Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 57
  1. #1
    singlespeed smash brother
    Reputation: shwinboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    290

    Racing Rolhoff or Alfine 11

    Hi all. I'm finally ready to make the jump to hub gears. I'm prepared to pay the high cost for a rolhoff but I have to say paying half that for an alfine 11 and spending the rest on brake and fork upgrades is attractive. So here's where I'm at.
    I'm mainly a trail rider but do love to enter 100km + enduro events and to shorter dirt crit races. I'm used to riding a 2 x 9 setup (32,22 up front 11-34 cluster) but have found I've wanted some higher gears in some events. The Rolhoff is most attractive for this reason. The other reason I'm leaning to a Rolhoff is durability. I've trawled the net for Alfine 11 reviews and remain unconvinced that it'll stand up to what I want it to do.
    So I ask the learned soles here to either confuse me more or convince me in either direction.

    Do I go the Rolhoff or an Alfine 11 + extra upgrades

    Thanks

  2. #2
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,281
    I can't say I have personal experience withthe alfine11 but from what I have read here about the alfine and learnt from owning a rohloff, I'd recommend the rohloff. Maybe the A8 if you just want to give it a go cheaply first, but it's not necessarily easy to change over to a Rohloff later if you get serious.

  3. #3
    I barf on top tubes
    Reputation: greg w's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    25
    I think a Rohloff would suit you well if purchased in the right configuration. I would shoot for an OEM setup so that you could just release the external mech, the quick release, and change a flat (maybe go tubeless).. Anything more compilcated than that and it will really slow down your flat changing speed. Find a frame with Rohloff specific dropouts, so you do away with monkey bones, speed bones, torque arms and all the extraneous garbabe that goes wth a non OEM setup. This will be extra helpfull on those short dirt crit races. You cant beat the durability of Rohloff for sure.

  4. #4
    will rant for food
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    3,609
    Quote Originally Posted by shwinboy View Post
    I'm used to riding a 2 x 9 setup (32,22 up front 11-34 cluster) but have found I've wanted some higher gears in some events.
    An Alfine isn't going to get you close to that low 22 x 34 gear. If you have the money, pop for the Rohloff to get the wide gear range. I have an Alfine 8 because it is economical, but I am saving my pennies for a Rohloff.
    Disclaimer: I run Regular Cycles (as of 2016). As a profiteer of the bicycle industry, I am not to be taken very seriously.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Wryknow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    68
    I'd take some of what you read about the Alfine 11 with a grain of salt. Shimano did a revision on it after 6 months of production to improve the reliability and a number of problems I have read about seem to be related to improper set up and use. Plus, folks are by nature much more likely to report bad experiences than good ones on forums so there's that too. There's lots of folks running the Alfiine 11 on mountain bikes that are very happy with them (and they've got a pretty good 2 year warranty anyway.)

  6. #6
    singlespeed smash brother
    Reputation: shwinboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by greg w View Post
    Find a frame with Rohloff specific dropouts, so you do away with monkey bones, speed bones, torque arms and all the extraneous garbabe that goes wth a non OEM setup.
    I've got an existing Ti dean ss frame with ebb. Sadly I'll need the speed bone but think if I go the Rolhoff I'll get some one to mod the dropout down the track.

  7. #7
    singlespeed smash brother
    Reputation: shwinboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    An Alfine isn't going to get you close to that low 22 x 34 gear. If you have the money, pop for the Rohloff to get the wide gear range. I have an Alfine 8 because it is economical, but I am saving my pennies for a Rohloff.
    Yeah. I figure that I'd run 32x 20 on the alfine which would give me about the top range I'm after but not really the bottom especially with the low gear being a large jump. Would I be rash in thinking that it'd be similar to running a 1x 10 on standard drive train?

  8. #8
    singlespeed smash brother
    Reputation: shwinboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    290
    Quote Originally Posted by Wryknow View Post
    a number of problems I have read about seem to be related to improper set up and use.
    I suppose I'm worried that what I want to do with it , ie run below the recommended ratio, might fall under " improper set up and use."

