is complete with TST Micro technology. According to the Marz website:
    Quote:

    TST Micro is the greatest evolution of TST closed cartridge hydraulic systems. The black knob installed in the lower part of the fork leg adjusts the rebound. The red-coloured top knob sets Micro System to adjust the compression. The Micro adjustment (golden knob on the top of the fork leg) sets the operating threshold of compression by adapting the behaviour of the suspension system to the type of terrain. Lockout is activated by turning the golden knob completely in the closed position, then shifting the red lever.
    I hope Craig posts a picture of "TST Micro technology". I got a big chuckle out of it when told me what it is--a ball check valve with no shims or anything except a spring you tighten.

    No wonder I could never get the fork to perform as advertised. If TST Micro is the "greatest evolution of TST closed cartridge hydraulic systems", then I would hate to even imagine what the previous versions were like. :arf:
  • 01-16-2013
    mrniceguy42
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crseekins View Post
    It looks like we might of made the install look harder than it really is, but we just took allot of pictures to help clarify the install.:smilewinkgrin:

    We are currently installing them for free for anyone who feels like they can't handle it. Just send your fork in and get the spa treatment!

    How long is this "spa treatment deal" going on for?
  • 01-16-2013
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Just spent 30 minutes on the phone talking with Craig about fork design, theory and my "2010 Marzocchi 55 Micro Air Ti" which is complete with TST Micro technology. According to the Marz website:

    I hope Craig posts a picture of "TST Micro technology". I got a big chuckle out of it when told me what it is--a ball check valve with no shims or anything except a spring you tighten.

    No wonder I could never get the fork to perform as advertised. If TST Micro is the "greatest evolution of TST closed cartridge hydraulic systems", then I would hate to even imagine what the previous versions were like. :arf:

    It's air suspension, what did you expect? I'd sell sh!t to fecalpheliacs too, Marz knows their business :D. I hope you spent some of Craig's time asking how to convert that to a coil spring.
  • 01-16-2013
    crseekins
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mrniceguy42 View Post
    How long is this "spa treatment deal" going on for?

    We are still looking to install them in all versions of the 55. We are doing the install for free until we have all the fitment data and assembly pictures taken.
  • 01-19-2013
    TSC
    One update: I spoke with Craig yesterday and he said that RC3 caps/plugs work and he is deciding between sourcing them and building his own. So, from what I gather, the Avy'd Marz 55 RC3 is already a go :cornut:; and the 55 TST (my version) is a go with a different cap. I don't believe anyone has sent in another version of the 55 for Craig to see what needs to be done to get it Avy'd.

    BTW, I ordered an RC3 cap from Marz and it is on the way. :thumbsup:
  • 01-21-2013
    TSC
    FYI: I just created another version of this thread in the Suspensions forum to get more variations of the Marz 55 for Craig to measure. (Apparently you all are big spenders and only have TOL forks. :D)

    In Suspensions Forum: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspen...-a-834997.html
  • 01-29-2013
    NS-NV
    A little off topic, but I switched from a 55RC3 to a micro ti, because I wanted the travel adjust...

    It's ok, but not super happy about how it performs compared to the RC3. Was going to swap out cartridges (keep the travel adjust) but thinking Avi might be a better way to go. I would like it to be more supple, yet firm (if that makes sense).

    I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.
  • 01-30-2013
    TSC
    Several questions so I can help you:

    1) What year is your fork? Marz changes things up often (e.g. 2009 55RC3 was an air fork).

    2) Is your travel adjust feature in the same leg as you preload (e.g. spring)?

    3) By "supple, yet firm" are you saying:
    a) you don't want harsh feedback from a bumps in the trail; and
    b) want the fork not to dive in corners or bob up and down when you are pedaling out of the seat?
  • 01-30-2013
    cheezwhip
    I've had 2 rides on my AVY'd 55 and it's breaking in nicely. Gone is the brake dive (my only complaint really w/ the stock RC3 EVO Ti) - I was able to set it up to 25% sag without the use of air-assist.

    First ride was 'ok' - brake dive was muted but due to excessive sag (~30%), it was still there. On the second ride with RSCecil007, I correctly set my sag to Craig's recommended (~22-25%), the brake dive went away & there's actually discernible midstroke support. The front end of my bike is very well-mannered now with the AVY cart - I'd say the biggest difference now is the bike "disappears" under me (rear shock is also an AVY'd DHX5 Coil) and I just flow through the chunk on the downs now. It really frees me up to just think about line choice/body position/cornering and not have to waste clock-cycles fighting with the bike as much. Controlled, quality damping - who'd a thunk it'd put a damping effect on my hack riding skills ;-)

    A couple of notes:

    > I had to turn down the rebound a little (speed it up) from the settings that Craig had them at when I received it but it's really apparent how much difference a single click makes. (from 11 to 7 clicks)
    > I'd been running my forks @ 30-33% sag for too long (maybe its from my DH days)
    > Small-bump compliance is still really good with the AVY Cart
    > Control, control, control
    > Still need to play with LS-Compression/Rebound settings some more - Craig is great at providing feedback to help here
    > I know it's been said before, but it bears repeating: Craig really knows his SH*t

    Tested on the trails in this video:

    Video: "Sunday" With Bryn Atkinson - Pinkbike

    Edit: that ain't me in the vid ;-) but that's home court for us
  • 01-30-2013
    rscecil007
    Mine is on the way back and hopefully will be here Friday or Saturday, so Sir Cheez and I can do the install Sat night.

