Rohloff+disc-blackbox

[Giel]

I am getting a custom Rohloff equipped fatbike build and would like to run discs on it, but without the Rohloff black box. While it works well, the black box is not a very elegant solution.

Please post some pics of your setup of disc-brake rohloffs without the blackbox.

cheers, Giel

[mindraycollector]

Here you go.




Near the hub it is a outer cable with some heat shrink wrap to close it off from the dirt.
Connector is the Rohloff one.

Caps for the cable are now home-made but will be replaced by these stainless steel 3D printed pairs that are currently being made. They have double notches to avoid slippage. This way the black box can still be run if wanted. Just tiewrap these to the cablestops.

[mindraycollector]

Stops should arrive early januari … curious to see wether my measurements where correct.

You should go through this German thread. There are some more images of what you are looking for in there somewhere: ROHLOFF Speedhub TUNING - MTB-News.de - IBC

[Giel]

Thanks mate, just what i was looking for. Since posting my request I have had my frame designed and manufactured, taking a slightly different route from yours. I have put a double cable stop close to the bracket, a bit more to the outside of the horizontal fork legs. This should allow a straight run to the internal shifting mechanism without interfering with the disc. Pics when ready

[gtoscott1970]

mindraycollector - any chance you can take a pic of your hub away from the frame? This post has me wanting to do the same thing to my bike, but it is hard to envision how you accomplished not using the shifter black box from your 2 pics...

I'm not a fan of the shifterbox - I've had it vibrate loose on rides so now I tightened it pretty snug and it can be hard to turn loose with just fingers...

[mindraycollector]

mindraycollector - any chance you can take a pic of your hub away from the frame? This post has me wanting to do the same thing to my bike, but it is hard to envision how you accomplished not using the shifter black box from your 2 pics...


Not exactly off the hub, but hope these images make it more clear for you. Will take some off the hub images when I do a next thorough cleaning. Which, with a Ti Rohloff frame is like … almost never ;-)

You will need 2 rows of tabs though to make this work.

[gtoscott1970]

Mindraycollector - thanks for the additional pics! I can see the solution much better now...

Looks like I need to get the black colored, circular shaped shifter mechanism that the axle plate bolts to? And then I need to run my shifter cables into the circular shaped shifter mechanism. Is your CAD drawing above what will slot into the circular shaped shifter mechanism and are the "double notches" on this part for a Zip Tie to hold the part in place?

How neccessary is your shrink wrap to keep out dirt? It looks like the black circular shaped shifter mechanism on the hub accepts the cable end cap directly so is the shrink wrap just overkill? Will your new double notch cap prevent the need for Shrink wrapping?

I'm thinking I could just run continuous housing from the handlebar shifter to the hub without a cable quick disconnect and zip tie to the frame at random points to keep everything in place. I'd have to make sure I have enough length of housing to make wheel removal possible for flat tire repair...

Thanks again for your advice!

[gtoscott1970]

Thanks mate, just what i was looking for. Since posting my request I have had my frame designed and manufactured, taking a slightly different route from yours. I have put a double cable stop close to the bracket, a bit more to the outside of the horizontal fork legs. This should allow a straight run to the internal shifting mechanism without interfering with the disc. Pics when ready

I look forward to pics to see your solution... In your description above what "bracket" are you referring too - the frame's bottom bracket?

In addition, are the "horizontal fork" legs you reference the Chainstays of the frame or the seatstays of the frame?

[mindraycollector]

First you will need to get one of these:
Rohloff Interne Schaltzugfhrung Achsring komplett - BIKE-COMPONENTS.DE

Then you will notice that the Rohloff cable will be either too short or too long for what you need. Shorter, no problem, longer big problem. Since the cable is narrower then a shifter or brake cable (1,2 mm) and has to be flexible enough. I ended up buying 0,8mm teflon-ish coated steel cable from a airplane webshop. Local and specialized hardware stores don't run them …

Next you will need to empty a can of your favourite beer. Cut it open and make a strip of aluminium that can wrap over the metal part of the rohloff shifter and your outer brake cable that it will connect to. The I shrink wrapped the aluminium tight over the shifter / cable combo and added 2 zipties on both end for extra security.

Then at the other end where the cable connects to your frame, you will notice that under shifter loads a regular cable-end will slip out no matter what you trie with the zip ties. So you can either with epoxy modify one or do something like the CAD drawing which I'm currently waiting for to be finished in stainless steel.

