• 12-20-2012
    loolilon
    170mm or 160mm fork for my chilcotin??
    next week im about to build a chilcotin!!

    i'm aggressive AM rider that likes to rip tracks but i will climb all my way up!!
    so 160 vs 170???

    please help me here....

    thanks
  • 12-20-2012
    Calhoun
    well.... what forks are you considering? what forks have you had?
  • 12-20-2012
    mrniceguy42
    Obviously if you bought this bike, descending is definitely important. That being said, if uphill is equally important, go with a 160. If it is not quite as important, go 170.

    With THAT being said, I think the chili will climb awesome with both sizes...

    FWIW, I run it at 160 because I like to climb alot. I have not tried it at 170 but I will crank up my lyrik to 170 when bike park season opens.
  • 12-20-2012
    rscecil007
    160 with external lower headset cup = 170 with inset lower headset cup

    Both options keep the stock geo. I believe most Fox/RS/Marz forks all use similar AtC numbers. X-fusion Vengence is 10mm higher though, so that could slack it out an extra 0.5 degrees off stock.
  • 12-20-2012
    loolilon
    Lyrik RC2 DH Solo Air,fox float fit, x fusion VENGEANCE HLR
    those are the main three options
  • 12-20-2012
    loolilon
    mayby the 2013 Lyrik RC2 DH
  • 12-20-2012
    mayha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by loolilon View Post
    those are the main three options

    I have the 170 LYRIK RC2DH with an EXTERNAL headset and it ROCKS!!! YUP 65.5 head angle...This bike is pure magic in every category. I've taken it off a 20 foot drop and climbed the steepest technical climbs around. No front end wandering even in the slack mode which is where I keep it 100% of the time. Enjoy the ride of your life!!!!
  • 12-20-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    160 with external lower headset cup = 170 with inset lower headset cup

    Both options keep the stock geo. I believe most Fox/RS/Marz forks all use similar AtC numbers. X-fusion Vengence is 10mm higher though, so that could slack it out an extra 0.5 degrees off stock.

    ^^^^^ This. I run my Lyrik at 170 with an internal cup. If I were to go to an X-Fusion, I would run it at 160 with an internal cup to keep the stock geometry, and since they are internally adjustable, I would still have the option to run 170 as well.

    As mayha stated, the front does not wander on this bike, it's crazy.
  • 12-20-2012
    invol2ver
    marzocchi 55 evo ti no question. if you get the older 160 or the new 170 they are pure awesome. coil sprung open bath the way it should be
  • 12-20-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by invol2ver View Post
    marzocchi 55 evo ti no question. if you get the older 160 or the new 170 they are pure awesome. coil sprung open bath the way it should be

    Unless you run an AVY cartridge :D Custom tuned open bath that blows the Marzocchi away.
  • 12-20-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Unless you run an AVY cartridge :D Custom tuned open bath that blows the Marzocchi away.

    It would be 50% more expensive, is that what you meant?
  • 12-20-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    It would be 50% more expensive, is that what you meant?

    Performance isn't free.
  • 12-20-2012
    loolilon
    still the earth's is not flat....
    what about climbing ability?
  • 12-20-2012
    mykel
    ...or buy a used fork and give Craig a call; custom fork for less than the price of new...

    michael
  • 12-20-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mykel View Post
    ...or buy a used fork and give Craig a call; custom fork for less than the price of new...

    michael

    That's an idea. I might even part w/ my near-perfect, 160mm, tapered, rc2 coil lyrik for a reasonable amount, since my 55 is giving me $2,000 worth of performance already.
  • 12-20-2012
    EMR
    I'm kinda in the same boat as the op, but I've been running my chil with a 160 lyrik rc. I want/need to up grade the fork due to the lack of any high speed adjustment. I'm thinking avy (I know they don't have an external adjustment, but at least it will be more refined than the stock), but not sure if I should go 170 or 160. So how does the 170 climb, and do you notice the added bb height. I feel pretty dialed in the steep mode with the 160. Is the avy 160 cart adjustable to 170 if I decide to change in the future?

    I've also been seriously looking at the x fusion, but the a2c is bugging me out mentally.
  • 12-20-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EMR View Post
    I'm kinda in the same boat as the op, but I've been running my chil with a 160 lyrik rc. I want/need to up grade the fork due to the lack of any high speed adjustment. I'm thinking avy (I know they don't have an external adjustment, but at least it will be more refined than the stock), but not sure if I should go 170 or 160. So how does the 170 climb, and do you notice the added bb height. I feel pretty dialed in the steep mode with the 160. Is the avy 160 cart adjustable to 170 if I decide to change in the future?

    I've also been seriously looking at the x fusion, but the a2c is bugging me out mentally.

    The 170 with an internal cup maintains the stock geometry of a 160 with an external cup. I find the 170 to be a bit flexier though. I find the bike climbs just fine, and even at 170 is better than my first gen Endo at 160.

    As for your fork, I highly recommend calling Craig at Avy (literally got off the phone with him 30 minutes ago) and he will tell you why you don't need, or should want, external high speed compression. The Avy cartridge is worlds better than any stock damper out there, simply because it is custom tuned to you, your terrain, and riding style. If you are interested in this, DO NOT order without talking to Craig first. The more info you can give him the better the product will be.

