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  1. #401
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    YESS told me the exact same thing. But every FS bike has a different amount of chain growth. If I were in your shoes, i'd definitely give it a try, If it doesn't eat enough slack, you can always resell it (possibly to me for my singlespeed park bike ) A static roller won't eat up the tension as the suspension travels though, you really need a spring. I ended up using YESS's other derailer replacement tensioner when I went IGH/SS on my Maverick. Works well but I'd definitely try the BB one. The tighter you make your chain, the easier a job the BB tensioner will have. Just make sure its not too sure. You don't want your chain to explode when you land a big drop. Also if you haven't already, I'd defintely ditch the "middle ring" with ramps and go with a stainless steel chainring with tall singlespeed teeth and no ramps. I never lots my chain with I ran IGH/SS with one of those, and no front guide at all aside from a bash guard. And even now, I run a 1x9 short cage with the surly SS chainring up front and no guide, and I lots my chain one time in a season of aggressive riding. Everyone I ride with has these elaborate chain guides, and they all lose their chain more than me.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    YESS told me the exact same thing. But every FS bike has a different amount of chain growth. If I were in your shoes, i'd definitely give it a try, If it doesn't eat enough slack, you can always resell it (possibly to me for my singlespeed park bike ) A static roller won't eat up the tension as the suspension travels though, you really need a spring. I ended up using YESS's other derailer replacement tensioner when I went IGH/SS on my Maverick. Works well but I'd definitely try the BB one. The tighter you make your chain, the easier a job the BB tensioner will have. Just make sure its not too sure. You don't want your chain to explode when you land a big drop. Also if you haven't already, I'd defintely ditch the "middle ring" with ramps and go with a stainless steel chainring with tall singlespeed teeth and no ramps. I never lots my chain with I ran IGH/SS with one of those, and no front guide at all aside from a bash guard. And even now, I run a 1x9 short cage with the surly SS chainring up front and no guide, and I lots my chain one time in a season of aggressive riding. Everyone I ride with has these elaborate chain guides, and they all lose their chain more than me.
    A spring loaded front roller is definitely what I'm going to end up with. I just attempted the static roller as an experiment. I thought it wouldn't work, but wanted to see it physically not work, instead of visualizing.

    I will be running a ramp-less single speed ring, for sure. I was looking at the E-13 rings, because it has a ledge designed to help keep the chain on. You recommend the Surly SS? I was definitely looking for taller teeth, like you mentioned...hoping the E-13 has taller teeth. Chromag offers a single ring with taller teeth, but those are expensive.

  3. #403
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    Yeah I use the Surly and it's been great. Plus it's steel so it's very strong. Very little wear after a full season of riding. Compared to the aluminum middle ring of a 3x9 setup, where the middle ring is so worn after half a season, that it needs to be replaced. I don't know about the E13 rings though, they may be good too. I actually have a 36t surly i could sell you, it's practically new. Most people go with 32 though, and since you don't have chainstays to look out for, you'll probably want 32t.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Yeah I use the Surly and it's been great. Plus it's steel so it's very strong. Very little wear after a full season of riding. Compared to the aluminum middle ring of a 3x9 setup, where the middle ring is so worn after half a season, that it needs to be replaced. I don't know about the E13 rings though, they may be good too. I actually have a 36t surly i could sell you, it's practically new. Most people go with 32 though, and since you don't have chainstays to look out for, you'll probably want 32t.
    I have some SLX cranks on order, with a 36T middle ring. I want to see if a 36T helps my situation. With the 32t, the tension roller puts the lower chain awfully close to the upper chain, to the point that they might hit each other. I'm hoping a 36T will create more room, take up the extra slack and prevent that from happening.

    Once I get all that dialed in, I'm going to order a proper chainring, and one of those rear Alfine cogs, with the plastic chain guide. I don't plan on running a front elaborate chainguide, either. I'm hoping that a proper, straight chainline, the Alfine rear cog and a tall toothed rampless front ring will keep my chain on...plus, a lot of constant tension from that lower BB sprung-roller.

    I'm going to attempt to make my own, with a longer swing arm than the YESS device, by placing the pivot closer to the BB. Thinking that will give me more tension travel.

