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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Now I need to possibly add a Knolly Endorphin to my list of 650B lust for bikes. Needs to climb like a goat in gnarly rock and root infested New England terrain so I have much reading to do
    I told you, these Knollys are mighty tempting!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    I told you, these Knollys are mighty tempting!
    Yeah but what the hell is wrong with us? We both have new bikes and we're already looking at other possibilities

    Would love to try one out and you know at least in New England you're not gonna see one out on the trail very often which I kinda like.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  3. #53
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    glad it worked

  4. #54
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    Seems 10mm makes a difference

    I just fitted a 650b 2.3 TS Schwalbe Hans Dampf/Flow EX/Hope evo pro 2 wheel to the front only on my Chilcotin. The tyre weighed 838g and was fitted with a tube for now. The HD measures 705mm dia when inflated to 26 psi which is only 10mm bigger in diameter compared to the 26" Conti 2.4 Rubber Queen which I am running on the back. Consequently there is a minimal change in bb height and head angle. I was slightly disappointed at first that the difference in diameter was so little. The good thing about it though is that the 650b HD cleared the BOS Idylles without a problem. Should be no problem with the Devilles as well. What I wasn't expecting was the much better roll and grip. Corners really great and much faster and flowy downhill. Seems that 10mm can make a difference.

  5. #55
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    could just be that the HD is a better tire
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    could just be that the HD is a better tire
    It is possible and the only way to verify would be to try out a 26" version of the HD having not had any experience of that tyre before. I wonder, is there somebody out there who has tried both and can say if there is a real improvement with the 650b version?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    I just fitted a 650b 2.3 TS Schwalbe Hans Dampf/Flow EX/Hope evo pro 2 wheel to the front only on my Chilcotin. The tyre weighed 838g and was fitted with a tube for now. The HD measures 705mm dia when inflated to 26 psi which is only 10mm bigger in diameter compared to the 26" Conti 2.4 Rubber Queen which I am running on the back. Consequently there is a minimal change in bb height and head angle. I was slightly disappointed at first that the difference in diameter was so little. The good thing about it though is that the 650b HD cleared the BOS Idylles without a problem. Should be no problem with the Devilles as well. What I wasn't expecting was the much better roll and grip. Corners really great and much faster and flowy downhill. Seems that 10mm can make a difference.
    How much clearance do you have on the rear chainstay with the 2.4 RQ?

    You know where this could be heading again!
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  8. #58
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    [QUOTE=loamranger;9884754The HD measures 705mm dia when inflated to 26 psi which is only 10mm bigger in diameter compared to the 26" Conti 2.4 Rubber Queen which I am running on the back. Seems that 10mm can make a difference. [/QUOTE]

    10mm in diameter, that means only 5mm increase in radius?
    Will that really makes a difference?
    Another conscious mind on this 650b thing
    When trails gets tougher, Just stand up and deliver.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcman View Post
    How much clearance do you have on the rear chainstay with the 2.4 RQ?

    You know where this could be heading again!
    I would need to double check but around 6/7mm I would say.

    If it looks like the 650b HD might fit, then I'm going to try the front on the back, mocking it up using some spacers to convert from 20 to 12. I'll let you know.
    Last edited by loamranger; 11-19-2012 at 06:53 AM.

  10. #60
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    did you measure the BB height?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by cscsw View Post
    did you measure the BB height?
    Might be hard for loamranget to do as I think he is only going to have a front 650B to play with!

    Would be nice to know tho in the slack setting!
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  12. #62
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    The BB would be 1/2" higher for a full conversion and about 1/4" higher for front wheel only.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    The BB would be 1/2" higher for a full conversion and about 1/4" higher for front wheel only.
    I could live with that, if the back WILL fit?
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  14. #64
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    If you have a Chili I would just run a 650B upfront and enjoy most of the benefits.

    If you are looking to buy I would wait for the 650B Chili to come out and not deal with any compromises.
    Safe riding,

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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by cscsw View Post
    did you measure the BB height?
    I'll need to get back to you on that with some measurements. There's only a 5mm difference in wheel radius so the bb will not change that much.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you have a Chili I would just run a 650B upfront and enjoy most of the benefits.

    If you are looking to buy I would wait for the 650B Chili to come out and not deal with any compromises.
    Front only was my main aim, but I am curious to find out if the 650b HD will clear on the back. If it does clear it will be very tight I think. We shall see.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Front only was my main aim, but I am curious to find out if the 650b HD will clear on the back. If it does clear it will be very tight I think. We shall see.
    That's exactly what I plan on doing, but won't have my wheel for a couple more weeks!

