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  1. #1
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    Medium 2004 IH for a 5'9" rider - too big or okay?

    So a new 2004 Hollowpoint popped up for sale and once again I'm very tempted.

    The seller informed me that it has a 23.5" top tube and that he is 6 feet tall and uses a 100mm stem.

    Think this frame would work for me? I'm leaning towards a yes since I want to use it as my trail bike/epic ride/24 hour race type frame. It's right in my budget, looks to be in great shape ( a true 2004 frame), and I really want to try a dw-link frame.

    Should I pull the trigger?

    Any other 5'10" 5'9" guys and gals riding 2004 Medium Hollowpoints?

  2. #2
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    Yup, I'm about 5'9". (I'll have to look it up at home. I've got it in metric and I can never remember it). I wanted the longish TT to give a similar setup to my previous bike. The medium still has heaps of top tube clearance for me. I don't think there were any smalls left here in Oz when I got mine, so I couldn't try one out, but I think it might have been OK as well, as it still has a longish TT for a nominally 17" frame. The medium also gives me a bit more space in the frame for a small water bottle.

    It certainly has been a great trail ride bike. I rode mine in a 24 hour race in a 6 man team last weekend and I found that the bike shone in all sections apart from tight switchbacks. Not sure why I had trouble getting around them. I cranked the fork down to 95mm or 100mm and that seemed to help a bit, but it might have been a lack of confidence/technique on my part.

    I reckon give it a go, CTRider (and change your name to HPrider?)

    Steve

  3. #3
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    thanks for the reply Slaw - just curious but what length stem are you running and how is your HP built up? Did you buy a complete bike?

  4. #4
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    I bought the complete bike, so stem is 100mm. It works out to be about the same reach as my old bike which has an old school 135 or 150mm stem. I prefer the long stretched out positioning as I'm more of an XC rider than not. The bikes do feel different though - I find it hard to pinpoint how. I've moved the spacers so that I have one below the stem and 2 above it. I don't think I'll cut the stem, the extra weight doesn't bother me and it would be easier to sell either the fork or the bike if I so decide down the track. I think the biggest difference is the BB height as it's an inch and a half or 2 inches higher.

    Can you compare the measurements of your current ride to the HP?

    Steve

  5. #5
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    My old frame had a 22.75" top tube and it felt a little tight for long riding.

    Man - I'm worried that the tt will be too long by about a half an inch with the Medium - 19" frame.

  6. #6
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    So the difference in TT length is .75". If you use a stem that much shorter than your current stem, then the reach should be the same. If you want a longer cockpit, then adjust the stem accordingly. That's the theory. Not sure what would be the difference in handling between the 2 sizes. Perhaps it depends on your riding style as well. You are getting more advice to go with the smaller frame on the other thread. I've always had a little niggle wondering if I'd be better off on a small. However, I feel that I've been doing OK on the medium this far.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTRider
    Any other 5'10" 5'9" guys and gals riding 2004 Medium Hollowpoints?
    Yeah, I'm 5'10" and I'm riding a 2004 (19") Medium Hollowpoint Expert. When I first started riding it, I felt a bit stretched out, but now I like it. So much so that I put a somewhat longer stem on my other bike.

    I think the stem that came on my Medium Hollowpoint is 110mm. If you feel too stretched out, you could shorten the stem or perhaps play with the seat adjustment or even the seatpost -- the Easton seatpost has about 1" of setback. Putting a Thomson (non-setback) seatpost on the bike would move you farther forward...

  8. #8
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    kevin -why did you choose it over the 17" frame? were you able to test ride both?

    I'd like to use a 90mm stem on my frame.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTRider
    kevin -why did you choose it over the 17" frame? were you able to test ride both?

    I'd like to use a 90mm stem on my frame.
    Yes, I was able to test ride both the 17" frame and the 19" frame. On the 17" frame, my position was much more upright and I felt somewhat cramped. The 19" frame definitely felt better to me, so that's what I went with. Also, I had been having warranty issues with my other bike, and wanted a "spare" that was somewhat on the large side so that I could loan it to my brothers both of whom are taller than myself. The ironic thing is that I like the Hollowpoint better now for certain kinds of riding and have been using it much more frequently than my other bike (which is a Specialized Enduro).

