• 11-07-2012
    fellsbiker
    YESS told me the exact same thing. But every FS bike has a different amount of chain growth. If I were in your shoes, i'd definitely give it a try, If it doesn't eat enough slack, you can always resell it (possibly to me for my singlespeed park bike :) ) A static roller won't eat up the tension as the suspension travels though, you really need a spring. I ended up using YESS's other derailer replacement tensioner when I went IGH/SS on my Maverick. Works well but I'd definitely try the BB one. The tighter you make your chain, the easier a job the BB tensioner will have. Just make sure its not too sure. You don't want your chain to explode when you land a big drop. Also if you haven't already, I'd defintely ditch the "middle ring" with ramps and go with a stainless steel chainring with tall singlespeed teeth and no ramps. I never lots my chain with I ran IGH/SS with one of those, and no front guide at all aside from a bash guard. And even now, I run a 1x9 short cage with the surly SS chainring up front and no guide, and I lots my chain one time in a season of aggressive riding. Everyone I ride with has these elaborate chain guides, and they all lose their chain more than me.
  • 11-07-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    YESS told me the exact same thing. But every FS bike has a different amount of chain growth. If I were in your shoes, i'd definitely give it a try, If it doesn't eat enough slack, you can always resell it (possibly to me for my singlespeed park bike :) ) A static roller won't eat up the tension as the suspension travels though, you really need a spring. I ended up using YESS's other derailer replacement tensioner when I went IGH/SS on my Maverick. Works well but I'd definitely try the BB one. The tighter you make your chain, the easier a job the BB tensioner will have. Just make sure its not too sure. You don't want your chain to explode when you land a big drop. Also if you haven't already, I'd defintely ditch the "middle ring" with ramps and go with a stainless steel chainring with tall singlespeed teeth and no ramps. I never lots my chain with I ran IGH/SS with one of those, and no front guide at all aside from a bash guard. And even now, I run a 1x9 short cage with the surly SS chainring up front and no guide, and I lots my chain one time in a season of aggressive riding. Everyone I ride with has these elaborate chain guides, and they all lose their chain more than me.

    A spring loaded front roller is definitely what I'm going to end up with. I just attempted the static roller as an experiment. I thought it wouldn't work, but wanted to see it physically not work, instead of visualizing.

    I will be running a ramp-less single speed ring, for sure. I was looking at the E-13 rings, because it has a ledge designed to help keep the chain on. You recommend the Surly SS? I was definitely looking for taller teeth, like you mentioned...hoping the E-13 has taller teeth. Chromag offers a single ring with taller teeth, but those are expensive.
  • 11-07-2012
    fellsbiker
    Yeah I use the Surly and it's been great. Plus it's steel so it's very strong. Very little wear after a full season of riding. Compared to the aluminum middle ring of a 3x9 setup, where the middle ring is so worn after half a season, that it needs to be replaced. I don't know about the E13 rings though, they may be good too. I actually have a 36t surly i could sell you, it's practically new. Most people go with 32 though, and since you don't have chainstays to look out for, you'll probably want 32t.
  • 11-07-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    Yeah I use the Surly and it's been great. Plus it's steel so it's very strong. Very little wear after a full season of riding. Compared to the aluminum middle ring of a 3x9 setup, where the middle ring is so worn after half a season, that it needs to be replaced. I don't know about the E13 rings though, they may be good too. I actually have a 36t surly i could sell you, it's practically new. Most people go with 32 though, and since you don't have chainstays to look out for, you'll probably want 32t.

    I have some SLX cranks on order, with a 36T middle ring. I want to see if a 36T helps my situation. With the 32t, the tension roller puts the lower chain awfully close to the upper chain, to the point that they might hit each other. I'm hoping a 36T will create more room, take up the extra slack and prevent that from happening.

    Once I get all that dialed in, I'm going to order a proper chainring, and one of those rear Alfine cogs, with the plastic chain guide. I don't plan on running a front elaborate chainguide, either. I'm hoping that a proper, straight chainline, the Alfine rear cog and a tall toothed rampless front ring will keep my chain on...plus, a lot of constant tension from that lower BB sprung-roller.

