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  1. #1
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    650B Endo, who's In?

    Ok, I am finally thinking I am set with bikes. I LOVE my Chilcotin, My Endo is mind blowing and I am thinking how could I ask for anything more? I'm totally set. Right? Well, then i start thinking of the 650b thing again and then the bronson drops and i start really thinking what it would take for me to spend my money on a new bike in 2013. then i read in "rock shox revelation question" thread that a 650b endo is set for release this year and it "might" be carbon?! ......i think i just had a accident in my pants!.... For my money, it HAS to be carbon. its not enough to swap my 26 Endo for the a 650 Endo in the same material. ... but if it's carbon at 5 pounds (frame only) xx1, and is that new pike 650b? tons of new 650 tires within days .... WTF? Now i am thinking about livin out of my van, taking a second job, and loving ramen noodles!

    what the rest of you Knolly geeks thinking?

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    I'll put my hand up for a 650b Endo....ali or carbon, but then I don't have the present 26 in version. I suppose given the choice I would go for carbon but from my limited experience a frame made of carbon feels quite different, smoother, damped but less alive? Is this other peoples findings? Technically I guess there are big advantages to using carbon though.

  3. #3
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    a 650B carbon Endo would be interesting for sure.
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    A friend's theory on upgrades: "You only need to upgrade if you break something or you're the slowest rider in your group of friends."

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    +1 for a 'rumoured' 650b Endo.

    The number of stones and small rocks i heard bouncing up and clinking on the alu chili frame the other day made me wonder the viability of carbon on UK trails. Id buy carbon only if it can be confirmed as tough/or tougher than Aluminium (which im lead to believe is possible).

    Ideal build for thyself would be with Bos Deville forks (650b 150mm, also 'rumoured' to drop this year), Bos Vipr shock and 2014 XX1 drivetrains (cheaper versions have also been 'rumoured').

    Nice if it materialised before this time next year, but not in a hurry / will wait for it... one has a Chili here.
    Last edited by cfrench; 04-14-2013 at 09:59 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    Now i am thinking about livin out of my van, taking a second job, and loving ramen noodles!

    what the rest of you Knolly geeks thinking?
    Wait, I thought you were already doing that.

    Sounds like a perfect complement to my chilcotin. I could build the chili up bigger/burlier for the gnarl and have the carbon 650 endo for the rest.

    Better start saving cause I've got nothing left to sell to finance the 650 endo......except the 300xcw and I'm not sure I'm ready for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    Sounds like a perfect complement to my chilcotin. I could build the chili up bigger/burlier for the gnarl and have the carbon 650 endo for the rest.
    thats the plan here too

  8. #8
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    It will be interesting to see what the specs are on the 650b Endo. It seems like 150 mm is becoming the sweet spot. The top 650 forks are also 150-160.

    I'm definitely interested in a carbon Endo but if it split the diffence in travel between my Endo and Chili I'm not sure what I would do. Would it be good enough to replace both?

    TG

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Would it be good enough to replace both?
    I mean this really depends on the terrain you ride, how often you ride different terrains, your style of riding each terrain, and whats fun or practical for 'you'.

    The more variations the better.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    It will be interesting to see what the specs are on the 650b Endo. It seems like 150 mm is becoming the sweet spot. The top 650 forks are also 150-160.

    I'm definitely interested in a carbon Endo but if it split the diffence in travel between my Endo and Chili I'm not sure what I would do. Would it be good enough to replace both?

    TG
    Interesting question. I have always been a fan of a 2 bike stable for our terrain, but I was quite happy with my original Endo as a one bike. I'm no so sure I could get rid of my Chili though. But a 150mm 650B would be pretty darn sweet!
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    My next bike will be a 650b and I wouldn't mind if it was a carbon Endo.

    Quote Originally Posted by KRob View Post
    ......except the 300xcw and I'm not sure I'm ready for that.
    Picked up a 450 xcw earlier this year. First moto. Love it. Bring your 300 next time you come out.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchcr View Post
    +1 for a 'rumoured' 650b Endo.

