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  1. #1
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    Life after Rohloff

    After riding only with a Rohloff Speedhub for the last six years. Its great to be riding STD gears again the pedals turn so easy the the gears are closer.
    I'll miss my old Rohloff hub for the 24hour races and Muddy days but the a light bike and good gear change lever are fun..

  2. #2
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    I was about ready to do that same because of the drag. So I put Mobil 1 ATF oil in and it is acceptable now. If I blow the seals or plastic shear rollers so be it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by geweber View Post
    I was about ready to do that same because of the drag. So I put Mobil 1 ATF oil in and it is acceptable now. If I blow the seals or plastic shear rollers so be it.
    Yes it a Bit of a Drag, A gear or two lower than with STD gear set up.
    But the gears are too far apart too, i'm going to ride arcoss Africa in 4 weeks 12000kms (7500miles)
    All the best with Mobil oil
    PG

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by geweber View Post
    I was about ready to do that same because of the drag. So I put Mobil 1 ATF oil in and it is acceptable now. If I blow the seals or plastic shear rollers so be it.
    Keep in mind to disclose that if you sell the hub.

  5. #5
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    It's the first time I read from someone who is pleased to go from IGH to Deraillers.


    Personaly , I would prefer the durability of a Rohloff over any derailleurs system for such a long run.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba View Post
    Keep in mind to disclose that if you sell the hub.
    Will do, posting on here contributes to being open.

  7. #7
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    The other day I rode my bike with a derailer for the first time in a couple of months after having ridden IGH's. My first thought was "Wow, all the power goes into acceleration.".

    I rode the Alfine 11 today for about 3 hours. The drag is least noticeable on this one. The shifting is pretty smooth. I enjoyed the ride. The 29er with a six inch travel fork on the front of a ML8 makes for a fun ride.

  8. #8
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    You guys should try the Nuvinci N360. It's not exactly a speed demon, but holy dingus it's smooth as butter.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZPeterG View Post
    Yes it a Bit of a Drag, A gear or two lower than with STD gear set up.
    http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf


    They state that an IGH is 2% less efficient than standard drivetrain.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  10. #10
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    I've been riding SS, Rohloff and Alfine almost exclusively for years now. I recently went to Outerbike and rode a number of standard drivetrains. The 3x10s reminded me why I don't like standard drivetrains. They're still clanking, clumsy and the front derailleur rubs if not perfectly tuned. But the 2x10s were another story. Smooth and quiet. It really got me thinking about giving 2x10 a go. I'll probably try that on my next bike.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by geweber View Post
    I was about ready to do that same because of the drag. So I put Mobil 1 ATF oil in and it is acceptable now. If I blow the seals or plastic shear rollers so be it.
    no worries, I have been running mobil 1 in my rohloff's for years and many thousands of miles

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikedroid View Post
    no worries, I have been running mobil 1 in my rohloff's for years and many thousands of miles
    Which Mobil 1 oil? Glad to hear someone else is using Mobil 1.

  13. #13
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    I'm sure I have more important things to worry about, but I have a continuous internal debate about the real world efficiency of my IGH (a Rohloff) versus derailers. There's some feedback in some of the IGH gears, but I've got my gearing dialed so that 95% of the time I'm in silent, smooth gears -- so I'm not really irritated anymore by the feeling of the hub. And I've got a pretty good external measure of efficiency. When I ride with anyone, it's pretty much always the same guy -- a well matched, though slightly stronger rider. We do many miles on the tarmac and dirt roads on road and cyclocross bikes as well as authentic mtb rides on our respective machines -- his with derailers, me with my IGH. Our relative strength of cyclists is the same no matter the bike or the terrain, so my data says that in my world the IGH is not a liability and probably not any advantage under normal conditions -- the "drag" upon spinning the cranks backwards has no impact when pushing the pedals with my legs. Short of power meters or controlled power outputs, this measurement of efficiency using longterm comparison to another rider over many miles and several different bikes meets my personal criteria for a reasonable test.
    And I also know from experience that if I'd done the ride pictured below using a derailer equipped bike, it would have at best been operating as a single speed midway through the ride...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Life after Rohloff-1210110955.jpg  

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  14. #14
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    Mmmmm I agree never known anyone to prefer going back to standard gears after using a Rohloff.

    When I got my first Rohloff I remember freewheeling down a shallow fire road with a riding buddy running standard gear set up who started to accelerate away, I had to start pedalling to keep up.

    Initially I put this down to the "drag" from the hub I had read about.

    However a few weeks later down the same fire road I was pulling away from him just freewheeling.

    What had changed? .............. Tyres

    The hubs almost 9 years old now apart from annual oil changes, 1 x set of external seal and regular cleaning after each ride it's required no maintenance.

    Used for everything from XC, AM and DH with two trips to the Alps, several season of winter sludge and snow, top tube depths of flood water, it's been on several bikes and has been rebuilt once to upgrade the rim to Mavic EX 823 tubless.

    In a word it's been bombproof, I love it and can't stand to ride standard gears now

    This first hub did feel a bit less efficient in the lower ratios when new but it's great now and the other two Rohloffs I have (one new, one second hand) have never felt significantly different in the lower gears.

