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  1. #501
    saddlemeat
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    [QUOTE=kustomz;10421256]bsieb, thanks for the details. I am not sure why I am so hung up on an IGH? Especially when my 1x9 Deore works absolutely flawless, but this helps me know that I am on the right track cost wise. Decisions, decisions...[/QUOTE

    I find that the IGH works well. It has some idiosyncrasies, like backwards shifting, can't shift under pressure, some gears make a little noise, and the available shifters are disappointingly cheesy. Mostly just things to get used to in return for a geared low maintenance drive train.
    A Useful Bear is a handy thing.

  2. #502
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    I'd gladly share what I have. I just need to find a spring to return the thumb shifter, the one that came with it won't work. I have attached some pictures describing how it works. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers.
    Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-img_20130527_200500.jpgInternal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-img_20130527_200521.jpgInternal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-img_20130527_200552.jpg

  3. #503
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    I will post some outdoor photos shortly. The bike weights 18.2 lbs right now but I still have to add the front wheel (the one on there now is pretty heavy) and change out the shifter. I anticipate it will be somewhere in the 17s..

  4. #504
    Manchester, England
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnybags View Post
    Hiya. I hope you realise what you have done if you get a brifter working with a Rohloff?!!!! If you can let me know how you did it or do another one, I would buy it from you! There are a LOT of people itching to get their hands on one and NOBODY is making any!
    What jonny has said !
    The shifting is the 1st thing that I'd change on my Rohloff.

    .

  5. #505
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    That makes a lot of sense - however my own skills do not reach to this. If it works, would you be able to adapt another unit for me? Beyond that, if you create a blueprint/patent, you would have a decent shot at production runs and making some money/refining the unit to be a purpose built one. Also, only a kilo over UCI weight limit is an epic bike!

    Just think of the acceleration on the thing using the sequential possibilities of the hub!

  6. #506
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    Recently upgraded my bike, had an IGH before but since last posting here is the latest incarnation..

    I decided that I wanted the dull black hub to match my red front hub and the red theme on the bike, so after a strip down and service of the internals - I had it resprayed.. I am pleased with the end results.





    All built up and using the Shimano Centre Lock was able to fit my Hope 203mm rotors.


    Opted to run a triple ring up front (44-36-22) on a 18T rear ring. I find these ratios give me everything I need - I had previously tried 42-32-26 on a 20T but found the ratios not spaced out enough for my riding style.. most of the time it is in the middle ring (36) but overall I now have 3 extra gears below and two extra above my middle ring. An 11 speed Alfine would cure this but better the devil you know..



    All in all the bike does just I have always wanted - 60% of my riding is off road and off road it gets riden hard but other than a few rider errors and accidents, everything has served me very well.

    Weight wise, on a back to back (rear wheel only) I am giving up 0.9Kg over a non IGH dérailleur system and when I add in the batteries to run my monster lighting system, then at 17.4Kg, I can live with that.

    FULL SPEC..
    * Frame: ROCKY MOUNTAIN ALTITUDE CR90
    * Fork: X-FUSION VENGEANCE 170 HLR
    * Shock: FOX Float RP23 (PUSHED)
    * Brakes: HOPE 203mm M6 & M4 – CERAMIC PADS
    * Cranks: SHIMANO SLX
    * Front Mech: SHIMANO DIRECT MOUNT
    * Rear Mech: SHIMANO ALFINE 8-speed
    * Pedals: CRANK BRO ACID 3
    * Stem: EASTON MTB Vice
    * Handlebar: EASTON
    * Seatpost: RACEFACE TURBINE
    * Saddle: SELLE ITALIA
    * Bottom Bracket: HOPE 68mm CERAMIC
    * Headset: HOPE + 2x Head Doctors
    * Front Tire: MAXXIS ADVANTAGE 2.40
    * Front Rim: BRAVE DLUX 32mm
    * Front Hub/Skewer: HOPE PRO II (20mm conversion)
    * Rear Tire: MAXXIS ADVANATAGE 2.25
    * Rear Rim: BRAVE DLUX 32mm
    * Weight 17.4Kg (with two sets of lights and 8x Li-ion batteries)

    In this guise and with the bike's overall geometry, it flies on the flat, climbs well though there is a tendency to lift up at the front - but this makes clearing obstructions easy but on the way back down, it is very sure of itself and is much more planted without having to stick my bum out too far.
    Last edited by EFMax; 07-29-2013 at 03:59 AM.

  7. #507
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    Hiya - got to say I'm itching to see how your build (ESPECIALLY THE SHIFTER!!!) is going! What news do you have?

  8. #508
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    here is mine

  9. #509
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    It's not an IGH, but a gearbox - Nicolai Helius AC Pinion.


  10. #510
    dru
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    Oh you suck! I so want one of those!

    Drew
    occasional cyclist

  11. #511
    Music & Bikes
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    How do you like the Pinion ?
    Can you compare to IGH ?
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    How do you like the Pinion ?
    Can you compare to IGH ?
    A Pinion gearbox review...

