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  1. #1
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    Anybody have news from the private unveil at Interbike?

    I was at Interbike yesterday staffing the booth with DSP Racing, I saw a bit from Knolly Bikes on their Facebook page about a private unveil yesterday in their suite although I couldnt get invited. Anybody get to go or was it a "for your eyes only" affair?
    Last edited by craigstr; 09-20-2012 at 10:46 AM.

  2. #2
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    Knolly sure likes to unveil new things at interbike that people weren't expecting...

    In 2009, the word was out about the finalized product for the podium but there was also a brand new Delirium and a prototype Endorphin SL
    For 2010, people were expecting the endorphin sl but they were given a Chilcotin also.
    What will there be for 2012?

  3. #3
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    29er mayhaps???????

  4. #4
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    Somebody please give up the goods.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    29er mayhaps???????
    Close....

    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  6. #6
    si vis pacem...
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    NICE!

    I still can't get on board with 29ers but I think the 27.5 size might be a pretty sweet compromise. Can't wait to try one!

    Is that a Chilcotin or an Endorphin?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabellum View Post
    Is that a Chilcotin or an Endorphin?
    The answer is: BOTH.
    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    The answer is: BOTH.
    Jebus, someone please come out with a 650b 160-170mm beefy fork now!
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  9. #9
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    I'm a little annoyed by that picture, because I can't see if it has the weld of death or not.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  10. #10
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    All-new 3D swing link design for Chilcotin and Endorphin:

    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  11. #11
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    More please

    When will the 650b version be available and when will you ship the updated Chilcotins (any other changes)?

  12. #12
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    Dammit! And I just bought a chilcotin! Oh well...

  13. #13
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    Keep em coming K, good stuff! Is the link forged not machined on the new ones or is that just a painted one? What's the thought on the redesign, save a bit of weight or stronger? Any crabon protos floating around at this event?
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    All-new 3D swing link design for Chilcotin and Endorphin:
    Ahahahahaaaa ROTFLOL!
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  15. #15
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    Probably answering my own question but much shorter/stronger bolt there eh?
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Probably answering my own question but much shorter/stronger bolt there eh?
    Bolt is 20mm shorter, 50% stronger, and setup is 40g lighter.

    That's what we call a win/win/win.

    Noel gave a 30 minute class on 'bolt technology & philosophy' at our happy hour yesterday. It is pretty amazing how much thought goes into all of it... grade, length, shank length, thread length, thread pitch, etc. Everyone was nerding out on bolts, it was pretty funny.
    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Bolt is 20mm shorter, 50% stronger, and setup is 40g lighter.

    That's what we call a win/win/win.

    Noel gave a 30 minute class on 'bolt technology & philosophy' at our happy hour yesterday. It is pretty amazing how much thought goes into all of it... grade, length, shank length, thread length, thread pitch, etc. Everyone was nerding out on bolts, it was pretty funny.
    So what did you do in Vegas? Oh, I sat around with a bunch of dudes drinking and talking about bolts. Hahahaha, coming from Noel I know that would actually be a very interesting and entertaining discussion though.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    All-new 3D swing link design for Chilcotin and Endorphin:

    Can you retrofit that onto a current Chilcotin frame? And if so, when is it available for purchase?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couch_Surfer View Post
    Can you retrofit that onto a current Chilcotin frame? And if so, when is it available for purchase?
    We will be offering a retro kit, in a couple months.
    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  20. #20
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    So its the Endocotin? So nuts and bolts huh, maybe I'm glad you didn't invite me. If 650B is done right, I think its the future of the sport. My favorite bike of the Outdoor Demo was the Intense Carbine 275. That thing just motored over everything, up and down. I was riding the DH trails on it at Bootleg like I was on my Delirium. On the other hand, hated the Turner Burner, I just dont get along with DW links.

  21. #21
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    sweet, can't wait for the full pics. when will it be fully revealed?

  22. #22
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    I hope it's a few months off still. My bank account can't take another hit so soon after my Banshee Prime build

    Any geometry figures available yet?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Close....