    There is also a local guy who uses a Rohloff for enduro racing, doesn't seem to slow him down much

    In summary I much prefer the excellent reliability (and function) over any potential efficiency loss which is probably barely significant from my perspective compared to the effects of different offroad tyres.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by -jes View Post
    Mmmmm I agree never known anyone to prefer going back to standard gears after using a Rohloff.
    Not sure why this caught my eye, but I'm thinking that you must not know many people who ponied up the money for a Rohloff to begin with. Count me as someone who went back. I really want to like the internal gears but the drag in gears 1-7 (or at least my perception of it on my hub) is so bad that I just can't ride it on serious rides where I know I'll need climbing gears. Also, planetary gears have a lot of take-up when engaging. After years on high-engagement hubs, I prefer the direct engagement that I feel in a standard gear & high-end hub setup.

    When I first picked up the Rohloff, I tried putting a lot of miles on it to break it in. I swapped out the cog to try to optimize the gearing so that I can spend more time in the higher gears. Changed out the oil frequently, hoping the gear drag was part of break-in. Nothing really helped.

    I still keep my Rohloff on the "trail-a-bike" bike for cruising around with my kid, but I don't use it for much else. It's still a fun conversation piece among bike geeks. Also, since mine is an old pre-disc brake model, it's not compatible with my newer frames anyway. But spending the money to convert it to disc isn't worth it to me at this point.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=mtnbkaz;8842618]Not sure why this caught my eye, but I'm thinking that you must not know many people who ponied up the money for a Rohloff to begin with.QUOTE]

    This is true

    The current cost of a Rohloff is now double the price compared to the first one I purchased.
    The last wheel build was with an Alfine 11 to try and minimise the cost.

  17. #17
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    To each his own. For me theoretical efficiency loss is meaningless. I would never go back to derailleurs. Might do SS someday, but even then I would never give up my Speed hub.

  18. #18
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    Yea, to each his own. People ride IGH for different reasons. For me (alfine), I like that its smooth and dead silent even when coasting and never any chain slap on the rough stuff. I'm no racer. Maybe if I was, I would feel differently. I enjoy the ride.

  19. #19
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    How much did the Rohloff originally retail for?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    How much did the Rohloff originally retail for?
    From memory in 2003 for a silver hub with QR, disk mount, external gearbox, dogbone etc was about 530 -560 GBP with a total cost for a pair of built wheels about £650 from the local LBS.

  21. #21
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    I paid mine $1000 8 years ago , the disk brake version.

    It is now $1500.
    Rohloff Quick-Release Disc Speedhub | Speedgoat Bicycles
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  22. #22
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    I got mine at the dealer/frame builder's price -- still have the invoice. Just over 7 years ago (16 December 2004) I paid US $667.70 for the "Speedhub 500/14 XC, OEM, Black anodized". It's a rim brake version, OEM2 style torque arm.
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    How much did the Rohloff originally retail for?
    $850 from Sheldon Brown (Harris Cycles) in 2000 for the after-market kit.

  24. #24
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    Perhaps the increase in price has something to do with the weakening dollar and strengthening euro. My impression is that the price for the Rohloff has not increased much in euros, although I do not have any actual details on that.

  25. #25
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    I have mine on a Niner Rip 9 geared at 26 x 17. I did make the climb yesterday up Johnson Mountain at Oak Mountain State Park in AL for the first time. If I can maintain my balance with this low gearing I can climb pretty good.

    I still feel the drag. Has anyone tried the Fox Float Fluid? I may try that next. Thinking about trying a 1 x 10 with a 22 x 36 granny to compare against the Rohloff.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by geweber View Post
    I have mine on a Niner Rip 9 geared at 26 x 17. I did make the climb yesterday up Johnson Mountain at Oak Mountain State Park in AL for the first time. If I can maintain my balance with this low gearing I can climb pretty good.

    I still feel the drag. Has anyone tried the Fox Float Fluid? I may try that next. Thinking about trying a 1 x 10 with a 22 x 36 granny to compare against the Rohloff.
    would you not be better to think about selling it and switching to derailleurs now rather than destroying the hub with a 1.53 input ratio?

    I know, I know, it's your hub do what you like etc, but the lowest recommendation is 2.38 so you're looking for performance a long way outside operating parameters. 26x17 gives a gear a great deal lower than a 22/36 is, actually 25% lower than a 20/36.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacB View Post
    would you not be better to think about selling it and switching to derailleurs now rather than destroying the hub with a 1.53 input ratio?
    That's an honest question. Whatever damage if any is probably already done. I ran 36/17 and had a hard time keeping my balance in the lowest gear ( 17.1 g.i. ) I'm setting up for 44/20 which gives me a slightly higher gear ratio. With more teeth grabbing more chain I've concluded that the drive chain ( cog, ring, chain ) will last longer.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkaz View Post
    Not sure why this caught my eye, but I'm thinking that you must not know many people who ponied up the money for a Rohloff to begin with. Count me as someone who went back. I really want to like the internal gears but the drag in gears 1-7 (or at least my perception of it on my hub) is so bad that I just can't ride it on serious rides where I know I'll need climbing gears. Also, planetary gears have a lot of take-up when engaging. After years on high-engagement hubs, I prefer the direct engagement that I feel in a standard gear & high-end hub setup.

