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  1. #1
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    IH 6 Point Suspension Upgrade

    I own an Iron Horse 6point and next year I am going to add more travel because i am starting to ride more dh/frl by changing my forks from 160s to 180s and i am switching my rear shock from from an 8.75x2.5 to a 8.75x2.75. I am planning on getting Rockshox Domains 318is forks and i was wondering if they were any good? Also i am planning on getting Marzocchi Roco WC shock. I weigh about 135lbs with gear on and i was wondering what spring weight i should get for my rear shock?

  2. #2
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    For the money the Domains are the best deal in town! I've owned 2 sets of 318's; the 160 u-turn, and the 180. (but seriously besides the low cost, their damn good forks. For 3 years, never had a problem) Both with a coil DHX5 2.75" stroke.

    Itís a little heavy but it can take anything I can throw at it.

  3. #3
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    Go check out bikewagon.com

    I thought I saw some fox vanilla R's on there for $130 in 8.75 x 2.75

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    Ok sweet!. You mean Van R's? Sick! Thanks

  5. #5
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    The Domains are about the best deal going as mentioned. As for the rear shock... know this - DW Link bikes like the 6 Point need about 1/3 less damping than a standard shock. So what you end up with is an overdamped, undersprung shock if you were to go for something like that Vanilla R (it would ride like garbage compared to a properly tuned shock with an "A" tune (or Sunday tune as they're sometimes called). PUSH could gut it and tune it for you. I had the same done by Craig at Avy for my 5th and it kills it on my 6 Point. He also sells rear shocks that would amaze you. Another good option is the X-Fusion Vector with the adjustable damping. Good luck with an outta the box Fox or zocchi tho!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

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    Ya im getting the roco. So do i need an "A" tune if im getting the roco? How much would it cost to do this?

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    Yes, you would need the A tune. Here's a thread on where to get it done: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=233226

    Have FUN!

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

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    Ok thank you

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbags
    Ya im getting the roco. So do i need an "A" tune if im getting the roco? How much would it cost to do this?
    Which ROCO are you getting?

    I have a ROCO TST-R coil . It's currently on my DH bike but I used to run it on my 6point. I bought it for the 6point actually. The ROCO is not a platform shock and behaves differently than a DHX-c or Air.
    I felt the ROCO was plenty plush fully open and had no desire to send it to anyone.
    You may think differently after a few rides but I would ride that shock stock for awhile before you send it out to be retuned.
    Make sure you get the right spring rate for your weight and leverage. I am 180lbs and run a 300lb spring. It gives me 35% sag.

    Looking at your weight you might want to go with a ROCO WC air. At 135lbs you need a 200-250lb spring.

    Edit: Just noticed you said you were going to get a WC. The WC is actually plusher than the TST-R so that's even better.
    Last edited by wormvine; 08-20-2010 at 08:44 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terminator Z
    For the money the Domains are the best deal in town! I've owned 2 sets of 318's; the 160 u-turn, and the 180. (but seriously besides the low cost, their damn good forks. For 3 years, never had a problem) Both with a coil DHX5 2.75" stroke.

    Itís a little heavy but it can take anything I can throw at it.
    How stiff is the spring?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtbags
    How stiff is the spring?
    Both have just the stock springs, and I weight about 170lbs with gear. The fork is pretty plush. Sometimes on bigger drops I do bottom it out (when compression is fully open) but I never feel it. With the wide compression adjustments, you can pretty much make it as stiff as you want.

    Oh, rear spring for me is a 400.
    Last edited by Terminator Z; 08-23-2010 at 03:55 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    I am 180lbs and run a 300lb spring. It gives me 35% sag.
    Why do you run that much sag? You realize that with a 2.75" stroke you're running even more sag compared to the stock 2.5 stroke! I find 30% to be about optimal for pedaling efficiency and clearance (also recommended by DW and Craig at Avy). And again, I'm not a fan of overdamped, undersprung shocks. I'm 170 and run a 400 lb spring; would bottom HARD if I ran a 300 at 35% sag!

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Why do you run that much sag? You realize that with a 2.75" stroke you're running even more sag compared to the stock 2.5 stroke! I find 30% to be about optimal for pedaling efficiency and clearance (also recommended by DW and Craig at Avy). And again, I'm not a fan of overdamped, undersprung shocks. I'm 170 and run a 400 lb spring; would bottom HARD if I ran a 300 at 35% sag!

    Have FUN!
    G MAN
    I am not too concerned about "proper" sag as I always set my suspension by feel. DW has mentioned 30% but it's not written in stone and can be increased or decreased depending on riding style and terrain. He has stated such in other posts .
    Here is a quote from tftunedshox website about sag:
    On Rear shocks sag is expressed as a percentage of maximum stroke and is best set at 20-30% for XC (firm), 25-35% for Enduro and 25-45% Downhill. The better damped a shock the more sag you can usually run because the compression damping will prevent the shock from blowing through it's travel. This allows you to run deeper in the stroke without blowing through the travel giving better control over braking bumps & cornering stability (due to lower centre of gravity).