    Going to be using a Fox Float 36 RC2 up front, with zero stack Works Comp headset (1 deg).

    Just was very curious also about the rear clearance.

    PS. the HD is a huge volume tire on my Rip9.
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  18. #68
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    Just doing some research and ill be honest i have limited knowledge regarding 650B rims. The chart below was posted by another forum user. It appears that options are limited even having searched the net repeatedly..

    If choosing a 650B rim for the front for heavy AM use, (NOT XC trails) can anyone recommend a strong 650B rim that is 36H with a welded not pinned junction? There have to be more options out there other than whats listed ...

    Can anyone share their experience please?

    Quote Originally Posted by laffeaux View Post

    <table width="100%"><tr bgcolor="#999999"><td>Brand</td><td>Model</td><td>Color</td><td>Rim/Disc</td><td>Width</td><td>Weight</td><td>Spokes</td><td>Issues</td></tr><tr><td>Alex</td><td>XD-Lite</td><td>black, silver</td><td>disc</td><td>24mm</td><td>?</td><td>32, 36</td><td>&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td>Stan's</td><td>ZTR355</td><td>black</td><td>disc</td><td>24.4mm</td><td>385g</td><td>32</td><td>&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td>Sun</td><td>CR-18</td><td>silver</td><td>rim</td><td>22.9mm</td><td>495g</td><td>32, 36</td><td>&nbsp;</td></tr><tr><td>Velocity</td><td>Blunt</td><td>black, silver, white</td><td>disc</td><td>28mm</td><td>459g</td><td>32</td><td>possibly under-sized</td></tr><tr><td>Velocity</td><td>Synergy</td><td>black, silver</td><td>rim</td><td>24mm</td><td>472g</td><td>32, 36</td><td>possibly under-sized</td></tr><tr><td>Weinmann</td><td>ZAC19</td><td>silver</td><td>rim</td><td>23.6mm</td><td>480g</td><td>32</td><td>&nbsp;</td></tr></table>

  19. #69
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    Velocity P35 / Blunt 35 - uber wide
    Pacenti TL28
    Pacenti DL31
    Pacenti CL25
    Stan's ZTR Flow Ex
    Stan's ZTR Arch Ex
    Stan's ZTR Crest
    Enve
    Chinese 650b $160 rims (std., AM)
    DT Swiss M480
    WTB LaserDisc Trail
    Sun Ringle Inferno
    Novatec Diablo
    Novatex FlowTrail

    ...and more. Unlike 12 months ago, there are quite a few rim and tire choices in the stores today. The 650b forum has quite a bit of info if you want to learn more.

  20. #70
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    WTB i23 comes in 650b also

    https://bti-usa.com/public/item/WT2191
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    Just doing some research and ill be honest i have limited knowledge regarding 650B rims. The chart below was posted by another forum user. It appears that options are limited even having searched the net repeatedly..

    If choosing a 650B rim for the front for heavy AM use, (NOT XC trails) can anyone recommend a strong 650B rim that is 36H with a welded not pinned junction? There have to be more options out there other than whats listed ...

    Can anyone share their experience please?
    I'm using Flow EX 650b, 32 hole, around 25mm inside, 28mm outside. Laced to Hope evo pro 2 front weighs 900g. Coming next year are the Syntace 650b rims in different widths, 30, 35 and 40mm. Also the Pacent rims are getting good reviews. So plenty of rim choice for heavy AM use I would say. At this time I would say the choice of tyre for AM is limited to either the Schwalbe HD ( availablle in 2.25 and 2.35 and three types including a DH version) and the Pacenti Neo Motos in 2.35. I'm really liking the 2.35 HD Triple Star (838g).

