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  1. #1
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    2003 Hollowpoint / Speedhub Build Pics

    It's good to see that Iron Horse is getting a forum of their own over here. Just for the heck of it, I'm copying and combining these posts from the old board.

    Here are the links to the original posts along with all the replies:

    (Hollowpoint Build Pics Part 1 (April '03)

    Hollowpoint Build Pics Part 2 (November '03)

    The Hollowpoint is an excellent all-mountain bike for an incredible price and the dw-link suspension is a solid "VPP killer" that works like a charm.

  2. #2
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    Frame & Shock

    Starting with a stripped down Medium (19") Hollowpoint Expert:

    DW Link; ES70 installation (white teflon pipe thread tape around threads):

    Upper swing link and AD12:

    Doubler plate on downtube shock mount:

    For some reason I really like this head tube & badge:

    Clean, nearly seamless finish to the FSA Oribt ZS Zero Stack headset:

    A near miss between the XVert TPC+ knob and down tube:

    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 06-03-2006 at 07:58 AM.

  3. #3
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    Drilling Out the Cable Stops

    I hate tearing up a perfectly good, brand new frame! I want to run full-length housing, though, so these have to go.

    I use a Dremel with a Flex Shaft and I believe that's a 9903 Carbide cutting bit. These bits like to walk, so I tape the frame for protection.

    Filing out any rough edges left behind with a chainsaw file. This file is 3/16", just a hair shy of the 5mm diameter housing I use.

    Aluminum shavings get everywhere, so I draped the frame in a plastic garbage bag before starting to cover the headset, shock, brakes, pivots ? anything that moves. A mask is a good idea if you don't want to breath aluminum dust.

    Finished product isn't as pretty as what I started with...

    ...and neither is the end result, but having sealed cable runs has proven a worthy "upgrade."

    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 06-03-2006 at 08:03 AM.

  4. #4
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    Speedhub Installation

    First task was to change the 17T cog I'd been using to a 15T cog, which suspension designer Dave Weagle recommended to minimize any unwanted pedaling effects.

    Cog changes on the Speedhub are very similar to the procedure used for removing a cassette lockring.

    Next Up: Installation of the Speedbone.

    The Speedbone is just a big hunk of aluminum that bolts to the outside of the disc tabs...

    ...projecting the silver cylindrical anti-torque arm...

    ...in towards the hub, where it is engaged by the installed Speedhub.

    The cable routing and cutting is my least favorite task. This is the external shifter, which is part of the Speedhub.

    External Shifter Box in place.

    Cables, housing & tension adjusting barrel adjusters in place. Cables have to be precisely cut so only a certain amount is left exposed.

    Cables are terminated in pulley wheel.

    Cables are wrapped onto grooves on pulley wheel, which is then installed in the External Shifter Box.

    External Shifter Box, cover in place.

    Finished Speedhub install:

    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 06-03-2006 at 08:04 AM.

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    So Far...

    ...so good. Gotta stop here for the weekend.



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    Build Pics Part II (Complete Bike)

    Figured I'd finally get off my duff and snap some photos of my '03 Iron Horse Hollowpoint that I've been riding on since April ? a follow-up of sorts to my HOLLOWPOINT BUILD PICS post from March, where I left off with a bike with no seat and no cranks.

    I've listed the specs at the bottom since they get in the way of the pretty pictures.

    The Speedhub drivetrain has been flawless, well worth the ~1.5 pound weight penalty. This one is my original Speedhub, celebrating its second birthday.

    I added the chainguide after dropping my chain three times during one ride (this after miles and miles of rides with no chainguide and no dropped chain problems ? weird).

    I picked the 36T ring and 15T cog combo on the recommendation of suspension designer Dave Weagle in an attempt to get the best performance out of his dw-link suspension. It resulted in gearing that is a touch low, but workable. I tend to spin out on asphalt, but in trade I get a wall crawling gear that you wouldn't believe.

    Yet another perfect chainline.

    Unfortunately a tensioner is required to handle suspension movement. Rohloff introduced a new quick release spring to retrofit their older tensioners. It allows simple and fast tension release for quick wheel removal. It also does away with a 90° bend in the spring what was a weak point in the original spring.

    Cockpit. Obscene amount of spacers coupled with a 25° rise stem, but I'll probably take it down an inch. I rode with a 22" flat Easton CT-2 carbon bar for a few months before switching to the just-as-flat, wide & sweeping Flat Tracker, and the change made a noticible positive difference.