    When I first picked up the Rohloff, I tried putting a lot of miles on it to break it in. I swapped out the cog to try to optimize the gearing so that I can spend more time in the higher gears. Changed out the oil frequently, hoping the gear drag was part of break-in. Nothing really helped.

    I still keep my Rohloff on the "trail-a-bike" bike for cruising around with my kid, but I don't use it for much else. It's still a fun conversation piece among bike geeks. Also, since mine is an old pre-disc brake model, it's not compatible with my newer frames anyway. But spending the money to convert it to disc isn't worth it to me at this point.
    Ditto for me. Much better off with a Hadley or a DT Swiss Hugi FR hub and a SRAM 990 on my RIP. Waaay too much drag on climbs in gears 1-7. On cold mornings the gear oil felt like molasses when running in the lower gears on extended climbs. Highly over rated in terms of efficiency loss, I was getting 10-13% on long steep fireroad climbs.

  29. #29
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    They brag that their recommended gear ratio will stand up with two top athletes on a tandem. I doubt that with my 150 pound body that stays in the saddle with this low gear ratio is exceeding the torque created by this tandem.

    To make it up the climb with the Rohloff I need the lower gear ratio to compensate for the drag.

    I have a NuVinci 360 that has much more drag than the Rolhoff. A loop that took 1 hour with the Rolhoff took me 1.25 hours with the Nuvinci. So I don't take the bike with the Nuvinci on rides that have significant climbs or with a competitive group. I am running it at a gear ratio of 1.0 and the recommended it 1.8. When I talked with one individual at Fallbrook he couldn't or wouldn't tell me much about how it fails. It feels very durable and I am willing to test it beyond their recommendation.

  30. #30
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    Maybe it's a rider weight thing then, at 220lbs I don't notice anything like the drag some claim on a Rohloff. I'm also not sure how people are doing their comparative analysis here. I find the Rohloff pretty true to gearing, as in a 19" gear feels like a 19" gear. But some of the above seems to be claiming that a 19" gear on a Rohloff would feel like a 25" gear on derailleurs, that isn't borne out by my experience. That includes Rohloff, Sturmey and SRAM hubs.

    I have mine geared at 38x16 which gives me a low of 19.1" with a 2.2" tyre, so far that's been plenty low enough. 26x17 would give a low of 12.3", I'm not sure how well I could physically ride on that number.

    But then I don't go seeking out insanely steep stuff, I don't actually mind climbing it's the downhill bit I wouldn't enjoy.

  31. #31
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    I understand the Rolhoff is the strongest IGH made, how can Mobil 1 ATF damage it when 1000HP engines beat on transmissions using Mobil 1? And what's all this worry about too low a primary gear? As noted, if world class riders can use one on a tandem, how can any single rider damage it? (I've yet to hear of any Rolhoff failure.) With easily sourced parts and service, why not run as low a gear as you need? 16" on a 29" wheel would be nice for those long steep hills.

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    Maybe it can handle that but as I don't need it to then I'm not going to push beyond those boundaries. As it is 38x16 takes me down to a low that is about the same as a 22x34, taking it down to 16" would be the same as going down to a 20x36. I just don't have climbs that need anything like that and I'm not going to gear it down just in case.

    As I've already said, anyone can do whatever they like to their own hub.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    I understand the Rolhoff is the strongest IGH made, how can Mobil 1 ATF damage it when 1000HP engines beat on transmissions using Mobil 1? And what's all this worry about too low a primary gear? As noted, if world class riders can use one on a tandem, how can any single rider damage it? (I've yet to hear of any Rolhoff failure.) With easily sourced parts and service, why not run as low a gear as you need? 16" on a 29" wheel would be nice for those long steep hills.
    I have run a 34x16 on my 29er for 7 years. The low end is 17.2 gear inches and if I'm in that gear I'm too bleary eyed to stay upright at that low speed. The reason I geared it like that is to keep the quietest and smoothest running gears -- 8 and up -- in a range that I use 90% of the time. I split my mtb time between the Rohloff and a single speed and I use 47 or 49 gear inches on the single speed. With the Rohloff setup using the 34x16, gears 8, 9, and 10 are 42.0, 47.7, and 54.3 gear inches, respectively.

    I believe Rohloff says you can actually continue to use your hub if you were to lose the oil for some reason. The reason to hesitate and think about using various oils or additives (for me anyway) is that seals or other nonmetal parts might not react well to a given organic. That being said, I did spike some Rohloff oil with Molybdenum disulfide on my last oil change...

    I don't usually question another's reality, but RandyBoy is a known Rohloff detractor having bought an out of warranty hub that had some issues and apparently made himself such a pest that no one who could have helped him wanted to help him. I don't know what temperature a "cold morning" runs in his part of the world, but single digits on the Farenheit scale (either + or -) are a reality in my part of the world for 6 months of the year and such conditions have ZERO impact on the feel of the hub. As I noted before, my real world experience just doesn't have the hub either breaking down or experiencing noticeable inefficiency.