    The number of stones and small rocks i heard bouncing up and clinking on the alu chili frame the other day made me wonder the viability of carbon on UK trails. Id buy carbon only if it can be confirmed as tough/or tougher than Aluminium (which im lead to believe is possible).

    Ideal build for thyself would be with Bos Deville forks (650b 150mm, also 'rumoured' to drop this year), Bos Vipr shock and 2014 XX1 drivetrains (cheaper versions have also been 'rumoured').

    Nice if it materialised before this time next year, but not in a hurry / will wait for it... one has a Chili here.

    The following confirms what was only a rumour before. BOS have a 650b Deville Fork in the wing:
    SOC13: BOS Introduces New 27.5/650B, Enduro Specific Fork & Shock, Plus Weights - Bike Rumor
    They also have a new Enduro shock, 'The Kirk', which is an advancement to the awesome VIPR shock.
    Ive also been told the 650b Endo 'has been confirmed' for a release around September. Thats come from Knolly.
    BOS now has a US distributor incase any Knolites want to give this brand a go.

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    frenchcr, thanks for the info....all very interesting. They also mentioned they are working on a 29 inch fork.

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    Yeah I just got msg from the Aus importer and he said the same as frenchcr, late this year early next. As a side note he said he has heard nothing about carbon. One reason is probably being due to Noel being stoked about the srength/stiffness he is getting from Aluminium.

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    A 650b Endorphin sounds pretty great, but I doubt I'd replace (or supplement) my current '13 endo with one. Carbon might tempt me, but it sounds like that's not in the works, at least not for now. If I didn't already have the endo, the choice between the two would definitely be interesting and difficult...

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    Quote Originally Posted by beefmagic View Post
    A 650b Endorphin sounds pretty great, but I doubt I'd replace (or supplement) my current '13 endo with one. Carbon might tempt me, but it sounds like that's not in the works, at least not for now. If I didn't already have the endo, the choice between the two would definitely be interesting and difficult...
    Yeah. Interesting comparing 650b and 26, for sure.

    Lets try and unravel it..

    If im right, id say it comes down to 4 factors: 'Cost', 'Weight', 'Speed' and 'Feel'. There is a 5th unknown: Handling, but i wouldnt know how to look at 'Handling' without it being a function of the 'Speed' variable.

    I dont think it makes 'financial sense' in swapping out the current derivative of the endo for a 650b model (carbon or not)...unless someone can attach an 'unambigous proposed benefit' to one of the factors above, most likely 'Speed' or 'Feel' (as clearly 'Cost' and 'Weight' are not benefits of 650b).

    Carbon might make a lighter bike but where does the need come in (stiffness?), as an alu ENDO (26 or 650b) can be built to 25-26lbs. When you get below that weight, IMO, 24lb, the bike can actually feel too light for some, i.e. it doesnt feel as planted (some say 'skitish') especially in the wet, and the associated components are not as durable.

    In terms of 'Speed'...650b is allegedly, marginally faster. But are you already going flatout everywhere that you need this small speed boost? Are you racing others? Could you pedal a little more?

    As for the other factor, 'Feel'. Who knows? I, and nobody i know, have ever rode both on 'literally the same bike', so i cant say myself. But one thing i have noticed is that i have not seen or heard a report from anyone who says '650b is just so much more Fun'.

    The most evidence anybody has ever produced is that 650b does roll over larger rocks better. But the argument against this is: 'If you wanted to go faster, why dont you just ride smoother trails?'.

    Anybody want to try and unravel this any further?
    Last edited by cfrench; 04-20-2013 at 09:32 PM.

  17. #17
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    Why not a 29er Endo?

    My argument:

    --A 29er segments the Endo market (i.e. a 29er and 26er Endo can coexist because of varying customer desires); while a 650b would cannibalize most of the 26er market and would probably require Knolly to quit making the 26er because of cost reasons (yes, I picked a winner without backing it with data).