    Gratuitous bike computer shot. You can read my mini-review on the uber-cool VDO MC1.0 wireless altimeter by clicking on 'My Profile' .

    I originally built the bike with the AD-12 over the Fox Float AVA. However, this summer I installed Fox's new Float AVA ProPedal for about a month and came away displeased for various reasons. Speaking to Fox about my criticisms of their shock, it seemed that between the high leverage ratio of the suspension and my 205 pounds + gear, I was simply overpowering the ProPedal damping system.

    I returned to the AD-12 and was once again delighted with suspension performance.

    The shock is mounted to the "new" suspension links in the 4.5" position. The upper mounting holes reduce travel to 3.75", suited to really heavy riders and maybe to racers. The original 5" links, contrary to what some have written, do indeed work

    just fine.

    I'm convinced this bike likes a rising rate of an air shock. The AD-12, in its largest air chamber setting, soaks up big hits and rarely bottoms. It does need a lot of compression damping (silver screw dialed down in photo) to cope with the 4.5" of travel. The very linear AVA shock, on the other hand, had non-adjustable compression damping and bottomed a little too much for my tastes, even in the smallest air chamber setting.

    I've been hearing good things about the Progressive 5th Element Air on this frame, which will be an option on the '04 Hollowpoints, but honestly, the suspension doesn't need the hocus-pocus of stable platform shocks to perform well. It's great with a simple, service-friendly shock like the AD-12.

    Avid 185 doing duty up front on the post-mount X-Vert.

    Real Designs made some durable, light front hubs. This one spent a year each on my Joshua and my NRS before making the move to the Hollowpoint.

    Specs are:

  7. 19" Hollowpoint Expert frame
    - Cane Creek AD-12 shock
    - DW Link 4.5" (w/ optional 3.75" position)
  8. Rohloff Speedhub Drivetrain
    - Disc Brake Speedhub w/ external shifter, speedbone
    - Rohloff tensioner and chainguide
    - LX 571 crank /ES70 bottom bracket / Salsa 36T chainring
    - 15T cog
    - Velocity Aero Heat rim
  9. Manitou X-Vert 105mm w/ TPC+
  10. 185/165 Avid discs / Avid Mag levers
  11. Titec Big Al stem & Flat Tracker bar / Thomson post / LP Composites bar ends
  12. Real Designs front hub laced to Sun DS1-XC
  13. WTB Mutanoiraptor Laser 2.4 front / Continental Traction Pro 2.0 rear
  14. FSA Orbit ZS headset / Shimano 535 SPD's / WTB Rocket Saddle / ODI grips
  15. Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 06-03-2006 at 08:05 AM.

  16. #7
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    Did you just cut and paste these posts? Love seeing these photos. How heavy is the speedhub btw?

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    Yep, pretty much a cut 'n paste job. The html tags copied right over without any modification.

    By my best guess, the Speedhub adds between 1 to 1.5 pounds to the bike's weight over an XT drivetrain. I never put one on a scale, but the figures I've seen are ~2000g for a disc brake ready Speedhub vs. ~1600g for the XT components it replaces.

    Sheldon Brown posted this article last month:

    Living with the Speedhub

  18. #9
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    Good job! RE: Drilling Out the Cable Stops

    Nate,

    Thanks so much for sharing the helpful info & pictures and also moving you posts to the new forum. I especially like your "Drilling Out the Cable Stops" section - so much so that I'm attempting the same (well, actually by LBS, not myself) with my brandnew frame ('04 Azonic Saber), whose toptube stops look similar to yours (these "3-in-1" thinggies). When done, maybe i'll post some pictures.

    I have one question... In the picture shown below, where you zip-tie'ed your cables/housings, are they tied loosely or tightly? Meaning, are they loose enough so that the cables/housings can slide back-and-forth with rear-shock compression movements, or are they tight enough to immobilize the cables/housings (so that compression movements only bend the cables/housings in a space between seattube and seatstays)?




    Thanks again for sharing your great idea (along with helpful pictures & how-to's)!
    - PiroChu
    Last edited by PiroChu; 11-11-2004 at 04:37 PM.

  19. #10
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    They're snug enough to prevent any housing movement under normal conditions (suspension compression), but not so tight as to bind the housing completely immobile, eat into the outer cover, or force an unnatural bend once past the stop.

    Here's a photo of the "cleaned up" tie job. There's still room for improvement, as my shorts every now and then snag on the exposed ends.

    Last edited by Speedub.Nate; 06-03-2006 at 08:17 AM.

  20. #11
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    Here's my 1st attempt...

