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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    If only rholoff would make a trigger shifter...
    Trigger seems to be on the way ...

  2. #27
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    Neat. It's not a rholoff product though. Which means its probably going to cost a lot. I wonder if it's low normal or high normal.

  3. #28
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    You know, I was thinking about it, and it really wouldn't take very much at all for rholoff to make a trigger shifter. They could keep most of their current shifter. You take the base of the current shifter, and the donut that goes around the handlebar. You just take off the grip part of the grip shifter, and you put a part of shift levers with two ratched mechanisms, and a simple gear system so when you put the lever, it rotates the cables just like twisting the grip shift. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why they didn't do this years ago. Nobody uses grip shifts any more, and for a reason, people don't like them.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Nobody uses grip shifts any more, and for a reason, people don't like them.
    Not exactly true. Some have voiced opinions Rohloff needs a trigger shifter but many I believe would not want to give up their grip shift. For one thing the beauty of Rohloffs shifter is simplicity and reliability. No springs. As you know there are two cables. It's very intuitive for me to use a Rohloff shifter. Cranking forward for higher gearing and cranking back for lower.

    You can also crank several gears in one motion which I sometimes do. Don't try to second guess Rohloff. They thought of everything a long time ago. KISS is what Rohloff stands for. As time goes by I think you will agree. Get to know your speed hub. It will all seem very intuitive in a very short time.

  5. #30
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    Must say I prefer a twist shifter and the new Rohloff light version is awsome.

    In fact I would really like an option for the Alfine 11.

  6. #31
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    Ok when I say "nobody" I don't literally mean nobody. I was exaggerating. Must most, nearly all of the riders I ride with, ride and prefer trigger shifters. Many bike shops have told me that the grip shift is the main complaint about people thinking about buying a rholoff. Also you can shift one or two at a time on the Alfine 11 shifter and a regular XT shifter. And you can easily keep shifting for the same effect, hence the name "rapidfire"

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Ok when I say "nobody" I don't literally mean nobody. I was exaggerating.
    I think it works well on the Rohloff due to the double cable and indexing at the hub set up once you have used it makes perfect sense.
    However the one thing thats a bit of a pain with the Rohloff is running the two cables along frames designed for single cable runs.

    Thinking about it the nexus twist shifter I am running on the Alfine 8 is no where as slick, well built or nice to use, however it costs next to nothing compared to the Rohloff shifters and gets the job done.

    I am also starting to think that some of the shifting issues people maybe having with the Alfine 11 is due to a mix of the system being sensitive to setup combined with indexing at the lever and long cable runs on full suspension frames.
    I kinda remember this effect on standard mech systems and FS frames when I used them years ago.

    Unfortunately I dont have a FS that will accept the Alfine torque washer to test this theory out.

  8. #33
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    A full suspension bike's wheelbase is only a few inches longer than a hardtail, at most. I doubt a tiny increase in cable length makes any different. And unless you mounted the cable horribly wrong, the the flexing suspension is going to have no more effect on the Alfine 11's shift cable, as it would on a derailer or brake cable. aka none. I think it's a simpler matter of design. 2nd gear simply isn't strong enough.
    Last edited by fellsbiker; 05-26-2012 at 03:28 AM.

  9. #34
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    fellsbiker your frame provides quite a straight run, I have to have a big old loop between the front and rear triangles on my frames which adds 3-5 inches over the hard tail.

    Totally agree with the suspension movement having an effect, which is what I was trying to (poorly) allude to .

    I don't agree that that cable length and suspension movement has no effect, as "ghost shifting" is a known phenomenon, a small effect yes which I think may influence a system that is quite sensitive to set up.
    Last edited by -jes; 05-29-2012 at 01:47 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    And unless you mounted the cable horribly wrong, the the flexing suspension is going to have no more effect on the Alfine 11's shift cable, as it would on a derailer or brake cable. aka none.
    Not true. That depends on the spring tension which (and I could be wrong about this) is LESS for the alfine than a traditional derailleur. More spring tension can overcome a poor setup. Less will definitely make cable routing more important because it will be more susceptible to slowing/stopping the cable in the housing if bends are too tight.