  5. #405
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    btw, for all you wheel builders out there, I originally laced the wheel wrong, with brake tension spokes elbows out (as shown in above picture)... Luckily I caught this before tensioning the wheel. I have since re-laced and finished the wheel correctly with brake tension spokes elbows in.... laces out!

  6. #406
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    Installed 11 spd alfine a week ago and love it so far! 36X20t...

  7. #407
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    I've made a thread for my new build , but here it goes here too !
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    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    I've made a thread for my new build , but here it goes here too !
    I can't use the old line of "great minds think alike" as I'm not one, but there's some real similarity here. I just retrofitted my almost-9-year-old Rohloff'd Black Sheep using a VeloSwap-pickup Lefty Carbon SL/MendonCycle Smith overhaul/Project 321 adapter. The rear wheel will continue to be run as a V-brake, so I've got a mullet setup for brakes, but the balance between the brakes is still great. It weighs 26.2 lbs with pedals. My son's Lefty-equipped Cannodale Caffeine comes in at 24.5 lbs, but the weight savings doesn't make up for the real-world wonders of the Rohloff.
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  9. #409
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    Nice ride !!!
    Got to love those Lefty , ain't it right ?
    They are solo damn smooth , with a Ti frame , It's even smoother than any Carbon frame I've tried , I'm really impressed. It's my first Ti.

    Mine is 23,1 lbs with those tires. i could loose a pound by swapping the Brooks but my butt is worth that extra pound anytime !!



    BTW : Mendon is the Man !!! He's the only guy touching my forks when I can't do it.
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  10. #410
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    The Nickel Lives!!!

    I have completed the build on the Nickel. I have developed a new BB mounted, spring loaded chain tension device, that works on elevated chainstay frames, with internally geared hubs.
    If anybody is interested in having one made, feel free to PM me.

    The homemade prototype is working great, with no dropped chains and no chain slap...the bike is whisper quite on the trails, climbs great and is a lot of fun for bounding, shocking and gnarling.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-121204-nickel8.jpg  

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  11. #411
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    Looks awesome. The dainty little springs found on most dropout tensioners don't hold up well at all. Good idea using a heftier one. Its probably a LOT less likely to break or lose it's tension. Sweet bike too.

  12. #412
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    Looks great, and nice work on the tensioner. I've tried a Yess ETR-B, you made the right call. Very lackluster tension from that unit.

    It's too bad, the Yess ETR-V is pretty awesome. I just don't like the placement, it's essentially a derailleur.
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  13. #413
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    yes, that is a fine looking ride.

    question though, do you need that much extra chain for the suspension travel?

    or is it a situation where removing another link is too much?
    occasional cyclist

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by dru View Post
    yes, that is a fine looking ride.

    question though, do you need that much extra chain for the suspension travel?

    or is it a situation where removing another link is too much?

    Thanks for the compliments! Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the chain tensioner. The tension spring is a nice gauge and pretty strong. I certainly wanted strong tension, but it doesn't seem like it's too strong. It took some trial and error, selecting the spring and the location that I bolted the spring. I initially used a longer spring, that attached further out on the swing arm, but this created way too much tension. A shorter spring mounted half way on the arm works perfectly.

    The extra chain length is for the suspension travel. If I removed a link, the chain would be too short at full travel. Also, chainring diameter influences this. A 32T ring creates too much slack. A 36T, the chain is too short. A 34T chainring seems to work just right.

    I might try a 30T, if I can find one, and remove a full link...if I feel the need for a lower gear.

    After riding some rocky trails, I have declared my homemade chain tensioner a success, with no dropped chains and no chain slap.

  15. #415
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    Sriracha, is this your 1st IGH? If so, time will tell as to getting hooked. Personally I love the clean look, and resistance to crash damage.

    Gotta get me a fully one of these days. They look like fun in the rough stuff.
    occasional cyclist

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    Srirach, have you considered the use of a half link to achieve a 'near perfect' chain length? I used one with a HT with vertical drop outs and did not use a tensioner until the chain stretched. No chain drops, but the back wheel was most certainly stationary!

  17. #417
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    It looks like he could actually remove at least one full link and still have plenty of chain for the full suspension path.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    The extra chain length is for the suspension travel. If I removed a link, the chain would be too short at full travel. Also, chainring diameter influences this. A 32T ring creates too much slack. A 36T, the chain is too short. A 34T chainring seems to work just right.

