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  1. #1
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    Various Internal Devices Efficiency.

    THis is probably already listed on a thread somewhere in here.
    Blame me or a not so great search tool.
    Eiher way- here it is again.

    What's The Difference In Speed Between Gearbox Systems? Rohloff, Pinion, Shimano - CyclingAbout

    I'm surprised it's they are as efficient as this shows.
    And surprised that even some lower modes do well.

    I'd be curious to know how their efficiencies change over time.
    Perhaps an Alfine is close to a Rohloff at the start of its life.
    And maybe it has more drag later in its life.

    Ride bikes more than read about them.
    Go pedal.

    -JCB
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    Running is for prey.

  2. #2
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    Wow thanx !

    I would be curious to know the efficiency of a 1X12 drivetrain.
    In fisrt and twelfth , there is a serious chain bent. ( energy loss)
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  3. #3
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    Fokof-
    Funny you mention that. There's a new internal rear hub coming.
    Kindernay.
    Seems like it could compete with Rohloff.

    Kindernay - Kindernay
    A friend is interested in it and is demoing a prototype.
    When I asked why internal had his interest (even though he's already tried such iterations years ago) he mentioned (among other things) harsh chainlines.

    The 1x craze has allowed us to ignore things we used to think we're more important.
    When I ride behind someone with a 1x- you can sometimes really see that bend you're talking about.

    There's a holy grail idea in my head about the perfect internal.
    Like it will never be found but I keep wanting it.

    -JCBs
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  4. #4
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    Good article. I too think it needs 1 x 11 and 1 x 12 comparisons added to be relevant today.

    I'm very curious about the Kindernay. Rohloff's have never really been compelling, for a host of reasons. The simpler, cleaner look and form factor of the Kindernay, along with the hydraulic shifting mechanism and a thru-axle option kinda tie the room together.

    Or so it seems on the surface. Only lots of riding will really show what's what.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Chicken Bones View Post
    Fokof-
    Funny you mention that. There's a new internal rear hub coming.
    Kindernay.
    Seems like it could compete with Rohloff.
    New light weight internal gear hub: Kindernay
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  6. #6
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    I think people are missing something here. The extra drag may be negligible on paper but it's small forces that make most of the difference in cycling. Suppose you're going up a three percent grade. The vector component of yours and the bike's combined weight acting against you as a force might be very small (five pounds?) but it's enough to make a significant difference in the effort you need to expend to keep your speed up. I can fly effortlessly down a three percent grade spinning out my derailleur-equipped bike in its highest gear but I'll slow down considerably going up the same grade.

    If somebody ran behind you pulling at you with five or ten pounds of force you'd feel it. Same if they were pushing you along with the same force as we all know from riding in the wind.

    So if your internally gear hub drops your efficiency by a few percentage points over a derailleur, this is equivalent to another "negligible" force of five pounds or so....which you may not feel on the downhill but definitely can feel going uphill. This is something I learned on the Tour Divide.

    I am not knocking my Rohloff. In fact, I really love it for its other attributes, and, since I am not very fast on any bike, I can live with some inefficiency. The fact that I have something like 2500 miles on my Rohloff with zero maintenance and it's still performing flawlessly cannot be overstated. I've had that thing choked with mud and immersed in creeks.

    But these hubs do have some drag.

    I failed the Tour Divide for other reasons, of course. But the drag and weight from the hub were noticeable on the climbs.

  7. #7
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    Yep , you're right, and I've experienced it too , but I don't make a living winning races , I prefer by a very long shot the advantages over the disadvantages.
    Since you raced with it , I can understand your concerns.

    If you do your next race with a 1X11 or 1X12 , maybe you'll miss your Rohloff on the first mud puddle

    For me , the added weight was THE major concern for me when I bought my first Rohloff.Now , I don't mind , I would NEVER go back to a derailleur system.
    The 2% of lost efficiency over a 3X9 has never bothered me.
    http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf
    (That was in 2001 compared with 3X9 wich has a lot less chain twist)
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  8. #8
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    Various Internal Devices Efficiency.-img_2997.jpgVarious Internal Devices Efficiency.-img_2993.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    Yep , you're right, and I've experienced it too , but I don't make a living winning races , I prefer by a very long shot the advantages over the disadvantages.
    Since you raced with it , I can understand your concerns.

    If you do your next race with a 1X11 or 1X12 , maybe you'll miss your Rohloff on the first mud puddle

    For me , the added weight was THE major concern for me when I bought my first Rohloff.Now , I don't mind , I would NEVER go back to a derailleur system.
    The 2% of lost efficiency over a 3X9 has never bothered me.
    http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf
    (That was in 2001 compared with 3X9 wich has a lot less chain twist)
    I will definitely do the TransSouthdakota next summer. I just don't have the fitness or the time or patience for a 2700 mile race (soon to be 3100 I understand) but I know I can tackle an 800 miler. And if I can get my knee back up to speed I may even try the Dirty Kanza. I will ride a 1x11 setup for the Dirty Kanza ( if I do it) because efficiency is everything if you want to cover 200 miles of gravel in 20 hours or less. For the TransSouthDakota I may stick to my Rohloff-equipped El Mariach Ti. It's a wonderful, reliable, extremely rugged bike. Not to mention my load will be a lot lighter as I won't have to prepare for the same extremes of weather you encounter early on inthe Tour Divide.

    And towns and services are closer together.

  9. #9
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    The Rohloff appeals to me but my eye just can't get used to all that housing hanging off the back.

    One more vanity hurdle I need behind me I suppose.
    --------- __o
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    Running is for prey.

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