    --The death of the 26er would upset: 1) 26er fans; 2) those who just bought a bike that was "obsoleted"; and 3) the designer who put lots of hours into designing the new 26er Endo just to see it go away so quickly even while getting rave reviews.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Why not a 29er Endo?

    My argument:

    --A 29er segments the Endo market (i.e. a 29er and 26er Endo can coexist because of varying customer desires); while a 650b would cannibalize most of the 26er market and would probably require Knolly to quit making the 26er because of cost reasons (yes, I picked a winner without backing it with data).

    --The death of the 26er would upset: 1) 26er fans; 2) those who just bought a bike that was "obsoleted"; and 3) the designer who put lots of hours into designing the new 26er Endo just to see it go away so quickly even while getting rave reviews.
    I'd be all over a 140mm 29er.
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  19. #19
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    I'm all for a 650b Endo. I want something that's not a 29er for XC/Trail riding, and while the Endo 6er fits the bill, I do like how 9ers roll (but not how they handle). I figure a 650B'er gets me some of the roll with some of the flickability on a suspension system I'm a huge fan of.

    Unless Noel can pull off an Enduro 29er style chainstay length or wants a true XC type bike in the line up, doesn't make much sense for a 29er. I really liked my sultan(s mk I and mk II and mk II.5), but it was just too long of a bike when I gets fast flowy AND tight; the Trigger 1 I have now is definitely an improvement, but still compromises and just isn't as "zippy" as the Chili or Enduro 6er I have.

    Carbon or Alu 650B would be perfect with some Stan's Flows, 140-160MM 34ish stanchion fork with XX1... WANT, NOW!

    Edit: PS... I think Banshee is on to something with the drop out swapability between 6 and 650... just imagine those old Tachs and DTs with their swappable droppout/axles.

  20. #20
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    Noal has it sorted.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    I'm all for a 650b Endo. I want something that's not a 29er for XC/Trail riding, and while the Endo 6er fits the bill, I do like how 9ers roll (but not how they handle). I figure a 650B'er gets me some of the roll with some of the flickability on a suspension system I'm a huge fan of.

    Unless Noel can pull off an Enduro 29er style chainstay length or wants a true XC type bike in the line up, doesn't make much sense for a 29er. I really liked my sultan(s mk I and mk II and mk II.5), but it was just too long of a bike when I gets fast flowy AND tight; the Trigger 1 I have now is definitely an improvement, but still compromises and just isn't as "zippy" as the Chili or Enduro 6er I have.
    I agree that a 650b Endo would be a great bike. My post was about business strategy; and not about bike performance. Also, it was about short-term product development (i.e. I might want to phase out the 26er Endo in another 3 to 5 years and replace it with a 650b Endo).

    Intentionally, or unintentionally, your post is a perfect example of why if I were Noel of Knolly bikes I would NOT build a 650b Endo in the near future. You're the customer that wants incremental improvement on the 26er and see the 650b as that improvement; so you would buy the 650b instead of the 26er (i.e. cannibalize 26er sales). Furthermore, I would worry that a 650b Endo would be "enough" bike that people didn't see a need to purchase a Chili.

    If you were to put the different riding styles on spectrum along with the potential product offerings, I (thinking as a product manager) would think that the buyers would see this:

    |--------XC--------AM--------FR-------DH--------|
    |-----29er Endo-----|
    ..|------650 Endo-------|
    .....|----26er Endo----|
    ..........|-------26er Chili-------|
    ...................................|-------Podium--------|

    (NOTE: the periods before the "|" are just so I can get the editor to display the bikes at the correct positions along the spectrum. The editor treats multiple blank spaces as a single blank space.)

    A 650b Endo would:
    1) Cannibalize 26er Endo sales; and
    2) Not dramatically increase my customer base.