[mindraycollector]

I look forward to pics to see your solution... In your description above what "bracket" are you referring too - the frame's bottom bracket?

In addition, are the "horizontal fork" legs you reference the Chainstays of the frame or the seatstays of the frame?

The bracket thingy where you ziptie a cable to the frame. Don't know what it is called in English.

Chainstays

[mindraycollector]

I'm thinking I could just run continuous housing from the handlebar shifter to the hub without a cable quick disconnect and zip tie to the frame at random points to keep everything in place. I'd have to make sure I have enough length of housing to make wheel removal possible for flat tire repair...

Continuous housing will be a b***h to get the correct cable lengths and tension. On top of this you will have the problem that the shifter box needs 0,1mm cable (0,8 is what I used) and the shifter on your handlebars will need a shimano or sram cable, which are 1,1 or 1,2 mm.

When I remove my wheel I need to cut 2 zipties and undo both rohloff quick release mechanisms.

Hoping that the 3D printed ferrules will allow the usage of something like this: MOWA Cable Guide | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

Should be even easier for changing tires / gears / …

[gtoscott1970]

Continuous housing will be a b***h to get the correct cable lengths and tension. On top of this you will have the problem that the shifter box needs 0,1mm cable (0,8 is what I used) and the shifter on your handlebars will need a shimano or sram cable, which are 1,1 or 1,2 mm.

When I remove my wheel I need to cut 2 zipties and undo both rohloff quick release mechanisms.

Hoping that the 3D printed ferrules will allow the usage of something like this: MOWA Cable Guide | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

Should be even easier for changing tires / gears / …

I was just doing some research online and discovered what you are telling me above about the Rohloff Axlering using 0.9mm cable rather than the traditional 1.1mm shifter cable diameter. This is potentially a show stopper. I'd have to run 0.9mm cable for the full run (handlebar to hub) and use an inline barrell adjuster for tension. 2 problems... not sure 0.9mm cable is strong enough over the full run and not sure if the rohloff handlebar shifter can accomodate 0.9mm cable which could be too small for it to stay in its designated channels in the shifter, plus I'd have to fab up the right diameter cable ends. If I make the conversion to no shifter box, it will probably have to be a solution more like yours given the above obstacles. I've had my hub on 2 different full suspension bikes over the years, so I've gotten pretty good at running new cable lengths.

Thanks again for your help!

[gtoscott1970]

Continuous housing will be a b***h to get the correct cable lengths and tension. On top of this you will have the problem that the shifter box needs 0,1mm cable (0,8 is what I used) and the shifter on your handlebars will need a shimano or sram cable, which are 1,1 or 1,2 mm.

When I remove my wheel I need to cut 2 zipties and undo both rohloff quick release mechanisms.

Hoping that the 3D printed ferrules will allow the usage of something like this: MOWA Cable Guide | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

Should be even easier for changing tires / gears / …

I sent the following to service@rohloff.de we'll see what they come back with?
"Where can I buy 0.9mm cable like used in the Rohloff Axlering?
Is 0.9mm cable compatible with the Rohloff twist shifter assuming the 0.9mm cable had the proper cable end affixed to it?
I'm brainstorming a conversion from and external shifter box to an internal axlering shifter by running continuous housing from twist shifter to hub with an inline barrel adjuster for tension, but I can't find 0.9mm cable anywhere online to test my experiment...
I realize that 0.9mm cable will not be as durable as the standard 1.1mm shifter cable, but am willing to run this risk.
I also realize that I will not be able to remove the rear wheel and carry it away from the bicycle frame with this setup, but as long as I have enough length I should be able to change a rear tire trailside.
Thanks!
ps - I love my hub - been in use for 10yrs now with no troubles!"

[mindraycollector]

They will tell you that the warranty is voided when you run a disc brake setup without a black box. Though that isn't a problem since the age of the hub.

I bought the cable here: Staalkabel 0,8 mm 2 meter met Kunststofmantel - Per stuk
But I am based in Belgium, so I guess you might be better of finding a US based RC store. This type of cable is used for the controls in old skool planes. The newer planes use plastic lines. I knew since I was into RC when I was younger. It is 0,8mm though, but does the job fine thus far.

If you can't find it online, maybe an establish local RC store might still have in their back-stock.

The cable would then need to be encased in lead manually for the shifter though. But you could make a mold by rapid prototyping / 3D printing a Sketchup drawing and then melt some lead soldiers … If you do, please let me know how it worked out.

