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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Well if you don't want to spend a lot of mental energy on it, then this probably isn't the ideal thread for you.
    I'm taking the time to participate in this thread because if only folks that have problems speak up it sounds like every Alfine 11 is doomed to fail. OTOH - that's not what I'm reading on the various forums and blogs.

    And that's not my experience.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  2. #52
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    My experience with 5 Alfine 11's is that every Alfine IS doomed to fail. No one wishes this wasn't the case more than me. But even Shimano said the gear ratio is too low and that's what is killing the drives. My gear ratios is/was 32/20 (1.6) and then 36/22 (1.64). All I can say to people who haven't had a failure yet is good luck!

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    My experience with 5 Alfine 11's is that every Alfine IS doomed to fail. No one wishes this wasn't the case more than me. But even Shimano said the gear ratio is too low and that's what is killing the drives. My gear ratios is/was 32/20 (1.6) and then 36/22 (1.64). All I can say to people who haven't had a failure yet is good luck!
    I'm sorry you have had some problems, but even 5 failures on one bike for one rider are statistically insignificant.

    It's totally possible the problems are related to you or your bike or you have extremely bad luck.

    Either way my hub continues to work just fine.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  4. #54
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    Well based on all of the other failure reports, I don't think it's bad luck. I've also contacted other bike shops that have told me about 20% of their 11's have failed.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Well based on all of the other failure reports, I don't think it's bad luck. I've also contacted other bike shops that have told me about 20% of their 11's have failed.
    Let's assume 20% is accurate....then 80% of the hubs are trucking along just fine. So if you got 5 bad hubs in a row that would be really bad luck.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  6. #56
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    Well thats a bit of an over-simplification. But even with a 20% failure rate, that still gives me only a 0.032% chance of getting 5 duds in a row.

  7. #57
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    Does it ever occur to Fellsbiker that his LBS is clueless? He's also over at bikeforum.com where all the Shimano haters are out in full force. He and some cat named "Don in Austin" have ground through 5 hubs each and they've convinced the bikeforum mob that Shimano is un-fit to sell IGHs. Then they go for an Alfine 8 and a derailliuer, too funny.

    And the fact that sooo many people are not having issues, does that make them question their LBS? Nope, instead they claim their experience is the only real representation of an Alfine 11, it's just a matter of time before everyone's fails.

    You close your mind, you get the result you're hoping for.

  8. #58
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    You seem to gloss right over the fact that shimano said my 32/20 gear ratio is too low, and that it will tear through every replacement they send me. And that they told me the exact opposite of that for the first 4 failure, and after the 5th, that's what they say. There are a LOT of failure reports all over the internet, outside of my few threads. Oh boy now I get to go replay to your thread on the other forum too.

  9. #59
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    "Shimano haters"
    By "shimano haters", you mean people that have had Alfine 11 failures, and are annoyed at shimano about how they were up-selling this hub's abilities early on, only to backpedal that after they started failing regularly.

    You make it sound like we all had an ax to grind against shimano, and bought this $750+ hub so we could use it to talk **** about shimano on the internet.

  10. #60
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    Your complaints about up selling are silly. Shimano never said the Alfine 8 or Alfine 11 are MTB hubs. OTOH, plenty of users are getting more than two rides on an Alfine 11 and have used them for months on MTBs with no failures (with a primary gear you claim is not allowed).

    You've never tried a single suggestion recommended by experienced users here. You and Don have all the answers, I get it. As I've said in the past, "IGHs are not for the naive or uninitiated." You are living proof.

  11. #61
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    But 20% is a very high fail rate imo. I wonder what other product would have sucha fail rate and not put the maker out of business. For a complex part like this (and expensive) Its totally unacceptable with a 20% fail rate. 2 yes, 20 no.

    I have a proposition to shimano, instead of just accepting the fact that 20% break down, why even make those 20%, why don't they just make the remaining 80% that is working and and save money?

    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  12. #62
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    I doubt the failure rate is anywhere near 20% if it is installed properly. Shimano would be losing money hand-over-fist on warranty replacement costs if that was the case.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wryknow View Post
    I doubt the failure rate is anywhere near 20% if it is installed properly. Shimano would be losing money hand-over-fist on warranty replacement costs if that was the case.
    I doubt anyone outside of Shimano's warranty department actually knows what the failure rate of these hubs is.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  14. #64
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    i had a scare with mine on the weekend, all going well then it started skipping and jumping gears
    pulled over to have a look all seemed ok, checked the dots were still aligned and all was well but kept jumping
    pulled it apart today and couldnt see anything wrong but when i put it back together it all works well haha... but now i dont trust it
    Josh

  15. #65
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    I sucks to not be able to trust gear.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by car bone View Post
    I sucks to not be able to trust gear.
    That's why it pays not to be paranoid. I don't stress about my Alfine 11. I use it for bikepacking so if it breaks I might be a 30km walk back to help. I could spend my time stressing about that or I could just get on with the ride.

    I do the later. Lots of people are riding them without problems including me.

    I could rip a derailleur off a bike way out in the boondocks or taco a wheel on any bike. Lots of potential for walking back to civilization even if your bike doesn't have an IGH.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #67
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    The problem is using a product for the wrong application.
    If you check at the shimanonweb page , alfine product is for commuter, city , pavement application. I wouldn't hold anything against Shimano if i put an Alfine hub on a MTB and it fails later , it's not made / designed for that application.
    Do you see Dura Ace stuff on the mud ?
    It's not designed to be used there so no big surprise.