  9. #9
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,281
    yes, I's be worried too. Racing would likely be improper use too for the 11.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: honkonbobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    348
    Quote Originally Posted by Wryknow View Post
    I'd take some of what you read about the Alfine 11 with a grain of salt. Shimano did a revision on it after 6 months of production to improve the reliability and a number of problems I have read about seem to be related to improper set up and use. Plus, folks are by nature much more likely to report bad experiences than good ones on forums so there's that too. There's lots of folks running the Alfiine 11 on mountain bikes that are very happy with them (and they've got a pretty good 2 year warranty anyway.)
    i have 400km on my alfine 11 and am in the happy crowd so far. for me dealing with the "improper setup and use" has been spinning easy on the hub for the first couple hundred kms to break it in (not mashing), doing an easy revolution or two after downshifting to be sure it engages and also being careful with cable tweaking. an ever so slight misalignment of the cable and the hub will shift poorly possibly leading to bigger problems. hit the sweet spot and the shifting is real nice.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: swift's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    590
    Non-OEM isn't that big a deal. I can change a flat in the field in under 10min, front (20mm thru) or rear (Rohloff). Let's face it, if you get a flat, it will likely cost your race regardless of what drivetrain you're on. ...Part of racing.

    Race the Rohloff. If you're fit, you'll be competetive. If you get a flat, it's just not your day.

  12. #12
    ugh
    ugh is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    19
    I can't comment on the rohloff but am a happy owner of an alfine 11. While I really like the alfine I don't think it would be a good choice for racing as it will misbehave if your in a hurry. You don't seem to notice the missed shifts or slipping when you are sniffing flowers but if you need it to work flawlessly I would stick with a derailleur.

  13. #13
    Music & Bikes
    Reputation: fokof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    977
    Quote Originally Posted by shwinboy View Post
    I've got an existing Ti dean ss frame with ebb. Sadly I'll need the speed bone but think if I go the Rolhoff I'll get some one to mod the dropout down the track.
    It can work without speed bone or monkeybone depending on wich brake you use.

    I use Hope Mono mini and there is enough space between the caliper and the frame , maybe I'm lucky , I don't know .....

    I've put a Presta valve bolt between frame/caliper to "receive" the OEM plate.
    I just chose one with the right thickness.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  14. #14
    singlespeed smash brother
    Reputation: shwinboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    290
    I've just ordered a Rolhoff. I'm so excited. Been wanting to do this for years. I have a monkey bone ready to go. I actually like the fact that you have to wear these hubs in. I'm hoping it will give me the motivation to get out more.

  15. #15
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    I've been riding an Alfine 11 for almost exactly a year, and I'm on my 5th hub. They just keep dying and so far, they keep replacing them. I do *not* take the reports I read on the internet with a grain of salt, because they all describe the exact same problems I have. You can't really blame it on setup, because there is virtually none. You just have to align the cable, which is similar to aligning a cable on a rear derailer, but it's MUCH easier on the Alfine due to the yellow dots. And that's all there is to it. I run all mine with a 32/30. When the hub is working, it's great, I'm super happy with it, it is superior to derailer in every way. But when it's not working, it sucks. And it's not working A LOT. If one of the big IGH benefits you are seeking is the enhanced reliability, DO NOT GET AN ALFINE 11.

    Also, about gear ratios. The Alfine 11 with a 32/20 is actually VERY close to an XT 3x9. It's basically a 27 speed XT system minus the top gear, and the two very lowest gears. Everything else is there and it's very easy to adapt to the few missing gears. I've never had any issue with the spacing between gears being a problem. Even when my 2nd gear completely disintegrated, it wasn't soo much of a probably going from 1st to 3rd all the time.
    The Rholoff is even better, It's gear range is more like a 3x9 XT setup, with just the very lowest gear gone. And everything else is there. If the Alfine 11 was as reliable as the rholoff (or even reliable AT ALL, I was only hoping to get a solid 3 years out of the hub, not 3 months), I'd definitely recommend it over the Rholoff. On paper, it's an amazing hub that has all of the right options, and it poised to start an IGH frenzy. In reality, it's an unreliable mess that is probably doing a better job of selling derailers than anything else.

    I have a spreadsheet comparing all of the gear ratios of derailer based drive trains, alfine 11s with various input gears, and rholoffs with various input gears. I'd post a link, but it's not on this computer remind me and I'll link to it.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: vikb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    8,791
    Quote Originally Posted by shwinboy View Post
    I've just ordered a Rolhoff.
    Rohloff is a great choice if you have the $$. I've got a couple Rohloffs, 3 Alfine 8's and an Alfine 11.

    The Alfine 11 is trucking along fine and other folks are having good experiences with them, but OTOH some folks are breaking theirs. It's not clear yet what's going on with the Alfine 11's.

    The Rohloff has a much longer track record and it's service life and quirks are understood much better.