  10. #10
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    Kevin - what size Enduro do you have? this might help me since I've been on a Medium 2004 Enduro and liked how that fit - but I can't find a shop close by that carries the Hollowpoints to give em a shot.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTRider
    Kevin - what size Enduro do you have? this might help me since I've been on a Medium 2004 Enduro and liked how that fit - but I can't find a shop close by that carries the Hollowpoints to give em a shot.
    I have a medium Enduro. To me, it feels somewhat smaller than a medium Hollowpoint. I have a Thomson setback seatpost on the Enduro though and that doesn't provide me with as much setback as the Easton post that's on the Hollowpoint. (The original seatpost on the Enduro gave me 1" of setback; the Thomson provides only 5/8" of setback.) Also, the stem on the Hollowpoint is 10mm longer than what I originally had on my Enduro. Prior to my purchase of the Hollowpoint, now almost three months ago, I did a test ride on a medium Enduro with a straight Thomson seatpost (no setback). That Enduro felt too small to me. You should check the bike that you did your test ride on to see if the seatpost had any setback or not.

    I just walked out to the garage and took some measurements. My medium Enduro with a 120mm stem measures 23.125 inches from the tip (front) of the saddle to the center of the handlebars where the stem connects. The same measurement on my hollowpoint (which has a 110mm stem) is currently 24 inches. (I'm waiting for a warranty part to come in on for the Hollowpoint's Manitou Black Platinum fork; I currently have an old Marzocchi fork on the Hollowpoint. The steering tube is shorter on the Marzocchi. I think this lengthens the cockpit a bit. It certainly feels like it when I ride the bike.) Anyway, with the current setup, the Hollowpoint's cockpit is about 7/8" longer than my Enduro. I'd guess that with the Black fork put back on the bike, it'd be between 1/2" to 3/4".

    I haven't measured it, but I think the Hollowpoint also has a higher standover height. I think this is partly due to the fact that the Hollowpoint also has a higher BB. I have at least 1/2" more pedal clearance with the Hollowpoint than with the Enduro. Pedaling through rock gardens bears this out. I bang my pedals against rocks much more often on the Enduro than on the Hollowpoint.

    So, in conclusion, IMO, a medium Hollowpoint is somewhat larger than a medium Enduro. Just how much larger will depend on the type of seatpost and length of stem. Hopefully I've given you enough info above to allow you to form a conclusion about whether a medium Hollowpoint will work for you.
    Last edited by KevinB; 11-30-2004 at 10:31 AM.

  12. #12
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    wow Kevin -thanks for going to that length to help me out - you rock!

    the Frame I'm considering comes with a straight Thomson post - so that should help me out a bit.

    I just wish I could get more confirmation from others on the sizing and fit.

    It really is a nice looking frame and well within my budget allowing me to spend some other money on nicer parts or save it for later.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTRider
    the Frame I'm considering comes with a straight Thomson post - so that should help me out a bit.
    With the straight Thomson post and a 90mm stem, I think a medium Hollowpoint frame could work for you. In fact, you might even be able to use a slightly longer stem.

    If you haven't done so already, take a look at http://www.ironhorsebikes.com/IH_2004_catalog.pdf. On the right hand side of page 10 of this document, you'll find the Hollowpoint geometry info. According to this table, the horizontal distance between the middle of the head tube to the middle of the seat tube (i.e. top tube length) only increases by 0.5" when going from a 17" to 19" bike. Since you've ridden an Enduro, you might want to compare this table with the geometry info available at Specialized's site. It looks to me like the TT length on a medium Hollowpoint is in between that of a medium and large Enduro. This certainly jibes with my experience with the two frames.

  14. #14
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    It is that .5 mm that worries me Kevin - you see I think the 23.3 of the 17" frame might be ideal.

    If only I could find a shop that has some of these in stock to see for real, but nobody (I've called six different shops around here) has even one Hollowpoint for me to throw a friggin leg over.

    ARgh!

  15. #15
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    You know what - here's a suggestion for Iron Horse - they should include a sizing chart like santa cruz does which recommends frame sizes and stem lengths based on riders heights.

    the measurements listed for a 2003 hollowpoint and a 2004 Hollowpoint are completely different in each size range - yet Todd posted in another thread that hey are all the same from 2002 through 2004 - so what gives and what is accurate? What appears in the catalog PDF files or something completely different somewhere in the middle?

    Did they measure actual top tube in 2003 and then effective top tube in year 2004???


    Help!

  16. #16
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    Iron Horse did use acutal (not effective) TT measurements in '03, and took a bunch on shlt for it on the various mountain bike forums. We had to rely on Supergo's published data, which was claimed to be measured ETT lengths.

    Now then, Supergo listed 22.8, 23.4 & 24.2 for the '03 bikes.

    They list 23.3, 23.8 & 24.6 for the '04 bikes.

    I just measured my 19" '03 with a 100mm fork and I'm getting something on the high side of the 23.5 range.