    I am not to worried about pedaling efficiency optimums because my bike climbs just fine for my tastes. In fact it climbs like a mofo.... But climbing for me is only a means to an end, Descending is why I ride and I tune my bike accordingly.

    But 300-350lb spring is estimated by both the TFtunedshox spring calculator and Igorion calculator to give me 33-35% sag.
    I do smack my pedals from time to time but no more than any of my friends on our rides.
    My shock is neither under sprung or overdamped. It's plenty plush and rebounds very fast if I want it to. Undersprung would only be a concern for me if rebound force was too weak and your rebound was too slow even full open. You can usually adjust the rebound out a few clicks to offset this but if the valving is too restrictive you would then need to revalve or change shock fluid weight. Since both the Roco TST-R and the DHX5-air have bottom out control, I can run more sag for a plusher feel and still prevent harsh bottoming.
    The ROCO has since been moved to my Faith which has a higher leverage ratio. Sag must be somewhere near 40% and I rarely bottom out harshly.

  14. #14
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    Ah, that makes more sense, especially with adjustable bottom out resistance. My Avy tuned 5th is pretty much pre-set with a non-adjustable nitrogen charge so that's not an option for me. I can say that I've never had a smoother shock tho and that includes a PUSHed DHXC and even John Ford, owner of Bear Creek Bikes, commented on how "dialed" my bike was last Friday on the Ashland Super D course. While he rode mine, I rode his Faith... what a SIIIIIIIIIICK ride! I'm 5'9" and it was a large but didn't feel too big for me (which surprised me). Probably the best handling, most balanced, best jumping bike I've ever ridden! Now I'm thinking of losing the 6 Point frame for one of those. What size is yours and how tall are you? Are you going to keep your 6 Point?

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  15. #15
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    My 2007 w its stock DHX3Air has no problem issues, other than weeping a slight bit of oil above the rebound adjust. One click of Rebound, if-at-all, and at 195lbs w/o get-up, I run about 25%sag seated, not moving. 195lbs in the Air, and bare-minimum in the Boost Valve. (I will rarely go out of this range also) Reason being while moving, I do have more ballast-weight than a lesser weight of rider. Also, I have a Totem at 180mm in front, and it can overdrive the back. So I am most likely in the constant for the dw-link be there when I am hammering-on.
    I'd consider the 8.75" shock length, but I have zero for complaints for what I have.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Ah, that makes more sense, especially with adjustable bottom out resistance. My Avy tuned 5th is pretty much pre-set with a non-adjustable nitrogen charge so that's not an option for me. I can say that I've never had a smoother shock tho and that includes a PUSHed DHXC and even John Ford, owner of Bear Creek Bikes, commented on how "dialed" my bike was last Friday on the Ashland Super D course. While he rode mine, I rode his Faith... what a SIIIIIIIIIICK ride! I'm 5'9" and it was a large but didn't feel too big for me (which surprised me). Probably the best handling, most balanced, best jumping bike I've ever ridden! Now I'm thinking of losing the 6 Point frame for one of those. What size is yours and how tall are you? Are you going to keep your 6 Point?

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Avy tuned 5th is a good choice. And don't get me wrong...Custom tuned shocks are the best option, especially if you race, but I am content so far with my setup as is.

    I really cannot see a reason to get rid of the 6point anytime soon. Especially since I just picked up a WR450F.
    But the new 2010 Faith is a sweet rig. But it's not enough to get me to dump the 6point.
    I kind of have my eye on a Banshee Rune or something similar. The 2010 Faith takes me more towards DH and I already have a dedicated DH bike.(2006 Faith/888). I would consider a Reign X (broken link issues aside) but other than weight I don't see any real advantage to me over the 6point. Mine has been rock solid for 3 years and I have a full pivot and linkage replacement set for it as well.

    I am 5'8" and ride a large 6point. I had a medium but it felt too cramped with a 50mm stem.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    I am 5'8" and ride a large 6point. I had a medium but it felt too cramped with a 50mm stem.
    Well that's where I'm at now - I'm 5'9" and my 6 Point is a medium with a 50mm stem and it's just too small for me. The new Faith is calling my name!

    Cheers,

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    Well that's where I'm at now - I'm 5'9" and my 6 Point is a medium with a 50mm stem and it's just too small for me. The new Faith is calling my name!

    Cheers,

    G
    I hear ya on the size medium. I think a layback post would help a bunch.
    But I do understand the thirst for new gear. The Faith would be awesome with a 180mm Fox Float. or Van.... I am trying to convince my buddy to buy one!

    The only issue I have with any frames these days is ease of serviceability.
    The giants are not any easier to replace pivot bearings than the 6points. I have 3 giants and one 6point
    Grease ports are a big plus for me and if someone made it less of a royal pain to service and/or replace bearings I would be very interested.
    Between my wife and myself, I have 4 bikes to maintain as well as 2 dirt bikes and snowboard gear etc. I love to wrench on stuff but it's getting out of control.
    The Banshee Rune has greasable igus bushings. Easy to maintain and service.
    Maybe Giant will go the Igus route??? Prolly not!