    Enjoy your new IGH...
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post

    Also, about gear ratios. The Alfine 11 with a 32/20 is actually VERY close to an XT 3x9.

    I have a spreadsheet comparing all of the gear ratios of derailer based drive trains, alfine 11s with various input gears, and rholoffs with various input gears. I'd post a link, but it's not on this computer remind me and I'll link to it.
    Well I'm sure you've done your research, but don't you think the problem is right there? The recommended input ratio is 1:1.9, and you are at almost twice that at 1:1.06.

    That's almost twice the input torque. (Well actually it's 1.78 x )
    That's like designing it for a 200 lb rider, and then putting a 356 lb rider on it.

    Don't you think that's the most obvious explanation?

    Disclaimer: I have almost 4 years of perfect reliability with the alfine 8, but no experience with the 11.

  18. #18
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    If 1.9 is the "lower limit" of the hub, then shimano should write that it is the "lower limit", rather than simply writing "recommended ratio". "recommended ratio" is really meaningless, and I have yet to hear from anyone, that shimano has said you can't go lower than 1.9. Also my ratio is 1.6 not 1.06. And lastly, at a 1.9 input ratio, the lowest gear becomes a gear higher than 1.0, and the highest gear becomes a gear greater than 4. That would all but preclude using this hub off road.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Corporal Punishment's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by evrac View Post
    Well I'm sure you've done your research, but don't you think the problem is right there? The recommended input ratio is 1:1.9, and you are at almost twice that at 1:1.06.
    32/20 is 1.6, not 1.06. Not sure if that was a typo on your part. Either way, that seems to be the preferred setup for MTB.

    1.9 > 1.6 is not that far off and after reading every thread in this IGH forum that had to do with this subject, I've come to the conclusion that the input ratio is a recommendation and not a hard rule.

    Also, Fellsbiker told his story in another thread and 2 of the 4 bad ones were definitely manufacturing defects - one leaked, the other made grinding noise before even mounting on the bike. The other 2 suffered broken 2nd gears during riding.

    To me it sounds like Fellsbiker is just getting screwed with his warranty returns - meaning they're giving him leftovers, repaired and open box returns instead of new. If not, I think we'd have heard more horror stories. ** I HOPE! **

  20. #20
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    Here is a link to my ratio sheet.

    http://www.fellsbiker.com/docs/alfine_11_ratios.pdf

    I've upgraded to 36/22 from 36/20 for chain clearance issues, but it is essentially the same ratio as 32/20, just a tiny bit higher.

    The grayed out gear ratios in the first 3 x 9 box show roughly the gears that are missing from an alfine 11 @ 32/20 input. It's a pretty doable match.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    106
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    I've been riding an Alfine 11 for almost exactly a year, and I'm on my 5th hub. They just keep dying and so far, they keep replacing them. I do *not* take the reports I read on the internet with a grain of salt, because they all describe the exact same problems I have. You can't really blame it on setup, because there is virtually none. You just have to align the cable, which is similar to aligning a cable on a rear derailer, but it's MUCH easier on the Alfine due to the yellow dots. And that's all there is to it. I run all mine with a 32/30. When the hub is working, it's great, I'm super happy with it, it is superior to derailer in every way. But when it's not working, it sucks. And it's not working A LOT. If one of the big IGH benefits you are seeking is the enhanced reliability, DO NOT GET AN ALFINE 11.
    .
    Sorry, I quoted the wrong part, picked up on this typo, and didn't realize you had stated 32:20 on the other quote.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by shwinboy View Post
    I've just ordered a Rolhoff. I'm so excited. Been wanting to do this for years. I have a monkey bone ready to go. I actually like the fact that you have to wear these hubs in. I'm hoping it will give me the motivation to get out more.
    Good choice
    I am a massive fan of IGH, purchased my first Rohloff 9-10 years ago due to local drive train eating conditions and never looked back, to the point where I can't stand riding bikes with mechs

    Pesently I am very fortunate to run

    3 x Rohloffs
    1 x Alfine 11
    1 x Alfine 8

    With price not an issue Rohloff is definatly my favorite and bombproof, my original hub has had a yearly oil change, 2-3 sets of cables, new seals and a new sprocket in it's life time and has been on several bikes and has been fault free.
    This hub has been used for everything from XC to DH and has survived 2 weeks of DH in the French and Austrian Alps. And I think I've just started to run it in.
    2nd Rohloff is 4 years old (new laser etched version) from new and ran smooth out of the box, again bomb proof and just oil and cable changes.
    3rd Rohloff I've had for about 3 years, purchased second hand so not sure of total age, again bomb proof with just oil and cable changes.
    I have slowly reduced the gearing on these over the years presently running 34 x 16, the only change I would make from experience with he Alfine would be to have the TS version for FS frames to stiffen the rear end up.