    Craig also mentioned business is really ramping up, so you if you are serious about it, his wait times are probably lowest they will be for a while.
  • 12-20-2012
    tiSS'er
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    That's an idea. I might even part w/ my near-perfect, 160mm, tapered, rc2 coil lyrik for a reasonable amount, since my 55 is giving me $2,000 worth of performance already.

    Not nearly close to the $7000 in performance I gained from my Avy'd Lyrik.

    Craig hinted he may design a 55 cartridge. :thumbsup:
  • 12-20-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Not nearly close to the $7000 in performance I gained from my Avy'd Lyrik.

    Craig hinted he may design a 55 cartridge. :thumbsup:

    I guess I'd be insane to take $500 for the Lyrik, but that's a 90% discount in your world!
  • 12-20-2012
    invol2ver
    the avy cart is not needed for the zoke. the stock damper is fine if you have the correct spring for your weight
  • 12-20-2012
    mayha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by loolilon View Post
    still the earth's is not flat....
    what about climbing ability?

    I forgot to mention (no I didn't) mine is at 170 with an external headset in slack mode...No wandering and insane traction. Climb anything you want. Seriously.
  • 12-20-2012
    bubba13
    My Chili is set up with a 160 Float with external cup. I tried it with a 180 Float and external cup. With the 180, climbing was not a problem. However it was more difficult to keep the front of the bike weighted in corners.

    Like stated above, I would stick with 160 tapered/external cup or 170 straight/internal cup to keep the balance.
  • 12-20-2012
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tiSS'er View Post
    Not nearly close to the $7000 in performance I gained from my Avy'd Lyrik.

    *******Craig hinted he may design a 55 cartridge. :thumbsup*******:




    oh, please, please, pleeease, let that be true!!!
  • 12-20-2012
    nhodge
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by invol2ver View Post
    the avy cart is not needed for the zoke. the stock damper is fine if you have the correct spring for your weight

    i've never heard that the 55 RC3 ti comes w/ anything but one spring, no options. is that in fact false?
  • 12-20-2012
    invol2ver
    it does but there are 3 different springs. my 888 came with 2. i believe they are speced with a medium which works for most riders
  • 12-20-2012
    rscecil007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by invol2ver View Post
    it does but there are 3 different springs. my 888 came with 2. i believe they are speced with a medium which works for most riders

    Negative Ghostrider. The 55 RC3 Ti comes with only 1 spring, medium weight, which works for most people. A few shots of air assist will help if it's not. I was told by Marz they did make a lighter one for special order for you skinny bastards. :p

    Some of you know how much of a fan I am of Avy. Chili's got a Avy'd Van RC, and I've got another Van RC sitting on my workbench to send to him for the Podium. I wanted to do a Lyrik 170 coil (Craig's recommendation for me) with Avy cart, but I could not find a used Lyrik with a full 1 1/8th steer tube that was a) not beat to hell, or b) a good price.

    I finally gave up and went for the 55 RC3, which I felt was my next best option. I've yet to hear of anyone say anything negative about this fork, except that it weighs more than an air fork. I am extremely stoked for mine to arrive.

    And Craig did tell me he was working on a cart for the 55 anyway, so I'm good now and later when he gets it done.:thumbsup: He did say he needs one or two to pull apart and get measurements, if anyone has one they can drop by his shop or is wiling to send to him.
  • 12-20-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    And Craig did tell me he was working on a cart for the 55 anyway, so I'm good now and later when he gets it done.:thumbsup: He did say he needs one or two to pull apart and get measurements, if anyone has one they can drop by his shop or is wiling to send to him.

    And you bastards can thank me for that (or Marzocchi, depending on how you look at it)! :ciappa:

    I sent this email to Craig on Sept. 13th, a few hours after he had explained why he was going to stick with the 66 line and not worry about the 55 line.

    Quote:

    Craig,

    It was nice talking with you. I learn a lot from our conversations.

    Just an FYI: for 2013, Marz dropped the 66 line and are keeping only the 55 line in that size range. I called their tech line and a tech said that they might bring back the 66 in 2014 but isn’t sure.

    Hope this helps!

    tyson

    Tenneco Marzocchi Suspension - 2013 forks
  • 12-20-2012
    rscecil007
    Fine, I'll send you a 6 pack when I get mine. :D:D:D
  • 12-20-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Fine, I'll send you a 6 pack when I get mine. :D:D:D

    Keep the 6er and take me riding when/if I hit your area or you come to WY or UT. That way, you will have something to drink while waiting for me. :D
  • 12-20-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    And you bastards can thank me for that (or Marzocchi, depending on how you look at it)! :ciappa:

    I sent this email to Craig on Sept. 13th, a few hours after he had explained why he was going to stick with the 66 line and not worry about the 55 line.

    Can you engage that ocd and explain what the stock cartridge is not giving you?

    I'll go first. I can't think of anything.
  • 12-21-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Can you engage that ocd and explain what the stock cartridge is not giving you?