    Hi Nate,

    With my new frame, this was my (1st) attempt at your full-housing conversion idea, and here's what I did...

    1. I had the derailleur cable stops nicely drilled out (1st & 2nd pic)
    Luckily, Jon Swanson at Cupertino Bike Shop was nice enough to do this for me.

    2. I placed some pieces of electric tape inside the drilled out cable stops so that the rough edges (I could also probably smooth it out a bit more) won't bite/catch the housing.

    3. I copied your tying method of having 2 small zip-ties both put through the one center (rear brake) housing on the toptube. (1st pic)

    4. I also filed down and rounded the corners of cut zip-tie edges so that hopefully my legs & shorts won't get nicked.


    Also, thankfully my new frame mounts all 3 cable on the top side of the toptube, so I can finally have all 3 cables from the handlebar freely swing/come "around" the headtube. (3rd pic)
    It's just that I really hated how my previous frame had the rear-drlr cable mounted on the drive-side wall of the toptube, forcing a tight S-shaped bend of rear-drlr cable at the headtube area, as well as forcing the cable to rub on the driveside of the headtube.

    While I'm really happy with how the front area looks, the cables have to "cross" back at some point, of course, so I put a narrow "X" behind the seatpost. (4th pic)
    The position of the quick-release collar lever made determining the location of a "X" kinda tricky, too.

    Although I was initially afraid that this wouldn't be a good idea, this actually turned out to be functionally working fine so far (nothing got snagged/caught on my 1st test ride today), so I guess I'm OK for now. But I'm also a person who can spend hours thinking about "routing" of the cables, so I'll probably try some other different routing ideas in the near future.

    Thanks again for sharing your post on this topic,
    - PiroChu
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PiroChu; 11-14-2004 at 11:33 PM.

  21. #12
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    Mmmm... are those the mint flavored Clif Bars? I haven't tried one of those yet.

    Looks good. I'll bet you can get rid of the lower zip tie on your chainstay (the one nearest to the rear derailleur) without any problem.

    Also, I can't tell for sure, but are you using 4mm housing? It looks a little skinny compared to the brake line. The chainsaw file dimension I gave was assuming 5mm housing diameters.

    Some have suggested, as an alternative to the zip ties, using heat shrink tubing and cramming that into the stops/guides. Haven't tried it myself, but it would present a cleaner finish.

    All in all your job looks good. Hope it has the desired effect, and nice work finding a shop willing to give you a hand.

  22. #13
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    Idea! shorts-snagging zip-tie's

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedüb Nate
    Here's a photo of the "cleaned up" tie job. There's still room for improvement, as my shorts every now and then snag on the exposed ends.
    Nate,

    This is not a big deal at all, but I just re-did my zip-tie's on the toptube last night, and wanted to share how I did them this time. Yes, I'm still with your "tie 2 cables together by sharing a middle cable" program. But now I thought, "If I have all the zip-tie tips to come out pointing towards the toptube & resting on the toptube, these tips won't snag my shorts." (So, now it's "under then over", instead of "over then under", while wrapping a zip-tip around the cables.) I haven't actually gone out on a test ride yet, but I think (hope) it'll snag less. What do you think?

    Thanks,
    - PiroChu
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by PiroChu; 12-08-2004 at 03:19 PM.

  23. #14
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    Nice. Now I know what I'm gonna do to kill some time to-wet-night.

  24. #15
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    Hey anybody got any suggestion on how to route the rear der. cable. I have a lot of problems with Ghost shifting.

    Right now I have mine (looking from the back of the bike) running past the right side of the seat post and it seems like when the rear triangle compresses it add's slack to the cable and shifts the rear der. I have tried it with minimal slack in the cable housing at that point and with a med. amount and with a lot of slack and I keep getting the same results.

    Any help/pictures would be appreciated.

  25. #16
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    That's just not a problem I've run into with the Speedhub -- internal indexing has its advantages -- but that's not to say I haven't dealt with it on previous bikes.

    More housing between the main frame and rear triangle is better than less, because it'll change shape less.

    If your shop offers a choice, you might look at different brands of SIS housings and find a "softer" one that bends with less resistance. This is the perfect location to run Nokon beads, if you were so inclined.

    If you're running a Shimano derailleur, Avid's Roll-a-majig has worked wonders for my shifting, and I've installed them on every derailleur setup I've worked on in the past four of five years.

    Full length housing is almost sure to cure this, but it's a big step if you have to start drilling out the cable stops. A half step approach would be to run full length just from the main frame to the rear mech, using zip ties to see if it cures your problem. This ghost shifting plagued the NRS's (again, I was immune), but a full length run along the shock stay did the trick for a number of riders.