  19. #19
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    Tallness is not a determining factor in frame size though. I ride a medium and am comfortable with a slightly smaller bike. Taking my M Yakuza Bakuto HT I ran in slalom at Highland this Year to the theme build for the bike, a Small would just not work for me. Slalom bikes can be found built up a size smaller than a general-build.
    How well the frame fits within your knee~leading pedal vertical axis~seat adjustment is more critical, and therefore the inseam is the more better factor.

  20. #20
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    I have a 30" inseam and the bike feels okay but the short wheelbase (about an inch shorter than most medium AM bikes) is noticable at speed and climbing is awkward unless I already have the seatpost up (who makes an on-the-fly adjustable post in 30.0?!). I do have a layback post (Race Face 3/4" setback, the most I was able to find in 30.0) so might try a 60 or 70mm stem now instead? The Faith is no longer an option as I may be out of a job soon.

    Have FUN!

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    I have a 30" inseam and the bike feels okay but the short wheelbase (about an inch shorter than most medium AM bikes) is noticable at speed and climbing is awkward unless I already have the seatpost up (who makes an on-the-fly adjustable post in 30.0?!). I do have a layback post (Race Face 3/4" setback, the most I was able to find in 30.0) so might try a 60 or 70mm stem now instead? The Faith is no longer an option as I may be out of a job soon.

    Have FUN!

    G
    Try to find a machine shop or bike shop to ream out your seat-tube to 30.9.
    I am seriously considering it. Typical 30.9 seat-tubes have a O.D. of 34.9mm. That's the same as the 6point. The 6point seat-tube is thicker than all 3 Giants I have. Including 1 Glory and 1 Faith.
    I have no doubt that my 6point can be reamed with no ill effects. Assuming a good job by the shop.

  22. #22
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    My Yakuza, has lots of pull w/ a 45mm RIPPA Funn stem and 762mm bars. Putting that on my 6POINT made the bike terrible. Something like a 6deg rise on that stem. Going to a 60mm 0deg rise has me in satisified company. Although I am 6ft, I have a short inseam.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    who makes an on-the-fly adjustable post in 30.0?
    3 choices I'm aware of:
    - Gravity dropper http://gravitydropper.com/gravity-dropper-turbo/
    - All mountain seatpost http://www.precisioncyclingcomponents.com/amp.aspx
    - Kind shock I7 (should be out soon): http://www.kssuspension.com/en/produ...56&show_list=1

    All are 27.2 and you can shim that to 30.0. I need to order one myself.

    Overall these options should be cheaper and safer than reaming out the seat tube...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086
    I have a 30" inseam and the bike feels okay but the short wheelbase (about an inch shorter than most medium AM bikes) is noticable at speed and climbing is awkward unless I already have the seatpost up (who makes an on-the-fly adjustable post in 30.0?!). I do have a layback post (Race Face 3/4" setback, the most I was able to find in 30.0) so might try a 60 or 70mm stem now instead? The Faith is no longer an option as I may be out of a job soon.

    Have FUN!

    G
    Curious, what do you run as Tires? Running tires that are a bit heavier does make for a more stable ride, but the trade-off in weight is always there. For example, I was going to give-up-the-ghost with my WTB TimberWolves which came on my 2007. Close to 4 pounds for the front & at 3 for the back. But the bike would just creem anything on the trail and after alot guess-work, I worked a tire-pressure that just eats-it-up. Finding I was running the OE tubes for the past 2 years, no ****, being 2.5 WTB tubes they weighed an Ass-Ton. Putting some lightweight XC tubes back, where the bike would fight me in the air, it is now suprisingly managable. I could not have found more anything than a 1/4 pound on each wheel in saving of weight with the tubes. I then cut down the center-row on the Front Tire to where it cuts with the leading edge still, and they still give the bike stick. Considering going to a lighter-tire now, I am decidedly hesitant, because it may not have the heft to keep from plowing into or out-of corners. Maybe this is how your wheelbase comes up short, but seeing you race the bike, this is a different approach.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Jemima
    Curious, what do you run as Tires? Running tires that are a bit heavier does make for a more stable ride, but the trade-off in weight is always there. For example, I was going to give-up-the-ghost with my WTB TimberWolves which came on my 2007. Close to 4 pounds for the front & at 3 for the back. But the bike would just creem anything on the trail and after alot guess-work, I worked a tire-pressure that just eats-it-up. Finding I was running the OE tubes for the past 2 years, no ****, being 2.5 WTB tubes they weighed an Ass-Ton. Putting some lightweight XC tubes back, where the bike would fight me in the air, it is now suprisingly managable. I could not have found more anything than a 1/4 pound on each wheel in saving of weight with the tubes. I then cut down the center-row on the Front Tire to where it cuts with the leading edge still, and they still give the bike stick. Considering going to a lighter-tire now, I am decidedly hesitant, because it may not have the heft to keep from plowing into or out-of corners. Maybe this is how your wheelbase comes up short, but seeing you race the bike, this is a different approach.
    I use pretty aggro tires - Muddy Mary 2.35 front and probably back tho using a Big Betty rear now and was on 2.4 Motoraptors which were decent. Would like to find a fast rolling rear like a Nobby Nick that has some sidewall beef for FR/DH but not sure that tire exists.

    Cheers,

    G
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

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