    I might try a 30T, if I can find one, and remove a full link...if I feel the need for a lower gear.
    You may want to go with the 30T or 32T as a starting point then change the rear cog to taste. And yea, if you find the perfect riding ratio but there's just a touch too much chain then a half link works great. I use one on my magicgear setup with vertical dropouts.

    Personally, I would use a 10T chainring if I could - more BB clearance. But there is no cog small enough for even a 22T chainring that would give a useable gear ratio. I guess I'll have to wait until someone invents a lightweight and durable driveshaft system. ;-)

  19. #419
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    Hey nice build. I'm trying also to build a bike with an alfine 11 or 8. With drop bars road gear shifter. Do they word well? Any recomendation about what to use?

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    You may want to go with the 30T or 32T as a starting point then change the rear cog to taste. And yea, if you find the perfect riding ratio but there's just a touch too much chain then a half link works great. I use one on my magicgear setup with vertical dropouts.

    Personally, I would use a 10T chainring if I could - more BB clearance. But there is no cog small enough for even a 22T chainring that would give a useable gear ratio. I guess I'll have to wait until someone invents a lightweight and durable driveshaft system. ;-)
    I figured out a way to use a 32T chainring, and still take up the extra slack, without the top and bottom chains touching.

    I will have to position the idler pulley closer to the chainring, on the swing-arm, and also use a 13T Dura-ace pulley.

    I could certainly use that extra climbing gear.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by dru View Post
    Sriracha, is this your 1st IGH? If so, time will tell as to getting hooked. Personally I love the clean look, and resistance to crash damage.

    Gotta get me a fully one of these days. They look like fun in the rough stuff.
    No, this is my 3rd IGH...I am definitely hooked!

    I first put an Alfine-8 on my Karate Monkey, roughy two years ago. I haven't had a single problem with that hub. After the initial cable stretch, I haven't had to touch it. It's probably due for a rebuild.

    I then bolted a Shimano Nexus 3-speed disc IGH on my vintage road bike. I really like that hub too, it's just too bad it has that bell-crank cable pick-up on the outside of the frame. I love how low profile the Alfine-8 is.

    I've always wanted an IGH on my full-suspension bikes, but the dropouts wouldn't allow it. When I saw this Santa Cruz Nickel frame for sale on a crazy closeout deal (still going, only $600!!!), and realized the dropouts would allow an IGH, I went for it.

    ...then, after looking at the bike, I realized I could create a new kind of bottom bracket spring-loaded tensioner. Allowed by the elevated chainstays, I am able to take up a lot more slack than a traditional frame.

  22. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    Srirach, have you considered the use of a half link to achieve a 'near perfect' chain length? I used one with a HT with vertical drop outs and did not use a tensioner until the chain stretched. No chain drops, but the back wheel was most certainly stationary!
    I considered it, but I am a Wipperman fan-boi. They don't offer a half-link for Wipperman chains, and for some reason, I don't want to use another brand's half-link....wouldn't that cause problems, mixing brands, in a chain?

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    It looks like he could actually remove at least one full link and still have plenty of chain for the full suspension path.
    Maybe if the chain stretches and the chainring teeth wear in a bit. It's really close. It's more like, if I removed 3/4 link, the chain length would be perfect. If I removed a full link, it would be 1/4 link too short.

  24. #424
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    Gold...well, brass plated, 9-speed Wipperman chain dropped 120grams over the single speed chain I was initially using.

    After some test rides on rougher trails, and still no dropped chains, I have declared this spring loaded tensioner a success!

    Time to develop version 2. I'm going to use a 13T Dura-Ace pulley, for the idler. Revise the design a little bit and see if I can get the weight down without sacrificing beefy-ness. The pulley alone will drop 30 grams over the double-bearing roller. Going to try to remove 100grams total from the tensioner.
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  25. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Maybe if the chain stretches and the chainring teeth wear in a bit. It's really close. It's more like, if I removed 3/4 link, the chain length would be perfect. If I removed a full link, it would be 1/4 link too short.
    In that case I'd definitely go with a half link.

  26. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    In that case I'd definitely go with a half link.
    Are the half links interchangeable between brands? Can I use a KMC half link on a Wipperman chain?
    I was under the impression that frankenchains were not ideal.