    The Alfine 8 (500) was purchased second hand for a HT winter hack, replaced sprocket and changed shifter to a Nexus twist shifter, again not sure how old it is but its been bomproof if lacking in range. Running 32 x 24

    The Alfine 11 was purchased finally new for a HT, not ridden it much, better range than the 8 of course but does seem a bit more sensitive to cable setup although appears to be settling down with more use. Low end is the same as the 8 so just more higher ratios. Need a few more mile on it and try it on a FS frame before I'me convinced it's price/performance compromise over the Rohloff. Running 32 x 24.

    I know some one who races enduro with his Rohloff and has just ugraded with a new frame so he canrun a belt drive, very nice.

    Enjoy you won't regret it

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    11
    Wise choice with the Rohloff. Getting the right gearing is also important. I'm running 17- 89 gear inches on my Pugs with 42/20 but you can get virtually the same thing with 36-17. You may want higher gearing depending on your specific bike setup and needs.

  24. #24
    singlespeed smash brother
    Reputation: shwinboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    290
    My rolhoff finally arrived this week. I've had one decent ride on it so far but I'm blown away. It is everything I was hoping for and more. Thinking ahead with the shifting is going to take some practice but it's just so good, Gears with the silence of a single speed= Awesome.

    I'm running 42 x 16 and haven't needed to use the lowest 3 gears yet and the upper range has me scaring myself down hill again because now I can pedal where I would coast on the ss. Well worth the money.

  25. #25
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    If only rholoff would make a trigger shifter...

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    If only rholoff would make a trigger shifter...
    Trigger seems to be on the way ...

  27. #27
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    Neat. It's not a rholoff product though. Which means its probably going to cost a lot. I wonder if it's low normal or high normal.

  28. #28
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    You know, I was thinking about it, and it really wouldn't take very much at all for rholoff to make a trigger shifter. They could keep most of their current shifter. You take the base of the current shifter, and the donut that goes around the handlebar. You just take off the grip part of the grip shifter, and you put a part of shift levers with two ratched mechanisms, and a simple gear system so when you put the lever, it rotates the cables just like twisting the grip shift. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they didn't do this years ago. Nobody uses grip shifts any more, and for a reason, people don't like them.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Nobody uses grip shifts any more, and for a reason, people don't like them.
    Not exactly true. Some have voiced opinions Rohloff needs a trigger shifter but many I believe would not want to give up their grip shift. For one thing the beauty of Rohloffs shifter is simplicity and reliability. No springs. As you know there are two cables. It's very intuitive for me to use a Rohloff shifter. Cranking forward for higher gearing and cranking back for lower.

    You can also crank several gears in one motion which I sometimes do. Don't try to second guess Rohloff. They thought of everything a long time ago. KISS is what Rohloff stands for. As time goes by I think you will agree. Get to know your speed hub. It will all seem very intuitive in a very short time.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    Must say I prefer a twist shifter and the new Rohloff light version is awsome.

    In fact I would really like an option for the Alfine 11.

  31. #31
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    Ok when I say "nobody" I don't literally mean nobody. I was exaggerating. Must most, nearly all of the riders I ride with, ride and prefer trigger shifters. Many bike shops have told me that the grip shift is the main complaint about people thinking about buying a rholoff. Also you can shift one or two at a time on the Alfine 11 shifter and a regular XT shifter. And you can easily keep shifting for the same effect, hence the name "rapidfire"

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Ok when I say "nobody" I don't literally mean nobody. I was exaggerating.
    I think it works well on the Rohloff due to the double cable and indexing at the hub set up once you have used it makes perfect sense.
    However the one thing thats a bit of a pain with the Rohloff is running the two cables along frames designed for single cable runs.

    Thinking about it the nexus twist shifter I am running on the Alfine 8 is no where as slick, well built or nice to use, however it costs next to nothing compared to the Rohloff shifters and gets the job done.

    I am also starting to think that some of the shifting issues people maybe having with the Alfine 11 is due to a mix of the system being sensitive to setup combined with indexing at the lever and long cable runs on full suspension frames.
    I kinda remember this effect on standard mech systems and FS frames when I used them years ago.

    Unfortunately I dont have a FS that will accept the Alfine torque washer to test this theory out.