Love my hub as well. Serial-number 11!

[fokof]

Love my hub as well. Serial-number 11!

You have that hub for how long ?

[mindraycollector]

For about a year now. Picked it up as a second hand hub form a former demo-bike. So it hasn't had crazy miles.

Still miss my trigger shifters though. So can't wait for either Mittelmeyer or another company to release one. Like for example this prototypet: Mountainbike.nl • Toon onderwerp - Nicolai Nucleon E2

On the same Dutch forum there is also this Ti bike: Mountainbike.nl • Toon onderwerp - Custom Ti Fat Rohloff Belt
It features another cool first that I know off: floating Rohloff brake discs. Plus extra clean internal cable routing and a similar shitbox setup as mine.

[gtoscott1970]

Hello Scott,

the 0.9mm cable we use has a life expectancy of approximately 10,000km and as such I am unable to recommend this components use for other applications.

If you wish to go ahead anyway and produce a prototype of your design, then we can supply the cable in desired lengths off the role. This will cost €1.80 per meter but the cable does not have any nipples attached. You would therefore have to braze these on or incorporate clamp-on nipples for your design.

Should you wish to go ahead and order cable, please supply me with your complete contact address and I will ask my colleagues to process a Proforma Invoice for you.

Best Wishes from Fuldatal, Germany.


Stewart Stabik
Sales Manager (English Liaison)
OE Technical Support
Rohloff AG, Germany

[mindraycollector]

So the saga continues.

Got word that my ferrules are printed and on their way.

[mindraycollector]

And the ferrules arrived today. Test-fitted them to the frame and they fit perfectly snug. +1 for vernier calipers!

Just basic phone images for now, but they do show the detail of the printing. And the clean up that is still needed.

Tomorrow will be separating them and polishing them to get rid of the laser sintering marks. At 16g a durable upgrade compared to my hack-job.

[Giel]

Here you go.




Near the hub it is a outer cable with some heat shrink wrap to close it off from the dirt.
Connector is the Rohloff one.

Caps for the cable are now home-made but will be replaced by these stainless steel 3D printed pairs that are currently being made. They have double notches to avoid slippage. This way the black box can still be run if wanted. Just tiewrap these to the cablestops.

Thanks mate! That certainly helped, also the thread on mtb-news.de that you refered me too was inspirational. The lengths some people will go to in their quest for a weightweenie Rohloff. Seeing that made me feel normal again

Anyway, back the topic at hand: It took me a while to get it sorted, but here's how I solved it. I removed the 2 alu tubes that guide the cables out of the internal shifter. Replaced them with 2 60mm brass tubes with a slight recess filed into it at the end where it connects to the hub. This allows you to reuse the black plastic thingy that holds the alu tubes in place. The black plastic "worm" slides right over it with a little persuasion and some grease. This solution means you can do without the extra cablestops and makes removing your wheel easy as can be. Haven't test ridden it yet though..

This is the original setup, as I am sure you know


Test-fitting first brass tube, note that there's a slight bend in it to line it up properly with the cablestops on the rear-end




In my enthusiasm I forgot to take more build pics, so here it is finished Note that the bit of "worm" next to the disc is dead straight and therefore doesn't rub


Plenty of clearance Clarence


In gears 1 and 2 and 13 and 14 the "worms" come a bit closer to the disc, but still don't rub. Shifting action takes the same effort as before. Pending a successful test ride on a bumpy downhill with drops and jumps to really shake it about I suspect this will work properly.

Ah and one of the bike thrown in for good measure



Cheers, Giel

[Giel]

Ah, and the cablestops

[mindraycollector]

Hey Giel,

Your solution is also something I considered, but as you said in the extreme high and low gears you get a spiral effect. With Benelux-sized rotors you should be fine, but I you were to swap your rotors for a bigger diameter if for example you would go to the alps, it might become a problem. That is the only reason I didn't end up choosing for a similar solution. It may be even a problem when you go through rough terrain and it starts to jiggle?

In any case, you could always go for a aluminium plate that clamps between the hub and the frame, which then bends to fit between the plastic “worms” and the disc as an extra layer of protection.

[Giel]

That's true, I run a max of 160mm at the back and 180mm at the front. It would be challenging to apply this solution with 180 at the back. I'll give her this afternoon and of the Belgium Ardennes for the weekend. If it holds up there, it'll be fine. I think the jiggling will not be a problem, the tubes are a tight fit in the hub. Anyway, I'll find out soon enough