    I spy...a Chilcotin front triangle, Endorphin links, and custom 27.5 stays????
    Portland Off Road Navagators

  24. #24
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    For those who are close to considering putting a deposit down on an Endo (but would def prefer the 650 version), can we get a little info on how to work the order with our LBS? Like will it be retrofit only, separate frame to order, etc?

    Thanks, man. That preview made my day.


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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by chargerfan View Post
    For those who are close to considering putting a deposit down on an Endo (but would def prefer the 650 version), can we get a little info on how to work the order with our LBS? Like will it be retrofit only, separate frame to order, etc?

    Thanks, man. That preview made my day.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    +1

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
    More please

    When will the 650b version be available and when will you ship the updated Chilcotins (any other changes)?
    what do you mean by saying updated? i might have missed something but as i ordered one 2 weeks ago, i would liek to know if it has changes and if so, wich ones?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by alfredo View Post
    what do you mean by saying updated? i might have missed something but as i ordered one 2 weeks ago, i would liek to know if it has changes and if so, wich ones?
    New Linkage (forged 3D). Will be available for upgrade in a couple of month (quote from Dusty Bottoms).

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
    New Linkage (forged 3D). Will be available for upgrade in a couple of month (quote from Dusty Bottoms).
    well, ok. thought i missed something else. so actual batches not affected by this update. thx

  29. #29
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    you guys missed out!!

    pleasure meeting you Kevin! Oh & that Noel guy..

    Rick

  30. #30
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    Awesome....need more info please Dusty & Noel.

    I rode an Enduro race course y'day eve with a former pro / sponsored DH racer - it was his first ride on a 650b bike and he was visibly impressed (and i was jealous). Much preferred to his former 29'er for manouverability and had many benefits of the 29'er.

    I am super excited about this news from Knolly. Congratulations Noel. Continuing to reach new heights.
    Last edited by Muttonchops; 09-21-2012 at 09:32 AM.
    I support EMBA

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by chargerfan View Post
    For those who are close to considering putting a deposit down on an Endo (but would def prefer the 650 version), can we get a little info on how to work the order with our LBS? Like will it be retrofit only, separate frame to order, etc?

    Thanks, man. That preview made my day.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

    650 will NOT be a retrofit for current 26" models, since you would end up with a 15.5" bb height. The 650's will be all new models... new stays and new front triangle.
    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  32. #32
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    3d link

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    We will be offering a retro kit, in a couple months.
    i just ordered a chilcotin 9-21 and there is a new 3d swing link unveiled at the interbike. i wishing i am gonna get this 3d swing link.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    650 will NOT be a retrofit for current 26" models, since you would end up with a 15.5" bb height. The 650's will be all new models... new stays and new front triangle.
    What's the travel going to be on the 27.5?

  34. #34
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    I need to understand this 650b craze going on.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    650 will NOT be a retrofit for current 26" models, since you would end up with a 15.5" bb height. The 650's will be all new models... new stays and new front triangle.
    That is not a problem, I've had my Quasi that high and it works very well. If you can turn a low bike you can turn a high bike.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I need to understand this 650b craze going on.
    Advantages:

    -- lower rolling resistance
    -- better traction
    -- smoother ride (doesn't fall as deep into holes)
    -- easier over obstacles

    Disadvantages:

    -- geometry limitations
    -- higher center of gravity
    -- suspension travel limitations
    -- less flickable gyroscopic effect - YouTube

    Two short articles (one more anti and one more pro, IMO):
    26" vs 27.5" (650b) vs 29"
    Guide To 650b Wheels - BikeRadar
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    I need to understand this 650b craze going on.
    In my eyes it really boils down to this:
    Big wheels roll over stuff better
    27.5/650b alows that without gargantuan chainstay lengths like 29ers.

    Really a formula for the one do-it-all bike once the tire and fork options become available. In the meantime, a Chilcotin with nice high volume tires that are nearly the same radius as most the available 650b tires is treating me really well! 650b will be really interesting when the 2.4 Trail Kings and a couple of the high volume Schwalbes are up for sale.
    Sipping the Knolly Whisquillappa

  38. #38
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    Interesting, thanks. I kinda of assumed this was the reasoning, but hadn't really looked into it.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  39. #39
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    Cookie monster

    Um.Nom.Nom.Nom MORE cookie!
    Portland Off Road Navagators

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    So its the Endocotin?
    I like Childorphin better!

