• 07-27-2012
    apat13
    650b on a Chilcotin - with Pics!
    Pacenti TL28 w/ 2.1 Neo-Moto....plenty of clearance!

    Seat Stays


    Chain Stays


    Rear End


    Granted the Neo-Moto is pretty small for AM/Light FR but there looks to be enough clearance to go a little bigger. More testing to come....
  • 07-27-2012
    scottybinwv
    You are my hero!
  • 07-27-2012
    aedubber
    Well besides just putting a tire on doesnt mean it works lol , did you actually take it out for a spin ? and what air pressure were you running in the tires ? Looks a bit too tight :/
  • 07-27-2012
    craigstr
    Why would you want to frankenbike such a great frame? I'm sure Noel just got a migraine and he is wondering WTF?
  • 07-27-2012
    apat13
    Sorry, no rides to report...this was just a test fit on an unbuilt frame (I test fit the wheels into just about any frame that come through). Tires have 32 PSI, mounted to the 28mm wide rim. Not sure what kind of 650 clearance you are used too but this is more than a lot of frames offer. It may be a moot point because I am not sure a bigger tire will even fit but I think the possibilities are very cool.

    ....nothing frankenbike about 650b either....wave of the future my friends.....wave of the future. Assuming a bigger tire could squeeze in there I love the concept of a 6.3" travel enduro Chili with the rolling advantage of 650b's. It may be a moot point because I don't think I could fit a quasi-moto in there....but might be fun to play with nonetheless.
  • 07-27-2012
    craigstr
    I've had a V2 Titus Rockstar demo for a several weeks now so I am aware of the advantages of bigger wheels and the pitfalls. 650B may be the future but it will be on a frame that is designed around the wheel size.
  • 07-27-2012
    apat13
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    I've had a V2 Titus Rockstar demo for a several weeks now so I am aware of the advantages of bigger wheels and the pitfalls. 650B may be the future but it will be on a frame that is designed around the wheel size.

    Not sure I can find any advantages in a steep angled cross country 29er with gargantuan 18" chain stays like the Titus Rockstar....it is pretty much everything I find wrong with 29er's. Herein lies the beauty of 650b: we can keep our slack angles, long travel, and super short stays while still getting increased rollover. If I could squeeze one into my Endorphin I would swap it out in a heartbeat....although thinking about it I am not sure I would have the heart to....the bike is just so damn good the way it is....only bike I have every built that I have not made any changes to since build up.
  • 07-27-2012
    craigstr
    Really? Somebody neg repped me for this? Told me to "go away". Not going anywhere buddy, been a knolly owner for years and dont plan on that ever changing.
  • 07-27-2012
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Really? Somebody neg repped me for this? Told me to "go away". Not going anywhere buddy, been a knolly owner for years and dont plan on that ever changing.

    you can't try to derail the 650b freight train:rolleyes: people will get their shorts in a knot. . still trying to figure who's begging for 650b, but somebody obviously is.
  • 07-27-2012
    apat13
    Just to be clear...I am not saying running 650b on a Chilcotin is a good or bad idea...just showing those that are interested that the Chili can squeeze a 650b in the back which makes me curious about what could be done with that. That is all. Just saying it fits.
  • 07-27-2012
    Rock dude
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    Not going anywhere buddy, been a knolly owner for years and dont plan on that ever changing.

    :thumbsup:
  • 07-27-2012
    Bullit_cn
    Glad to see it fit:thumbsup:
  • 07-27-2012
    arkon11
    Yeah I can't see what the purpose of putting 650b tires on a Chili, or any knolly for that matter. They were designed around 26" wheels, so ride them accordingly.

    Seriously though, that clearance looks a little too close for comfort.
  • 07-27-2012
    BC
    I'm holding out for the 25.75 format :-)
  • 07-27-2012
    aedubber
    Gotta love neg reps for replying in a forum LOL tools...
  • 07-27-2012
    J:
    no dl 31??
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    Granted the Neo-Moto is pretty small for AM/Light FR but there looks to be enough clearance to go a little bigger. More testing to come....