    And mtbnkaz, if you're still following this thread, perhaps I could send you a rear wheel, an XTR rear derailer and a couple of bucks in exchange for that underutilized Rohloff? I could put it to a real use -- a fat bike with a Rohloff would be awesome!
    "The plural of anecdote is not data." -- Attributed to various people in a variety of forms, but always worth remembering...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT View Post
    I have run a 34x16 on my 29er for 7 years. The low end is 17.2 gear inches and if I'm in that gear I'm too bleary eyed to stay upright at that low speed. The reason I geared it like that is to keep the quietest and smoothest running gears -- 8 and up -- in a range that I use 90% of the time. I split my mtb time between the Rohloff and a single speed and I use 47 or 49 gear inches on the single speed. With the Rohloff setup using the 34x16, gears 8, 9, and 10 are 42.0, 47.7, and 54.3 gear inches, respectively.

    I believe Rohloff says you can actually continue to use your hub if you were to lose the oil for some reason. The reason to hesitate and think about using various oils or additives (for me anyway) is that seals or other nonmetal parts might not react well to a given organic. That being said, I did spike some Rohloff oil with Molybdenum disulfide on my last oil change...

    I don't usually question another's reality, but RandyBoy is a known Rohloff detractor having bought an out of warranty hub that had some issues and apparently made himself such a pest that no one who could have helped him wanted to help him. I don't know what temperature a "cold morning" runs in his part of the world, but single digits on the Farenheit scale (either + or -) are a reality in my part of the world for 6 months of the year and such conditions have ZERO impact on the feel of the hub. As I noted before, my real world experience just doesn't have the hub either breaking down or experiencing noticeable inefficiency.

    And mtbnkaz, if you're still following this thread, perhaps I could send you a rear wheel, an XTR rear derailer and a couple of bucks in exchange for that underutilized Rohloff? I could put it to a real use -- a fat bike with a Rohloff would be awesome!
    Now that makes perfect sense and thanks for the additional info, in the same circumstances I wouldn't hesitate to run 34x16. It sounds like you fully understand how gearing and torque works and have calculated how to get what you want without risk. Though well within parameters I based my road going Rohloff gearing on the same theory, keeping my majority riding in the upper 7.

    It's a shame that RandyBoy has had so many issues but, as this thread shows, buying secondhand can have an element of chance. I certainly wouldn't buy a hub that had been run at 26x17 and experimented on with different oils. Or I would at least check with Rohloff on the cost of a refurbishment and factor that into the price I was prepared to pay. But that assumes that you're given all of the information necessary to make such a decision. That is not an accusation towards anyone merely an observation of the realities of buying seconhand and people tinkering.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba View Post
    That's an honest question. Whatever damage if any is probably already done. I ran 36/17 and had a hard time keeping my balance in the lowest gear ( 17.1 g.i. ) I'm setting up for 44/20 which gives me a slightly higher gear ratio. With more teeth grabbing more chain I've concluded that the drive chain ( cog, ring, chain ) will last longer.
    Suba, where did you get the 20 tooth gear for the Rohloff? The largest I could find was the 17 tooth.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by geweber View Post
    Suba, where did you get the 20 tooth gear for the Rohloff? The largest I could find was the 17 tooth.
    21 tooth from HERE not cheap though.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by -jes View Post
    21 tooth from HERE not cheap though.
    I looked at that too but didn't want an odd tooth.

    geweber.... I ordered mine from Phil Wood for $66.00 plus shipping. Should be here soon..

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba View Post
    That's an honest question. Whatever damage if any is probably already done. I ran 36/17 and had a hard time keeping my balance in the lowest gear ( 17.1 g.i. ) I'm setting up for 44/20 which gives me a slightly higher gear ratio. With more teeth grabbing more chain I've concluded that the drive chain ( cog, ring, chain ) will last longer.
    I think it's been mentioned enough, but any damage you are going to do will be to the couple nylon "pins". Rohloff designed it this way so you shear the pins and not anything that is difficult/expensive to replace. I ran mine out of range for 2 years before I went to SS (waiting on 36h shell, long story) with 265 downt o 225 lbs. No issues and had it serviced to check on internals. Also bought this one used with a couple K miles on it.

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    @NZPeterG: That really surprises me. Perhaps I just compared a "cheap" derailleur setup to the best IGH, but I'm pretty sure my rohloff is the same efficiency or better than my old derailleur setup. I'll never go back!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT View Post
    ... a fat bike with a Rohloff would be awesome!
    It is!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Life after Rohloff-fat-tires-fat-tree-.jpg  


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeT View Post
    I don't usually question another's reality, but RandyBoy is a known Rohloff detractor having bought an out of warranty hub that had some issues and apparently made himself such a pest that no one who could have helped him wanted to help him. I don't know what temperature a "cold morning" runs in his part of the world, but single digits on the Farenheit scale (either + or -) are a reality in my part of the world for 6 months of the year and such conditions have ZERO impact on the feel of the hub. As I noted before, my real world experience just doesn't have the hub either breaking down or experiencing noticeable inefficiency.
    Hahaha....+1000...you hit the nail on the head...