    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr
    On the other hand, hated the Turner Burner, I just dont get along with DW links.
    Really? Hate is such a strong word. OTOH I'm pretty excited about this new 650b Chilli.
    Last edited by KRob; 09-24-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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  41. #41
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    Yeah, hate works for me. It just didnt work for me, with all the hype about it, I was very disappointed.

  42. #42
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    Dusty

    Is the shock size on the 650b different to current 26 Endo/Chili frames?

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    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    So what did you do in Vegas? Oh, I sat around with a bunch of dudes drinking and talking about bolts.

    Better than sitting around in Vegas talking about nuts.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Dusty

    Is the shock size on the 650b different to current 26 Endo/Chili frames?
    Same shock size and stroke...

    Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

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    teasing is boring, you going to show the whole 650 bike or wha LOLt?

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    That is not a problem, I've had my Quasi that high and it works very well. If you can turn a low bike you can turn a high bike.
    Yeah, sign me up too! I am totally sick of the low bracket trend. That might be the one way to get me excited about a 650b bike!

  47. #47
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    Riding a 650b bike doesn't mean you have a higher bottom bracket! Just look at the numbers. Intense Tracer 275 for example has a 13.3" BB.
    Even most 29ers with modern geometry have low bottom brackets.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
    Riding a 650b bike doesn't mean you have a higher bottom bracket! Just look at the numbers. Intense Tracer 275 for example has a 13.3" BB.
    Even most 29ers with modern geometry have low bottom brackets.
    i does if you throw 650b wheels on a frame designed for 26". that's where the high bb comment came from.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    i does if you throw 650b wheels on a frame designed for 26". that's where the high bb comment came from.
    why would anyone sane do this?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethimus View Post
    why would anyone sane do this?
    650b on a Chilcotin - with Pics!

    you tell me

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
    Riding a 650b bike doesn't mean you have a higher bottom bracket! Just look at the numbers. Intense Tracer 275 for example has a 13.3" BB.
    Even most 29ers with modern geometry have low bottom brackets.
    The previous posters were making their comments in the context of a previous post by Dusty. Anybody have news from the private unveil at Interbike?
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    650 will NOT be a retrofit for current 26" models, since you would end up with a 15.5" bb height. The 650's will be all new models... new stays and new front triangle.
    This statement doesn't seem to jive with the statement below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    We will be offering a retro kit, in a couple months.
    Please help me understand.
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  53. #53
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    I think he is talking about the new linkage?

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    Quote Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    I think he is talking about the new linkage?
    I think so too. I was a tad confused, but a replaceable dropout retrofit would have been money.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    This statement doesn't seem to jive with the statement below.



    Please help me understand.
    he's talking 3d rocker for the chili being available to people who have the straight one. in another post he stated that the 650b bikes is a different front end and rear end, that the current chili isn't convertible to 650b

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    why would i want a higher bb + less clearance in the mud?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sethimus View Post
    why would i want a higher bb + less clearance in the mud?
    why would anyone? i have zero interest in that. i have no idea why anyone would. if you want 650b, buy a dedicated design ( by you i mean anyone, not you specifically)

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    he's talking 3d rocker for the chili being available to people who have the straight one. in another post he stated that the 650b bikes is a different front end and rear end, that the current chili isn't convertible to 650b
    So what does the 3D rocker do?
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So what does the 3D rocker do?
    Allows the use of a shorter upper shock bolt.
    Employed by Pivot Cycles - www.pivotcycles.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    why would anyone? i have zero interest in that. i have no idea why anyone would.
    You'll develop some vague idea if you get out of the 50th percentile.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  61. #61
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Allows the use of a shorter upper shock bolt.
    And looks nicer - I remember when turner made the switch on the TNT bikes.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    And looks nicer - I remember when turner made the switch on the TNT bikes.
    And the most important thing, 50% stronger than the current bolt.
    If jackasses could fly this place would be an airport.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    So what does the 3D rocker do?

    stronger bolt so less bent rocker bolts like people have been having with the chili.

    should have been standard from the get go imo and i hope the price to upgrade to it reflects that. most brands have already switched to 3d rockers, trek, turner, ventana and now knolly. no need for grade 12 bolts when you can run a shorter bolt. still will, but now it will be overkill instead of not enough

  64. #64
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    So when do we get the rest of the info in the Endorphin 650b? I was a day away from pre-ordering the Intense Tracer 27.5 when this thing pops up! I have spent at least a month or 2 checking every bike and going through the numbers and had made my decision. Then the next morning Knolly turns my whole world upside down by showing this bike!