  33. #33
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    A full suspension bike's wheelbase is only a few inches longer than a hardtail, at most. I doubt a tiny increase in cable length makes any different. And unless you mounted the cable horribly wrong, the the flexing suspension is going to have no more effect on the Alfine 11's shift cable, as it would on a derailer or brake cable. aka none. I think it's a simpler matter of design. 2nd gear simply isn't strong enough.
    Last edited by fellsbiker; 05-26-2012 at 03:28 AM.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    fellsbiker your frame provides quite a straight run, I have to have a big old loop between the front and rear triangles on my frames which adds 3-5 inches over the hard tail.

    Totally agree with the suspension movement having an effect, which is what I was trying to (poorly) allude to .

    I don't agree that that cable length and suspension movement has no effect, as "ghost shifting" is a known phenomenon, a small effect yes which I think may influence a system that is quite sensitive to set up.
    Last edited by -jes; 05-29-2012 at 01:47 PM.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Corporal Punishment's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    And unless you mounted the cable horribly wrong, the the flexing suspension is going to have no more effect on the Alfine 11's shift cable, as it would on a derailer or brake cable. aka none.
    Not true. That depends on the spring tension which (and I could be wrong about this) is LESS for the alfine than a traditional derailleur. More spring tension can overcome a poor setup. Less will definitely make cable routing more important because it will be more susceptible to slowing/stopping the cable in the housing if bends are too tight.

    Your thumb can apply as much pressure as necessary to move up in gear. When shifting down, the spring in the hub has a fixed tension and can have trouble pulling the cable back through if the housing has tight bends.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Corporal Punishment's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    161
    And PS - its a lot more difficult to brake and shift simultaneously with a grip shift because you need thumb and forefinger to grip it. I like the trigger too.

  37. #37
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    Not true. That depends on the spring tension which (and I could be wrong about this) is LESS for the alfine than a traditional derailleur. More spring tension can overcome a poor setup. Less will definitely make cable routing more important because it will be more susceptible to slowing/stopping the cable in the housing if bends are too tight.
    What I'm saying is that bending cables when your suspension flexes, shouldn't be in issue at all. You would have to go out of your way to mount your cable in such a way that it would flex any significant amount when the suspension flexed. Any normal cable installation won't be effected at all. You would have to purposely zip tie your cable along every inch of your frame, so it came to a point right over your pivot. That's unlikely to be anyone's problem with this hub. I think you're more likely to have the loop at the handlebars be too right, than have a cable that is being effected by suspension flex.

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    106
    Continuing to try and troubleshoot fellsbiker's troubles....

    Sorry about the 36:30 vs 36:20 confusion earlier.

    I would still claim that suspension movement can have a very significant effect on cables.
    If the cable didn't have the boot, you could easily put a mark on it with a sharpie pen, and then compress the suspension and see if it moves. Maybe you can find some other way to check. Is that an air shock? Just check your yellow dots, drain the air from the shock, and check again?

    Also, do the dots line up exactly the same if you approach from both the low or high end? If not it would indicate cable friction.

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    This picture shows the cable run for the Rohloff, an Alfine cable run would follow a similiar route down the drive side of the frame but with a straighter run from the "seat stay" to the hub.
    I get a fair amount of cable movement from activation of the VPP suspension.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Racing Rolhoff or Alfine 11-004.jpg  


  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Corporal Punishment's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    What I'm saying is that bending cables when your suspension flexes, shouldn't be in issue at all.
    Correct. But its the degree of bend that matters. If you rear suspension movement causes the cable to form a very tight bend then the cable can get pinched in the housing. Only sweeping bends are OK so as not to restrict movement.

    Its an easy thing to test. Put it in 6th gear and push the bike through its total travel and see if the dots move. If not, unhook the cable from the cassette joint and manually push and pull it through the housing. If it moves with difficulty, its time to think about re-routing the cable or buying a new one.or both.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Ok when I say "nobody" I don't literally mean nobody. I was exaggerating. Must most, nearly all of the riders I ride with, ride and prefer trigger shifters. Many bike shops have told me that the grip shift is the main complaint about people thinking about buying a Rohloff.
    FWIW the NuVinci N360, Shimano Nexus 3 and Nexus 7, SRAM iMotion3, P5 and S7, and the Sturmey-Archer 8-speed IGHs have only factory twist shifters available.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    And PS - its a lot more difficult to brake and shift simultaneously with a grip shift because you need thumb and forefinger to grip it. I like the trigger too.
    This is a very good point, I run the twist shifter on the left side to help a wrist injury (another reason why trigger shifters don't work so well for me) but I found I had this issue on very fast steep technical stuff when out of my comfort zone and needed to constantly cover the rear brake so had trouble changing up.

