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  1. #1
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    We the people ... Iron Horse. In the near future.

    First, I doubt that title is even right. With so much lack of emphasis on Iron horse as a viable candidate in Cycling, maybe us as owners/riders/fans can use this thread as scratch-paper for notes. You know, pitch ideas for base-lines.
    Nothing will be included as far as componentry however, only size and altering of the size.

  2. #2
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    having a dw-link bike that was decently spec'd, built and shipped for ~1500 dollars was what sold their brandname.

    They won't have dw-link.

    I don't see them succeeding in the marketplace. Would just be another Titus/kona/gt/haro/ibex/jamis/k2/khs. Nothing special.

  3. #3
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    That was weak. Yeah-- 'Business Model' is going to be a bit rough. My thoughts center with sizing. 4 or 5 does not cut the muster.

  4. #4
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    sizing? was there anything wrong with the old sizing? seemed great to me

  5. #5
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    Wheelbase size. The Medium and Small All-Mtn and DH bikes could utilize a sliding rear-dropout to tighten up single-track then carve-up rough DH. General Geometry of the bikes seems fine, I never had ridden the Sunday.

  6. #6
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    I love my Sachem, but I never liked the HTA @ 69 degrees. I had to put a longer travel fork on it and a shorter rear shock to slacken it. It feels great now. That's the only geometry problem I have.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachem6
    I love my Sachem, but I never liked the HTA @ 69 degrees. I had to put a longer travel fork on it and a shorter rear shock to slacken it. It feels great now. That's the only geometry problem I have.
    Small variables like steering have many, many ways to be altered however. More front tire, flatter stem, less rear tire for example... even handle-bar up-sweep.

    Having to expect a Model be compatible among the many types of riders with widely-varied body configurations, it makes sense to have the middle ranges of XS, S, M, L, XL use a non-rigid rear dropout. The steering becomes slowed, greater stability from a longer wheelbase becomes apparent, and more power to the ground can be applyed from the pedals. The feature could be a 'set-and-forget' type-thing, or it could allow the determined rider to reign-in more performace.

  8. #8
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    That sounds like a cool idea. I just like a slacker HTA because I've been racing in Super D races the past 2 years and the bike feels more stable now. The first year I raced my bike was stock and it felt like I was going to go over the bars when I would go through some technical sections too fast. Last year I got the longer fork and shorter shock and the bike felt much better and faster. I felt like I could lay off the brakes alot more.I like the fact that alot of the new All Mountain bikes have a HTA around 67 degrees.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sachem6
    That sounds like a cool idea. I just like a slacker HTA because I've been racing in Super D races the past 2 years and the bike feels more stable now. The first year I raced my bike was stock and it felt like I was going to go over the bars when I would go through some technical sections too fast. Last year I got the longer fork and shorter shock and the bike felt much better and faster. I felt like I could lay off the brakes alot more.I like the fact that alot of the new All Mountain bikes have a HTA around 67 degrees.
    More of the stability you have built into the bike now comes from your Sachem's Bottom-Bracket. It is lower for when you drop your cranks in a corner, and lower between the wheels giving better hands-on when at speed in the rough.

    Good that you can tune a better ride into your bike !

  10. #10
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    head angles were always too steep. a 5" trail bike with a 69 HA @140mm.. that's just crazy.

  11. #11
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    One feature which could trend would be for Iron Horse to offer XS/S/M/L/XL sizes (all which get looked at), and then for an XL version of each be made.
    Just like what Dave Weagle's Free Agent 'Limo' BMX bike had came with a long time ago: it was just like my Expert Free Agent, only it offered a longer TT with the same geometry-stack. Maybe a bit steeper HT Angle came along, but this was BMX. For Mountain Bike app's, this would correct a better brand identity.

  12. #12
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    No good mtbr sucks

    Try to show support for great bikes always drags the Twisted Panty brigade
    out.
    Last edited by colorado_freerider; 07-06-2011 at 10:01 PM. Reason: People getting combative

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_freerider View Post
    I know this is off subject some what...
    Actually IH can survive if they get the money situation under control,
    I busted my frame on my YETI 575 on a drop, Co workers talked me into getting that overpriced POS.
    I looked for a replacement on CL, found a 2006 Iron horse Yakuza Sohon Bocho That I am building DH.
    2 months ago I found a Iron horse Warrior Trail on CL for cheap, Similar frame to the Yakuza without the travel and bought it for an AM bike to get feel of IH bikes B4 maiden run of the Yakuza.
    Best riding Mtn bike I have been on, I also notice that since IH went Bankrupt in 2009 YETI and several other makers started pirating their Designs... Frame on my 575 was Identical to IH Warrior only diff was the DW link YETI uses..... I hope IH recovers completely and brings production back to USA !!!

    I am a confirmed Iron Horse fan, I have done DH, Freeride, Drops, Jumps on IH.. It outperforms that YETI....