    I've got 2 Rohloffs as well as 3 other IGHs. My Rohloffs have been stellar for me as have my other IGHs. No issues down to -30 deg C for several hours.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  42. #42
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    I am in the process of deciding whether to stick to standard drivetrain vs Rohloff. Tested out a Rohloff yesterday, and did not notice the drag so much, although the gearings are different. Any advise on how to sense gearing difference vs drag?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencyclist View Post
    I am in the process of deciding whether to stick to standard drivetrain vs Rohloff. Tested out a Rohloff yesterday, and did not notice the drag so much, although the gearings are different. Any advise on how to sense gearing difference vs drag?
    I'm not sure what you mean. Although you won't have exactly the same gears on a Rohloff bike you get the same range as a typical MTB drivetrain. The 14 gears you do have will approximate a bunch of options available on your derailleur MTB.

    If you rode a Rohloff bike and liked the experience go for it. If not stick with derailleurs.

    For my MTBs I think the perfect shifting under all weather conditions, shifting while coasting, lack of derailleur to rip off and lack of chainslap make an IGH a great choice.

    Having said that I currently have 1 IGH MTB and 1 derailleur MTB with a 3rd IGH MTB being built. Both systems work - just depends on the conditions you ride in and what matters to you most which one is the right choice.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencyclist View Post
    I am in the process of deciding whether to stick to standard drivetrain vs Rohloff. Tested out a Rohloff yesterday, and did not notice the drag so much, although the gearings are different. Any advise on how to sense gearing difference vs drag?
    I suppose you could attempt to do the same route in exactly the same gear inches via derailleur and IGH, then compare feel, speed and times. You'd also have to try and minimise all the other variables.

    I can honestly say that once I'm riding I don't really notice anything, but then I don't race so I'm not getting 'dropped' on hills or anything. Drag is literally any loss of energy from you through the drivetrain. But it often gets confused with the different feel of an IGH.

    I've actually taken my Rohloff off my 29er and am putting it on a tourer now. Basically because the bigger range, top gears especially, will be more use there. The 29er is now sporting the SRAM I-9 but this may be replaced by an Alfine 8, mainly to get a trigger shifter, and black hub, for this build. I did consider the A11 but reckon 8 is enough for my offroad needs.

    It's really down to how/where you ride and the gears you need. For an Alfine 8 I'd gear it at 34x21, same as the I-9, to give me 25 to 76 gear inches. The I-9 gives me an 86 inch gear on the top end but is otherwise identical to the A8. My sort of riding wasn't requiring the super low of the Rohloff, or the top end, so I was under utilising the hub offroad.

  45. #45
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    I have a 26" hardtail MTB with rim brakes with 44/32/22 mated to 11-34. It has been a super light experience for 10 years. Now I am converting to disc brakes on the new frame, just wavering whether want the drivetrain to be the same as before or try IGH for a new experience. I would love to have the ultra low gears, and might even consider doing the 32x16 or 34x17, but that would void the warranty. I think the lowest allowed is 38/16. I am not the powerful dude that's going to exceed the max cranking power, but also do not want to have problem with the hubs and regret voiding the warranty. Tough decision.

    If I go with the standard drivetrain, I would want the 44/32/22 with 11-36 which would be similar to 34x17.

  46. #46
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    I am running 26 x 17 with the Rohloff on a 29er. I notice the drag more on a steeper climb in the lower gears. This is my first winter and it is nice not to have break downs of the drive train.

    Rohloff has an efficiency chart for each gear. There is a theory that if you gear it lower so you are not in the low gears so much that it might be better. I don't know about that. Sometimes I go from 2 to 4 to 6 to 8 to 9 to 11 to 13. Those gears are a little more efficient than the adjacent ones. When you go from 7 to 8 you enter a different range that is more efficient. There is less gear noise above 7. I am running Mobil One ATF. It seems to have less drag.

  47. #47
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    As far as I know the rohloff is 2x7 sets of gears, so the lower 7 engage an additional planetary gear that is not used for the upper 7. If that is correct then the lower 7 would always have less overall efficiency than the upper. But it also means that, with direct drive at gear 11, you're not moving 10 gears away when you use first. So gear 5 is really gear 11 with the step down planetary engaged and could be more efficient than something like gear 8.

    As something worth having a go with it would be a no brainer if it weren't for the initial cost outlay. If you use a full triple range offroad then the rohloff would be the best IGH choice. Whereas if your riding style tends more towards the SS style, as in you change gear infrequently and are more likely to vary your power input rather than change gear, then another IGH would be more your thing.

    For example I will mash it offroad, get out of the saddle a lot and rarely change gears unless I really have to. At some point I'll probably build up the courage to go SS for offroad use, on a 29er. but it will be nice to be able to switch between an 8/9 IGH wheel or a SS one. On road I change gear more, especially for touring/long day style riding where I will climb, and ride, seated a lot more. So for this the rohloff matches my needs pretty well.

