Jamis XCT 4: BEWARE of Jamis Carbon Technology!!!
Well, the nearly six month long saga of my Jamis XCT 4 has finally come to an end. Here is the happy end result:
Let me take you through what happened. I ordered the bike from an online retailer. It was a previous model year closeout. This was the first chainstay after the bike was less than one hour old, ridden around the block and over a couple curbs. Clearly a manufacturing/design issue. Since the bike was brand new the retailer replaced it with a completely new bike.
Second chainstay, one week old, bonded bushing broke loose. Another manufacturing/design issue. There is no aluminum dropout plate there, just carbon fiber and epoxy with a wimpy aluminum bushing.
Third chainstay, maybe six rides, no big crash
Fourth chainstay, three rides, no crashes, in the exact same spot as the first. Perhaps there is a problem there?
There are a couple more things I would like to point out:
- there was no dropout plate on the chainstays, only carbon with the very wimpy bushing like the one that fell out above. The axle on every chainstay was slowly digging into the carbon. Each time I rode the bike I had to tighten the thru-axle about 1/16 - 1/8 turn. All of the chainstays broke before it was a real problem, but if they had lasted it would have probably been an issue not too far down the road.
- all these chainstay breaks occurred within 4 months, during the winter. During that time I spent a lot of my riding time on my fat bike, so this bike was not even used that much during the 4 months.
- I weigh under 170 and don't ride that hard. The frame I replaced this with is a Yeti ASR-5 with a carbon rear triangle. I've put far more rides on that frame and ridden it harder than all of the rides on the four Jamis chainstays combined without a single problem.
- The online retailer worked with me and Jamis to find a solution to the problem but the only thing Jamis was willing to do was replace the chainstay over and over. Jamis claims there is no issue with the chainstay. The warranty is two years and I think Jamis was going to just replace the chainstay until the warranty ran out, then I would be screwed. Each time it broke the bike was out of commission for two weeks of riding.
- As this saga was going on, I posted most of the information in another thread and never received an email, pm, or any other contact with an offer to help. I never did contact Jamis directly, that's the retailer's job and they were on the case.
- In the end the online retailer was the one to come through BIG TIME for me. I would love to say who it was, but I don't want to drag their name into this. They had me destroy the frame, then credited me a very fair amount of money to use at their store. So, I'm not writing this out of anger or to say Jamis does not know how to build bikes. I have friends that ride Jamis and they have not had any major issues. I am writing this to warn people about Jamis carbon technology. At least when this bike was built the chainstays were clearly not designed well. Anyone considering Jamis carbon should do some homework and see if they have changed anything since then.
FWIW, Jamis has redesigned their frame and swingarms (swingarms 30% bigger) since your late model closeout frame. The new design is holding up great!
Re: Jamis XCT 4: BEWARE of Jamis Carbon Technology!!!
Major bummer dude. glad you had a fat bike the whole time and a ASR 5 now.
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Sorry about your luck. Its pretty easy to figure out what online retailer you are talking about and there customer service is top notch. I bought a Jamis bike and Jamis frame from them and they have had warranty claims that went flawless on them. Great site, I just wish they had deals on other brands like they do on Jamis.
On a side note, I also have two Jamis road bikes (one for me, one for my wife) purchased at a shop I was working at when i got them. Knock on wood, but both have carbon seat stays and have been flawless so far. I think the (ongoing) frame problems are on the MTB side.
I saw that somewhere myself, in an ad or article. 30% is a lot when you are talking about stiffness. I'm no engineer, but a 30% increase in size/diameter probably doubles or triples the stiffness and strength of a tube.
Originally Posted by apat13
Based on where on the chainstay the problem occurred, of the four breaks only one (the crack in the middle of the chainstay) could even have possibly been my fault. Obviously the new rear triangle "fix" acknowledges they had an issue that needed to be dealt with, so the big question for me remains why was Jamis going to ignore my problem? As I stated above, sending me chainstay after chainstay until my two year warranty ran out was not an acceptable solution.
Anyway, not looking to drag this out any more than needed to make people aware and also let people know that things don't always work out well with Jamis' customer service. If you read my story and agree there was a design/manufacturing issue with the chainstay, then the only thing you can conclude is, Jamis does not stand behind their product in every case.
If the retailer had not credited me a significant amount of store credit it would have been a major bummer. Losing the money would have sucked, but having Jamis shaft me would really have been what set me off.
Originally Posted by ehigh
Whats disappointing to me is not just the bad customer service you received, But the fact that they have had constant chainstay issues since 2008! To me, that shows that the are not learning anything from failed designs and continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. The stopped making the BAM for a year(2011) and brought it back(in 2012) only to have the exact same issues! Its insane that they keep making the same mistakes over and over.
Originally Posted by smithcreek
Re: Jamis XCT 4: BEWARE of Jamis Carbon Technology!!!
Some things never change.. I bought and then sold a 2008 Bam frame before using it due to chainstay issues.
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Originally Posted by Sheepo5669
The interesting thing to me is that every other thread where someone has a problem there is a Jamis rep that responds instantly. Well, how about it? I'd like to see someone from Jamis come on this thread and tell me how at least 3 of those 4 cracks were not a design or manufacturing problem. I'm interested in an explanation of how those two chainstays that broke on the TOP near the end could possibly be caused by the user.
Originally Posted by bigkat273
We will see soon enough. Carbon XCR on the way and I am much heavier at 225 lbs. Travel is 4" and warranty is 5 years for FS travel bikes under 5".
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