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Velocity P35 / Blunt 35 - uber wide
    Pacenti TL28
    Pacenti DL31
    Pacenti CL25
    Stan's ZTR Flow Ex
    Stan's ZTR Arch Ex
    Stan's ZTR Crest
    Enve
    Chinese 650b $160 rims (std., AM)
    DT Swiss M480
    WTB LaserDisc Trail
    Sun Ringle Inferno
    Novatec Diablo
    Novatex FlowTrail

    ...and more. Unlike 12 months ago, there are quite a few rim and tire choices in the stores today. The 650b forum has quite a bit of info if you want to learn more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    WTB i23 comes in 650b also

    https://bti-usa.com/public/item/WT2191
    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    I'm using Flow EX 650b, 32 hole, around 25mm inside, 28mm outside. Laced to Hope evo pro 2 front weighs 900g. Coming next year are the Syntace 650b rims in different widths, 30, 35 and 40mm. Also the Pacent rims are getting good reviews. So plenty of rim choice for heavy AM use I would say. At this time I would say the choice of tyre for AM is limited to either the Schwalbe HD ( availablle in 2.25 and 2.35 and three types including a DH version) and the Pacenti Neo Motos in 2.35. I'm really liking the 2.35 HD Triple Star (838g).
    Thanks fellas. 650B forum is fairly hodge podge ATM but will relook there. Wheelset combo will be a 27.5" up front and of course 26" rear

    26" Rear Wheel (current):

    Mavic 721, CK Hub w/stainless steel cassette body, DT champion spokes & brass nips, Conti TK 2.2" black chili

    27.5" Front Wheel (Proposed)

    Velocity P35, Hadley hub, DT competition spokes & brass nips, not entirely sure about tire clearance so will do more research regarding this. Front wheel will be on a 2011 Fox 160mm Van R2C Coil. Tires of similar thickness across and weight would be ideal. Comboing a TK in back and a HD up front felt decent enough when I tested on 26" rims.

    In the slack position I am already having pedals strikes with my 175mm cranks despite a Conti TK 2.4 up front and a Cane Creek external lower headset cup. Once I am done building the 27.5" front wheel I will revert back to the steeper frame setting and see how it feels and post back.

    Appreciate the help once again!

    PS. Still hoping for a new Delirium.

    The SC Podium we were experimenting feels somewhat long for my usage intentions despite the -ve angleset cups. Great going down however.
    Last edited by Chromagftw; 11-22-2012 at 06:31 PM.

  23. #73
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    650b rear will not work!

    No one read eadubber's first post. Knolly has a pivot on the chain stay. If you hit a bump, the tire will hit the chain stay. It has nothing to do with fitting the tire on the bike stand. Try moving the chain stay all the way in on your Delirium-T and go for a ride - you will end up with slicks! I'll bet ya that is why Noel dumped that feature.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    What is "650"? Have I missed something?

    It's a new wheel size that's going to triple bike sales at Target, Walmart, and Sports Chalet.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoFRdr View Post
    No one read eadubber's first post. Knolly has a pivot on the chain stay. If you hit a bump, the tire will hit the chain stay. It has nothing to do with fitting the tire on the bike stand. Try moving the chain stay all the way in on your Delirium-T and go for a ride - you will end up with slicks! I'll bet ya that is why Noel dumped that feature.
    Yes, agreed. This actually is for a FRONT wheel only application. I edited my earlier post to make it clearer. Thks

  26. #76
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    650b equals crappy low performance tires for a while. I would wait on this trend for a while. Everyone is jumping ship too fast.

  27. #77
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    lol u got me neg reppd too u noob

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punta Lobos View Post
    650b equals crappy low performance tires for a while. I would wait on this trend for a while. Everyone is jumping ship too fast.
    Depends. Hans Dampf 2.35 SS, Nobby Nic 2.35 SS, Neo Moto 2.3, Ardent 2.25 EXO, Nevegal 2.35 might not be crappy low performance tires for everyone. You can buy those today + a bunch of nice high performance XC tires.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Depends. Hans Dampf 2.35 SS, Nobby Nic 2.35 SS, Neo Moto 2.3, Ardent 2.25 EXO, Nevegal 2.35 might not be crappy low performance tires for everyone. You can buy those today + a bunch of nice high performance XC tires.
    Those Nevegals are impossible to ride and will kill you twice, that's on Ridemonkey if you don't believe me.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  30. #80
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    I just measured the wheel height on my Endo26:

    Industry Nine XC rim / 26"
    Schwalbe 2.35 Hans Dampf (tall tire, very high volume)

    = 27.25"
    Global Director of Sales: Knolly Bikes

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Punta Lobos View Post
    650b equals crappy low performance tires for a while. I would wait on this trend for a while. Everyone is jumping ship too fast.
    Not sure what you're looking for in tire availability but some of those tires listed above by StiHacka are excellent and that's just a short list of what's available and/or coming very soon. I've got a new set of 650B Nobby Nick SS tires and the things measure almost 28" tall, roll awesome and grip rocks like no body's business. The HD is a terrific all around tire as are the Neo Motos. The Nevegals are a love/hate for many people. A bunch of guys I ride with seems to really like them for the trails we have here in New England. Never tried em myself. Educate yourself before before spreading miss information to those trying to get a handle on this 650B size. Way to many people doing that who either resist change or don't understand how this size will improve on a 26" bike pretty much without the compromises of the 29'er.