    I can't really be specific on efficiency variances as it seems to be such a subjective area. For the rides I do and the people I ride with I don't find an IGH to be a hindrance at all. I'm not even aware of having to work noticeably harder with one over a derailleur setup. But this is only within my own parameters, my bikes are well set up, well maintained and well suited to match my needs. I don't race, I like wider tyres and I prefer flat pedals and wool cycling tops....though I don't have a beard and I don't wear sandals.

  48. #48
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    I ran 36/17 for quite a while and liked the 17.1 to 90.1 g.i. with my Pugs which is effectively a 29er. I recently switched from 3/32" to 1/8" drivetrain. My new setup is 44/20 which gives me 17.8 to 93.6 g.i. This gives me slightly higher gearing but gear 11 is still an easy 63.8 which is the gear I ride most.

    I couldn't see myself riding without my speed hub. As most of you known it changes the way you ride and considerably reduces the workload. At least it does for me.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencyclist View Post
    I have a 26" hardtail MTB with rim brakes with 44/32/22 mated to 11-34. It has been a super light experience for 10 years. Now I am converting to disc brakes on the new frame, just wavering whether want the drivetrain to be the same as before or try IGH for a new experience. I would love to have the ultra low gears, and might even consider doing the 32x16 or 34x17, but that would void the warranty. I think the lowest allowed is 38/16. I am not the powerful dude that's going to exceed the max cranking power, but also do not want to have problem with the hubs and regret voiding the warranty. Tough decision.

    If I go with the standard drivetrain, I would want the 44/32/22 with 11-36 which would be similar to 34x17.
    I've been running 34x16 on my 29er for years without any problems. If you search, you'll find many people are running their Rohloffs geared below the specs without problems.

  50. #50
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    Want!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by sevencyclist View Post
    .... just wavering whether want the drivetrain to be the same as before or try IGH for a new experience.
    The Rohloff is an acquired taste. (IGH in general)
    You have to "re-learn" how to shift but once you get it , derailleurs system feel so ...... how can I put it ........... 20th century.
    It's 14 speeds but have an equal 14% between each , no ratio gaps like other IGH or derailleurs.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba View Post
    I ran 36/17 for quite a while and liked the 17.1 to 90.1 g.i. with my Pugs which is effectively a 29er. I recently switched from 3/32" to 1/8" drivetrain. My new setup is 44/20 which gives me 17.8 to 93.6 g.i. This gives me slightly higher gearing but gear 11 is still an easy 63.8 which is the gear I ride most.

    I couldn't see myself riding without my speed hub. As most of you known it changes the way you ride and considerably reduces the workload. At least it does for me.
    What type of terrain do you ride your pug in? I just bought a mukluk and would like to ride it everywhere, rocky single track,the beach, along the river, rail trails and in town and really think an igh (rolhoff) would be the ticket. Your thoughts? So far i'm on the big ring and cant use the lowest gear on small ring for tire rub by the time i loose the rub i am almost at the lowest gear on big ring.
    Last edited by t0pcat; 05-27-2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: addition
    “An adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.” Marco Polo

  53. #53
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead!

    Quote Originally Posted by BenSwayne View Post
    @NZPeterG: That really surprises me. Perhaps I just compared a "cheap" derailleur setup to the best IGH, but I'm pretty sure my rohloff is the same efficiency or better than my old derailleur setup. I'll never go back!
    Well after over 2500km's with STD (xt) Derailleur's I have find that i'm running with close (road block) i'm not missing My old Rohloff hub.
    I do find that riding offroad (mountain biking) that I miss the easy of charging gears with a Rohloff Hub BUT my bike is lighter with out a Rohloff at the back.
    I switch back to STD gears for a ride across Africa with "Tour d'Afrique" this year
    , with a rohloff I would have been slower with head wind's etc as a Rohloff hub has wide gear spacing (13-14%) so this was why Std gearing made it better for the tour!
    Yes Tour d'Afrique is 12,000km's long, I did not finish as almost died in Sudan (bad Doctor's) saved only by getting onto "Flying Doctor's" to Kenya and good Doctor's
    I'm looking to go back and finish seeing Africa, Solo cycle Touring.
    So i'm looking at getting a Rohloff Speedhub again (a Q/R this time) as riding with a full load and at a slower pace, it's all that's simple.
    So after all i'm not over a Rohloff Hub it's just there is a right and a not so right place/time to ride with one.

  54. #54
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
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    we al knew you'd be back

  55. #55
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by finch2 View Post
    we al knew you'd be back
    Ha Ha

  56. #56
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    As soon as I get overtaken by a Rohloff bike be it with my geared bike or even the GF ss,...well I'll swap my singlespeed rearwheel with a Rohloff-wheel.

    After 4 years...it's always been the other way around.
    I'm a maintainance maniak, so rarely have to deal with low geartrain-effectivity.
    Mudbike is the SS, drier conditions mean geared fully or hardtail.
    Even my singlespeed gets thouroughly cleaned after every ride.
    I won't reveal where I ride, or the Rohloff racing team will prolly try to hunt me down

  57. #57
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    ... and if we just ... Life after Rohloff is Rohloff again!