    If all goes well, I know of a good run we can go do on Sunday to really put it through it's paces....:D
  • 01-30-2013
    TSC
    Nice writeup! Can it get you to cross-post it to this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspen...-a-834997.html

    Craig still needs more variations of the 55 to test. Your writeup will create additional interest among the non-Knolly crowd.
  • 01-30-2013
    NS-NV
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Several questions so I can help you:

    1) What year is your fork? Marz changes things up often (e.g. 2009 55RC3 was an air fork).

    2) Is your travel adjust feature in the same leg as you preload (e.g. spring)?

    3) By "supple, yet firm" are you saying:
    a) you don't want harsh feedback from a bumps in the trail; and
    b) want the fork not to dive in corners or bob up and down when you are pedaling out of the seat?

    Thanks TSC...

    Started on a 2010 Rc3 ti. Really liked it. Currently have 2012 Micro...

    I am pals with the boys @ Marzocchi, and have been a royal pain in the butt about this fork, so I am comfortable that it is running as well as it can. I realize that the 55 will not feel as plush as my 888, but a guy can dream.

    Preload and TA are on the same side.

    I cant seem to find the balance between too much dive, and feeling harsh. So yes, to a and b. Seems to wallow mid stroke.

    I am not a big fan of air suspension, as I think it lacks suppleness when run a bit firm (although the CCDBAir on my Chilcotin seems to be an exception to this!).

    I am not opposed to switching out the Micro out for RC3, but want to know what options there are out there.

    Does the Avy have a travel adjust feature?

    Thanks!
  • 01-30-2013
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by NS-NV View Post
    Does the Avy have a travel adjust feature?

    My 55 is basically the same fork as yours. I could never get it feel right either. I'm excited to see how my Avy'd version feels.

    No, the Avy cartridge doesn't have a travel adjust. The Avy cart would replace the LH (TST Mirco) side of the fork.

    One thing to note: Craig is currently using the plug and cap that came with the fork. The TST cap doesn't have a click to it (at least my 2010 version didn't) so I opted to buy the RC3 cap (RH side of the RC3 fork) for the LH side of my fork so I could count clicks (and I was afraid that the TST cap might drift).

    Funny thought: The RC3 uses a one-size-fits-all TI spring in the LH leg and the "Air Preload" in the RH leg (accessed via the RC3 cap) to adjust sag and ride. One could use the "Air Preload" in the RC3 cap to adjust height--just open the schrader valve and push down on the fork to create a vacuum.

    Since our TST forks have all "elastic system" in the RH side, I would just need to return the compression side to a neutral pressure after the climb to make the fork work correctly. RC3 owners could do the same thing, but they would need to pull out their shock pumps to get the sag set again. Obviously, it's ubber-ghetto but it's there if you get desperate. :arf:
  • 02-05-2013
    mrniceguy42
    1 Attachment(s)
    The stanchions on my 55 have many very shallow scratches on one of the stanchions. They are smooth to the touch and not jagged, however, it concerns me that if I am going to spend the money on the avalanche cartridge, I dont want it to have any problems.

    Thoughts?
  • 02-05-2013
    TSC
    In general, the concern over stanchion scratches seems to be two-fold:

    1) Ripping up the forks seals.

    2) Letting dirt/grime in, because the seals can't sweep it away.

    Since yours are smooth, #1 shouldn't be an issue. If you have any reason for concern (your scratches look minimal) then #2 is probably more of an issue. The severity of #2 depends on: a) if the scratches are on the spring side or hydraulic side of the fork (spring side is less sensitive); b) if the scratches are big and/or deep enough to let in significant debris in that can clog up your compression and rebound circuits; and c) if you change your fork oil regularly (dirt and grime and increase wear).

    That said, there are lots of simple remedies to fix stanchion scratches. Just Google "stanchion scratch repair" and you will find tons. Here's a random one (not necessarily endorsing it) that has pictures and step by step instructions: BikeRadar.com • View topic - Scratched your Fork Legs?

    Hope this helps. :thumbsup:

    The preliminary reports I've been hearing from some buddies are gushing (e.g. "mid stroke support is nuts, brake dive is pretty much gone unless you completely unweight the back endo style.") I should get mine back in a few weeks; then I need to find a place without 2+ feet of snow on the ground to ride. :D
  • 02-19-2013
    cheezwhip
    Avy'd Marzocchi 55
    Update:

    The fork has been really just stellar - it's freed me up to notice other things on the ride other than wrestling with the bike (like "my front tire isn't biting very well in the corners today" or "was that an equisetum I just rolled over?")

    Craig suggested I turn the preload down a little and give a few pumps into the air preload to balance things out - haven't played much with the compression yet but when I'm riding, it's kind of a pain to bust out the tools and besides, it's pretty d@mned good where it's at. (I do want play with this setting more though).

    I settled with the rebound @ 8.5 clicks (which is approximately 13 clicks on the production model carts - my unit is a preproduction cart so the rebound range is a little less granular than the production ones).

    I'm really appreciating the midstroke support and how the bike is sitting more level/higher in the travel - it's just so composed that I think I'm actually riding faster... I find myself having more of these "oh sh!t" moments when I realize I'm going faster than usual on the same trails (usually resulting in me grabbing a fistful of brake lever) - I attribute this to the suspension doing a better job of smoothing the trails out.

    I really liked the stock RC3 EVO Ti but the improvement to me going to the AVY cart is dramatic - I couldn't be happier with the upgrade so a big thank you to Craig for making this available on the 55!
  • 02-19-2013
    rscecil007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cheezwhip View Post
    it's just so composed that I think I'm actually riding faster...

    He is, and I'm practically killing myself trying to stay on his @ss.

    :thumbsup:
  • 02-19-2013
    cheezwhip
    Avy'd Marzocchi 55
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    He is, and I'm practically killing myself trying to stay on his @ss.

    :thumbsup:

    Dude... Not in front of the kids...