    The reason I went for a Pinion gearbox was because I went through a period of 18 months where I destroyed 6 rear derailleurs on the different bikes by either catching sticks in them or in one case slipping between some rocks and wedging the derailleur in between. The other option was Rohloff IGH but I didn't like the idea of the weight being located at the wheel. So I waited nearly 8 months for a frame with a Pinion gearbox.

    The set up was pretty straight forward. I gave it to the bike shop and they did it! The mechanic who worked on it said it was okay except for trying to grab the ends of the cable to secure when there is very little space available. The frame came with the cable already threaded through the gearbox.

    After the first ride I adjusted the cable tension at home. I thought it would be a good idea to set it up myself to make sure I could do it. The instructions were very clear, with excellent diagrams. The cable is a single piece about 3m long. I did not go through the process of winding it though the gearbox but it looks easy enough. I secured the cables at the shifter, as per the instructions, and it all worked well. There is very little space in the shifter for grabbing the cable ends, especially after they have already been cut. I had to grab the end with some tweezers, then some long nose pliers to pull them firmly and them tighten the clamp up. Overall, about a 15 minute job including removing and replacing the cover. The barrel adjusters have to be in a specific location to start with and they have plenty of thread on them to adjust in both directions as needed.

    All of the online reviews I'd read discussed shifting to an easier gear had to be done by reducing the load on the pedals. This didn't quite prepare me for the change in technique I'd have to make. You can shift to an easier gear under a very, very slight load, but generally you have to back off completely. It's taken me a few rides to get used to and I was very skeptical about how it would ride in technical terrain, but I didn't miss a shift on the last techy ride I did. You do lose a little momentum when climbing and trying to shift, but it's about the same as when I'd shift a derailleur now. Shifting to a harder gear can be done at any time without any issues.

    There is a little bit of noise in the 7th and 13th gears. A quiet clicking. This is discussed in the manual as being normal and it doesn't seem to affect the performance at all. It isn't distracting either. There is also a distinct feel of the gear engaging when you start pedalling. If I have been rolling along and then start pedalling you can feel the gears engage again. This is apparently normal as well, just a little odd feeling after riding derailleurs for so long.

    The shifter itself feels really well made. I haven't used gripshift since Gripshift was the actual brand! It took no time at all to get used to. 2 minutes in and I was shifting freely in the correct direction each time. The change between gears is a consistent 11.5% and changes are almost undetectable! It is super smooth. The ratios all feel good so far without feeling like a jump has been too large or too small between gears. Low gear is low enough to climb everything I would normally climb when my Firebird was set up 1x10 (32t chainring 11-36 cassette) and with the 2x10 Liteville (26/38 chainrings 11-36 cassette). The other end of the gear range is sufficient for fats fireroad stuff as well.

    The weight of the gearbox is located low in the frame and the only time I really feel it is when trying to lift the rear wheel. It's not the same heavy feeling of a Rohloff at the rear wheel, but it's a noticeable difference to a standard rear derailleur. Changing direction quickly doesn't seem to be affected by the position or weight of the gearbox. It actually feels a bit more stable when plowing through rougher stuff.

    The whole unit feels very stiff as well. I can't feel any flex in the cranks coming from Shimano Saints and XTR cranks on the other bikes. The bb area feels very firm. I do think that the gearbox has had an affect on the rear tyre size I can run, as the position of the bb pivot has been moved slightly from the regular model frame to accomodate the gearbox and the 2.2" Conti RQ/TK doesn't have heaps of extra space like the Liteville or Firebird have. I wouldn't run a larger tyre in the rear due to the space, but I wouldn't run a larger rear tyre anyhow.

    Being able to shift without pedalling is a great feature. I can go into a corner in whatever gear I want and come out in the right gear for that surprise pinch climb that has popped up. It can change as many gears at once as you can shift.

    So overall, I can't see me going back to a regular derailleur if I don't have to! If Pinion or someone else was able to keep the current or expand the gear range in a lighter weight package that would be fantastic. If something could be retrofitted to current frame designs and maintain the stiffness and functionality that would be great too. A light weight version for road bikes would even see me move away from Di2! The only negative for me has been getting used to shifting under load but now that is all good.

    Gearboxes have to be the way forward. I was hoping for a full carbon Firebird with a Pinion gearbox, but the Nicolai has certainly done a great job replacing the old Firebird.