    I'll go first. I can't think of anything.

    That's OCD, not PhD. I think you have two confused. :D

    I can say my Avy'd 66 is the best riding fork I've had; BUT I've never owned a TOL Marz fork so I can't give an apples to apples comparison. HOWEVER, I can give you some good reasons to go with Avy:

    -- Buying a mid-level or low-level fork for a great price and making it TOL for less money than the TOL NIB stock fork is smart money.

    -- I gutted a NIB 2012 Marz 66RC (lower-end) earlier this year and Avy'd it. Craig's components are more solid. I'm hoping this translates into more durability and less maintenance but I will never really know how the original components would have held up.

    -- Craig customizes the HSC & HSR for your riding. You get those two settings dialed by an expert; and, if you're OCD like me, the fact they're removed is a plus. Now I've stopped f#@k'n them up. That said, Avy's LSC & LSR are still enough to completely change how your fork feels (even at high speeds).

    My recommendations:

    1) If you are interested in the engineering differences and what makes one fork better than another I would suggest asking Craig. He will obliviously prefer his components, but the dude has the equivalent of a post-doc in suspension design. He will give you a knowledge dump that will spin your head and make it hurt; seriously!

    2) If you're happy, don't ride an Avy'd fork. And, you probably don't want to touch the shocks either, because they will put "I wonder" thoughts in your head.

    “When there is no desire, all things are at peace.” -- Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

    :thumbsup:
  • 12-21-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post

    “When there is no desire, all things are at peace.” -- Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

    :thumbsup:

    Well, I have ridden my, stock, 55 RC3 EVO Ti for more than a year, 5-6 times per week :).
  • 12-21-2012
    Dude!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mrwhlr View Post
    Well, I have ridden my, stock, 55 RC3 EVO Ti for more than a year, 5-6 times per week :).

    I understand TSC point...Craig is a suspension guru and dial the goods in for performance.

    I also agree with Mrwhlr - Marz is pretty darn good out of the box. I have a Marz 66, which I did get an AVY cart for and didn't notice a ton of difference.

    I have Marz 888 for the Podium and many folks state you have to install the correct spring size. With the correct spring size, I still needed some adjustments - a bit more mid-stroke support. I was able to send it to Ronnie Dilan (who use to work at Marz and now its DVO) and he dialed me - removed the air adjuster, added oil in its replacement, adjusted the shimstack. It feels great.
  • 12-21-2012
    Mrwhlr
    Pawed through that site. Two thing I'd like to see...

    1) Kit spring preload adjuster for the Lyrik.

    2) Push button air bleed ports for cartridges/top caps. Releasing built up pressure in most forks is a PITA, but absolutely necessary.
  • 12-21-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    ...And Craig did tell me he was working on a cart for the 55 anyway, so I'm good now and later when he gets it done.:thumbsup: He did say he needs one or two to pull apart and get measurements, if anyone has one they can drop by his shop or is wiling to send to him.

    I just volunteered my 2010 Marzocchi 55 Micro Air Ti Fork (purchase for $413.82 in 2011) for Craig to analyze. It would be killer to turn it into a 2013 Avy'd Marz 55 TOL fork for an additional ~$450.

    Of course that means I would need to buy a different fork for my loaner bike. I should really take Lao Tzu's advice. It would save me a lot of money. :madman:

    BTW, Craig needs more 55 forks to analyze. He's just going to pull them apart and measure them. You'll receive them back a week or two after he gets it.
  • 12-21-2012
    rscecil007
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TSC View Post
    I just volunteered my 2010 Marzocchi 55 Micro Air Ti Fork (purchase for $413.82 in 2011) for Craig to analyze. It would be killer to turn it into a 2013 Avy'd Marz 55 TOL fork for an additional ~$450.

    Of course that means I would need to buy a different fork for my loaner bike. I should really take Lao Tzu's advice. It would save me a lot of money. :madman:

    BTW, Craig needs more 55 forks to analyze. He's just going to pull them apart and measure them. You'll receive them back a week or two after he gets it.

    If you talk to him again make sure and tell him the 2011's are 170mm and the 2010/2011's are 160mm, not sure if he knows that, and I forgot to mention it to him.

    I'd send him my 170mm that's coming, but I'm WAY to anxious to have a good feeling fork on my bike.
  • 12-21-2012
    TSC
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    If you talk to him again make sure and tell him the 2011's are 170mm and the 2010/2011's are 160mm, not sure if he knows that, and I forgot to mention it to him.

    I'd send him my 170mm that's coming, but I'm WAY to anxious to have a good feeling fork on my bike.

    I did mention that fact in our conversation. I said something to the effect: "I don't know if it matters but my 55 is a 160mm. I know there are 170mm 55s too; and there might even be 150mm 55s." Craig said he was aware of the different sizes and also threw in the fact that Marz tends to change other things on their forks constantly (he said that the 888 has eight or more versions) and that is one of the reasons he needs to analyze so many forks.

    I can understand the desire to ride. Fortunately, I have my desire to mountain bike somewhat sated by 9 degree high temps, several feet of snow, skiing and other winter recreation.