    I will now go back into waiting mode, so I can get details like, Travel, Geo, and availability. I guess I would also want price as well but that is subjective based on the other numbers!

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    And looks nicer - I remember when turner made the switch on the TNT bikes.
    switch from what? Turners have always been "3d".

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    What is the rear travel going to be, same as 26" Endo? Headtube angle?

  69. #69
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    [QUOTE=PUNKY;9729562]What is the rear travel going to be, same as 26" Endo? Headtube angle?[/]

    I look forward to seeing the final specs. I would imagine it will be 140mm.

    It's interesting to see the 27.5 market develop. I'm surprised how many companies are talking 160 mm. I don't think there are any good fork options in that range (yet). I would think the 120-140 mm range would be the ticket.

    For my personal use I would love to see the travel at 125-130. Bring back the Endo SL but with the bigger wheels. Knolly needs a trail bike. I guess in the mean time I will keep my eyes on the new Endo and hopefully get a test ride this fall.

  70. #70
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    I'm keen on a new bike for 2013 and a 650B Chili would definitely be of interest if it was 160mm travel on both ends. I don't want a 140mm travel all mountain bike even if the wheels are bigger.
    Safe riding,

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    pretty please, can we see pics of the whole bike?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    It's interesting to see the 27.5 market develop. I'm surprised how many companies are talking 160 mm. I don't think there are any good fork options in that range (yet).
    XFusion 36mm is compatible. And I remember seeing dustybottoms go pretty big with the xfusion and one those first 26 chillys..lets see more 275!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeerhillJ View Post
    XFusion 36mm is compatible. And I remember seeing dustybottoms go pretty big with the xfusion and one those first 26 chillys..lets see more 275!
    I think the hot setup will be a 26er Chili frame with a 650B upfront and 26er in the rear. Best of both worlds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    I think the hot setup will be a 26er Chili frame with a 650B upfront and 26er in the rear. Best of both worlds.
    Not the climbing world, unless you are using an adjustable-height fork. The A2C is figured assuming that the hub centers of both wheels are the same height. When you raise the front then you are effectively adding to the A2C.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Not the climbing world, unless you are using an adjustable-height fork. The A2C is figured assuming that the hub centers of both wheels are the same height. When you raise the front then you are effectively adding to the A2C.
    You can set the Chili to the steep setting when you add the 160mm 650B fork/wheel or you can reduce the fork travel to 140mm. Depending on your terrain/preferences.
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    a lot of existing 26" forks will take 650b. i know the bos deville does.

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    We could just go ride our 2010 Deliriums and be happy.

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    hi, has anyone tried a 650b in a deville, what do Bos themselves say? i have a deville and as they don't make a 650b fork it would be sweet to swap it to a 650b endorphin or chilcotin...

    p.s. any numbers on the 650b endorphin and chilcotin? same rear travel as the 26 inch bikes? frame aesthetics and construction the same?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatwheeled View Post
    hi, has anyone tried a 650b in a deville, what do Bos themselves say? i have a deville and as they don't make a 650b fork it would be sweet to swap it to a 650b endorphin or chilcotin...

    p.s. any numbers on the 650b endorphin and chilcotin? same rear travel as the 26 inch bikes? frame aesthetics and construction the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    a lot of existing 26" forks will take 650b. i know the bos deville does.
    looks like it does

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatwheeled View Post

    p.s. any numbers on the 650b endorphin and chilcotin? same rear travel as the 26 inch bikes? frame aesthetics and construction the same?
    Geo will be very similar to the existing 26" designs, tweaked just a bit for the bigger wheels. Same travel, same frame aesthetics, same construction.