    Man be careful, those will grow on you... used to try and cram the chunky tires on my hardtail, they bind up at the worst time
  • 07-27-2012
    qbert2000
    regardless, the chili is a great 26" bike. i would want to try a dedicated 650b bike before i tried to bastardize a 26' model. maybe knolly has a 650b in the works, for me i'm more than happy on 26" and enjoy having tons of choice in rims, tires and forks.

    once 650b has that stuff all lined up, maybe
  • 07-27-2012
    aedubber
    26 for life :) .. 26 or 29 or 27.5 or whatever you wanna call it .. Personally i still feel its all about the rider and not the wheels etc .
  • 07-27-2012
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by aedubber View Post
    26 for life :) .. 26 or 29 or 27.5 or whatever you wanna call it .. Personally i still feel its all about the rider and not the wheels etc .

    me too, i just feel it's kinda crazy to throw 650b wheels on a bike designed for 26". ride whatever you like, but once you start messing with a bikes original design, it's acrap shoot
  • 07-27-2012
    Dusty Bottoms
    What is "650"? Have I missed something?
  • 07-28-2012
    loamranger
    apat 13, thanks for the information.
  • 07-28-2012
    catch22
    Well, this proves to me that most XCish 650b tires won't be significantly larger than a nice high volume 26er trail tire. My moderatly worn Advantage 2.4 on the rear has less than 3/8 inch clearance. As new I'm guessing it was maybe 1/8 of an inch smaller than that tire. I'll take good traction and a sturdier tire on this one. I'd still be curious about a 650b trailbike that was designed to fit something like a 2.4 Trail King.
  • 07-28-2012
    apat13
    wow....Craigstr negative repped me for this thread. Really man? Not really sure what to make of that. At least I got my first negative rep....my cherry is popped!

    For those that are interested, a Nevegal 650b rubbed....so it looks like any substantial 650b tire is not going to work.

    Oh well, I guess now I will just go bask in my negative rep from craigstr....he is an official product tester and "brand ambassador" after all so I am sure I can learn something important from this.
  • 07-28-2012
    craigstr
    Retaliatory strike. If you didnt neg rep me then I apologize.
  • 07-28-2012
    apat13
    wasn't me homie. I am just here to play with bikes.
  • 07-29-2012
    delirian
    looking at the pics,,, the tire looks very close to the chainstay in that top pic,,, wouldnt the tire contact the frame under fast cornering as the wheels flexes,,,,,
  • 07-29-2012
    bionicman
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    well, this proves to me that most xcish 650b tires won't be significantly larger than a nice high volume 26er trail tire. My moderatly worn advantage 2.4 on the rear has less than 3/8 inch clearance. As new i'm guessing it was maybe 1/8 of an inch smaller than that tire. I'll take good traction and a sturdier tire on this one. I'd still be curious about a 650b trailbike that was designed to fit something like a 2.4 trail king.

    ..
    +1
  • 07-29-2012
    J:
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    What is "650"? Have I missed something?

    Cue the 650....D

    w/ custom 2.4 knolly rubbers:eek:
  • 07-29-2012
    altadank
    all this sniveling over "rep points" is ****ing hilarious.



    lets all do a ball check to make sure there is still hair down there boyzzzZ. 'cause we're all grown men here to talk bikes and **** , RIGHT?
  • 07-29-2012
    craigstr
    Yeah, whoever gave me neg reps for such a benign comment definetly needs to do a ball check. I could care less about rep points, it just bugs me when someone tells me to "go away"! I bet he felt really tough typing that on his keyboard.
  • 07-30-2012
    jstaples
    ...
  • 07-30-2012
    apat13
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jstaples View Post
    I just put conti 2.4 trail kings on my endorphin tonight. I bet they give just as much rollover as those small tires on the 650b wheels. In fact, I was riding with my son who was on my 29er and the top of my 26" tires were only about 1.25" below the tops of the 29er tires. The handling of the endorphin, meaty high volume tires, and the rollover of a 650b. No need for a new wheelset.

    I agree! Nobody is arguing that this is something anyone should do.. Just playing with ideas...playing with setup. Lots of people are interested in 650b and there have been several posts in the Knolly forum asking about fitment. I LOVE my endorphin with 26" wheels....but I would see how it rode with 650b if they would fit, just to find out. I would do the same with 29" just to know how it felt....learning is everything :rainbow:
  • 07-30-2012
    thedeathstar
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    I could care less about rep points, it just bugs me when someone tells me to "go away"! I bet he felt really tough typing that on his keyboard.

    Tough to say you don't care when you whine about it every single time. No need to respond to this by the way, we've all heard it.

