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  1. #1
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    Another Rear Suspension Question (Hollowpoint)

    What hole on the dw-link is the 4.5 inch travel and which is the 3.75. Just from looking at the geometry, it looks like the top is the 4.5. Can anyone confirm this?

  2. #2
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    Found a thread

    Found a thread saying that the 3.75" mount is the top hole. Does anyone have a picture of their bike setup with the 4.5" setting. Just curious if I am supposed to turn the shock upside down. I searched ironhorses site, and I could not find any information on the dw-link setup.

    Thanks
    -Mike

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibud2
    Found a thread saying that the 3.75" mount is the top hole. Does anyone have a picture of their bike setup with the 4.5" setting. Just curious if I am supposed to turn the shock upside down. I searched ironhorses site, and I could not find any information on the dw-link setup.
    This probably doesn't help.


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by f*nĉtik
    This probably doesn't help.

    f*nĉtik,

    Thanks for the picture. That thread is where I found the information about the holes.

    The problem is that I have a 2004 hollowpoint with a U shaped bracket that sits in the shock mount. I was wondering whether I was supposed to leave the bracket in and just turn it upside down. It looks like the bracket may hit the shock when compressed. Do you have any idea? Did you have the bracket on your bike (and possibly took it off)?

  5. #5
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    The bracket on the '04 bikes can be flipped. The shock can be rotated to whichever orientation is more workable.

  6. #6
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    Has anyone switched their 2004 Expert with Swinger to the 4.5 inch setting?
    I had a quick try and it looks like the SPV valve cap will interfere with the new bracket (the bracket not in the picture of Speedüb Nate's '03 above).
    I doubt that turning the shock around would help. Inverting it would make adjustments difficult, if not impossible.
    Guess it could be mounted without that bracket, but some spacers would be needed, or the bracket could be shaved, or perhaps it's a design flaw.

    Hanging out to try the longer setting,
    Steve

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by slaw
    Has anyone switched their 2004 Expert with Swinger to the 4.5 inch setting?
    I had a quick try and it looks like the SPV valve cap will interfere with the new bracket (the bracket not in the picture of Speedüb Nate's '03 above).
    I doubt that turning the shock around would help. Inverting it would make adjustments difficult, if not impossible.
    Guess it could be mounted without that bracket, but some spacers would be needed, or the bracket could be shaved, or perhaps it's a design flaw.
    You can flip/turn the shock around in various ways to fit it in. You may have tough access to some adjustments on the shock but this is one of the problems with having such a wide variety of shocks available on the market. Make sure to check for adjuster clearance on frame parts thru the travel. The best way to check is by letting the air out of the shock and cycling the bike slowly thru the travel. If you need/want better access to an adjustment you can always remove the shock shuttle and run 41.5mm hardware. You will lose some rear end stiffness but it is fully ridable this way.

    -ska todd

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ska todd
    You can flip/turn the shock around in various ways to fit it in. You may have tough access to some adjustments on the shock but this is one of the problems with having such a wide variety of shocks available on the market. Make sure to check for adjuster clearance on frame parts thru the travel. The best way to check is by letting the air out of the shock and cycling the bike slowly thru the travel. If you need/want better access to an adjustment you can always remove the shock shuttle and run 41.5mm hardware. You will lose some rear end stiffness but it is fully ridable this way.

    -ska todd
    I'll try to have another look this weekend. It would be a pity if it's not going to work easily as the Swinger is the stock shock for this bike.
    Another option might be to install the bracket with the shock, and instead of bolting it to the upper holes, position it elsewhere. That would avoid getting other hardware and it might maintain the same stiffness.
    Still hoping that someone who has been through this can report. Anyone?