    Well today I got My new Rohloff Hub (this time with Q/R) the Hub number's are almost the same!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Life after Rohloff-kicx2342.jpg  

    Life after Rohloff-kicx3373.jpg  


  58. #58
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    Made in Germany ;-)

    That's nice. Since I ride my first Rohloff I will never step back.
    In germany there is a new bike on the market scince 2-3 years, where the Rohloff is integrated inside the frame. And it is the only bike that lasts as a gravity bike.

    Tollwut integrates a shifting part of the hub in the frame.
    The Bike is called Tollwut Stonedigga

  59. #59
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    Tollwut Stonedigga with Rohloff Speedhub

    Here a pic of the Rohloff with special housing.




  60. #60
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    I love my two Rohloffs, my one Alfine 11 and four Alfine 8s. I'll never get rid of any of these hubs.

    IGHs are a great solution to a lot of MTB missions.

    That said I still ride some derailleur bikes. I don't see it like I have to choose only one type of drivetrain forever.

    Of course if you made me choose one I'd stick with a Rohloff.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  61. #61
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    Other than the slightly "steam punk" look of the Tollwut Stonedigga I like it.

  62. #62
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    Okay, I have to say will not give up my Rohloff(s). I have two fat bikes that are set up with Rohloff hubs that have made riding incredibly more enjoyable. I like to work on bikes, but hey, I don't like to on the trail. Fat bikes are designed to go in the most demanding environments and believe me the Rohloff is perfect for this app. I have tried a Nuvinci as well. It does not have enough low gear and dependability is lacking (broke 2). So, once you get used to how they (Rohloff) shift, you will be in love. I ride in snow, sand, water, hot, cold, you name it. I have never had a failure. Can't tell you how many times I had problems (especially sand and snow mix rides) where I had failures on my external drives. Yes, I take care of my equipment and even though you start out clean, you don't always finish that way. Also, I go out when I want as I have no weather deterrents for since switching to Rohloff. Yes Rohloff hubs are expensive, but add up all the chains, cogs, cassettes, derailleurs, shifters, and cables over say even a few seasons, not to mention your time fixing and cleaning- well one Rohloff is cheap in $ terms. And another thing, remember the last time you got stopped in the wrong gear on a hill on external geared drive? With a Rohloff twist the shifter and you have gear one immediately, thus most efficient in my opinion. BTW, I am over driving my hubs (not by much) and have no problems. Lastly, no I am not paid by Roholoff, but if they want to sponsor me, my answer would be a resounding yes!

  63. #63
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    Life after Rohloff

    I would love to have one BUT it is a ways out of my pay grade. I would buy one in an instant if I could find one at a doable price!





    Sent from magic wish granting phone

  64. #64
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    Haha 6 months ago I was saying I will never use dewangers on a mountain bike again....I have a rohloff (since 2006) and had it my old full susser, and put up with the unsprung weight affecting the suspension. loved the instant shift, shifting when not pedalling, the reliability. last year switched back to a hardtail for a change, and loved the lack of tensioner and no chain noise/slap.

    I switched between SS and Rohloff over the last 6 months as the mood took me...and SS felt so nice and smooth, no rumble and it felt like all my energy went to the tyre.

    But I would like suspension again at some point, so I bit the bullet and fitted a 1 x 10 dewanger setup on the hardtail to see if I can get on with dewangers again...yes there are the downsides I remember, but with a narrow wide chainring and clutch dewanger...things are a lot better than they used to be. I still donlt like dewangers...but the weight saving and smooth pedalling is nice.

    One day I will have a gear box full susser though....best of both worlds, with only the slight extra drag issue to deal with
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  65. #65
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    I'm still digging my Rohloff. I bought it in 2008 because I didn't like 3x9. 2x10 was an improvement but still had a front derailleur. Now with 1x and clutch derailleurs, I'll say I'm getting pretty tempted. I'll probably build up a light 1x someday, but I'm still liking my Rohloff.

    Is it just me or is my Rohloff slowly getting quieter and smoother?

  66. #66
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    Yeah I still love rohloffs...when I go full suss again I'll probably set the hardtail up rouhloff again.

    Yeah they do get better with age
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  67. #67
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    my A11 has zero detectable drag. it has yet to get its first oil change. On the stand on the wall, I can turn the cranks in any gear using just one finger. There was a bit of drag following the install due to a very slight misalignment between the chain and the rear cog -- lubrication and break in solved that.

    To put this in context, on my daily commute I can pretty much tell you the PSI of the rear tire within a couple pounds just based on how it affects ride drag. My best guess is that the A11 probably has *less* drag than standard drive train unless it is well lubricated and in perfect chain line.

  68. #68
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    What is an A11?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    What is an A11?
    Shimano Alfine 11 IGH
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  70. #70
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    Have they gotten those to where they're reliable yet?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Have they gotten those to where they're reliable yet?
    I haven't had a problem with my A8's [ x2] or my A11.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  72. #72
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    How do you use them?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    How do you use them?
    A8's = Surly Pugsley - a set on Flickr

    A11 = On One Scandal 29er - a set on Flickr
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  74. #74
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    This is an interesting discussion...
    --Peace

  75. #75
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    I started off first with a single speed then went all in for IGH.. I loved my Alfine 8. My 2nd one worked, it kept working, I serviced it myself and everything was cool for years… But two months ago, it needed to be serviced professionally. Shimano dealers didn’t seem keen; Shimano would not sell me the few bits I needed, not that I felt confident to “fully” strip the hub down beyond where I had before. The only reason I had two was I stripped the first one down and couldn’t get it back together.