    A 29er Endo would:
    1) Increase my customer base by targeting a different demographic;
    2) Differentiate itself more from a 26er Endo more than would a 650b Endo (therefore, not cannibalizing as many sales); and
    3) Encourage more 2 or 3 bike quivers (as a company I want you to buy more of my products, not less).

    Obviously, my argument (and graph) show my belief that the larger 650b tire would add more to both ends of the Endo performance spectrum. I think the XC side is not in dispute. And, if one doesn't share the belief that the 650b will improve AM performance then it's hard to justify a 650b Endo in the first place.

    Anywho... that's why I wouldn't do it right now; but I'm not Noel.
    Last edited by TSC; 04-25-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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  22. #22
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    A lot of these arguments are why I think the Endo will be 150mm of travel. This also leaves room for a trail 29er in the 125mm range.

    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I agree that a 650b Endo would be a great bike. My post was about business strategy; and not about bike performance. Also, it was about short-term product development (i.e. I might want to phase out the 26er Endo in another 3 to 5 years and replace it with a 650b Endo).

    Intentionally, or unintentionally, your post is a perfect example of why if I were Noel of Knolly bikes I would NOT build a 650b Endo in the near future. You're the customer that wants incremental improvement on the 26er and see the 650b as that improvement; so you would buy the 650b instead of the 26er (i.e. cannibalize 26er sales). Furthermore, I would worry that a 650b Endo would be "enough" bike that people didn't see a need to purchase a Chili.

    If you were to put the different riding styles on spectrum along with the potential product offerings, I (thinking as a product manager) would think that the buyers would see this:

    |--------XC--------AM--------FR-------DH--------|
    |-----29er Endo-----|
    ..|------650 Endo-------|
    .....|----26er Endo----|
    ..........|-------26er Chili-------|
    ...................................|-------Podium--------|

    (NOTE: the periods before the "|" are just so I can get the editor to display the bikes at the correct positions along the spectrum. The editor treats multiple blank spaces as a single blank space.)

    A 650b Endo would:
    1) Cannibalize 26er Endo sales; and
    2) Not dramatically increase my customer base.

    A 29er Endo would:
    1) Increase my customer base by targeting a different demographic;
    2) Differentiate itself more from a 26er Endo more than would a 650b Endo (therefore, not cannibalizing as many sales); and
    3) Encourage more 2 or 3 bike quivers (as a company I want you to buy more of my products, not less).

    Obviously, my argument (and graph) show my belief that the larger 650b tire would add more to both ends of the Endo performance spectrum. I think the XC side is not in dispute. And, if one doesn't share the belief that the 650b will improve AM performance then it's hard to justify a 650b Endo in the first place.

    Anywho... that's why I wouldn't do it right now; but I'm not Noel.

  23. #23
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    Understood, I'd say that there's a more complimentary than destructive aspect to the Endo B, if you have the 6er and you're on it as your trail bike or want one, you've already decided you don't want a 650B or 29er for whatever reason. Probably because they just don't handle same as the 6er variety, Knolly has never been about chasing trends and market but dialing in product space they really know.

    The 9er would definitely bring new buyers into the Knolly fold, but unless it handles/pedals like an Endo, which handles/peddles like a small Chili, which handles/pedals like a small Podium, then its destructive to the brand. Not saying we want to ride the same bike, but I think we buy Knolly bikes because they have very distinct characteristics and they're best in class.

    If you're a Knolly rider looking for a bit more of the roll and willing to go outside of 6er, 650b is safest move for Knolly to go in, same same but different to 6er where as the engineering challenges on a 9er might end up with too many compromises.

    Adding a 29er that's not dialed to descend and rip like all the others wouldn't make much sense since Knolly has never tried to play complete segmentation coverage. I do want to try the new Enduro 29, have a buddy getting one in the coming weeks and I'll see if I have same hang ups with it as I've developed over the years on other 29ers. If thats as sweet as the 26 Enduro, then that's an easy choice and I'd say knolly should go that direction all day long. But until Knolly can deliver that sweet ride in a 29 platform, I'm happy to go with 650B for the extra XC edge in the meantime.