    I'm going to attempt to make my own, with a longer swing arm than the YESS device, by placing the pivot closer to the BB. Thinking that will give me more tension travel.
  • 11-07-2012
    sriracha
    btw, for all you wheel builders out there, I originally laced the wheel wrong, with brake tension spokes elbows out (as shown in above picture)... Luckily I caught this before tensioning the wheel. I have since re-laced and finished the wheel correctly with brake tension spokes elbows in.... laces out!
  • 11-23-2012
    Tunalic
    Installed 11 spd alfine a week ago and love it so far! 36X20t...
    http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...8/IMG_0481.jpg
  • 11-25-2012
    fokof
    1 Attachment(s)
    I've made a thread for my new build , but here it goes here too !
  • 11-27-2012
    PeT
    1 Attachment(s)
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fokof View Post
    I've made a thread for my new build , but here it goes here too !

    I can't use the old line of "great minds think alike" as I'm not one, but there's some real similarity here. I just retrofitted my almost-9-year-old Rohloff'd Black Sheep using a VeloSwap-pickup Lefty Carbon SL/MendonCycle Smith overhaul/Project 321 adapter. The rear wheel will continue to be run as a V-brake, so I've got a mullet setup for brakes, but the balance between the brakes is still great. It weighs 26.2 lbs with pedals. My son's Lefty-equipped Cannodale Caffeine comes in at 24.5 lbs, but the weight savings doesn't make up for the real-world wonders of the Rohloff.
  • 11-27-2012
    fokof
    Nice ride !!!
    Got to love those Lefty , ain't it right ?
    They are solo damn smooth , with a Ti frame , It's even smoother than any Carbon frame I've tried , I'm really impressed. It's my first Ti.

    Mine is 23,1 lbs with those tires. i could loose a pound by swapping the Brooks but my butt is worth that extra pound anytime !! :p



    BTW : Mendon is the Man !!! He's the only guy touching my forks when I can't do it.
  • 12-05-2012
    sriracha
    3 Attachment(s)
    The Nickel Lives!!!
    I have completed the build on the Nickel. I have developed a new BB mounted, spring loaded chain tension device, that works on elevated chainstay frames, with internally geared hubs.
    If anybody is interested in having one made, feel free to PM me.

    The homemade prototype is working great, with no dropped chains and no chain slap...the bike is whisper quite on the trails, climbs great and is a lot of fun for bounding, shocking and gnarling.
  • 12-07-2012
    Corporal Punishment
    Looks awesome. The dainty little springs found on most dropout tensioners don't hold up well at all. Good idea using a heftier one. Its probably a LOT less likely to break or lose it's tension. Sweet bike too.
  • 12-07-2012
    Drew Diller
    Looks great, and nice work on the tensioner. I've tried a Yess ETR-B, you made the right call. Very lackluster tension from that unit.

    It's too bad, the Yess ETR-V is pretty awesome. I just don't like the placement, it's essentially a derailleur.
  • 12-07-2012
    dru
    yes, that is a fine looking ride.

    question though, do you need that much extra chain for the suspension travel?

    or is it a situation where removing another link is too much?
  • 12-07-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dru View Post
    yes, that is a fine looking ride.

    question though, do you need that much extra chain for the suspension travel?

    or is it a situation where removing another link is too much?


    Thanks for the compliments! Yeah, I'm pretty happy with the chain tensioner. The tension spring is a nice gauge and pretty strong. I certainly wanted strong tension, but it doesn't seem like it's too strong. It took some trial and error, selecting the spring and the location that I bolted the spring. I initially used a longer spring, that attached further out on the swing arm, but this created way too much tension. A shorter spring mounted half way on the arm works perfectly.

    The extra chain length is for the suspension travel. If I removed a link, the chain would be too short at full travel. Also, chainring diameter influences this. A 32T ring creates too much slack. A 36T, the chain is too short. A 34T chainring seems to work just right.

    I might try a 30T, if I can find one, and remove a full link...if I feel the need for a lower gear.

    After riding some rocky trails, I have declared my homemade chain tensioner a success, with no dropped chains and no chain slap.
  • 12-07-2012
    dru
    Sriracha, is this your 1st IGH? If so, time will tell as to getting hooked. Personally I love the clean look, and resistance to crash damage.

    Gotta get me a fully one of these days. They look like fun in the rough stuff.
  • 12-07-2012
    crazylemurboy
    Srirach, have you considered the use of a half link to achieve a 'near perfect' chain length? I used one with a HT with vertical drop outs and did not use a tensioner until the chain stretched. No chain drops, but the back wheel was most certainly stationary!
  • 12-07-2012
    fellsbiker
    It looks like he could actually remove at least one full link and still have plenty of chain for the full suspension path.
  • 12-08-2012
    Corporal Punishment
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    The extra chain length is for the suspension travel. If I removed a link, the chain would be too short at full travel. Also, chainring diameter influences this. A 32T ring creates too much slack. A 36T, the chain is too short. A 34T chainring seems to work just right.