    Steve

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    Update. I tried all orientations of the shock in the 4.5" holes and not one will work.
    I tried to position the shuttle so that the other holes are below the shock mount but it appears that the linkages narrow down so the shuttle wouldn't fit. My thought was that perhaps the shuttle would fit there and holes could be drilled in the linkages for that position. Guess that would void the warranty though.
    So looks like my option now is to get other hardware. When you say 41.5mm hardware Ska Todd, is that some sort of standard gear for the shock or frame?
    Perhaps I could get another shuttle made up that would either fit in a lower position, or somehow provide clearance for the SPV valve cap and still bolt into the upper holes.
    I think I'll talk to my LBS anyway. See if they can help.
    I'm lovin the bike so far in the 3.75" setting, but it is advertised as a 4.5" bike which is why I bought it, and I'm a little disappointed I'm not getting that. At least not yet.

    Steve

  10. #10
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    I'm not sure I understand your dilemma.

    The linkage plates run parallel, so the distance between the two mounting postions is equal.

    Why can't you simply flip the shuttle, deflate the shock and rotate just the shaft 180° degrees (red adjuster is facing down), and bolt everything back together?


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedüb Nate
    I'm not sure I understand your dilemma.

    The linkage plates run parallel, so the distance between the two mounting postions is equal.

    Why can't you simply flip the shuttle, deflate the shock and rotate just the shaft 180° degrees (red adjuster is facing down), and bolt everything back together?

    That is exactly what you need to do.
    I have checked a bunch of diffrent shocks with the shuttle to check for clearance issues. In the 4.5 postition. you do need to rotate the shock shaft so that the SPV(red) valve is facing down and the Preload(black) stays in the same position.
    Any Question please E-mail me.

    Bruce.
    Customer Service IHBC

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    Thanks Speedüb Nate and Bruce.

    I didn't know that the shaft could be rotated. I'll give that a go. I presume that once the shock has been deflated, that the shaft will just turn, or is some disassembly required?

    BTW, Speedüb Nate, the linkages are parallel between the two mount holes, but I was trying to put the shuttle below the lower mount hole and there the gap between the linkages appears to narrow down towards the bottom linkage pivot. I knew that posting a picture would have helped, but when I get the shock mounted as you have described maybe I'll try to post a pic of that instead.

    Steve

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by slaw
    I presume that once the shock has been deflated, that the shaft will just turn
    Yep. I find there is usually a little resistance, but if you stick an allen wrench through the eyelets you'll have no problem cranking it over.

    Quote Originally Posted by slaw
    the linkages are parallel between the two mount holes, but I was trying to put the shuttle below the lower mount hole and there the gap between the linkages appears to narrow down towards the bottom linkage pivot.
    Gotcha. Sounds like you were one step away from fabricating custom linkage plates.

    I'll have to dig up a post and pics I saw of a guy who made his own plates so he could fit a 2.0" stroke shock. Pretty tight tolerances but the lower suspension compression ratio should have make for a super tunable setup.

  14. #14
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    Gotcha. Sounds like you were one step away from fabricating custom linkage plates.
    No. I was contemplating a custom shuttle (which probably wouldn't be too hard to make) and drilling holes in the existing linkage to mount the shuttle below the lower shock mount bolts. I guessed then that I'd still get the stiffness advantage. Thankfully, it's looking like I don't need to go that route now.

    Once I've got the shock in the 4.5" position I can continue trying to tune the other multitude of settings on the bike. eg. I think the forks (Black Platinum SPV) feel a bit too firm for me (150lbs), so I might look at removing the secondary spring or using a lighter main spring. But that's another story (thread) ...

    Steve

  15. #15
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    Resolved

    Thanks everyone for your help. I managed to turn the shock shaft no probs and I now have the bike in the 4.5" setting. Yippee.

    Went for a longish ride on Saturday. It felt very different but I think the shock settings were out. My shock pump hasn't been working well. Did use a friend's on the ride but I wasn't very careful so I didn't think I had used it properly.

    So Sunday, I took the pump back to the shop and swapped it over for something different. The original was a flash looking SKS pump but it took heaps of strokes to get over 150psi in the rear shock main chamber. The SPV chamber of the shock and the fork didn't take too many strokes, but I wasn't happy with the amount I needed for the main rear. New one is a simpler, cheaper Giyo and it works much better, even loses less or no air on disconnection. Last night I found that I had little or no air in the SPV chamber so that's explains why the bike felt more prone to pedal bob on Saturday's ride.