    (just discussing here, lots of angles... and I think 650b gives your more XC zoom than AM, or else I'd stick to 26 all day)

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    Food for thought (assuming very flexible bike budgets):

    Get 26er Endo, go to Fox 34 or Pike 650B 150MM fork (assuming the 10MM less from top spec'ed Endo fork keeps geo "true" in that a2c is still within spec), run 650B front, and 26 rear. When/if 650B endo comes along, sell frame and re-build rear wheel to 650B swap everything to Endo B ride into sunset.

    Thoughts assuming Endo out and Endo in doesn't kill wallet (i.e. used Endo if there is one out there)? Would you do it?

    I think you'd get a flavor for the 650B without killing the Endo geo and your wallet if you're committed to eventually running 650 B (i.e. fork, 2 hoops + wheel build).

  25. #25
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    I'm glad Noel runs the company instead of mtbr. Lets go ride our bad ass bikes and leave the strategic planning to him.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    The 9er would definitely bring new buyers into the Knolly fold, but unless it handles/pedals like an Endo, which handles/peddles like a small Chili, which handles/pedals like a small Podium, then its destructive to the brand. Not saying we want to ride the same bike, but I think we buy Knolly bikes because they have very distinct characteristics and they're best in class.

    (just discussing here, lots of angles... and I think 650b gives your more XC zoom than AM, or else I'd stick to 26 all day)
    Interesting thoughts for sure. Only Noel knows the answer to where Knolly is headed. I don't think it would be a sustainable business if Noel tried to make every bike feel the same. The first bikes catered to the freeride crowd and he has grown from there.

    I think a lot of people thought the new Endo would be a mini Chili. It is not, and from what i understand Noel didn't want it to be. As I understand it, he wanted to make a trail ripper and create some space between the Chili and Endo. I think he did a good job.

    I see Knolly competing with the likes of Turner and Ibis. These companies have a wide range of bikes (with the addition of the Czar and Ripley) but they are unique and distinct to there name brand. Who knows what the Knolly line up would look like if they didn't have the manufacturing hick up last year? I would think to grow the brand and be competitive in todays market you would have to have everything from a light weight carbon trail bike to a DH sled.

    It must be hard for smaller companies these days. Surprisingly, things are still changing quickly. Do you make a 27.5 or a 29er? Do you go with less travel or more travel? It seems like the fork makers are targeting the 150mm range for 27.5. Now you have the bunch of companies coming out with 150mm travel bikes. Like mentioned above, if you come out with a 140mm 27.5 does that kill the Endo?

    How about:
    125mm 29er Trail
    150mm 27.5 Enduro
    140 Endo
    160 Chili
    Podium

    Just speculating and having some fun.

    TG

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR View Post
    Just speculating and having some fun.
    TG
    And I'm glad that you and thefriar are providing a different perspective. Your inputs are opening my mind. I like that!

    Question: is there any performance reason that a chainstay can't be designed to have an upwards slant? Knolly's straight seat tube that doesn't go directly into the bottom bracket creates ample room for a 30+ inch wheel while keeping a low BB height. Think of it: Knolly is the first bike with 32" wheels!!!


    The 32" thing is just to make people's jaw drop; but the chainstay question is genuine.
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  28. #28
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    I'd love to see an Endo Carbon 26'r. Something with the same weight and toughness of a Blur LTC. If that were to happen I'd coil out the Chilly and make the EndoC my goto bike. I was actually came up with this thought today as I was tearing around some buff trails on my Yeti Trail bike. I was thinking of how sweet it would be if I could accelerate this fast and not be afraid to throw the bike around. Yeah, I could build up an AL Endo but I'd be adding over 2lbs. to my race bike. If they could carbon it and bring it down to less than a pound difference I'd be all over it.