    I might try a 30T, if I can find one, and remove a full link...if I feel the need for a lower gear.

    You may want to go with the 30T or 32T as a starting point then change the rear cog to taste. And yea, if you find the perfect riding ratio but there's just a touch too much chain then a half link works great. I use one on my magicgear setup with vertical dropouts.

    Personally, I would use a 10T chainring if I could - more BB clearance. But there is no cog small enough for even a 22T chainring that would give a useable gear ratio. I guess I'll have to wait until someone invents a lightweight and durable driveshaft system. ;-)
  • 12-09-2012
    Davidbike
    Hey nice build. I'm trying also to build a bike with an alfine 11 or 8. With drop bars road gear shifter. Do they word well? Any recomendation about what to use?
  • 12-09-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Corporal Punishment View Post
    You may want to go with the 30T or 32T as a starting point then change the rear cog to taste. And yea, if you find the perfect riding ratio but there's just a touch too much chain then a half link works great. I use one on my magicgear setup with vertical dropouts.

    Personally, I would use a 10T chainring if I could - more BB clearance. But there is no cog small enough for even a 22T chainring that would give a useable gear ratio. I guess I'll have to wait until someone invents a lightweight and durable driveshaft system. ;-)

    I figured out a way to use a 32T chainring, and still take up the extra slack, without the top and bottom chains touching.

    I will have to position the idler pulley closer to the chainring, on the swing-arm, and also use a 13T Dura-ace pulley.

    I could certainly use that extra climbing gear.
  • 12-09-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dru View Post
    Sriracha, is this your 1st IGH? If so, time will tell as to getting hooked. Personally I love the clean look, and resistance to crash damage.

    Gotta get me a fully one of these days. They look like fun in the rough stuff.

    No, this is my 3rd IGH...I am definitely hooked!

    I first put an Alfine-8 on my Karate Monkey, roughy two years ago. I haven't had a single problem with that hub. After the initial cable stretch, I haven't had to touch it. It's probably due for a rebuild.

    I then bolted a Shimano Nexus 3-speed disc IGH on my vintage road bike. I really like that hub too, it's just too bad it has that bell-crank cable pick-up on the outside of the frame. I love how low profile the Alfine-8 is.

    I've always wanted an IGH on my full-suspension bikes, but the dropouts wouldn't allow it. When I saw this Santa Cruz Nickel frame for sale on a crazy closeout deal (still going, only $600!!!), and realized the dropouts would allow an IGH, I went for it.

    ...then, after looking at the bike, I realized I could create a new kind of bottom bracket spring-loaded tensioner. Allowed by the elevated chainstays, I am able to take up a lot more slack than a traditional frame.
  • 12-09-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by crazylemurboy View Post
    Srirach, have you considered the use of a half link to achieve a 'near perfect' chain length? I used one with a HT with vertical drop outs and did not use a tensioner until the chain stretched. No chain drops, but the back wheel was most certainly stationary!

    I considered it, but I am a Wipperman fan-boi. They don't offer a half-link for Wipperman chains, and for some reason, I don't want to use another brand's half-link....wouldn't that cause problems, mixing brands, in a chain?
  • 12-09-2012
    sriracha
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fellsbiker View Post
    It looks like he could actually remove at least one full link and still have plenty of chain for the full suspension path.

    Maybe if the chain stretches and the chainring teeth wear in a bit. It's really close. It's more like, if I removed 3/4 link, the chain length would be perfect. If I removed a full link, it would be 1/4 link too short.
  • 12-09-2012
    sriracha
    1 Attachment(s)
    Gold...well, brass plated, 9-speed Wipperman chain dropped 120grams over the single speed chain I was initially using.

    After some test rides on rougher trails, and still no dropped chains, I have declared this spring loaded tensioner a success!

    Time to develop version 2. I'm going to use a 13T Dura-Ace pulley, for the idler. Revise the design a little bit and see if I can get the weight down without sacrificing beefy-ness. The pulley alone will drop 30 grams over the double-bearing roller. Going to try to remove 100grams total from the tensioner.
  • 12-09-2012
    fellsbiker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sriracha View Post
    Maybe if the chain stretches and the chainring teeth wear in a bit. It's really close. It's more like, if I removed 3/4 link, the chain length would be perfect. If I removed a full link, it would be 1/4 link too short.

    In that case I'd definitely go with a half link.