    Long Live Iron Horse!!!
    this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. first of all, all single pivots will generally look very similar. no one is copying anyone's design. especially not yeti copying a catalog frame. the reason other companies have similar bikes is because they bought them from the same supplier. secondly, yeti doesn't use dw-link. also, iron horse frames were made in taiwan except for the factory version of a few models.
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_freerider View Post
    Actually IH can survive if they get the money situation under control,
    If you spend some time reading past posts in this forum, you'll see that IH didn't survive. They went into bankruptcy and were bought by Dorel, a company which owns many other bike brands. While it is the case that there will be new Iron Horse bikes, it appears that they'll be low end bikes. The old Iron Horse company offered a mix of low and somewhat-high end bikes. Many of us were drawn to them in the 2003-2008 time frame for the DW-Link offerings.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Jemima View Post
    That was weak. Yeah-- 'Business Model' is going to be a bit rough. My thoughts center with sizing. 4 or 5 does not cut the muster.
    Quote Originally Posted by redmr2_man View Post
    sizing? was there anything wrong with the old sizing? seemed great to me
    As paradoxical as it might sound, I agree with both of you on this point. Back in the day, four to five inches of travel was great. These days it doesn't seem like so much. That said, there really is a limit to the amount of travel that one can effectively use regardless of the type of riding.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=KevinB;8191315]If you spend some time reading past posts in this forum, you'll see that IH didn't survive. They went into bankruptcy and were bought by Dorel, a company which owns many other bike brands. While it is the case that there will be new Iron Horse bikes, it appears that they'll be low end bikes. The old Iron Horse company offered a mix of low and somewhat-high end bikes. Many of us were drawn to them in the 2003-2008 time frame for the DW-Link offerings.[/QUOTE
    Last edited by colorado_freerider; 07-06-2011 at 10:04 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinB View Post
    As paradoxical as it might sound, I agree with both of you on this point. Back in the day, four to five inches of travel was great. These days it doesn't seem like so much. That said, there really is a limit to the amount of travel that one can effectively use regardless of the type of riding.
    I think 5" of quality rear travel (like the MKIII had) is all I will ever want or need for any riding that I am not being shuttled to the top. It is all I ever needed for the rough stuff, and much more than that I found to make the bike less responsive on tight singletrack, berms and rolling dips.

    To me, around 5" with a solid, sturdy build is the perfect "do-it-all" bike.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I think 5" of quality rear travel (like the MKIII had) is all I will ever want or need for any riding that I am not being shuttled to the top. It is all I ever needed for the rough stuff, and much more than that I found to make the bike less responsive on tight singletrack, berms and rolling dips.

    To me, around 5" with a solid, sturdy build is the perfect "do-it-all" bike.
    absolutely. my mkiii felt bottomless and it was just the right amount. my only gripe was that the angles were too steep.
    RIP Adam Yauch

    "M.C. for what I AM and do, the A is for Adam and the lyrics; true"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by saturnine View Post
    this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. first of all, all single pivots will generally look very similar. no one is copying anyone's design. especially not yeti copying a catalog frame. the reason other companies have similar bikes is because they bought them from the same supplier. secondly, yeti doesn't use dw-link. also, iron horse frames were made in taiwan except for the factory version of a few models.
    Last edited by colorado_freerider; 07-06-2011 at 10:06 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_freerider View Post
    Also Colorado based Yeti and even Giant are also great for importing frame components from Taiwan and now China.
    Are you aware of the fact that Giant is the largest frame manufacturer in the world? The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Are you aware of the fact that Giant is the largest frame manufacturer in the world? The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around the part where Yeti is coping IH.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Are you aware of the fact that Giant is the largest frame manufacturer in the world? The amount of misinformation in this thread is astounding.
    Yes they are the largest frame manufacturer, who has to answer to corporate bean counters in this wonderful economy who have them farming half their production out to China because of the savings..

    Now regarding Yeti never producing single pivot or attempting to I should say.. These Pics are from 2005 to 2010. I am no longer saying copied. Just get off the high horses people. There is no longer such a thing as the perfect American made bike! they all have Asian fingerprints on some of their parts. Until this country gets back on its feet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Iron Horse.  In the near future.-spite-complicated-look-prototype-yeti-303-rdh-essentially-single-pivot-bike..jpg  

    Iron Horse.  In the near future.-303rdh09greyws.jpg  

    Iron Horse.  In the near future.-2010_ross_milan_yeti_303rdh.jpg  

    Iron Horse.  In the near future.-asx_03lo_res.jpg  

    Iron Horse.  In the near future.-interbike_dusty_as-xws.jpg  

    Last edited by colorado_freerider; 07-06-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_freerider View Post
    Yes they are the largest frame manufacturer, who has to answer to corporate bean counters in this wonderful economy who have them farming half their production out to China because of the savings..
    Who cares if they are moving production from Taiwan to China?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Who cares if they are moving production from Taiwan to China?
    Exactly. I do not care where my bike frame comes from, as long as it rides good and will stand up to the ride... Made in USA is nice.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by colorado_freerider View Post
    Exactly. I do not care where my bike frame comes from, as long as it rides good and will stand up to the ride... Made in USA is nice.
    Right, I agree.

    Just to be clear, though, Giant is a Taiwanese company to begin with, so US-based production was never really part of their model. Any production they may have moved to China would have been moved from Taiwan, not from the USA.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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