    Expect to see the Endo version out first, since there aren't currently many(or any) 650 forks on the market that can keep up with the Chilcotin rear end. And we won't be releasing that design encouraging you to squeeze a 650 wheel into a non-650 fork, just to make it happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Expect to see the Endo version out first, since there aren't currently many(or any) 650 forks on the market that can keep up with the Chilcotin rear end. And we won't be releasing that design encouraging you to squeeze a 650 wheel into a non-650 fork, just to make it happen.
    From what I understand, it's harder to make bikes with more travel accommodate bigger wheels; BUT are there any plans to make a 650b Delirium (perhaps a 7" travel 650b and a 7.3" travel 26er)?
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    Just pop a 650B front wheel onto the current offerings....slacker, higher, yes please.
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    [QUOTE=fatwheeled;9770358]hi, has anyone tried a 650b in a deville, what do Bos themselves say? i have a deville and as they don't make a 650b fork it would be sweet to swap it to a 650b endorphin or chilcotin...

    Deville will take a Pacenti 2.3 650b tyre and wheel (measures around 704 dia) but I'm not sure about the Schwalbe Hans Dampf 650b. But I don't think it will be a lot bigger, so it will probably fit. I will try to find out and let you know what the diameter is for the HD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    BUT are there any plans to make a 650b Delirium (perhaps a 7" travel 650b and a 7.3" travel 26er)?
    Very doubtful. Conversing with Noel when I was up in BC last week it sounds to me like he feels the Enorphin will be the perfect size for 650b and even the Chilcotin is stretching it for 650b as far as his philosophy and Chilcotin intended purpose goes....let alone delirium. Not trying to speak for Noel or Knolly Bikes but that was the impression I got.

    In fact the Chilcotin is so capable, I think he's struggling a bit deciding what to do with the delirium.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Very doubtful. Conversing with Noel when I was up in BC last week it sounds to me like he feels the Enorphin will be the perfect size for 650b and even the Chilcotin is stretching it for 650b as far as his philosophy and Chilcotin intended purpose goes....let alone delirium. Not trying to speak for Noel or Knolly Bikes but that was the impression I got.

    In fact the Chilcotin is so capable, I think he's struggling a bit deciding what to do with the delirium.
    That's a shame, I think that a longer travel Delirium hits Noel's original reason for designing a mountain bike--a DH bike that you can pedal to the top of the DH. The 650b makes the uphill and DH better.

    My Belief: Mountain bikes with larger diameter tires will appeal to every market segment except people who spend more time in the air than on the ground. And, even high-flyers come down to earth when they get older.

    Most people, especially me!, want to use technology to conquer their weaknesses. For examples, you can look at golf; or just look at the reasons people buy Knolly. (I have yet to see a person say they bought a Knolly because it was worse performing.) DH oriented mountain bikes are going to keep "progressing" in travel and tire size until they are lighter versions of dirt bikes (AKA motorcycles).

    The 650b is a step in this progression and will be introduced in longer and longer travel bikes until a physics or a manufacturing limitation stops it; because the 650b will make it easier to ride the same trail in most cases.

    My e-speculation: Knolly already has its next offering with the new Podium and Endorphins & Chilcotins with 650b tires. The next offering after that is going to be a longer-travel Delirium with a 650b option.
    Last edited by TSC; 10-11-2012 at 05:02 PM.
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    Last edited by Dusty Bottoms; 10-11-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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    Anyword on when Endo 650b will be out. I got the green light from the boss. Actually I don't but it is easier to ask forgiveness than permission

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    [QUOTE=TSC;9772292]That's a shame, I think that a longer travel Delirium hits Noel's original reason for designing a mountain bike--a DH bike that you can pedal to the top of the DH. The 650b makes the uphill and DH better.

    My Belief: Mountain bikes with larger diameter tires will appeal to every market segment except people who spend more time in the air than on the ground. And, even high-flyers come down to earth when they get older.

    Most people, especially me!, want to use technology to conquer their weaknesses. For examples, you can look at golf; or just at the reasons people buy Knolly. (I have yet to see a person say they bought a Knolly because it was worse performing.) DH oriented mountain bikes are going to keep "progressing" in travel and tire size until they are lighter versions of dirt bikes (AKA motorcycles).