    If you want to use an IGH on an MTB application , buy a real IGH that is designed for MTB application , or be aware that your Pavement IGH might fail on MTB application.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    The problem is using a product for the wrong application.
    If you check at the shimanonweb page , alfine product is for commuter, city , pavement application. I wouldn't hold anything against Shimano if i put an Alfine hub on a MTB and it fails later , it's not made / designed for that application.
    I agree with you to a point. These hubs were not designed for MTBing. If any of my Alfine's die in a MTB I won't blame Shimano.

    The thing is Alfine 8's seem to be holding up great in MTBs. I have one that's 4yrs old and has been abused in every way possible in my Pugsley.

    So far my Alfine 11 is holding up great as well for MTBing and bikepacking. I'm not ready to suggest that it's some sort of certainty it's going to fail despite being used for a purpose other than city use.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's why it pays not to be paranoid. I don't stress about my Alfine 11. I use it for bikepacking so if it breaks I might be a 30km walk back to help. I could spend my time stressing about that or I could just get on with the ride.

    I do the later. Lots of people are riding them without problems including me.

    I could rip a derailleur off a bike way out in the boondocks or taco a wheel on any bike. Lots of potential for walking back to civilization even if your bike doesn't have an IGH.
    A wheel can be overbuilt to guard against failure. The risk to derailler bikes are well known. Not to mention a century of research and development into a part that has changed very little. A mysterious hub with all internal parts, that might fail at a moments notice? This would put me off as well. I think the concern is well founded here. He's not the only user reporting issues with gears failing on the Alfine 11.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    A wheel can be overbuilt to guard against failure. The risk to derailler bikes are well known. Not to mention a century of research and development into a part that has changed very little. A mysterious hub with all internal parts, that might fail at a moments notice? This would put me off as well. I think the concern is well founded here. He's not the only user reporting issues with gears failing on the Alfine 11.
    The reality is that you can taco wheel, rip off a derailleur, have pawls that won't engage, etc... It happens. An IGH can break as well.

    Folks have broken Rohloffs and Alfine 8s. Even though the general consensus is that they are a good choice for a MTB.

    I use all of these parts. You can be aware that something can fail without obsessing about it.

    If using an Alfine 11 really freaks you out than I'd suggest you don't buy one.

    Part of the reason I am running an Alfine 11 is to see what actually happens when it's used hard in a MTB. So far so good....
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  21. #71
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    I think the most important thing that everyone is trying to communicate here is the rate of failure that is the cause of concern. The other systems you mention did not have many reports of failure. It's like comparing a Yugo to a BMW. Sure they are both cars and will fail eventually, but one is certainly less well engineered in comparison and will fail sooner.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    I think the most important thing that everyone is trying to communicate here is the rate of failure that is the cause of concern. The other systems you mention did not have many reports of failure. It's like comparing a Yugo to a BMW. Sure they are both cars and will fail eventually, but one is certainly less well engineered in comparison and will fail sooner.
    So far I haven't seen anyone establish a rate of failure. How many of the Alfine 11's sold so far have failed? We also don't have an understanding of what caused the failures that have been reported. Manufacturing problems? Setup problems? User issues?

    How do we account for the hubs that are doing fine? Is it because they are defect free from the factory? Is it because they are being used by someone else?

    I'm all for trying to understand what's going on and seeing if we have a real problem or not. And if there is a problem what is it specifically?

    What I have an issue with is fear based reactionary hype like telling people the first steep climb in 2nd gear your Alfine 11 will blow up. Mine didn't. Okay....then you better worry it will blow up soon.

    That's not particularly useful.

    I'm not sure how many Alfine 8's have failed. I've read about more than a few. It seems to me like there was a time when people were dissing the Alfine 8 for MTBing and that has passed - I presume because more and more people had successes and the reality of the situation became apparent.

    Just my personnel opinion, but I feel like there is freak out going on about the Alfine 11 that may well pass in time as well. I have a Rohloff sitting in my garage that I was going to use for my bikepacking rig, but decided to use an Alfine 11 because I wanted to see what will happen.

    It only takes a few people complaining loudly to create what looks like a huge problem online. Especially when other folks reporting positive experiences get dismissed as failures that just haven't happened yet.

    Ultimately if you don't want to use an Alfine 11 for fear of failure don't. Get a Rohloff or an Alfine 8 or stick with derailleurs.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    I think the most important thing that everyone is trying to communicate here is the rate of failure that is the cause of concern.
    That rate of failure is caused by using a product in an application that it's not designed for.

    I'm *****ing Shimano IGH because I'm on my 3rd hub in the last 5-6 years on my commuter , I wouldn't ***** on Shimano IGH using it on MTB.

    If I was using a Mavic Ksyrium road wheel in a trail , I would not come in forum and moan about how fast it failed.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  24. #74
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    I have replaced an Alfine 8 with an 11 and am very pleased with it. No problems at all in all gears. Measured aproximately 180mm from cable ferule to the inner cable fixing bolt unit and fine tuned on shifter to align the yellow dots in 6th. No shifting problems at all unless you try to shift without taking the pressure off the pedals (as per Shimano instructions). I prefer it to the 8 as it is smoother and seems to have less drag (but had no problems with the 8 really). I also have had a Rohloff for around 7 years without any problems that has been used for x country and again it has a couple of well known quirks such as 7th gear and again it is best to back of the pedal pressure slightly when changing gears. The 8 and 11 alfine have been used for urban stuff on cycleways and our deteriorating minor roads in the UK (full of ruts and potholes from last two winters). I use the Alfine 45t chainset with a 20t rear sprocket...do not know what ratio that gives but no problems heaving through the lower gears on hills provided pedal pressure is backed off on changing gear.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by lesoudeur View Post
    ... unless you try to shift without taking the pressure off the pedals (as per Shimano instructions).
    where did you read that? I could not find it
    tks

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