    Just going to add to everyone who says that the fit might not be so great once you ride the bike. My friend got the biggest tires that he could just barely fit on his 29er and they seem to bulge out and catch his seat stays at inopportune times.
  • 07-31-2012
    craigstr
    Thanks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by thedeathstar View Post
    Tough to say you don't care when you whine about it every single time. No need to respond to this by the way, we've all heard it.

    For being my mom and telling me what I can and cannot do.
  • 07-31-2012
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    For being my mom and telling me what I can and cannot do.

    wow, you just can't resist:rolleyes:
  • 07-31-2012
    craigstr
    Nope, nor do I want to.
  • 07-31-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    Well, this proves to me that most XCish 650b tires won't be significantly larger than a nice high volume 26er trail tire. My moderatly worn Advantage 2.4 on the rear has less than 3/8 inch clearance. As new I'm guessing it was maybe 1/8 of an inch smaller than that tire. I'll take good traction and a sturdier tire on this one. I'd still be curious about a 650b trailbike that was designed to fit something like a 2.4 Trail King.

    Gotta go with catch22 on this. If a 26 x 2.4 provides the same outside diameter as the 27.5 x 2.1 then it isn't offering an improvement in getting over bumps and holes. IMO, it would be worse.

    How would the 27.5 x 2.1 setup compare to a 26 x 2.4 in the following:

    --Tire deflection at same pressure?
    --Rolling resistance?
    --Traction?
    --Which weighs more on the outside part of the wheel (bigger rim and smaller tire or smaller rim and bigger tire)?
  • 07-31-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Just pointing out a trend here...
    The closer a thread gets to discussing 29"ers, the bytchier it gets.
  • 07-31-2012
    Renegade
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by craigstr View Post
    For being my mom and telling me what I can and cannot do.

    So, you can turn your 6 inch all mountain el guapo into an xc race bike, and you expect no comments, but you jump all over the OP cause he tried something slightly out of scope here? Hello perspective? Pot calling the kettle black? C'mon Craig.
  • 07-31-2012
    apat13
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    Gotta go with catch22 on this. If a 26 x 2.4 provides the same outside diameter as the 27.5 x 2.1 then it isn't offering an improvement in getting over bumps and holes. IMO, it would be worse.

    How would the 27.5 x 2.1 setup compare to a 26 x 2.4 in the following:

    --Tire deflection at same pressure?
    --Rolling resistance?
    --Traction?
    --Which weighs more on the outside part of the wheel (bigger rim and smaller tire or smaller rim and bigger tire)?

    Definitely not the same as a 26x2.4. The last Chili I built used 2.4 Ardents on Flows and there was ample clearance in the frame...likewise on my buddies (last generation) Endorphin. On my Endorphin (last generation), I cannot even get that same (XC) 650b in the frame without deflating it first, and it rubs as soon as air goes back in. Mos Def a no go on the 650b where a 26x2.4 (minions also fit fine) is good.

    Back to my bigger point: I am not saying a Chili would work well with a 650bx2.1 tire, I was just showing that one could be squeezed into the frame....I would certainly rather run a super fat 26 (HANS DAMPH's are downright filthy on a Chilcotin), but I would also love to ride it with those 650's just to know how it felt. How can one know if they don't try?
  • 07-31-2012
    craigstr
    Oh good, Renegade is here.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    So, you can turn your 6 inch all mountain el guapo into an xc race bike, and you expect no comments, but you jump all over the OP cause he tried something slightly out of scope here? Hello perspective? Pot calling the kettle black? C'mon Craig.

    Really? XC race bike? Hardly. Float 36, AM Wheels, Dropper Post, Haven bars, 2x10, chainguide. The idea was a light AM bike I could race at Northstar which is more Enduro type racing. I used the same bike in Super D races too. Never "expected no comments". Never "jumped all over the the OP" either, I just dont understand why someone would stuff larger wheels in a frame and mess up the geometry, why not try a frame designed for the wheel size.
  • 07-31-2012
    SOCAL_STINKY
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    Definitely not the same as a 26x2.4. The last Chili I built used 2.4 Ardents on Flows and there was ample clearance in the frame...likewise on my buddies (last generation) Endorphin. On my Endorphin (last generation), I cannot even get that same (XC) 650b in the frame without deflating it first, and it rubs as soon as air goes back in. Mos Def a no go on the 650b where a 26x2.4 (minions also fit fine) is good.