    The 650b is a step in this progression and will be introduced in longer and longer travel bikes until a physics or a manufacturing limitation stops it; because the 650b will make it easier to ride the same trail in most cases.

    My e-speculation: Knolly already has its next offering with the new Podium and Endorphins & Chilcotins with 650b tires. The next offering is going to be a longer-travel Delirium with a 650b option.[/QUOTE


    Personally I would imagine the market for a new delirium is super niche and a lot of people that got the "old" delirium would be more than fine on a Chilcotin in slack mode since the Chilcotin is beyond capable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    a lot of existing 26" forks will take 650b. i know the bos deville does.
    Does it void the warranty?

    Just started looking for a 36mm and the Fox warranty says no on 650b.. vengeance is the only one i've found where they say it's compatible (@ 50sec) , it's coil too
    Last edited by J:; 10-11-2012 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    Personally I would imagine the market for a new delirium is super niche and a lot of people that got the "old" delirium would be more than fine on a Chilcotin in slack mode since the Chilcotin is beyond capable.
    The Chilcotin is "beyond capable"; but as Woodyak pointed out in a side-by-side comparison (with which Noel agreed) the Delirium is a bike more oriented for descending. And I'm sure that a new Delirium would be even better at pedaling, descending and climbing.

    I think locality influences our opinions on what is the best Knolly and what would sell the best. As I don't know the locations of future Knolly owners, I can't speculate on whether or not the new Delirium would be "super niche". HOWEVER, as a lazy Westerner who grew up on a motorcycle and can do a 2,900 foot DH by driving a few miles up a well-maintained road to a top of a mountain I like the idea of a new Delirium.

    Sorry for the poor quality. I took this picture a few minutes ago with my phone to show you what I mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    The Chilcotin is "beyond capable"; but as Woodyak pointed out in a side-by-side comparison (with which Noel agreed) the Delirium is a bike more oriented for descending. And I'm sure that a new Delirium would be even better at pedaling, descending and climbing.

    I think locality influences our opinions on what is the best Knolly and what would sell the best. As I don't know the locations of future Knolly owners, I can't speculate on whether or not the new Delirium would be "super niche". HOWEVER, as a lazy Westerner who grew up on a motorcycle and can do a 2,900 foot DH by driving a few miles up a well-maintained road to a top of a mountain I like the idea of a new Delirium.

    Sorry for the poor quality. I took this picture a few minutes ago with my phone to show you what I mean.
    If you're going to drive to the top of the mountainwhy not get a podium? I would venture if a new delirium was built the Endo and Chilcotin would outsell it 4 or 5 to 1. But I could be talking out my ar$e. I just think with the chilcotin being so capable even for those that really push bikes a new delirium would have to be squeezed into a tiny space before it encroaches into podium territory. If I were Noel I would think long and hard about what sort of market there is for a delirium beyond a few riders on a forum. Your average weekend warrior should be on (and will decide to be on) an endo or chilco IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilks View Post
    If you're going to drive to the top of the mountainwhy not get a podium? I would venture if a new delirium was built the Endo and Chilcotin would outsell it 4 or 5 to 1. But I could be talking out my ar$e. I just think with the chilcotin being so capable even for those that really push bikes a new delirium would have to be squeezed into a tiny space before it encroaches into podium territory. If I were Noel I would think long and hard about what sort of market there is for a delirium beyond a few riders on a forum. Your average weekend warrior should be on (and will decide to be on) an endo or chilco IMO.
    I am looking at the Podium (that's why I started the Podium build thread). That said, I've done all the toughest trails in my area on my Chili so I don't need a Delirium much less a Podium, but that doesn't stop me from wanting the perfect bike for the riding that I like in the area that I live. And, most of the DH in my area requires a pedal to get to the fun stuff. The Chili works great; however, I can't help but dream about a bike that has a bit more travel and is a bit more planted on the DH. Example:

    One of my favorite trails goes off the back side of that mountain in my previous post. It requires 2.5 miles of up & down pedaling to get to the REALLY FUN STUFF--3063 ft of elevation loss over 3.88 miles (see pic below). One section of the trail averages -21.5% grade, is surrounded by dense trees, and is strewn with softball-sized rocks, roots, and small drops. It is an absolute blast to rocket down at high speeds and hope you can stop for the upcoming corner. It's tons of fun on my Chili, but more than once I've had my Chili bouncing in more directions than is prudent (i.e. I have no clue why I didn't eat sh!t). It's in the moments after I get my Chili going in one direction that I think "I bet that would be awesome on a Delirium and SAFER TOO!"