    This probably only confuses matters more, but at least you guys are in the ballpark! I changed my order probably 3 or 4 times between medium and large based on ETT figures.

  17. #17
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    I did some measurements. I'm 174cm or 5' 8.5". So you'd think I'd be better off on a small. (And no, my knuckles don't drag on the ground ) However, comparing to my old bike which is a Cannondale KillerV hardtail of about 1993 vintage.




    'DaleHP
    ETT23.5"23.75"
    Stem150mm100mm
    Reach80cm80cm

    Excuse the mixture of units. Reach is approx and I measured from the bars at the stem, back to the point on the seat where my sit bones would be. I guess it doesn't take into account handlebar sweep, but I'd say they're similar. Also handlebar drop is probably a little less on the HP.
    So it means that taking into account the sum of the ETT and stem as being less on the HP (by about 1.7"), I have set my seat back to a position where I have ended up with about the same reach. I only derived that seat position by feel, so I was a little surprised that the figures came up the same.
    So I think that the medium is fine for me, but I am sitting back further compared with my old bike. Perhaps I might be better off with a longer stem and move my seat forward to have more weight on the bars? I generally slide a fair way forward on climbs now, but perhaps a more forward position might also help in cornering. I might just try with the seat a bit more forward and see how it feels. I've probably grown very used to a stretched out position unlike that of most newer bikes these days.

    Steve

  18. #18
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    I am 5'10"

    I have a medium Hollowpoint Sport and it fits me perfect. I test rode both the small and medium and found that this fit me better. My other bike is a hardtail from Giant and it's an 18" and they feel the same, sizewise. I say go for the medium.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertg
    I have a medium Hollowpoint Sport and it fits me perfect. I test rode both the small and medium and found that this fit me better. My other bike is a hardtail from Giant and it's an 18" and they feel the same, sizewise. I say go for the medium.
    Thanks - I've been on an 18" giant frame and that feels too big for me - nope I think the right choice for me is a small 2004 Hollowpoint (17").

  20. #20
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    Talked with another 5'10" rider who's on a medium and it fits him fine he says.....now I'm rethinking this once again. hmmmmmm

  21. #21
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    Medium

    At 5'7" I fit a medium well. It has 100mm stem, and setback seatpost.
    It doesn't feel too far off from my 2001 NRS 1, which is Giants small at 16.5".

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronk
    At 5'7" I fit a medium well. It has 100mm stem, and setback seatpost.
    It doesn't feel too far off from my 2001 NRS 1, which is Giants small at 16.5".
    And yours is a 2004 Medium Kronk?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTRider
    Talked with another 5'10" rider who's on a medium and it fits him fine he says.....now I'm rethinking this once again. hmmmmmm
    Recently, I'd been suffering from a sore back after riding my Hollowpoint, but not my Enduro. I knew that I was a lot more stretched out on the Hollowpoint, so I switched to a shorter stem (110mm -> 100mm). But then I started comparing my position on the Enduro vs the Hollowpoint and noticed that my saddle position was way too far back. I've moved it forward somewhat; it's still set back somewhat further than on my Enduro, but it's within the margins recommeded in Zinn's book. I've put the original (110mm) stem back on the bike and the saddle to handlebar measurement is now nearly identical to my Enduro. I think I've ridden the bike twice since making this switch and my back does feel better.

    I think that a medium would work for you, particularly with a Thomson straight post. (I'm considering getting one of these now.)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB
    Recently, I'd been suffering from a sore back after riding my Hollowpoint, but not my Enduro. I knew that I was a lot more stretched out on the Hollowpoint, so I switched to a shorter stem (110mm -> 100mm). But then I started comparing my position on the Enduro vs the Hollowpoint and noticed that my saddle position was way too far back. I've moved it forward somewhat; it's still set back somewhat further than on my Enduro, but it's within the margins recommeded in Zinn's book. I've put the original (110mm) stem back on the bike and the saddle to handlebar measurement is now nearly identical to my Enduro. I think I've ridden the bike twice since making this switch and my back does feel better.

    I think that a medium would work for you, particularly with a Thomson straight post. (I'm considering getting one of these now.)
    Thanks again Kevin - I'm still trying to get some additional feedback from Hollowpoint owners on other mtb forums before making a yes or no decision.

    Any pics of your Hollowpoint and your Enduro for comparison purposes?

  25. #25
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    2003

    Quote Originally Posted by MMcG
    And yours is a 2004 Medium Kronk?
    It's a 2003. But went to sit on a 2004 today while out after seeing your question.
    Doesn't seem any different, but actual numbers would be the only way to know.

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