• 11-23-2012
    Punta Lobos
    650b equals crappy low performance tires for a while. I would wait on this trend for a while. Everyone is jumping ship too fast.
  • 11-23-2012
    aedubber
    lol u got me neg reppd too u noob
  • 11-28-2012
    StiHacka
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Punta Lobos View Post
    650b equals crappy low performance tires for a while. I would wait on this trend for a while. Everyone is jumping ship too fast.

    Depends. Hans Dampf 2.35 SS, Nobby Nic 2.35 SS, Neo Moto 2.3, Ardent 2.25 EXO, Nevegal 2.35 might not be crappy low performance tires for everyone. You can buy those today + a bunch of nice high performance XC tires.
  • 11-28-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Depends. Hans Dampf 2.35 SS, Nobby Nic 2.35 SS, Neo Moto 2.3, Ardent 2.25 EXO, Nevegal 2.35 might not be crappy low performance tires for everyone. You can buy those today + a bunch of nice high performance XC tires.

    Those Nevegals are impossible to ride and will kill you twice, that's on Ridemonkey if you don't believe me.
  • 11-28-2012
    Dusty Bottoms
    I just measured the wheel height on my Endo26:

    Industry Nine XC rim / 26"
    Schwalbe 2.35 Hans Dampf (tall tire, very high volume)

    = 27.25"
  • 11-28-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Punta Lobos View Post
    650b equals crappy low performance tires for a while. I would wait on this trend for a while. Everyone is jumping ship too fast.

    Not sure what you're looking for in tire availability but some of those tires listed above by StiHacka are excellent and that's just a short list of what's available and/or coming very soon. I've got a new set of 650B Nobby Nick SS tires and the things measure almost 28" tall, roll awesome and grip rocks like no body's business. The HD is a terrific all around tire as are the Neo Motos. The Nevegals are a love/hate for many people. A bunch of guys I ride with seems to really like them for the trails we have here in New England. Never tried em myself. Educate yourself before before spreading miss information to those trying to get a handle on this 650B size. Way to many people doing that who either resist change or don't understand how this size will improve on a 26" bike pretty much without the compromises of the 29'er.

    Need more proof have a look at this :p

    The 650b freight train | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
  • 11-28-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    I just measured the wheel height on my Endo26:

    Industry Nine XC rim / 26"
    Schwalbe 2.35 Hans Dampf (tall tire, very high volume)

    = 27.25"

    New NN 650B 2.35" SS (measures 2.3" actually) is 711mm in diameter or a ball hair shy of 28" tall. Love em so far.
  • 11-28-2012
    loamranger
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    New NN 650B 2.35" SS (measures 2.3" actually) is 711mm in diameter or a ball hair shy of 28" tall. Love em so far.

    Hi skidad, I measured my 650b 2.35 HD's at 705mm, suprising that the NN's are bigger.
  • 11-28-2012
    loamranger
  • 11-28-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Hi skidad, I measured my 650b 2.35 HD's at 705mm, suprising that the NN's are bigger.

    Yeah, I was a bit bummed to see the HD measure smaller. I've taken the tape to the NN a number of times to recheck and I still see close to 28". While I loved my Neo Motos these are faster, roll better and stick to rocks better. I'd give the cornering edge to the Neo's though until I set up the NN tubless and lower the pressure to see. HD on the front and NN out back might be the sweet spot.
  • 11-28-2012
    skidad
    Awesome!

    Pacenti should have the 2.4 Mega Moto in production soon also. It's huge from the pics I've seen.
  • 11-29-2012
    Chromagftw
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Depends. Hans Dampf 2.35 SS, Nobby Nic 2.35 SS, Neo Moto 2.3, Ardent 2.25 EXO, Nevegal 2.35 might not be crappy low performance tires for everyone. You can buy those today + a bunch of nice high performance XC tires.

    Kirk will we be expecting to see compete single 650b wheels (not just wheel sets) available on bikelugs soon? I recall a mid December time line.

    My 650b Hans Dampf (2.35") tire just arrived. Its very probably not going to clear the Fox 36 Vanilla currently installed. The 2.25" version has yet to be launched although i'm told before the years end. It will be either this or the 2.3" neo moto if the 2.35" HD fails

    Planned front rim as it stands right now is a Pacenti DL 31 (36H). Welded, eyelets and anodized black finish, something the P35 and Blunt SL didn't have.
  • 11-29-2012
    skidad
    Quote:

    My 650b Hans Dampf (2.35") tire just arrived. Its very probably not going to clear the Fox 36 Vanilla currently installed
    I would be VERY surprised if that didn't clear your fork. The 36 forks have more arch clearance than the 32's from what I read and @ 705mm diameter it's just slightly larger than a 2.35 Nevegal which people are using on the 32 forks (although when new probably rubs the crown at bottom out on the 32...but who gets full travel from a Fox fork?)

    Give it a try and I think you'll see it fits ok. To check crown contact of course you need to remove the spring which you should do to be safe.
  • 11-29-2012
    Chromagftw
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    I would be VERY surprised if that didn't clear your fork. The 36 forks have more arch clearance than the 32's from what I read and @ 705mm diameter it's just slightly larger than a 2.35 Nevegal which people are using on the 32 forks (although when new probably rubs the crown at bottom out on the 32...but who gets full travel from a Fox fork?)

    Give it a try and I think you'll see it fits ok. To check crown contact of course you need to remove the spring which you should do to be safe.

    Thanks for that Skidad, it's reassuring to know. I'll post back with some visuals once I have wheel built and tire mounted.