    Need more proof have a look at this

    The 650b freight train | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms View Post
    I just measured the wheel height on my Endo26:

    Industry Nine XC rim / 26"
    Schwalbe 2.35 Hans Dampf (tall tire, very high volume)

    = 27.25"
    New NN 650B 2.35" SS (measures 2.3" actually) is 711mm in diameter or a ball hair shy of 28" tall. Love em so far.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    New NN 650B 2.35" SS (measures 2.3" actually) is 711mm in diameter or a ball hair shy of 28" tall. Love em so far.
    Hi skidad, I measured my 650b 2.35 HD's at 705mm, suprising that the NN's are bigger.

  34. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by loamranger View Post
    Hi skidad, I measured my 650b 2.35 HD's at 705mm, suprising that the NN's are bigger.
    Yeah, I was a bit bummed to see the HD measure smaller. I've taken the tape to the NN a number of times to recheck and I still see close to 28". While I loved my Neo Motos these are faster, roll better and stick to rocks better. I'd give the cornering edge to the Neo's though until I set up the NN tubless and lower the pressure to see. HD on the front and NN out back might be the sweet spot.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  36. #86
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    Awesome!

    Pacenti should have the 2.4 Mega Moto in production soon also. It's huge from the pics I've seen.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Depends. Hans Dampf 2.35 SS, Nobby Nic 2.35 SS, Neo Moto 2.3, Ardent 2.25 EXO, Nevegal 2.35 might not be crappy low performance tires for everyone. You can buy those today + a bunch of nice high performance XC tires.
    Kirk will we be expecting to see compete single 650b wheels (not just wheel sets) available on bikelugs soon? I recall a mid December time line.

    My 650b Hans Dampf (2.35") tire just arrived. Its very probably not going to clear the Fox 36 Vanilla currently installed. The 2.25" version has yet to be launched although i'm told before the years end. It will be either this or the 2.3" neo moto if the 2.35" HD fails

    Planned front rim as it stands right now is a Pacenti DL 31 (36H). Welded, eyelets and anodized black finish, something the P35 and Blunt SL didn't have.

  38. #88
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    My 650b Hans Dampf (2.35") tire just arrived. Its very probably not going to clear the Fox 36 Vanilla currently installed
    I would be VERY surprised if that didn't clear your fork. The 36 forks have more arch clearance than the 32's from what I read and @ 705mm diameter it's just slightly larger than a 2.35 Nevegal which people are using on the 32 forks (although when new probably rubs the crown at bottom out on the 32...but who gets full travel from a Fox fork?)

    Give it a try and I think you'll see it fits ok. To check crown contact of course you need to remove the spring which you should do to be safe.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    I would be VERY surprised if that didn't clear your fork. The 36 forks have more arch clearance than the 32's from what I read and @ 705mm diameter it's just slightly larger than a 2.35 Nevegal which people are using on the 32 forks (although when new probably rubs the crown at bottom out on the 32...but who gets full travel from a Fox fork?)

    Give it a try and I think you'll see it fits ok. To check crown contact of course you need to remove the spring which you should do to be safe.
    Thanks for that Skidad, it's reassuring to know. I'll post back with some visuals once I have wheel built and tire mounted.

    Regarding a coil fork and crown clearance - would you feel that with an air fork this is more imperative safety wise? IME even with correct sag dialed in and compression and rebound fully open I have yet to fully compress my coil forks (5-7mm residual). Unlike air forks once bladder is emptied there is "nothing" within the fork leg/stanchion as compared the "material spring" in the coil fork. Thinking aloud here...

  40. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    Thanks for that Skidad, it's reassuring to know. I'll post back with some visuals once I have wheel built and tire mounted.

    Regarding a coil fork and crown clearance - would you feel that with an air fork this is more imperative safety wise? IME even with correct sag dialed in and compression and rebound fully open I have yet to fully compress my coil forks (5-7mm residual). Unlike air forks once bladder is emptied there is "nothing" within the fork leg/stanchion as compared the "material spring" in the coil fork. Thinking aloud here...
    idk. every fox air sprung fork i've ever owned never reached full travle while riding unless i ran the air so low that it was useless. i think under riding conditions air forks have a harder time bottoming out if set up with proper sag. one of the downsides to an air fork is not reaching full travel. at least as far as i've experienced

  41. #91
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    Just did a rebuild, my van lowers have never slid all the way up. crown and arch seem to have the same clearance
    ...