    Back to my bigger point: I am not saying a Chili would work well with a 650bx2.1 tire, I was just showing that one could be squeezed into the frame....I would certainly rather run a super fat 26 (HANS DAMPH's are downright filthy on a Chilcotin), but I would also love to ride it with those 650's just to know how it felt. How can one know if they don't try?

    Yeah I am surprised how big my Hans Dampf feel and look.
  • 07-31-2012
    apat13
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SOCAL_STINKY View Post
    Yeah I am surprised how big my Hans Dampf feel and look.

    Yeah....they are just silly fun tires. Instagrip traction all the time....like trail velcro.
  • 07-31-2012
    LeeL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    What is "650"? Have I missed something?

    It's like viagra for MTBR electronic keyboard jockeys. With a roll of Kleenex and a double headed black mamba. Hope that helps
  • 08-01-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by apat13 View Post
    Definitely not the same as a 26x2.4. The last Chili I built used 2.4 Ardents on Flows and there was ample clearance in the frame...likewise on my buddies (last generation) Endorphin. On my Endorphin (last generation), I cannot even get that same (XC) 650b in the frame without deflating it first, and it rubs as soon as air goes back in. Mos Def a no go on the 650b where a 26x2.4 (minions also fit fine) is good.

    Back to my bigger point: I am not saying a Chili would work well with a 650bx2.1 tire, I was just showing that one could be squeezed into the frame....I would certainly rather run a super fat 26 (HANS DAMPH's are downright filthy on a Chilcotin), but I would also love to ride it with those 650's just to know how it felt. How can one know if they don't try?

    I'm sorry if my post seemed like it was opposing what you had done. On the contrary to what you may have thought, I'm all for experimentation. I was just conjecturing that a 650b that has the same outside diameter as a 26 wouldn't offer the commonly-sought advantages. However, I think both wheels would have advantages and disadvantages. (Example: I really the 650b mounted on carbon rim with a smaller tire would offer less centrifugal force than a 26er with a large tire, because of less weight out at the edge.) My questions were focused on the pros & cons of same-diameter 650b vs 26er.

    My comments had nothing to do with the "desecration" of a 26er. (I'm not religious; even about bikes.) They were more focused on a wheel-set comparison. Do whatever you want; just be sure to post a ride report! :thumbsup:
  • 08-01-2012
    apat13
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I'm sorry if my post seemed like it was opposing what you had done. On the contrary to what you may have thought, I'm all for experimentation. I was just conjecturing that a 650b that has the same outside diameter as a 26 wouldn't offer the commonly-sought advantages. However, I think both wheels would have advantages and disadvantages. (Example: I really the 650b mounted on carbon rim with a smaller tire would offer less centrifugal force than a 26er with a large tire, because of less weight out at the edge.) My questions were focused on the pros & cons of same-diameter 650b vs 26er.

    My comments had nothing to do with the desecration of a 26er. (I'm not religious; even about bikes.) They were more focused on a wheel-set comparison. Do whatever you want; just be sure to post a ride report! :thumbsup:

    No apologies necessary....I just wanted to make sure people know there is a definite, measurable difference even between a small 650 and a large 26 (although every time I look at my endo with ardents sitting right next to my 650b hard tail I keep thinking "man it's so close...maybe they will fit after all!")
  • 08-18-2012
    StiHacka
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LeeL View Post
    It's like viagra for MTBR electronic keyboard jockeys. With a roll of Kleenex and a double headed black mamba. Hope that helps

    Interesting comment Lee.
  • 08-24-2012
    J:
    Double headed black mamba???
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    The closer a thread gets to discussing 29"ers, the bytchier it gets.

    It's 27.5 now don't ya know, even the guy at 2012 olympics said so...

    Though with events like this who knows:D
  • 08-24-2012
    loamranger
    I cut some gauges on a laser to the diameter of a inflated Pacenti 2.1 and 2.3 650b tyre with a 12mm hole some time ago and tried them out on my XL Chilcotin that I have just built up and they both passed the seat stay joke. The 2.3 just clears with about 1.5mm clearance. I'm thinking of getting a set of 650b's for another bike and might try them out on the Chilcotin.
  • 09-21-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    What is "650"? Have I missed something?

    Wow, apparently you're a quick learner ;):thumbsup:.....and glad to see it!

    http://forums.mtbr.com/knolly/anybod...ke-814503.html

    Now I need to possibly add a Knolly Endorphin to my list of 650B lust for bikes. Needs to climb like a goat in gnarly rock and root infested New England terrain so I have much reading to do :madman: