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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    You're another that refuses to take any input, the only answer you allow is "Shimano sucks, buy a Rolhoff."
    I never said that.

    I still use a Shimano hub.

    I say that a Shimano IGH is designed as a Pavement product with a limit to it's torque input.
    Just read the Shimano web site.

    I say that if you want an IGH that is designed to use as a MTB , buy one that is designed for that.

    For the price , the Alfine is a very good product if used in right circumstance.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  2. #102
    Frt Range, CO
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    It's clear from the Rolhoff threads here that they're no walk in the park. Questionable quality and a very high out-of-box failure (2%~10% depending on if it's an ex-Rolhoff or current employee reporting). I stay away from Rolhoff threads now because when this fact is pointed out, you Rolhoff fan-bois go nuts.

    So choose your poison, no IGH is perfect, some cost less than others. Those with mechanical abilities get Shimano hubs to do amazing things, others that lack said skills suffer and are forced to enter the Rolhoff zone....

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Those with mechanical abilities get Shimano hubs to do amazing things...
    Still waiting for you to elaborate on that meaningless statement.

  4. #104
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    fellsbiker, would you answer my question here about shift indicator and shifter position? Trying to help.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  5. #105
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    Yes my shifter was always in 6th gear when calibrating the yellow dots. This procedure is very simple and impossible to mess up. 6th gear is the only 'middle' gear that's marked on the shifter indicator. So it's painfully simple to make sure it's in 6th gear, then go adjust your dots.

    If adjusting the yellow dots is what pursuiter means when he refers to "mechanical abilities", then I must be a straight up genius to be able to adjust a pair of derailers, which is a much more difficult than the Alfine yellow dots.

  6. #106
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    Ok. I felt compelled to ask after encountering someone who didn't know about the notch. I don't believe anything is impossible to screw up, I write software for a living.

    I don't know what the heck you're doing wrong, but five repeats is fűcked up. I'm riding a second hand 8 speed hub so I can't comment on the 11. I'm using a 1.625 input ratio on a fat bike (so, 29er). I pay extremely close attention to treating the hub like a manual transmission on a car - I tend to shift after the very bottom of a pedal down stroke.

    The only thing I can comment on is the pawl design of the Shimano hubs (do some digging) is this:

    ಠ_ಠ

    ...and the price of a Rohloff:

    ಠ_ಠ
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Yes my shifter was always in 6th gear when calibrating the yellow dots. This procedure is very simple and impossible to mess up. 6th gear is the only 'middle' gear that's marked on the shifter indicator. So it's painfully simple to make sure it's in 6th gear, then go adjust your dots.

    If adjusting the yellow dots is what pursuiter means when he refers to "mechanical abilities", then I must be a straight up genius to be able to adjust a pair of derailers, which is a much more difficult than the Alfine yellow dots.
    Forgive me for not wading through the whole of this thread, I came into it about halfway, but I want to ask you a question or two if I may? especially as - if you read my first post, I have had a few small problems too. I kinda bought it thinking it was a 'perfect gearing system', like you could just do whatever you wanted with the lever, at any time. However, from what the guys on here say, you have to 'look after the system'. It seems upshifting tends to be ok pretty much, but downshifts have to be accompanied with a fractional reduction of pedalling effort to enable the IGH to operate. So, when you used the Alfine 11, tell me about how you operated the control lever. Like did you ever operate it while pedalling under pressure? if so, what kind of pressure? like, were you pushing hard up a steep hill? Any insight whatsoever that may help me to understand what went wrong, I don't want to end up with a faulty unit. So, please, tell me all you can about how you used the system, especially under what conditions downshifts were undertaken. Thanks.

  8. #108
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    Early on, i would try some gentle shifts under pressure. But after the first one failed, i really babied all the rest. I would stop pedaling with one foot up and one foot down, shift, then keep pedaling. But because the shifts are nearly instant, you barley have to stop at all. And the hub has instant engagement too which also speeds the whole process up. My problem had nothing to do with shifting. My failures from what I can remember, all happened while I was simply riding around in 2nd gear.
    I would imagine that shifting under force would just accelerate the hub's failure. But they shift so quickly, that as I said, you really don't lose any momentum at all, stopping for an instant, shifting, then resuming your pedal stroke.

    ALSO I'm still waiting for pursuiter to elaborate on what this means:
    Those with mechanical abilities get Shimano hubs to do amazing things, others that lack said skills suffer and are forced to enter the Rolhoff zone....

  9. #109
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
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    translate...I am amazing...you others numbskulls have to resort to a better product

    Sorry, should have restrained myself.

  10. #110
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    I ran across an interesting graphic recently and I wish I could find it. It showed an exploded view of the alfine hub and how each set of gears works. If I remember correctly, there are 3 sets of planetary gears that actuate off cams on the spindle when the shifter puts a gear pawl in place. 1,2,3 are actuated off 3 separate cams, 4 is a direct drive gear and there is a ring gear that puts all of them into overdrive. Actually, I'm not sure that's completely accurate because I think 5 is the direct drive. But anyway that's not the point. The point is the cam actuation.

    One thing I noticed on my A8 is that the cone nut and cone retainer nut were never properly tightened at the factory. And I don't have a cone wrench. So once in a while I've had to play with the nuts to put them back in place properly after performing maintenance, messing with the wheel off the bike, etc. If I forget to do this, the hub shell will have some play left/right on the axle.

    When that happens, its possible that if the shell/gear sets are not properly located over the axle cams, damage can occur to the pawls. I also imagine there are more of these pawls/cams crammed into the 11 speed because there are more gears and axle width is the same as the A8. Smaller pawls/cams are probably more susceptible to damage with improper cone nut placement because they're just plain smaller.

    This is a shot in the dark, but probably worth looking at when it comes to these gear issues. Yesterday I had some clicking noises in 4th gear when mashing on the pedals which went away after I adjusted the cone nut properly.

  11. #111
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    I haven’t replied to this post for a while but I thought all of you may be interested in some of the observations I have made with both of my Alfine 11 hubs (one for commuting and one for mtb riding). My experiences may shed some light on some of the problems that have been reported with the hub.

    When I first put the Alfine 11 onto my commuter (44:20 ratio) it worked fine until a few weeks later. Then I lost my 11th gear. The rest of the gears worked fine, but not 11- the hub would just stay in 10th gear even when the shifter was in its 11 slot. No efforts with the cable, torque nut tightening etc worked. Since it was my commuting bike I wasn’t too concerned that I may end up with an Alfine 10 equipped bike.

    However, after I gave the hub its first oil change, and about 6 months after riding with the hub, I started to get the 11th hub back. It would often slip or try to shift back to 10 (an unpleasant experience) but it was there. After another month the hub shifted into the 11th gear without any trouble and has worked perfectly ever since.

    I am now encountering a similar problem with my mtb Alfine 11 hub that I fitted 6 months ago (32:21 ratio). The hub seems to be very sensitive to cable tension – two weeks ago, any downshift (but not upshifting) into 6th gear would cause a lot of slipping and free spinning of the hub. So I played with the cable tension until it went away. The next ride however resulted in the same problem for the 2nd gear and I promptly retensioned it back out. I plan to take the bike out for another ride soon to see if this is a more long term solution. I am not concerned about the Alfine 11 hub on my mtb, as this is similar to what happened with my commuter.

    However this has gotten me thinking that my problem may actually be related to the breaking in of the gears in the hub (which occurs with all IGHs). The Alfine 11s seem to be very sensitive to cable tension (even when the yellow dots are lined up), and so they may be initially at risk have lost gears/slipping issues until the gears are worn enough to accommodate a bit of play in the cable tension. So perhaps patience is the best solution?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinchphlat View Post
    So perhaps patience is the best solution?
    You are an accommodating person. When it comes being that way with people, cheers

    When it comes to products, I think break-in time is a bunch of ********. Yeah, there may be reasons for it, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

    I've experienced exactly what you describe. I think the Alfine hub is pretty good with the major exception of the pawl design. This is a tough gig because most manual transmissions have a much more involved shifter that can move in several directions and receive cooperation from an independently controlled clutch. With an Alfine, all you're doing is rotating a dial to try and achieve both the shifter and the clutch action in one literally unintelligently (there is no more thinking behind it than a thumb) driven motion.

    That said, there shouldn't be a "neutral" gear when the shifting interface doesn't intentionally afford its selection. No amount of patience will ever put an "N" for neutral on your shifter.

    I'd bet a case of beer that the Di2 Alfine stuff coming out is going to be a lot more accurate. It is simply the most persnickety sensitive cable actuated anything I've encountered.

    It's just weird to me, that so much clever stuff (I mean the silent clutch freewheel? Hell yes) would go into a device, only to have it hampered by one bad design detail.

    I'd be interested to see a pawl design using rare earth magnets - you slide a powerful magnet along a shaft on the inside of a bunch of pawl sets, and otherwise sprung-inward pawls extend forcefully in accord with the magnet position. The inward spring of each pawl would be relatively weak, so if you're exerting heavy pedal pressure while trying to downshift, the engaged pawl will fail to release (as is the case now with Alfine hubs, where you have to back off a bit). However, a major difference is there would be another pawl deployed, waiting, and you'd hear a sort of very-slow-freewheel-ticking sound until you backed off the pedals. The worst that would happen when the cable gets out of tune is you'd hear some clicking of a neighboring pawl.

    If I ever get the design off the ground, I'll share information. Just too much stuff I want to get done first (and not enough money to do it with), so I'll deal with the finicky nature of my Alfine until then.

    They pissed me off so bad this summer I tried derailleurs again. NOPE, those piss me off worse still.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    I'd be interested to see a pawl design using rare earth magnets
    Why not go for depleted uranium while you're at it? ;-)

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    Why not go for depleted uranium while you're at it? ;-)
    I will totally make the first ever nuclear powered bamboo bike, a true abomination of conflicting interests.

    There may be a waiver to sign.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  15. #115
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    well i just got my hub back from warranty, shimano just replaced it with a new one after a few phone calls, so if anyone is after a cheap new 11speed hub pm me
    Josh

  16. #116
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    No thanks, 5 is plenty for me.

  17. #117
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    yeah 1 was to many for me haha
    Josh

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post

    I'd be interested to see a pawl design using rare earth magnets - you slide a powerful magnet along a shaft on the inside of a bunch of pawl sets, and otherwise sprung-inward pawls extend forcefully in accord with the magnet position. The inward spring of each pawl would be relatively weak, so if you're exerting heavy pedal pressure while trying to downshift, the engaged pawl will fail to release (as is the case now with Alfine hubs, where you have to back off a bit). However, a major difference is there would be another pawl deployed, waiting, and you'd hear a sort of very-slow-freewheel-ticking sound until you backed off the pedals. The worst that would happen when the cable gets out of tune is you'd hear some clicking of a neighboring pawl.

    If I ever get the design off the ground, I'll share information. Just too much stuff I want to get done first (and not enough money to do it with), so I'll deal with the finicky nature of my Alfine until then.
    The German internal gearbox "G-Boxx 2" used magnets just as you describe.

    Universal Transmissions GmbH

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by evrac View Post
    The German internal gearbox "G-Boxx 2" used magnets just as you describe.

    Universal Transmissions GmbH
    That doesn't surprise me, but they won't sell me one. I've asked twice over the last year.
    Latitude: 44.93 N

  20. #120
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    Enlighten me, how do you calculate comparable gearing for this hub? I currently run a 1x9 setup that is an XT 32-11 cassette and a 34T.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomz View Post
    Enlighten me, how do you calculate comparable gearing for this hub? I currently run a 1x9 setup that is an XT 32-11 cassette and a 34T.
    Gear-calculator
    Last edited by irrah; 07-26-2012 at 01:03 PM. Reason: link

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by kustomz View Post
    Enlighten me, how do you calculate comparable gearing for this hub? I currently run a 1x9 setup that is an XT 32-11 cassette and a 34T.
    http://www.fellsbiker.com/docs/alfine_11_ratios.pdf

  23. #123
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    Thanks!

  24. #124
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    My 5 cents worth of how I've found the alfine 11. Initially I loved it, then struggled with it, now after a warranty fix I like it again - lots. In winter time it is great to commute on. Basically It has been an up and down road with the alfine 11spd for me. Bought one of the first models produced and it ran nicely for a couple of months but then started leaking oil. To/Fro with shimano, new seals etc before they finally agreed that there was an issue with the initial run and completely replaced the internals. Since then it has been bulletproof. Wickedly good for winter commuting...A mate has a later version and he has not had the same issues I faced.He raves about it...

    Yes it's heavy but I haven't had an issue with flats on the rear even when running it on the trails. Runs stans in the rear just in case so a small puncture won't mean a whole tube change. Easier than an 8 to change a tyre. was bulletproof in a 500km 3day off road tour in particularly harsh conditions. All cassette/derailleur riders were having gear selection issues after 1st day. Alfine was fine the whole way through...

  25. #125
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    one last thing I forgot, chainline seems to be real important. It seems to run better with the rear cog reversed to get a chainline closer to 50mm as I run this on gt Peace 29er mtb. Don't think that would be an issue with a commuter.

    However I think shimano are shooting themselves in the foot with the narrow chainline (42.7mm) on an alfine. Is this because it's mean for a commuter/touring bike ? have been trying to convert one to a belt drive in a 29er frame and the conclusion I've come to is time to get a custom frame

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