    So you build up an Endo C with a 36 float, Enve AM rims, other light but stronger bits and you have a 26-ish lb. AM bike that's tough enough to take some solid abuse but is light enough and pedals well enough to race with. It's pretty much my dream bike right now. Don't get me wrong I still love the Chilly but when your trails are as peddly as mine you do pine for something lighter and more nimble on those longer grinder rides.

    650B is still meh in my book, but I did say that about dropper posts and now I want one on every bike. I have pedaled one and I've been on a few niners and the lack of playfulness overroad any pedaling benefits that it might have had. For me to take it seriously I'd have to see some more fork, tire, wheel choices and spend some serious time on one. It does seem like the hot thing right now so it'd be cool to see Knolly have one and do some business.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Question: is there any performance reason that a chainstay can't be designed to have an upwards slant?
    OR... just put make the tire ride higher in the dropout area to keep the BB lower on a 29er? (I think thefriar was getting at this.)
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  30. #30
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    So no thoughts on going for an Endo 26 frankenstiened to 650?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    So no thoughts on going for an Endo 26 frankenstiened to 650?
    I run my Chilcotin like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    I run my Chilcotin like that
    Loamranger, are you doing that front and back or just 650 on front?
    I've got my endo with 650 in a magura TS8 now but still 26 in back, and only tonight realized I could slide a 650 in back also. I have a wheel to try it with so may do but I'm curious if you've done 650 both ends what your impressions are.

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    kark, 650b front only. I don't think 650b 2.35 HD's will fit the back?

  34. #34
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    Is the trend to do a 150mm rear travel bike in 650b like the Santa Cruz Bronson? I've not kept up, but if more manufacturers are going that way, that could make things interesting in terms of were a 650b Endo would fall travel wise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefriar View Post
    So no thoughts on going for an Endo 26 frankenstiened to 650?
    if you keep your 26 inch wheels then put the largest volume 26' tyre on the front then something skiiny like a maxxis crossmark on the back youll have acheived almost the same thing.

    best wait for the 650b endo its only a few months away

  36. #36
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    For XC duties the 650b is likely the best all around tire size. I envision the Endo-C being half race bike/half XC training/trail bike. It would replace the 26" Endo in this category. Essentially, not eat into sales, but bring higher performance to that category. Noel has shown that he is in the business of making the best bikes possible, and not just making a bike that will sell to a particular niche.

    A complete line would be:


    29'r carbon HT race --> 650b carbon FS trail/race --> Al Chilcotin --> Al Podium
    .................................................. ............................................< Al Vtach
    .................................................. .............................................< Ti DJ bike
    .................................................. ..............................................< steel SS
    .................................................. ...............................................<Ca rbon Triathlon

    Unfortunately, I see little room for the Delerium, and a very small market for the Vtach, but would sell in limited quantities to those replacing their aging frames, and is worth a limited production run for historical reasons. Knolly road bikes would be silly. But I would love to see a Ti DJ hardtail.
    Regional Race Manager, Knolly Bikes
    Washington, Oregon, Montana, Idaho, Wyoming

  37. #37
    TSC
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    EDIT: I'm not trying to upset anyone. Sorry if I am. Much of what I've said in my resent posts has been to show that there are legitimate business reasons why you might not get what you want. If I'm wrong and a 650b Carbon Endo hits get released then I will be happy too!

    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Is the trend to do a 150mm rear travel bike in 650b like the Santa Cruz Bronson? I've not kept up, but if more manufacturers are going that way, that could make things interesting in terms of were a 650b Endo would fall travel wise.
    The push is for biggest tire possible, without sacrificing handling (some might say, "without sacrificing handling too much").

    Interesting Video: Specialized Enduro 29er (Note: Specialized's website says the chainstay grew 11mm. In this vid the guy says the chainstay increased less than 10mm and he also insinuates that the Enduro 29er has 160mm of travel. Both are incorrect according to Speci's website.)

    Enduro Specs:
    26er: 165mm of travel with 419mm chainstay length
    29er: 155mm of travel with 430mm chainstay length

    As a comparison:
    Endorphin: 140mm of travel with 425mm chainstay length
    Chilcotin: 160mm of travel with 429mm chainstay length


    BTW, there are some new 650b DH bikes and some companies are trying to develop 29er DH bikes.


    FWIW, I am NOT anti-650b. I would love to have a 650b Endo, Chili, Delirium, or Podium. In October 2012, I wrote the following on a different thread:

    My Belief: Mountain bikes with larger diameter tires will appeal to every market segment except people who spend more time in the air than on the ground. And, even high-flyers come down to earth when they get older.

    Most people, especially me!, want to use technology to conquer their weaknesses. For examples, you can look at golf; or just look at the reasons people buy Knolly. (I have yet to see a person say they bought a Knolly because it was worse performing.) DH oriented mountain bikes are going to keep "progressing" in travel and tire size until they are lighter versions of dirt bikes (AKA motorcycles).

    The 650b is a step in this progression and will be introduced in longer and longer travel bikes until physics or a manufacturing limitation stops it; because the 650b will make it easier to ride the same trail in most cases.
    My beliefs haven't changed much since then. The only "addition" would be that the 650b will cannibalize most of the 26er market; and Knolly should release a 29er Endorphin before a 650b Endorphin, especially if the new 650b Endo is Carbon.
    Last edited by TSC; 05-01-2013 at 11:01 AM.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfarrell View Post
    what the rest of you Knolly geeks thinking?
    I've started selling bikes and saving $$ for my next MTB. It's going to be 650B. I'm hoping for a 650B Chili as a bike to consider.

    The SC Bronson is in the running, but I'm hoping SC will release a 650B Nomad before I have to decide.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  39. #39
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    Been riding 650B in New England for 4+ years now. Converted Cannondale Prophet, 2011 Jamis Dakar B2, and now building up a new 650B Banshee Spitfire V2. I'm a true convert and believer in the size but for many still it's a cup half full vs a cup half empty. Best of both worlds (26/29) or the worst of both worlds. Especially for the diehard 26 or 29 rider. I'm in the cup half full group. IMHO 650B improves on both sides of the XC and AM worlds from 26. I also believe as you go up in each wheel size there is some playfulness that is lost. Going to 650B it's a pretty small penalty to pay (which the benefits outweigh IMO) and some may not even notice the difference while going to 29 you will for sure. As soon as I went 650B on the Prophet I noticed the immediate improvement (despite a 14.25" BB height which is not a bad thing in New England) in rolling, traction, not getting hung up as easily on roots/rocks and less harshness at the bars (that was a biggie and unexpected surprise). Now we have a dam good selection of 650B tires with some of these almost 28" tall (that's small 29'er territory as an FYI), decent selection of forks and rims and what seems to be new 27.5" bikes arriving monthly and more and more tires across the board.

    I'm all for a 650B Knolly Endorphin (carbon or aluminum) and truly believe it will make this bike even better. I contacted Knolly many months ago and was told it would be available this summer. Maybe that's been pushed back a bit? I also believe they should make it 150mm rear travel as the 140 becomes sort of a fork conundrum if you want something bigger than a 32mm stanchion and to match the rear travel. The only 34/35mm fork that easily will convert to 140 travel is the new X-Fusion Sweep which isn't available until August/September. All the others are 150/160. I have to believe that most Endorphin owners put a 150mm fork on it so why not have the back match? (maybe to keep it light trail bike vs heading towards AM Chilly territory??? I don't know)