  27. #427
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    All chains have the same link length so they should all work. The only issues might be plate thickness. The real issue with halflinks is that you are putting a pin back in your chain to install it, which in theory makes it a weak point. I think KMC makes some interesting half links that solve that problem, they have a little cotter pin on the the chain pin. You need more clearance for the chain but it looks like you have plenty of space. And just put all that stuff on the inside of the chain so it doesn't take your skin off.

  28. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    All chains have the same link length so they should all work. The only issues might be plate thickness. The real issue with halflinks is that you are putting a pin back in your chain to install it, which in theory makes it a weak point. I think KMC makes some interesting half links that solve that problem, they have a little cotter pin on the the chain pin. You need more clearance for the chain but it looks like you have plenty of space. And just put all that stuff on the inside of the chain so it doesn't take your skin off.

    I might pick up a half link, but I think I can pull this off by repositioning the idler pulley, and using a larger 13T Dura-Ace pulley.

  29. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    I might pick up a half link, but I think I can pull this off by repositioning the idler pulley, and using a larger 13T Dura-Ace pulley.
    I use a YESS rear mounted tensioner when I convert my ML8 to singlespeed for downhilling. I find the sound of the chain going over the smooth coaster annoying. I was also using that tensioner for the few months I had an Alfine 11. If you could put a toothed tensioner pulley, that's what I'd prefer if I had that setup. Much smoother and quieter.

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    I use a YESS rear mounted tensioner when I convert my ML8 to singlespeed for downhilling. I find the sound of the chain going over the smooth coaster annoying. I was also using that tensioner for the few months I had an Alfine 11. If you could put a toothed tensioner pulley, that's what I'd prefer if I had that setup. Much smoother and quieter.
    Nice!

    Yeah, I'm going to be putting the 13 tooth pulley on, instead of the roller. Looking at a chain, it seems they are designed to ride on the bushing surrounding the pin, not the outer links. I'm hoping there will be a little less friction with a pulley.

    If rollers were superior, you'd think they would use them in some way, on a derailleur...and a lot of chain guide companies use idler pulleys, instead of rollers.

  31. #431
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    Yeah generally they use gears on pieces that can be adjusted to line up perfectly with your chain line, and rollers for parts that are not adjustable. Thats why my Yess tensioner has both. The "lower" pulley is adjustable and is a gear, the upper is not adjustable so its just a roller. The other thing I was thinking is that if you do a half link (which I think you should do), that's going to change the location of your tensioner arm and so you'll have to re calibrate it's spring.

  32. #432
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    I can dial in the exact chainline of the pulley, with washers. Currently, tension of the device is increased or decreased by "clocking" it around the bottom bracket mount, and re-tightening the BB. Still in prototype mode, but it works.

    Surprisingly, the idler swing-arm doesn't have to move that much. Since I'm pushing the chain upward, this decreases the difference in chain growth, as the axle moves up...because the lower chain is a hypotenuse, it shortens a bit as it levels off.

  33. #433
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    You ought to take your rear shock out, and post a short video of the system slowly working through all of the bike's travel.

  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    You ought to take your rear shock out, and post a short video of the system slowly working through all of the bike's travel.
    That's a good idea. I will do that, when I finish the revised version, with 32T chainring, 13T idler pulley and trimmed bits.

  35. #435
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    If you think about it, a tensioner that pushes down, like the Yess tensioner, or a Surly Singulator attached to the derailleur hanger pushing down, is always moving up to release more chain. This requires even more chain length and more movement of the tensioner.

    Mine flexes down to release more chain, as the axle moves up. The most it moves down is at an angle up from horizontal, at full bottom out.

  36. #436
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    Hi Chaps,

    Here is my new Rohloff equipped steed



    The frame is steel (853 main tubes) and was built by a friend of mine who is just starting up a frame building company called Swarf Cycles.

    I am chuffed to bits with it to say the least. I have had my rohloff for about 6 years, I ran it on a full sus bike with a tensioner, but it is so nice running it with a dedicated frame with out any springy tensioners

    Stu
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  37. #437
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    Nice!

    Is that a KS Lev that I see as the seatpost? (I'm a telescoping post fan, so kudos if so.)
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  38. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Nice!