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    IME even with correct sag dialed in and compression and rebound fully open I have yet to fully compress my coil forks (5-7mm residual). Unlike air forks once bladder is emptied there is "nothing" within the fork leg/stanchion as compared the "material spring" in the coil fork. Thinking aloud here...
    The coil equivalent to emptying the bladder is undoing the top, above the spring. IMO, if you keep a substantial amount of air in an air fork you would have a similar experience (i.e. not being able to bottom it out).

    That said there are two possible reasons why you can't get that last bit of travel in a coil fork:

    1) Spring coils touch before full compression which would be by design. You could check this by putting the bike on stand, making sure that the stanchion is fully extended and check stanchion length versus the fork travel spec (i.e. a 170mm travel fork might have 177mm of total stanchion).

    IMO, I would prefer a design that had a bit of extra stanchion so I wasn't buggering up my seals on a hard hit.

    2) Not applying enough force. You could test this by getting a lot fatter and doing a few front-wheel-first landings to see if you can bottom it out.

    Another option is using a tie-down and suck it tight. You may need a ratchet-type tie-down to generate enough force because most coil forks have bottom-out bumper which is hard rubber and will take a lot to compress. (The force is linear UNTIL all the spring is compressed and then ramp very hard.)

    Edit: you may need to purchase a new bottom-out bumper if compress it as far as possible. Good luck!
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    2) Not applying enough force. You could test
    Another option is using a tie-down and suck it tight. You may need a ratchet-type tie-down to generate enough force because most coil forks have bottom-out bumper which is hard rubber and will take a lot to compress. (The force is linear UNTIL all the spring is compressed and then ramp very hard.)
    I dont know that I would test it that way, are you suggesting this with the spring still in the fork? Sounds dangerous if so.

    There are many reasons for not getting full travel, here are a couple more that come to mind.

    Too much oil in the Dampener.
    Fork may have some kind of bottom out resistance feature that is just too hard to over come.
    Spring rate too high.

  44. #94
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    Yeah, whatever. What will the BB height be if I run 26" wheels on the 650Bilcotin?
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSC View Post

    2) Not applying enough force. You could test this by getting a lot fatter and doing a few front-wheel-first landings to see if you can bottom it out.
    Need to see video example of this experiment.
    "Mi amor Nuevo Miércoles!"

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  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calhoun View Post
    Need to see video example of this experiment.
    What's that about curiosity and dead cats? LOL!

    Sadly, I've done many front-wheel-first landings but never for the sake of science. I'm just not that dedicated.

    I have tried the tie-down strap (no ratchet) thing, while checking out the internals of a dampening circuit. (I didn't have a wrench--crescent or other--big enough to take off the spring cap.)

    BTW, I didn't get full compression.
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBMarkWa View Post
    I dont know that I would test it that way, are you suggesting this with the spring still in the fork? Sounds dangerous if so.

    Too much oil in the Dampener.
    I hadn't considered too much oil in the dampener side. I guess that could do it, though I would guess that you would blow your fork seals.

    BTW, I was suggesting the tests in #2 with the spring in the fork; but as jokes. I wouldn't suggest that anyone follow any mountain bike related advice if the poster says "use a sledge hammer" or "use a ratchet strap."
    "sounds like you need to find a better mechanic..." -- Calhoun

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    Just measured a kenda nevagal 2.5 x 26 @ 28psi = 682 mm diameter. The wheel is off my Knolly DT with a RS Totem and there is only 20mm clearance between tire and fork crown. A 650b Hans D would only leave 8mm clearance on the average 26" fork.

  49. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000 View Post
    you can't try to derail the 650b freight train people will get their shorts in a knot. . still trying to figure who's begging for 650b, but somebody obviously is.
    Me - but I wouldn't neg rep someone because they didn't want a 650B bike.
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  50. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkon11 View Post
    Yeah I can't see what the purpose of putting 650b tires on a Chili, or any knolly for that matter. They were designed around 26" wheels, so ride them accordingly.
    +1 - agreed - which is why I'm gonna keep riding my 26er until Knolly or someone else comes out with a 650B frame I like that was designed to be 650B from the get go.
    Safe riding,

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