    Your thumb can apply as much pressure as necessary to move up in gear. When shifting down, the spring in the hub has a fixed tension and can have trouble pulling the cable back through if the housing has tight bends.

  11. #36
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    And PS - its a lot more difficult to brake and shift simultaneously with a grip shift because you need thumb and forefinger to grip it. I like the trigger too.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    Not true. That depends on the spring tension which (and I could be wrong about this) is LESS for the alfine than a traditional derailleur. More spring tension can overcome a poor setup. Less will definitely make cable routing more important because it will be more susceptible to slowing/stopping the cable in the housing if bends are too tight.
    What I'm saying is that bending cables when your suspension flexes, shouldn't be in issue at all. You would have to go out of your way to mount your cable in such a way that it would flex any significant amount when the suspension flexed. Any normal cable installation won't be effected at all. You would have to purposely zip tie your cable along every inch of your frame, so it came to a point right over your pivot. That's unlikely to be anyone's problem with this hub. I think you're more likely to have the loop at the handlebars be too right, than have a cable that is being effected by suspension flex.

  13. #38
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    Continuing to try and troubleshoot fellsbiker's troubles....

    Sorry about the 36:30 vs 36:20 confusion earlier.

    I would still claim that suspension movement can have a very significant effect on cables.
    If the cable didn't have the boot, you could easily put a mark on it with a sharpie pen, and then compress the suspension and see if it moves. Maybe you can find some other way to check. Is that an air shock? Just check your yellow dots, drain the air from the shock, and check again?

    Also, do the dots line up exactly the same if you approach from both the low or high end? If not it would indicate cable friction.

  14. #39
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    This picture shows the cable run for the Rohloff, an Alfine cable run would follow a similiar route down the drive side of the frame but with a straighter run from the "seat stay" to the hub.
    I get a fair amount of cable movement from activation of the VPP suspension.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Racing Rolhoff or Alfine 11-004.jpg  


  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    What I'm saying is that bending cables when your suspension flexes, shouldn't be in issue at all.
    Correct. But its the degree of bend that matters. If you rear suspension movement causes the cable to form a very tight bend then the cable can get pinched in the housing. Only sweeping bends are OK so as not to restrict movement.

    Its an easy thing to test. Put it in 6th gear and push the bike through its total travel and see if the dots move. If not, unhook the cable from the cassette joint and manually push and pull it through the housing. If it moves with difficulty, its time to think about re-routing the cable or buying a new one.or both.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Ok when I say "nobody" I don't literally mean nobody. I was exaggerating. Must most, nearly all of the riders I ride with, ride and prefer trigger shifters. Many bike shops have told me that the grip shift is the main complaint about people thinking about buying a Rohloff.
    FWIW the NuVinci N360, Shimano Nexus 3 and Nexus 7, SRAM iMotion3, P5 and S7, and the Sturmey-Archer 8-speed IGHs have only factory twist shifters available.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    And PS - its a lot more difficult to brake and shift simultaneously with a grip shift because you need thumb and forefinger to grip it. I like the trigger too.
    This is a very good point, I run the twist shifter on the left side to help a wrist injury (another reason why trigger shifters don't work so well for me) but I found I had this issue on very fast steep technical stuff when out of my comfort zone and needed to constantly cover the rear brake so had trouble changing up.

    I also found the old triangular Rohloff shifter is quite wide/thick which caused the muscle at the base of my thumb to swell up to the size of a small orange with extended all day riding in the same conditions.
    The Rohloff light shifter which is the sams diameter as a Odi Ruffian is perfect thought along with middle finger braking really improves the functionality in more chalenging conditions

  18. #43
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    Yeah but you're comparing an IGH grip shift to a chain-based trigger shifter. Of course the Rholoff grip shift is going to be faster. Compare the Rholoff grip shift to a rare "functional" Alfine 11 trigger shifters, and I think almost everyone would prefer the Alfine's shifter.