    In the end I wasn't gonna wait around for the 650B Endorphin to appear and I'll be honest, living in New England I don't want to live with it's BB height which I was also told would be similar to the current Endorphin (see the review of Endorphin in New England and it's the 1st thing mentioned, and he's lived with it but I wont). With my Spitfires adjustable geometry I can go from under 13.5" to almost 14" which is very nice. Still, when it finally arrives I think it's gonna be an amazing bike and my gut feeling is (and I have been so right on with this through the 650B phase) if you have the choice right in front of you to purchase either a 26" or 650B Endorphin you will buy the 650B Endorphin. Unless they make it with convertible dropouts to run 26 or 650 like the Banshee Spitfire/Rune it's gonna kill off the 26" model. Now all that being said a nice 29'er version sure would be interesting (I have nothing against 29'ers either, just another nice option out there with it's own pros/cons)
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    I'm all for a 650B Knolly Endorphin (carbon or aluminum) and truly believe it will make this bike even better. I contacted Knolly many months ago and was told it would be available this summer. Maybe that's been pushed back a bit? I also believe they should make it 150mm rear travel as the 140 becomes sort of a fork conundrum if you want something bigger than a 32mm stanchion and to match the rear travel. The only 34/35mm fork that easily will convert to 140 travel is the new X-Fusion Sweep which isn't available until August/September. All the others are 150/160. I have to believe that most Endorphin owners put a 150mm fork on it so why not have the back match? (maybe to keep it light trail bike vs heading towards AM Chilly territory??? I don't know)
    Bos Deville 140mm AM Tapered, 1800g, 34mm stantions, and the best damping in the market. Thats what im putting on my 650b Endo when they arrive.

    There are quite a few very good bike designs out there with 150 forks and less than 150mm rear wheel travel too and they munch the gnar very well (just isnt very kind launching them off too big drops).

    HTH

  41. #41
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    I vote 650B, 150mm, 13.5"bb and shortest stays possible to fit a 2.35" S Hans D rear with decent clearance.

  42. #42
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    I see Noel lurking. If you're reading this, I vote for a 130-140mm 650b Endorphin (in carbon), 67 HA and 13.2 BB height so as not to encroach on Chilcotin territory. I need a fast, light trail slayer with (a little) bigger wheels for that extra momentum for a second bike. Not a big steamroller. Fun, flickable, poppy but still capable in moderate chunk.

    Thank you.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
    Isaiah 58:14

    www.stuckinthespokes.com

  43. #43
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    Bos Deville 140mm AM Tapered, 1800g, 34mm stantions, and the best damping in the market. Thats what im putting on my 650b Endo when they arrive.
    Yummy That would be sweet on my Spitfire also but I'm afraid to see what it will cost here in the US

  44. #44
    No Clue Crew
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    Kent: That's EXACTLY the bike I'm looking for. I wish it existed as I've got coin burning a hole in my pocket.

  45. #45
    Knomer
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    Patience grasshoppers. Many of you are on the right track.
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Patience grasshoppers. Many of you are on the right track.
    How patient? There's a carbon proto in the back seat of that Audi, isn't there? When are you taking orders? ..... Honestly, it would be hard to improve the trail slaying capabilities of the 26 Endo, but hell, I said that about the dt and the original Endo and each of their replacements where undoubtably better, so let me be first in line!!

  47. #47
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    Im guessing that in Sept they will release a 140mm 650b Endorphin in Alu with 67.5 HA thats lighter than the current Endo and has 3D rockers.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    Patience grasshoppers. Many of you are on the right track.
    So lets see....
    150mm travel 27.5
    Carbon
    Climbs better than the Endo
    Descends better than the Chili
    Super light with lifetime warranty
    Dusty B easy touch uphill assist

    Anything else we should know?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Yummy That would be sweet on my Spitfire also but I'm afraid to see what it will cost here in the US
    I've bought BOS stuff from Europe. Cheaper than Fox garbage as you don't pay VAT. So you take approx 17.5% off for a start. Allegedly BOS will have US support a s distribution soon too.

  50. #50
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    Something along these lines will be a real contender for my next Knolly

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