  13. #513
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    [QUOTE=bsieb;10424757]
    Quote Originally Posted by kustomz View Post
    bsieb, thanks for the details. I am not sure why I am so hung up on an IGH? Especially when my 1x9 Deore works absolutely flawless, but this helps me know that I am on the right track cost wise. Decisions, decisions...[/QUOTE

    I find that the IGH works well. the available shifters are disappointingly cheesy.
    Not all of them.....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-zerode-shifter-2.jpg  

    Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-zerode-shifter-1.jpg  


  14. #514
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    Just finished an Alfine 8-speed hub install (by my LBS) on my Norco Judan. The Gates belt drive system did not work with the Alfine hub. No amount of tweaking could get proper alignment from front chainring to rear cog and the belt just wouldn't stay on after many tries. So... I went to chain... New X9 crankset 170mm plus a 30-tooth mrp bling ring. It works like a charm!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-bht_8004.jpg  


  15. #515
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    For shifter options there is also Zerodebikes - , SRAlfine shifter

    Wish I knew about them before buying a grip then a trigger and being disappointed with both.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by OFFcourse View Post
    For shifter options there is also Zerodebikes - , SRAlfine shifter

    Wish I knew about them before buying a grip then a trigger and being disappointed with both.
    That's what I'm using - photos a couple of posts up ^^

  17. #517
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    [URL=http://s70.photobucket.com/user/2088bob/media/newbikes010.jpg.html][/URL]bob/newbikes008.jpg[/IMG]


    this is my other IGH bike this is my in town cruiser and shopping bike I use it to pull one of my many trailers sturmey 3 speed coaster but use the v brake to help when trailer load is heavy


  18. #518
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    My Kona Unit with Alfine s700:
    Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-2013-09-15-13.06.55.jpg
    Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!-2013-09-14-16.29.37.jpg

  19. #519
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    Nice! I've got a '13 Kona Unit too. How does it ride compared to standard? I was considering going Alfine but not sure how all that weight on the rear would feel.

  20. #520
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    Well, you can feel the added weight in the back, but the lighter rim with tubeless tyre definetely makes feel the bike more responsive.
    When you try to go uphill, or downhill or whatever, the single speed has no match to the 11 speed hub.

    At the moment, I am only concerned it seems there is some oil leaking, I am going to make the hub oil service and see how much is still inside, before I worry too much...

  21. #521
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    Internal Hub MTBs, post yours here!

    My Carver 420Ti c-w Marzoch Corsa Superlegarra (don't you just love the Italians) fork; Truvativ carbon cranks & seat post; XT brakes.

    Took awhile to get used to the tall BB and short chain stays, but it's a fun bike!


  22. #522
    They see me rolling.
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    Quick Question.

    Hey all,

    I don't have an IGH bike yet, but am almost certain that my next rig will have one. I am thinking of going with an Alfine 8. I have never had a hub with a threaded axle before; Can those of you who have been using an Alfine long term (specifically in a steel frame with vertical dropouts) chime in as to whether or not the axle causes any damage to the dropouts? Superficial or otherwise?

    Thanks a bunch.

  23. #523
    Unhinged Aussie on a 29er
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJS95 View Post
    Hey all,

    I don't have an IGH bike yet, but am almost certain that my next rig will have one. I am thinking of going with an Alfine 8. I have never had a hub with a threaded axle before; Can those of you who have been using an Alfine long term (specifically in a steel frame with vertical dropouts) chime in as to whether or not the axle causes any damage to the dropouts? Superficial or otherwise?

    Thanks a bunch.
    Yup. At the very least, it will strip the paint at the points where the nuts contact the frame. Typically that's the end of it and it's not really compromising the frame even over a very long time period.

    The exception to this is you have a frame where the manufacturer made a mistake, e.g. the Kona Bike had horizontal fork ends, but the fork ends were not steel plated or steel reinforced (i.e. steel plates bolted to an Aluminium frame, as they did on the Kona Major One). As such the bolts would bite in to the aluminium, which was too soft, and would just strip the frame down repeatedly when you pedaled hard, and the hub would move forward. That would eventually destroy the dropout over a very long period of time. That kind of mistake is pretty rare though.

    EDIT: Now that Surly has the Hurdy Gurdy (new for 2014), if this was happening to you on horizontal dropouts you could use a Hurdy Gurdy to hold it in place and not worry about it anymore.

  24. #524
    They see me rolling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter006 View Post
    Yup. At the very least, it will strip the paint at the points where the nuts contact the frame. Typically that's the end of it and it's not really compromising the frame even over a very long time period.

    The exception to this is you have a frame where the manufacturer made a mistake, e.g. the Kona Bike had horizontal fork ends, but the fork ends were not steel plated or steel reinforced (i.e. steel plates bolted to an Aluminium frame, as they did on the Kona Major One). As such the bolts would bite in to the aluminium, which was too soft, and would just strip the frame down repeatedly when you pedaled hard, and the hub would move forward. That would eventually destroy the dropout over a very long period of time. That kind of mistake is pretty rare though.

    EDIT: Now that Surly has the Hurdy Gurdy (new for 2014), if this was happening to you on horizontal dropouts you could use a Hurdy Gurdy to hold it in place and not worry about it anymore.
    Thanks very much, I appreciate the response. Any input as to whether the threads of the axle itself (rather than the axle nuts) dig into the dropouts at all? This again would be for a steel frame with vertical dropouts.

    Thanks.

  25. #525
    dru
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    No, they don't. My Alfine's been on a Salsa El Mar since '09. Frame's fine, no damage from the hub.

    Drew
    occasional cyclist

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