    IMO, Knolly bikes do (and should) overlap capabilities, because most people ride various types of terrain. Here's my vision how each bike works best as one-bike quiver:

    -- Endorphin for those who spend more of their ride time doing XC than AM.
    -- Chilcotin for those that split their ride time ~30% XC, ~50% AM, and ~20% DH.
    -- Delirium for those that split their ride time ~10% XC, ~50% AM, and ~40% DH.
    -- Podium for those who spend the vast majority of their ride time doing DH with maybe a bit of shuttled AM.

    Does this look right to others, or am I up in the night?

    New Podium owners: am I selling the Podium short? Could it be used for AM?

    BTW, there is no "could be" for me. I know that I am talking out my ar$e! I lack the knowledge of current and potential Knolly customers to project sales. (Right now, the only thing I lack more is the desire to do quarterly taxes for my biz. If we keep this up I will be getting a call from the IRS! )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Geo will be very similar to the existing 26" designs, tweaked just a bit for the bigger wheels. Same travel, same frame aesthetics, same construction.

    Expect to see the Endo version out first
    Got a possible ETA for 650B Endorphin frames to start shipping?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I am looking at the Podium (that's why I started the Podium build thread). That said, I've done all the toughest trails in my area on my Chili so I don't need a Delirium much less a Podium, but that doesn't stop me from wanting the perfect bike for the riding that I like in the area that I live. And, most of the DH in my area requires a pedal to get to the fun stuff. The Chili works great; however, I can't help but dream about a bike that has a bit more travel and is a bit more planted on the DH.
    Well let's be honest, NEED doesn't really come into play when we are talking about the level of bikes we have. Sure, we could all be riding Giant Reigns or Specialized Demos, etc. Those and plenty of other less pricey frames would fit our needs just fine. But we WANT the higher level of quality and detail that goes into our Knollys.

    And there is something to be said for the right bike for the right application. My mother in law, who does some golfing, once asked me why I needed 3 pricey bikes. I simply said different trails call for different bikes, just one bike would be selling myself short on some trails. Then I said "Would you golf 18 holes with just 9 iron?" She instantly got it.
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    I get all of that my point was more aimed at responding to when and or how soon a new delirium might come out. Of course having every bike in the knolly stable would be great include a revamped delirium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Got a possible ETA for 650B Endorphin frames to start shipping?
    This would be nice to know but...If you had been through what Knolly has been through over the past year and a half...would you want to give out any more proposed dates for frame delivery?
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    Aby full pics of the 650b Endorphin?

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    I guess I'm in the minority when I say I think the V-Tach is still the perfect do all bike; for rippers who value ultimate performance in the all types of gnar, absolute confidence in frame integrity, and one of the fastest sleds that can be still be easily pedaled uphill. When that bike is pointed downhill, it just destroys. I've ridden Deleriums, own a Chilcotin, and still say the V-Tach is king. I'm surprised Knolly didn't just give it a diet and leave everything else the same. Course I haven't been on a Podium yet so...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatwheeled View Post
    Aby full pics of the 650b Endorphin?
    I haven't seen any yet....but I'm saving up for one right now.


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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    a lot of existing 26" forks will take 650b. i know the bos deville does.


    Fox Float 36 with Conti 2.4" Trail Kings on 26" P35 rims = ~10mm clearance to fork brace.



    When I get a 650B AM bike it will be running 2.4" rubber - ideally TKs if Conti makes 'em in 650B by then. I'll definitely need a new fork to fit everything.
    Last edited by vikb; 11-06-2012 at 05:47 PM.
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