    So my choices now were, to buy a new Alfine, possibly an 11 or go back old school. At this stage I should say I use my bike for about 60% off-road stuff and some technical trail stuff – so I weighed up the weight difference and in the end (cost wise, around £350ish, not much in it) I decided to buy a new rear derailleur set up as I already had a 44-34-22 three ring front mech setup with the Alfine.

    So one new Hope Evo Hub latter to match the front one, a very decent Rapid Rise XLR Rear Mech, new wheel build, decent chain and off I went. Well straight off, I was 1120g lighter (my Alfine weighed in at 1795g with all the bits), so that was all good, but having had an Alfine for – since they came out – and posting loads of positive things in this forum about them – I am loving the difference.

    I always found the IGH to be great, I would unpick mine every 5000 miles, re-grease it and run 50ml of decent auto-gearbox oil within and all was good until now – and that was really only due to the very high mileage and the rough off-road duties it had to perform that I have switched. Will I go back, probably not and only because I love the weight difference and the new found vigour I have to ride it on the road faster – I suspect the increase in speed is in part due to it being lighter but also the whole rolling efficiency of the overall setup.. turn it upside down, spin the wheel of an IGH and it is nothing, even when smooth, like a Freehub.

    I was also lucky to be able to sell the IGH as two separate parts and in two separate sales as I had the hub shell resprayed to match the colour of my bike (I found silver and black a small choice), so this offset the cost of the new parts.. what I miss is the comments from people asking me questions about the hub and what I thought of it and to that end, I will keep singing their praises.

  76. #76
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    New build

    I got my first Rohloff in 2001, my second in 2005. Just built a new bike this past May and used my "younger" one for my dirt set up.

    Nice to get caught up with what folks have been using their IGH on, I'm really intrigued by the low gear set ups! Riding here is Los Angeles I've only ran 42/16, I find I have enough power in my spindly legs to get up most climbs around here. I felt that if I gear it any lower I might as well walk the bike! Recently riding in Moab I found that I spun out my top gear on the Rim Trail, that surprised me! I don't think I'm that fast, lol

    Loved the tip about using Mobil 1 ATF! What do you use to clean out the hub before refilling it? I had sent my second hub to Rohloff's guy here in the States (soon after purchase in '05) who was located in Berkeley California (but I hear he's no longer a resource) and he informed me that the manufacturer of the oil used a different additive that caused the bushings inside to swell slightly causing the shifting problem I had. He swapped out the internals and basically sent me a new hub and said to not fill it all the way. Haven't had a problem with it since!

    The 2001 bike I've converted to a derailleur type and I can say I prefer the IGH for the gear change advantage, being that I'm not caught out in too tall of a gear with the quick changing terrain we've got here, and, there's the chain suck issue. I see my friends going to 1x11, I'm 1x14 so they've almost caught up!

    Life after Rohloff-img_1594a.jpgLife after Rohloff-img_1595a.jpg

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ApexMan View Post
    I got my first Rohloff in 2001, my second in 2005. Just built a new bike this past May and used my "younger" one for my dirt set up.

    Nice to get caught up with what folks have been using their IGH on, I'm really intrigued by the low gear set ups! Riding here is Los Angeles I've only ran 42/16, I find I have enough power in my spindly legs to get up most climbs around here. I felt that if I gear it any lower I might as well walk the bike! Recently riding in Moab I found that I spun out my top gear on the Rim Trail, that surprised me! I don't think I'm that fast, lol

    Loved the tip about using Mobil 1 ATF! What do you use to clean out the hub before refilling it? I had sent my second hub to Rohloff's guy here in the States (soon after purchase in '05) who was located in Berkeley California (but I hear he's no longer a resource) and he informed me that the manufacturer of the oil used a different additive that caused the bushings inside to swell slightly causing the shifting problem I had. He swapped out the internals and basically sent me a new hub and said to not fill it all the way. Haven't had a problem with it since!

    The 2001 bike I've converted to a derailleur type and I can say I prefer the IGH for the gear change advantage, being that I'm not caught out in too tall of a gear with the quick changing terrain we've got here, and, there's the chain suck issue. I see my friends going to 1x11, I'm 1x14 so they've almost caught up!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cycle Monkey here. We're the Rohloff guys you spoke to earlier. We're still in Berkeley and still a Rohloff resource! Glad to hear the hub is working well. Give us a call if you have any other questions.
    www.CycleMonkey.com
    Rohloff & Schlumpf gearing. Custom wheels. Suspension service.

  78. #78
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    Hey! Good to here from you guys! Found your website and now it's bookmarked, great to know I've got the pro contact again for my hubs! I know I still have your card... Last time I saw you was back at Interbike 2010, bummed I couldn't make it this year, hope you did!

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