    Guess I'll just have to get out riding again to try out different shock settings. Shucks.

    Steve

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by slaw
    Thanks everyone for your help. I managed to turn the shock shaft no probs and I now have the bike in the 4.5" setting. Yippee.
    No probs! Use the forum to ask anything and everything. Myself, dw, FormatX and others will be glad to chime in.

    Went for a longish ride on Saturday. It felt very different but I think the shock settings were out. My shock pump hasn't been working well. Did use a friend's on the ride but I wasn't very careful so I didn't think I had used it properly.
    Proper air pressure and sag is CRITICAL to the ride quality of the dw-link design. You will want sag at 1/3 travel and air pressure in the SPV/IFP chamber to be at the shock mfgr's minimum recommended setting. In the 4.5 travel position air can pressure will usually be approx = to riding weight.

    So Sunday, I took the pump back to the shop and swapped it over for something different. The original was a flash looking SKS pump but it took heaps of strokes to get over 150psi in the rear shock main chamber. The SPV chamber of the shock and the fork didn't take too many strokes, but I wasn't happy with the amount I needed for the main rear. New one is a simpler, cheaper Giyo and it works much better, even loses less or no air on disconnection. Last night I found that I had little or no air in the SPV chamber so that's explains why the bike felt more prone to pedal bob on Saturday's ride.
    Generally, unless you pump or shock is busted, the air loss you hear when disconnecting the chuck is air pressure in the pump not the shock. If your pump was not reading correct on other rider's shocks then I would suspect it to be a problem.

    Guess I'll just have to get out riding again to try out different shock settings. Shucks.
    Start with the above recommendations and season with rebound to taste.

    -ska todd

  17. #17
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    I switched mine over today. Thanks to this thread for showing me how!

    I wasn't really dying for the estra travel, but I could not get my pump attached to the SPV nozzle in the stock position.

    Anyway, It wasn't very hard at all, maybe a little tricky getting the shuttle, shock, and linkage all lined back up to get the bolt through but really no huge deal.

    As expected it took a lot more air to get the sag right.

    Anyway thanks for this thread I don't think I would have even realized I could have done that without it.

  18. #18
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    What longer-travel fork?

    So for those of us with 3.75" rear and a 100mm fork, if we want to try the 4.5" rear setting, what is a good match in a longer-travel fork? Is the Manitou Black a good companion? How does it compare to the standard (on the Sport) Duke XC Air?

    Thanks,

    Jim

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeamusCA
    So for those of us with 3.75" rear and a 100mm fork, if we want to try the 4.5" rear setting, what is a good match in a longer-travel fork? Is the Manitou Black a good companion? How does it compare to the standard (on the Sport) Duke XC Air?
    The Black and Dukes are both good fork platforms. I tend to view the Blacks as more all mountain-ish and the Duke more for XC use.

    If you are looking for a longer travel trail fork I'd look at:
    1. Rock Shox Reba/Pike
    2. Manitou Minute
    3. Fox Talas

    -ska todd

  20. #20
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    What about a 5th element on an RL

    Does the deflation/rotation trick work on a 5th element air, too?

    While we are at it, the stock setup worked well in the Northeast, but racing in Texas, I've found that it is really hard to control in fast, tight corners. What would help? I'm 5'9", 143, and ride really hard, but am looking to make it go fast without wanting to pitch me out of the saddle. There is no setup guidance out there - any advice would be appreciated.

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    Rotating the shaft ought to work on that shock just the same as any other.

    I'd stick with the stock setup, 50 psi in the SPV chamber and whatever sag you found works for you. I'm assuming you fiddled with the rebound damping already?

  22. #22
    pfb
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    I just reconfigured my '04 Hollowpoint Expert for the longer travel. Took me a minute as well to figure out to rotate only the spv half of the shock for clearance to get everything to fit...

    So why is there no documentaton at all on this included with the bike or on the IH web site??? Or at least a stamping or decal on the frame indicating which hole is long travel?

    I guess it's a moot point since '05's don't have adjustable travel...

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