    Regarding a coil fork and crown clearance - would you feel that with an air fork this is more imperative safety wise? IME even with correct sag dialed in and compression and rebound fully open I have yet to fully compress my coil forks (5-7mm residual). Unlike air forks once bladder is emptied there is "nothing" within the fork leg/stanchion as compared the "material spring" in the coil fork. Thinking aloud here...
  • 11-29-2012
    qbert2000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    Thanks for that Skidad, it's reassuring to know. I'll post back with some visuals once I have wheel built and tire mounted.

    Regarding a coil fork and crown clearance - would you feel that with an air fork this is more imperative safety wise? IME even with correct sag dialed in and compression and rebound fully open I have yet to fully compress my coil forks (5-7mm residual). Unlike air forks once bladder is emptied there is "nothing" within the fork leg/stanchion as compared the "material spring" in the coil fork. Thinking aloud here...

    idk. every fox air sprung fork i've ever owned never reached full travle while riding unless i ran the air so low that it was useless. i think under riding conditions air forks have a harder time bottoming out if set up with proper sag. one of the downsides to an air fork is not reaching full travel. at least as far as i've experienced
  • 11-29-2012
    Deerhill
    Just did a rebuild, my van lowers have never slid all the way up. crown and arch seem to have the same clearance
  • 11-29-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    IME even with correct sag dialed in and compression and rebound fully open I have yet to fully compress my coil forks (5-7mm residual). Unlike air forks once bladder is emptied there is "nothing" within the fork leg/stanchion as compared the "material spring" in the coil fork. Thinking aloud here...

    The coil equivalent to emptying the bladder is undoing the top, above the spring. IMO, if you keep a substantial amount of air in an air fork you would have a similar experience (i.e. not being able to bottom it out).

    That said there are two possible reasons why you can't get that last bit of travel in a coil fork:

    1) Spring coils touch before full compression which would be by design. You could check this by putting the bike on stand, making sure that the stanchion is fully extended and check stanchion length versus the fork travel spec (i.e. a 170mm travel fork might have 177mm of total stanchion).

    IMO, I would prefer a design that had a bit of extra stanchion so I wasn't buggering up my seals on a hard hit. :eek:

    2) Not applying enough force. You could test this by getting a lot fatter and doing a few front-wheel-first landings to see if you can bottom it out. :D

    Another option is using a tie-down and suck it tight. You may need a ratchet-type tie-down to generate enough force because most coil forks have bottom-out bumper which is hard rubber and will take a lot to compress. (The force is linear UNTIL all the spring is compressed and then ramp very hard.) :thumbsup:

    Edit: you may need to purchase a new bottom-out bumper if compress it as far as possible. Good luck!
  • 11-29-2012
    MTBMarkWa
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    2) Not applying enough force. You could test
    Another option is using a tie-down and suck it tight. You may need a ratchet-type tie-down to generate enough force because most coil forks have bottom-out bumper which is hard rubber and will take a lot to compress. (The force is linear UNTIL all the spring is compressed and then ramp very hard.) :thumbsup:

    I dont know that I would test it that way, are you suggesting this with the spring still in the fork? Sounds dangerous if so.

    There are many reasons for not getting full travel, here are a couple more that come to mind.

    Too much oil in the Dampener.
    Fork may have some kind of bottom out resistance feature that is just too hard to over come.
    Spring rate too high.
  • 11-29-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Yeah, whatever. What will the BB height be if I run 26" wheels on the 650Bilcotin?
  • 11-29-2012
    Calhoun
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post

    2) Not applying enough force. You could test this by getting a lot fatter and doing a few front-wheel-first landings to see if you can bottom it out. :D

    Need to see video example of this experiment.
  • 11-29-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Need to see video example of this experiment.

    What's that about curiosity and dead cats? LOL! :crazy:

    Sadly, I've done many front-wheel-first landings but never for the sake of science. I'm just not that dedicated. :thumbsup:

    I have tried the tie-down strap (no ratchet) thing, while checking out the internals of a dampening circuit. (I didn't have a wrench--crescent or other--big enough to take off the spring cap.)

    BTW, I didn't get full compression. :D
  • 11-29-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MTBMarkWa View Post
    I dont know that I would test it that way, are you suggesting this with the spring still in the fork? Sounds dangerous if so.

    Too much oil in the Dampener.

    I hadn't considered too much oil in the dampener side. I guess that could do it, though I would guess that you would blow your fork seals.

    BTW, I was suggesting the tests in #2 with the spring in the fork; but as jokes. I wouldn't suggest that anyone follow any mountain bike related advice if the poster says "use a sledge hammer" or "use a ratchet strap." :D
  • 01-31-2013
    eastshorebiker
    Just measured a kenda nevagal 2.5 x 26 @ 28psi = 682 mm diameter. The wheel is off my Knolly DT with a RS Totem and there is only 20mm clearance between tire and fork crown. A 650b Hans D would only leave 8mm clearance on the average 26" fork.
  • 01-31-2013
    vikb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    you can't try to derail the 650b freight train:rolleyes: people will get their shorts in a knot. . still trying to figure who's begging for 650b, but somebody obviously is.

    Me - but I wouldn't neg rep someone because they didn't want a 650B bike.
  • 01-31-2013
    vikb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by arkon11 View Post
    Yeah I can't see what the purpose of putting 650b tires on a Chili, or any knolly for that matter. They were designed around 26" wheels, so ride them accordingly.

    +1 - agreed - which is why I'm gonna keep riding my 26er until Knolly or someone else comes out with a 650B frame I like that was designed to be 650B from the get go.