    I also found the old triangular Rohloff shifter is quite wide/thick which caused the muscle at the base of my thumb to swell up to the size of a small orange with extended all day riding in the same conditions.
    The Rohloff light shifter which is the sams diameter as a Odi Ruffian is perfect thought along with middle finger braking really improves the functionality in more chalenging conditions

  43. #43
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    Yeah but you're comparing an IGH grip shift to a chain-based trigger shifter. Of course the Rholoff grip shift is going to be faster. Compare the Rholoff grip shift to a rare "functional" Alfine 11 trigger shifters, and I think almost everyone would prefer the Alfine's shifter.

    *for the first 10 miles, then second gear will self destruct and that be that.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    34
    Since I ride the Rohloff I am not used to triggers anymore and last weekend I was trying to race a FOES MONO 2:1 with trigger shifters SRAM X0 and I had problems changing gears, lost the chain and trigger shifting is not as fast as the rohloff shifter. You stop paddeling and during seconds you can change all 14 gears. There is no shifter on the world that is such fast as the Rohloff.

    I race Rohloff in my DH bike and I did't have problems since 3 years during racing or holydays in the french alps.

    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    If only rholoff would make a trigger shifter...

  45. #45
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    Does anyone happen to know if the Alfine 11 and Rohloff will use the same spokes, when installing on the same rim? I just broke down my wheel to ship my Alfine back to the bike shop. I saved the nipples and I'm wondering if I should save the spokes, if they will eventually be the right length to built a rohloff into that same rim.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    34
    There are lots of spoke lenght calculaters in the www.

    one example:

    Edd, an easy to use spoke length calculator
    Spoke Length Calculator for Bicycle Wheels
    Spoke Length Calculator

    I am not sure if both gear hubs have the same dimension. I think both need different spokes.
    But same hub in same rim, is the same spoke length.

    In my opinion, you should never use old spokes again, espacially not older ones or from a broken rim, because it is a saftey part and they are usually not expensiv. You can save your old spokes if you are on a trip and one brakes, than you can replace it with an old one. It is allways safer to use new ones.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: -jes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    145
    I think the Rohloff has larger diameter flanges than the Alfine.

    I have a few spare spokes from a Rohloff to Mavic 521 build I can measure if you need to compare.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Corporal Punishment's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    161
    I just plugged in both the alfine 11 and the rohloff into one of the calculators and there was less than 1mm difference in spoke length. So its possible, but yea, spokes are cheap.

    DAN'S COMP - Bmx Bikes, Bmx Parts, Bmx Clothing, Bmx Shoes and Bmx Accessories!

  49. #49
    A Man Of The Truth
    Reputation: fellsbiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    324
    I did the same thing and got different results, more than 1mm. Plus turns out my Alfine hub is still dished, I didn't realize that. I'll just go with new spokes.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Yeah but you're comparing an IGH grip shift to a chain-based trigger shifter. Of course the Rholoff grip shift is going to be faster. Compare the Rholoff grip shift to a rare "functional" Alfine 11 trigger shifters, and I think almost everyone would prefer the Alfine's shifter.

    *for the first 10 miles, then second gear will self destruct and that be that.
    I get that you're less than happy with the Alfine 11, all 700 hubs that you've been through, but can you ease off on the ridiculous stats/claims. I follow IGH threads on forums all over the web and it's amazing how many of the negatives track back to your posts as a basis. Yes, I know that's the net and people spew based on what they read rather than personal experience. But at least stop with the wild claims, just a flick through today I've discovered, according to you:-

    Alfine 11 failure rate is 20% - is it really, have you ever read Bad Science?

    Alfine 11 2nd gear will explode

    Hardly anybody likes twist shifters

    No triggers for Rohloff and when shown that one is coming out you then switched to 'well it's not OEM so it'll be expensive'

    Alfine 11 is rubbish and neither it nor the 8 speed are fit for MTBing - strangely not borne out by the posts of experienced hub gear users

    Maybe it's just an internet thing but all these negatives pop up on searches everywhere and drown out quality information from other sources. For example Viks Lazy Rando blog, the guy gives really detailed reviews and puts his hub gears through hell, He's also honest on pros and cons and any issues. But what you won't read are any ridiculous claims based on extrapolating out a tiny amount of data.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •