• 04-10-2009
    forwardcomponents
    1 Attachment(s)
    Got one of these on order...UPDATE: It's Here!
    Shimano Nexus three speed internally geared hub for disc brakes. Nice and light at 945grams. The online retailer describes the "Intended Use" as "Mountain".

    I will post up a review when it arrives, hopefully in a week or so. We'll see if it can handle off road use as claimed.
  • 04-10-2009
    peanutbutter
    do you have the o.l.d. for that thing? ive been whining about how i want an off road 3 speed hub for a while now, thanks for showing this thing off!


    nevermind, i got unlazy and did the research, 135 it is! but no shifter included? bummer
  • 04-10-2009
    itsdoable
    Cool! Did not know they had the 3-speed out in disc. Do you know if they are using roller bearings on the planetary gears, like the alfine?
  • 04-10-2009
    Doppler9000
    How much$?
  • 04-11-2009
    irrah
    Florian Nebel from Paul Lange (Shimano distributor in Germany) says :Cruisers and children bicycles as the focus market for this hub. Particularly in the USA Cruiser with 3-speed hub and disc brakes are in the future probably a genuine Trendsetter.

    http://www.radfahren.de/modules.php?...rder=0&thold=0
  • 04-11-2009
    gschwell
    Range?
    Anyone have any idea what the range is on the gearing?
  • 04-11-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by gschwell
    Anyone have any idea what the range is on the gearing?


    The range is around 186%. The Alfine 8 speed is around 340%.

    They usually retail for $125, but I have seen them for as low as $89, $93, and $109.

    I suspect that they are not actually being certified for off road by Shimano, and the distributor is just making assumptions about the "intended use" because of the disc mount. Shimano does not certify Alfine or NexusRed Band for off road, but people have been using them successfully. I think Shimano and SRAM are using mountain bikers to test their product, without having to worry about warranty claims. The disc mount is just bait that we can't resist!

    I have no idea if the hub uses roller bearings like Alfine. It probably does. That is probably what the "silent clutch" on the hub shell refers to, but I am just speculating.
  • 04-11-2009
    itsdoable
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    ...I have no idea if the hub uses roller bearings like Alfine. It probably does. That is probably what the "silent clutch" on the hub shell refers to, but I am just speculating.

    The "silent clutch" is the roller clutch that was added to the hub when the Alfine was introduced, it removed the clicky sound on the higher gears, and improved on the engagement. The roller bearings were first introduced on the red-band nexus as a way of improving efficiency and durability.
  • 04-11-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by itsdoable
    The "silent clutch" is the roller clutch that was added to the hub when the Alfine was introduced, it removed the clicky sound on the higher gears, and improved on the engagement. The roller bearings were first introduced on the red-band nexus as a way of improving efficiency and durability.

    I wonder if these are a nightmare to service.
  • 04-12-2009
    presslab
    I was looking hard at the new 3-speed but I decided on the 8-speed instead. One of the negatives was the shifter box on the end of the axle shaft that the 3-speed requires. When I was looking to buy last year, I could not find stock of the 3-speed.

    Where did you order it from?
  • 04-21-2009
    forwardcomponents
    2 Attachment(s)
    It's here!
    Show and tell time.

    It's very compact. It fits in my hand with room to spare. On my cheap red plastic kitchen scale(which is surprisingly accurate) it weighs the claimed 950 grams. The seals seem to be very good. Perfect for this rainy time of year. It has a little bit of drag in freewheel mode, but it is very quiet. The cog that Shimano supplied is an inexpensive, shiny stamped steel one.Ugh! I won't bother showing you that. I may fabricate a titanium one to replace it, just for the bling factor.
  • 04-23-2009
    r1Gel
    Does the new Nexus 3 still use the shift/click box? I thought they've revised it to be similar to the Nexus 8 Red Band/Alfine... :confused:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by presslab
    I was looking hard at the new 3-speed but I decided on the 8-speed instead. One of the negatives was the shifter box on the end of the axle shaft that the 3-speed requires. When I was looking to buy last year, I could not find stock of the 3-speed.

    Where did you order it from?

  • 04-23-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by r1Gel
    Does the new Nexus 3 still use the shift/click box? I thought they've revised it to be similar to the Nexus 8 Red Band/Alfine... :confused:

    I ordered it without the shifter. I wanted to see what shifter was recommended in the instructions, but it doesn't say! I imagine that the shifter is the three speed Nexus Revo shifter, which includes the click box. I don't really like the click box idea. It looks vulnerable. Not as bad as a derailleur, but it still protrudes a bit.

    Has anyone here had problems with a clickbox getting smacked?
  • 04-24-2009
    themanmonkey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Has anyone here had problems with a clickbox getting smacked?

    Years ago, before any IG hub was rated for off-road, I saw some issues for customers usually with the Sachs/SRAM Super-7. We would just mount a smack guard on the axle and no more problem. The click box isn't a problem but people for some reason just love to berate it. I think the Shimano Nexus shift ring is maybe the most important improvement to IG hubs to come along, but that doesn't mean click boxes are bad.

    So what shifter did you end up using?
  • 04-24-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by themanmonkey
    Years ago, before any IG hub was rated for off-road, I saw some issues for customers usually with the Sachs/SRAM Super-7. We would just mount a smack guard on the axle and no more problem. The click box isn't a problem but people for some reason just love to berate it. I think the Shimano Nexus shift ring is maybe the most important improvement to IG hubs to come along, but that doesn't mean click boxes are bad.

    So what shifter did you end up using?

    I am going to go with the Shimano Nexus SL-3S35 3-speed Revoshifter. It is not specifically mentioned in the installation instructions, but it is always described on retailer websites as compatible for Nexus Inter 3 hubs, so it must be the one.

    I don't really understand why Shimano requires a clickbox, when SRAM and even Sturmey Archer don't. Is there an advantage to it that outweighs it's weight, bulk, and complexity?
  • 04-24-2009
    Monkeybike
    please post a review as soon as you try it out. and pictures of it on the bike.
    how much heavier than a "normal" wheel will it be? I use an alfine, the wheel on it own feel really heavy (Dh rims, tubes and tyres) but when on the bike the weigh is not really noticeable.

    Where did you order it from? I want one to stick in a gearbox bike.
  • 04-24-2009
    peanutbutter
    i find that despite the need for one more tool, the clickbox makes wheel removal much easier than both the mechanisms from other companies and shimano's own shift ring. i like being able to unscrew the bolt, take off the box and hanlde the wheel like normal, where as the chain on sturmeys' hubs seem to need constant adjustment, and the shift ring is simply hard to fiddle with...
    on the other hand... im probably the only one who thinks this. haha!
  • 04-24-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Monkeybike
    please post a review as soon as you try it out. and pictures of it on the bike.
    how much heavier than a "normal" wheel will it be? I use an alfine, the wheel on it own feel really heavy (Dh rims, tubes and tyres) but when on the bike the weigh is not really noticeable.

    Where did you order it from? I want one to stick in a gearbox bike.

    A weight comparison is not that straightforward. A wheel with a regular hub requires a cassette and a rear derailleur to get the same functionality as an internally geared hub. To be really precise, you would have to select three rear cogs which provide the same 186% gear range as the Nexus hub. I have no idea what a clickbox weighs.

    I got the hub from here:

    http://greatadventuresports.com/page...ils&sku=HU7885

    They did not package it very well, unfortunately. They also did not carry it in stock, so I had to wait for a while to get it. I suggest that you do a search for somebody who has it in stock. Just use the part number(SG 3D55), and you will find several online retailers. QBP is carrying it, so it won't be hard to order at your local shop.
  • 04-25-2009
    themanmonkey
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    I don't really understand why Shimano requires a clickbox, when SRAM and even Sturmey Archer don't. Is there an advantage to it that outweighs it's weight, bulk, and complexity?

    Actually S-A were the only folks NOT to use a clickbox or bell-pull, but the indicator chain had a lot of downfalls too. Sachs would use and indicator chain and put a box around it to keep things clean. Their clickbox grew out of this and is just a "sealed" bell-pull. Shimano used a bell-pull until the Nexus-7came out 15 years ago. I think the reason Shimano is still using it on their 3-speed is because the guts never got changed and the hub isn't a whole redesign.

    This of course is why I'm interested to see how these "off-road" approved hubs work. Just beefing up the shells won't solve all the problems, but might solve enough to make them useful.
  • 05-09-2009
    joako
    Any updates on this? Is the drag worst or better than an Alfine hub? Thanks in advance.
  • 05-10-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by joako
    Any updates on this? Is the drag worst or better than an Alfine hub? Thanks in advance.

    I have never used the Alfine hub, so I can't compare. There is detectable drag though. Hopefully this will become less obvious once the hub is worked in a little. On the plus side, it is a very quiet hub. The "silent clutch" really is silent, It doesn't make a sound in freewheel mode(at least not in the gear that it is currently in). I believe that it uses a roller clutch similar to those found in the old SACHS coaster brake hubs. It may be a less quiet in the 2nd and 3rd gears. I will see once I get the shifter installed.

    I am still waiting for the shifter. It should be here next week.
  • 05-11-2009
    rep
    Here's another vote for clickboxes. It is NICE to be able to pull off a wheel without all the screwing around with various nasty bits. I use a bash guard, and it has prevented any bashing.
  • 05-14-2009
    David9999999
    Definitely interested in this one... update when ya can.:thumbsup:
  • 05-17-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David9999999
    Definitely interested in this one... update when ya can.:thumbsup:

    I just took the hub out on it's first, very brief ride ride. I still don't have the shifter, so I was spinning out with it stuck in the default lowest gear, running a 34/19 gear combination.

    It climbed very well. No noise or other issues. No crunching, clunking, or other mysterious sounds. What I really noticed about it was the fact that it is completely silent in freewheel mode. It made no sound whatsoever. For racers that silence feature could be very advantageous.

    It felt very light too. I did not notice any excessive rear weight when I rode up and over logs or other obstacles.

    I will post a more detailed review once I get the shifter installed and take it out for a more serious ride.
  • 05-17-2009
    David9999999
    Sounds good so far! You mentioned before that it felt like it had some drag, was that evident when riding?
  • 05-17-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David9999999
    Sounds good so far! You mentioned before that it felt like it had some drag, was that evident when riding?

    I did not notice any drag. I had the bike in a workstand, and let the rear wheel turn at speed. It did not drive the pedals at all.
  • 05-24-2009
    David9999999
    Updates? :p
  • 05-24-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by David9999999
    Updates? :p

    Soon! At least I hope it's soon. The shifter is supposed to be in next week. It was delayed
    on back order. I will post a review after the first serious ride.
  • 05-25-2009
    NoPuff
    Have one of these with Specialized San Francisco 2
    Spotted the reference to a cage to protect the click-box - that sounds like a great idea. The San Francisco 2 does not include one of these. I may be out of my depth here - since this bike is only used as a daily commute - but may be able to answer questions in this limited application/experience of the 3 speed hub.
  • 06-12-2009
    Doppler9000
    Doink!

    Any updates?
  • 06-12-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    Doink!

    Any updates?

    The only update that I have to report is that I should have ordered my shifter online rather than through a store. The store has been waiting for ever for the shifter, and Shimano still has not shipped it. I finally cancelled the order and bought one on line. I insisted that the person on the phone go into the warehouse and verify that the shifter is actually there, and not just there as an entry in a database.

    Now the local bike shop claims that Shimano has shipped it from a warehouse that supposedly is inaccessible to regular shops(in area 51 perhaps), so I will soon have two.

    Next week I will(hopefully) have the long awaited ride report.
  • 06-12-2009
    Doppler9000
    Great - I am particularly interested in your impression of the hub with regard to the more limited range but substantial weight savings over the 8 speed unit.
  • 06-14-2009
    Wish I Were Riding
    Waiting too...
  • 06-15-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    Great - I am particularly interested in your impression of the hub with regard to the more limited range but substantial weight savings over the 8 speed unit.

    Without any experience using eight speed internally geared hubs, it will be difficult to compare. I can only provide a general comparison to singlespeed or conventional derailleur gearing. The basic question will be whether or not it is satisfactory for the type of terrain I ride in. I hate walking up hills, and I hate spinning downhill like a hamster in an exercise wheel. If I am not forced to do either of these, then I will declare the hub as satisfactory.

    I suspect, but cannot confirm, that the hub is subject to the same torque limits as the Alfine and Nexus 8. If that is true, then the uphills will be just as difficult on a 3 speed IGH as on an 8 speed IGH. In that case, the only advantages of an 8 speed hub will be on downhills or flats, where spinning out is a problem on the 3 speed hub. If the limited high gear of the 3 speed is acceptable, then it's probably the winner due to lower weight at the rear of the bike(nice when clearing obstacles), lower price, lower complexity( with less potential for malfunction), and more streamlined looks. Alfines are very bulky looking, while this hub looks like any other hub. Finding spokes for this hub was not a problem. Alfines probably require spokes that are very short.

    I will report on the downhill and shifting attributes when the shifter arrives. I have already taken it out for short test rides, locked into the default low gear. It climbs well enough so far.
  • 06-16-2009
    Wish I Were Riding
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    ...If that is true, then the uphills will be just as difficult on a 3 speed IGH as on an 8 speed IGH. In that case, the only advantages of an 8 speed hub will be on downhills or flats, where spinning out is a problem on the 3 speed hub. If the limited high gear of the 3 speed is acceptable, then it's probably the winner due to lower weight at the rear of the bike(nice when clearing obstacles), lower price, lower complexity( with less potential for malfunction), and more streamlined looks.

    Are there any 3 speed disk IGHs that can take the abuse of offroad, AND have usable range? (I'll probably just try the Alfine, but thought I would ask...)
  • 06-16-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Are there any 3 speed disk IGHs that can take the abuse of offroad, AND have usable range? (I'll probably just try the Alfine, but thought I would ask...)

    It all depends on what you mean by usable range. The Alfine only has a range of 306% or 316%(depending on source), The Nexus 3 is 186%. The Rohloff hub has a 526% gear range.

    The Alfine has a range similar to a 12-34 cassette, with one chainring. It's a usefull range. The Nexus 3 is more limited, to be sure. I think the issue is whether you can climb the steepest hills in your area, or if you will walk.
  • 06-17-2009
    Doppler9000
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Without any experience using eight speed internally geared hubs, it will be difficult to compare. I can only provide a general comparison to singlespeed or conventional derailleur gearing. The basic question will be whether or not it is satisfactory for the type of terrain I ride in. I hate walking up hills, and I hate spinning downhill like a hamster in an exercise wheel. If I am not forced to do either of these, then I will declare the hub as satisfactory.

    I suspect, but cannot confirm, that the hub is subject to the same torque limits as the Alfine and Nexus 8. If that is true, then the uphills will be just as difficult on a 3 speed IGH as on an 8 speed IGH. In that case, the only advantages of an 8 speed hub will be on downhills or flats, where spinning out is a problem on the 3 speed hub. If the limited high gear of the 3 speed is acceptable, then it's probably the winner due to lower weight at the rear of the bike(nice when clearing obstacles), lower price, lower complexity( with less potential for malfunction), and more streamlined looks. Alfines are very bulky looking, while this hub looks like any other hub. Finding spokes for this hub was not a problem. Alfines probably require spokes that are very short.

    I will report on the downhill and shifting attributes when the shifter arrives. I have already taken it out for short test rides, locked into the default low gear. It climbs well enough so far.

    I am looking at the three speed for the same reasons.

    Sheldon Brown ran a Nexus 8 with 52/18 (almost 3:1) on a vintage Raleigh.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/org/rale...nal/index.html

    This gave him way too much on the top (125 gear inches) and indicates that the hub might be able to withstand usage outside the guideline ratios.

    I am looking forward to your test of the three speed.
  • 06-17-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    I am looking at the three speed for the same reasons.

    Sheldon Brown ran a Nexus 8 with 52/18 (almost 3:1) on a vintage Raleigh.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/org/rale...nal/index.html

    This gave him way too much on the top (125 gear inches) and indicates that the hub might be able to withstand usage outside the guideline ratios.

    I am looking forward to your test of the three speed.

    I am pretty sure that I could get away with 52:18. I am not so sure about using anything less than the 34:19 that I have currently installed. I would like to use something a bit more hill friendly, like a 34:24.

    The ratio limits are set to prevent you from destroying the hub in the lowest gear. Too much mechanical advantage will simply kill the internal mechanism, I predict. I would like to know what the lower limit is for the Alfine hub. I expect that the Nexus 3 is built to handle anything that the Alfine can take.

    Perhaps some Alfine(and Rohloff) users can tell us what chainring/cog combinations they are using? Has anybody cooked an Alfine or Rohloff by using a gear ratio that is too low?
  • 06-17-2009
    Doppler9000
    I read that 2:1 is the minimum...I brainfarted on the Sheldon post, more is fine.
  • 06-17-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    I read that 2:1 is the minimum...I brainfarted on the Sheldon post, more is fine.


    I just scanned through some of the Alfine posts and a ratio of 32:20 or even 32:22 is being mentioned. That is way under 2:1. I can't find the Shimano recommended limit anywhere online. I asked on this forum a few weeks ago, and got no response.

    Where did you read that 2:1 is the minimum? Is that the minimum for Nexus 3, or for all Nexus and Alfine hubs? If it is, then the Alfine users are really testing the limits of their hubs with ratios like 32:22. I would really like to know the official limits, so I know what the boundaries are for experimentation.

    Edit: Just found this:

    http://www.justridingalong.com/news/tag/alfine/

    They are basically recommending a 32:20 setup. I don't see why the Nexus 3 could not be built to withstand the same torque as the Alfine.
  • 06-17-2009
    Doppler9000
    Forgive the secon brainfart in a row - I was remembering ratios for NuVinci and Rohloffs (I just got back from the Washington, DC DMV and am a little frazzled).

    By the way, is there a place where I could see all the parts necessary for the Inter-3 set up? I want to make sure I order everything I need all at once.

    John
  • 06-17-2009
    Wish I Were Riding
    My friend is going to build up an Alfine in a 29er wheel. I think he will use a 32x21 gear. That would put 5th as our most often used SS gear. Is 5th the smoothest most direct gear?
  • 06-17-2009
    itsdoable
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Where did you read that 2:1 is the minimum? Is that the minimum for Nexus 3, or for all Nexus and Alfine hubs?....

    When I checked a year or so ago, Shimano does not officially have any recommended limits on the minimum ratio (unlike SRAM & Rohloff) for thier IGHs. However, some people who talk to a Shimano tech rep in the US was told it was prudent to stay near 2:1.

    I've run 32:22. I've broken Nexus hubs, but not Alfines yet (I think it's a matter of time). Some of the parts on the lower end hubs are cast steel, where as they are machined steel on the higher end ones. The parts I broke that could be attributed to gear ratio were all cast steel (half shaft, cog carrier, etc..).
  • 06-17-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by itsdoable
    When I checked a year or so ago, Shimano does not officially have any recommended limits on the minimum ratio (unlike SRAM & Rohloff) for thier IGHs. However, some people who talk to a Shimano tech rep in the US was told it was prudent to stay near 2:1.

    I've run 32:22. I've broken Nexus hubs, but not Alfines yet (I think it's a matter of time). Some of the parts on the lower end hubs are cast steel, where as they are machined steel on the higher end ones. The parts I broke that could be attributed to gear ratio were all cast steel (half shaft, cog carrier, etc..).

    Did you damage a Nexus 3?


    I have never seen the insides of an internally geared hub, save for an ancient looking Sturmey Archer three speed that I took apart once. I have also dismantled a Velosteel coaster brake hub just to see the roller clutch and brake mechanism.

    I hope that the Nexus 3 disc hub is better than the Nexus 3 with "cast steel" parts. I wonder if the cheap gears could be replaced by something better. If a Rohloff can last forever, and an Alfine can take serious abuse, then it is just a matter of selecting the right materials and ensuring that tight tolerances are adhered to. It would be interesting to tune a Nexus 3 hub so that it can endure anything that a Rohloff or Alfine can handle.
  • 06-17-2009
    itsdoable
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Did you damage a Nexus 3?...

    I've broken 2 nexus-7, and a Nexus-8 was on the way before it got switched out. The cog carrier was porous cast metal, which split. I've seen broken Sachs-3s, mostly a broken axle. The axle is weakened by being hollow with slots so the shift pins can engage the internal clutches, for this reason the Rohloff axles are significantly larger in diameter.

    I've seen broken Shimano-3s. Keep in mind they are constantly upgrading their design, the current Nexus 7s & 8s no longer have cast cog carriers, and the internals of the current Nexus-8 is the same as the Alfine.

    Another common break are the clutchs/ratchets, just like any freehub. Only the ratchets are retractable by the shifter, which can add wear. You can prolong the life of the clutches by "shifting nicely". I think the roller clutch is a way of addressing this weakness.
  • 06-24-2009
    Doppler9000
    Oh, the agony....I called Shimano today to try to get some insight into the differences between the current three speed hubs. "The 3D55 might be better sealed.", said the halfwit tech rep. "But it might not?", I cleverly pointed out. No response. This is after he said they weren't bringing the hub into the US. he explained that some dealers were bringing it in from Europe and they (shimano US) would not support it. I asked, then why is it on your website. No answer. Boggles the imagination.

    We are counting on you, Mr Forward Components, to fill in where Shimano has its head up its proverbial.
  • 06-24-2009
    forwardcomponents
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    Oh, the agony....I called Shimano today to try to get some insight into the differences between the current three speed hubs. "The 3D55 might be better sealed.", said the halfwit tech rep. "But it might not?", I cleverly pointed out. No response. This is after he said they weren't bringing the hub into the US. he explained that some dealers were bringing it in from Europe and they (shimano US) would not support it. I asked, then why is it on your website. No answer. Boggles the imagination.

    We are counting on you, Mr Forward Components, to fill in where Shimano has its head up its proverbial.

    Perfect timing. The shifter arrived yesterday direct from Cambria Bike Outfitters(good service). I have it installed, and ready for a serious test ride. Spinning around the block demonstrated that the shifts are crisp, despite the fact that the shifter looks like something that you might get for free with a McDonald's kids meal. I have to say that the bell crank is not as heavy as it looks. It's basically hollow cast metal and plasic. It won't survive the first crash, but it is light enough. Since I have a back up on order, I guess I can take some risks with it. I wouldn't want to go through the headache of ordering another one directly from Shimano(it still has not arrived from their secret warehouse in Area 51 or North Korea or wherever it's supposed to be).

    What I don't understand is why the Bell Crank has to be so bulky. I have two thread-on ones from a vintage Shimano three speed, and they are very compact. I will post pictures to compare. When I opened up the new Bell Crank to examine the mechanism, I discovered(surprise!) that it is basically identical to the old one. The geometry of the pull arm is almost exactly the same. The old one could have been modified to incorporate the beneficial features of the new design, without all the bulk and superfluous features like the viewing window and the oversized protective shell.

    I wonder when the originally ordered shifter will ever get here?
  • 06-28-2009
    eric_syd
    gear ratios
    Have you been able to figure out the gear ratios even approximately by installing the wheel/ shifter on a bike and do a few rotations ?
  • 07-04-2009
    Wish I Were Riding
    Please tell me where you have a review of the Alfine and shifter. Are we still waiting or did I miss it somewhere else???
  • 07-12-2009
    Wish I Were Riding
    Bump! Ride Reports please!!!