  26. #17
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    What I wouldn't give for a speedhub.....

    I love my IH but I have NEVER been happy with the rear der. shifting. I may take the plunge and run full length housing but I'm not sure yet. I'll try doing it just on the rear traiangle for now that. Thats a good idea.


    PS. that link that MTBR add's to the post for the link to Jenson is scary!!!!





    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    That's just not a problem I've run into with the Speedhub -- internal indexing has its advantages -- but that's not to say I haven't dealt with it on previous bikes.

    More housing between the main frame and rear triangle is better than less, because it'll change shape less.

    If your shop offers a choice, you might look at different brands of SIS housings and find a "softer" one that bends with less resistance. This is the perfect location to run Nokon beads, if you were so inclined.

    If you're running a Shimano derailleur, Avid's Roll-a-majig has worked wonders for my shifting, and I've installed them on every derailleur setup I've worked on in the past four of five years.

    Full length housing is almost sure to cure this, but it's a big step if you have to start drilling out the cable stops. A half step approach would be to run full length just from the main frame to the rear mech, using zip ties to see if it cures your problem. This ghost shifting plagued the NRS's (again, I was immune), but a full length run along the shock stay did the trick for a number of riders.

  27. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stosh
    What I wouldn't give for a speedhub.....
    You mean, what you wouldn't give other than $800? :P

    Quote Originally Posted by stosh
    I love my IH but I have NEVER been happy with the rear der. shifting. I may take the plunge and run full length housing but I'm not sure yet. I'll try doing it just on the rear traiangle for now that. Thats a good idea.
    As a trial, you can run full length using zip ties (bypassing the cable stops altogether). But I'll bet running just the second half will be effective.


    Quote Originally Posted by stosh
    PS. that link that MTBR add's to the post for the link to Jenson is scary!!!!
    It's all perspective. All ads pale in comparison to Britney's wet, purple ass in the banner that keeps popping up next to these threads.


  28. #19
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    Yeah $800 is a lot of money....

    Thats a good idea too running the cable.

    I wonder what kind of people fall for thoes question/game ads?




    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate
    You mean, what you wouldn't give other than $800? :P



    As a trial, you can run full length using zip ties (bypassing the cable stops altogether). But I'll bet running just the second half will be effective.




    It's all perspective. All ads pale in comparison to Britney's wet, purple ass in the banner that keeps popping up next to these threads.


  29. #20
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    This forum, and Nate's posts, are fast becoming the unofficial FAQ/General tips for installing Rohloff's on bikes. I just finished putting mine on a FS bike (Nicolai Heluis FR). However, there seems to be a problem.

    The shifter shifts contrary to what it should. In the sense, the gears become harder when going from 14-1 and not the other way, which is the "correct" way. I don't think it's going to have an effect on the functionality of the hub, but I would like to straighten it out. Problem is, the instructions aren't that well written. I thought I followed them ok, but apprently not.

    I know it's basic troubleshooting, but any pointers?

  30. #21
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    It's as simple as reversing the cables coming out of the shifter (yeah, right... nothing is "simple" about doing anything with the cables on a Speedhub).

    Rohloff intends '1' to be the low gear and '14' to be the high gear, which results in SRAM-like shifting.

    I have mine set up reverse -- throttle style -- so that twisting towards me changes to a higher gear, i.e. goes faster.

    The choice is yours.

    BTW, Rohloff's official FAQ doesn't have pics of Britney's wet back.

  31. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate

    BTW, Rohloff's official FAQ doesn't have pics of Britney's wet back.
    This is true - a whole new meaning to bike porn. As also illustrated by the illustrated by the Drunk Cyclist from Flag, AZ (www.drunkcyclist.com - not for viewing at work)

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    This may come as a shock that someone is posting on such an old thread but i'm just wanting to say thank you. I'm currently building up an old hardtail and i have bought a frame that is a few years back dated and has split cable mounts (even to the rear disc brake mounts) Disgusted at the fact i was going to be cable tieing all over the place i am very glad to stumble across this nice little guide on drilling out the guides. I share the love for full cable housing and on other bikes it hasn't been a problem with split cable guides not being used becuase they have run underneath the top tube (i will be drilling these out now aswell) but on this old thing they're on the toptube and it would just look ugly with un used cable guides and cable fastened next to them. This has made my day!!

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    You're welcome. This is still one of my favorite threads!

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