    Is that a KS Lev that I see as the seatpost? (I'm a telescoping post fan, so kudos if so.)
    Cheers . Yes it is....at first before using a dropper I was like what's the point...they are heavyer and I need to know where the bike is by feeling the saddle on my thigh.....then I tried one and realised I was just plain wrong ....best thing to happen to my riding in years . Amazing how moving the saddle away from your balls at will helps give you more balls
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  39. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart B View Post
    Cheers . Yes it is....at first before using a dropper I was like what's the point...they are heavyer and I need to know where the bike is by feeling the saddle on my thigh.....then I tried one and realised I was just plain wrong ....best thing to happen to my riding in years . Amazing how moving the saddle away from your balls at will helps give you more balls
    Thanks for that feedback dude. I only accept criticism of telescoping posts from people who've actually tried one. I think the naysayers who haven't ridden hard on one are just ridiculing change, and don't know what they're missing.

    Hell, my cornering improved with a dropper post. Amazing.

    Sorry for off-topic! Sweet bike dude.
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  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    Thanks for that feedback dude. I only accept criticism of telescoping posts from people who've actually tried one. I think the naysayers who haven't ridden hard on one are just ridiculing change, and don't know what they're missing.

    Hell, my cornering improved with a dropper post. Amazing.

    Sorry for off-topic! Sweet bike dude.
    lol, nothing wrong with spreading the dropper post love

    I like it
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Diller View Post
    I finished my 3rd DIY bike frame. Some custom Lefty clamps from MendonCycleSmith and an old clamp style Lefty give a 17.5mm *reverse* Pugsley style axle offset. It's like the Pug's rear end, just the other way. It gives enough clearance to stuff a fat tire on the front.

    I like the Alfine so far. The clutch feeling is a little weird, but not bad weird.



    Allow me to return the compliment....that is bonkers....like it!!!
    What exactly is a rigid hard tail?

  42. #442
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    double post

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    Currently in winter campus cruzer mode right now.



    Last edited by C9ollie; 12-17-2012 at 05:38 PM. Reason: formatting

  44. #444
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    Kinesis Decade Virsa Prestige

    16in frame (rider is only 5'7")
    Alfine8 on Mavic 26in EN521's
    Deore hydro's
    running 32:22

    after only recently converting from singlespeed I'm wondering if hub is a bit heavy and I be better off with a nexus sg-3d55 that i've now found out about
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    GT peace alfine 8

    small gt peace 26in
    alfine8 on Mavic XM719's
    32:23
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-gt-peace-alfine8.jpg  


  46. #446
    mtbr member
    Reputation: LukeSPOOK's Avatar
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    Nice bike - you will probably get used to the weight - just don't focus on it.
    I have used a Nexus 3 speed and its not too bad - just not quite as robust as the Alfine 8.

  47. #447
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    Mc sin

    Mountain Cycle SIN frame, Marzocchi 66 front, Marzocchi Rocco rear, Crank Bros seatpost, speedhub & DMR revolver front hub, Magura Gustav brakes, Raceface DH cranks & 36T ring, custom rockring, TIME FR pedals, Maxxis Minion DH 2,7 front & rear tires, old Mavic 321 rims... Spank (!!!) bar & stem, Chris King steelset headset.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-11-04-2012-low.jpg  


  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekrutacja View Post
    My Marin finally got his new chain tensioner. Chain tensioner was provided by Speedskater (thank you!) Fitting it was not easy (i have now 4 different octalink supports and one destroyed crank :-) and tolerances are very tight, but it works and looks good.

    Could you not make an ISCG, Bottom Bracket or bottom linkage mounted idler to get rid of that bikes chain suck while you were at it. You could run a shorter chain then, and have less slack needed to be taken up.

  49. #449
    rollin
    Reputation: sriracha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rekrutacja View Post
    My Marin finally got his new chain tensioner. Chain tensioner was provided by Speedskater (thank you!) Fitting it was not easy (i have now 4 different octalink supports and one destroyed crank :-) and tolerances are very tight, but it works and looks good.


    crazy! I never saw this bike until now, and I coincidentally did the same thing on my Nickel. Who is Speedskater?

  50. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by sriracha View Post

    What's the story with the brake adapter, I hope you've put the proper size adapter on since that photo was taken as you don't seem to have much pad/rotor contact.

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