    *for the first 10 miles, then second gear will self destruct and that be that.

  19. #44
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    Since I ride the Rohloff I am not used to triggers anymore and last weekend I was trying to race a FOES MONO 2:1 with trigger shifters SRAM X0 and I had problems changing gears, lost the chain and trigger shifting is not as fast as the rohloff shifter. You stop paddeling and during seconds you can change all 14 gears. There is no shifter on the world that is such fast as the Rohloff.

    I race Rohloff in my DH bike and I did't have problems since 3 years during racing or holydays in the french alps.

    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    If only rholoff would make a trigger shifter...

  20. #45
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    Does anyone happen to know if the Alfine 11 and Rohloff will use the same spokes, when installing on the same rim? I just broke down my wheel to ship my Alfine back to the bike shop. I saved the nipples and I'm wondering if I should save the spokes, if they will eventually be the right length to built a rohloff into that same rim.

  21. #46
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    There are lots of spoke lenght calculaters in the www.

    one example:

    Edd, an easy to use spoke length calculator
    Spoke Length Calculator for Bicycle Wheels
    Spoke Length Calculator

    I am not sure if both gear hubs have the same dimension. I think both need different spokes.
    But same hub in same rim, is the same spoke length.

    In my opinion, you should never use old spokes again, espacially not older ones or from a broken rim, because it is a saftey part and they are usually not expensiv. You can save your old spokes if you are on a trip and one brakes, than you can replace it with an old one. It is allways safer to use new ones.

  22. #47
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    I think the Rohloff has larger diameter flanges than the Alfine.

    I have a few spare spokes from a Rohloff to Mavic 521 build I can measure if you need to compare.

  23. #48
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    I just plugged in both the alfine 11 and the rohloff into one of the calculators and there was less than 1mm difference in spoke length. So its possible, but yea, spokes are cheap.

    DAN'S COMP - Bmx Bikes, Bmx Parts, Bmx Clothing, Bmx Shoes and Bmx Accessories!

  24. #49
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    I did the same thing and got different results, more than 1mm. Plus turns out my Alfine hub is still dished, I didn't realize that. I'll just go with new spokes.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Yeah but you're comparing an IGH grip shift to a chain-based trigger shifter. Of course the Rholoff grip shift is going to be faster. Compare the Rholoff grip shift to a rare "functional" Alfine 11 trigger shifters, and I think almost everyone would prefer the Alfine's shifter.

    *for the first 10 miles, then second gear will self destruct and that be that.
    I get that you're less than happy with the Alfine 11, all 700 hubs that you've been through, but can you ease off on the ridiculous stats/claims. I follow IGH threads on forums all over the web and it's amazing how many of the negatives track back to your posts as a basis. Yes, I know that's the net and people spew based on what they read rather than personal experience. But at least stop with the wild claims, just a flick through today I've discovered, according to you:-

    Alfine 11 failure rate is 20% - is it really, have you ever read Bad Science?

    Alfine 11 2nd gear will explode

    Hardly anybody likes twist shifters

    No triggers for Rohloff and when shown that one is coming out you then switched to 'well it's not OEM so it'll be expensive'

    Alfine 11 is rubbish and neither it nor the 8 speed are fit for MTBing - strangely not borne out by the posts of experienced hub gear users

    Maybe it's just an internet thing but all these negatives pop up on searches everywhere and drown out quality information from other sources. For example Viks Lazy Rando blog, the guy gives really detailed reviews and puts his hub gears through hell, He's also honest on pros and cons and any issues. But what you won't read are any ridiculous claims based on extrapolating out a tiny amount of data.

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