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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by David9999999
    Sounds good so far! You mentioned before that it felt like it had some drag, was that evident when riding?
    I did not notice any drag. I had the bike in a workstand, and let the rear wheel turn at speed. It did not drive the pedals at all.

  2. #27
    hmmm.
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    Updates?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by David9999999
    Updates?
    Soon! At least I hope it's soon. The shifter is supposed to be in next week. It was delayed
    on back order. I will post a review after the first serious ride.

  4. #29
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    Have one of these with Specialized San Francisco 2

    Spotted the reference to a cage to protect the click-box - that sounds like a great idea. The San Francisco 2 does not include one of these. I may be out of my depth here - since this bike is only used as a daily commute - but may be able to answer questions in this limited application/experience of the 3 speed hub.

  5. #30
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    Doink!

    Any updates?

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    Doink!

    Any updates?
    The only update that I have to report is that I should have ordered my shifter online rather than through a store. The store has been waiting for ever for the shifter, and Shimano still has not shipped it. I finally cancelled the order and bought one on line. I insisted that the person on the phone go into the warehouse and verify that the shifter is actually there, and not just there as an entry in a database.

    Now the local bike shop claims that Shimano has shipped it from a warehouse that supposedly is inaccessible to regular shops(in area 51 perhaps), so I will soon have two.

    Next week I will(hopefully) have the long awaited ride report.

  7. #32
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    Great - I am particularly interested in your impression of the hub with regard to the more limited range but substantial weight savings over the 8 speed unit.

  8. #33
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    Waiting too...

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    Great - I am particularly interested in your impression of the hub with regard to the more limited range but substantial weight savings over the 8 speed unit.
    Without any experience using eight speed internally geared hubs, it will be difficult to compare. I can only provide a general comparison to singlespeed or conventional derailleur gearing. The basic question will be whether or not it is satisfactory for the type of terrain I ride in. I hate walking up hills, and I hate spinning downhill like a hamster in an exercise wheel. If I am not forced to do either of these, then I will declare the hub as satisfactory.

    I suspect, but cannot confirm, that the hub is subject to the same torque limits as the Alfine and Nexus 8. If that is true, then the uphills will be just as difficult on a 3 speed IGH as on an 8 speed IGH. In that case, the only advantages of an 8 speed hub will be on downhills or flats, where spinning out is a problem on the 3 speed hub. If the limited high gear of the 3 speed is acceptable, then it's probably the winner due to lower weight at the rear of the bike(nice when clearing obstacles), lower price, lower complexity( with less potential for malfunction), and more streamlined looks. Alfines are very bulky looking, while this hub looks like any other hub. Finding spokes for this hub was not a problem. Alfines probably require spokes that are very short.

    I will report on the downhill and shifting attributes when the shifter arrives. I have already taken it out for short test rides, locked into the default low gear. It climbs well enough so far.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    ...If that is true, then the uphills will be just as difficult on a 3 speed IGH as on an 8 speed IGH. In that case, the only advantages of an 8 speed hub will be on downhills or flats, where spinning out is a problem on the 3 speed hub. If the limited high gear of the 3 speed is acceptable, then it's probably the winner due to lower weight at the rear of the bike(nice when clearing obstacles), lower price, lower complexity( with less potential for malfunction), and more streamlined looks.
    Are there any 3 speed disk IGHs that can take the abuse of offroad, AND have usable range? (I'll probably just try the Alfine, but thought I would ask...)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding
    Are there any 3 speed disk IGHs that can take the abuse of offroad, AND have usable range? (I'll probably just try the Alfine, but thought I would ask...)
    It all depends on what you mean by usable range. The Alfine only has a range of 306% or 316%(depending on source), The Nexus 3 is 186%. The Rohloff hub has a 526% gear range.

    The Alfine has a range similar to a 12-34 cassette, with one chainring. It's a usefull range. The Nexus 3 is more limited, to be sure. I think the issue is whether you can climb the steepest hills in your area, or if you will walk.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Without any experience using eight speed internally geared hubs, it will be difficult to compare. I can only provide a general comparison to singlespeed or conventional derailleur gearing. The basic question will be whether or not it is satisfactory for the type of terrain I ride in. I hate walking up hills, and I hate spinning downhill like a hamster in an exercise wheel. If I am not forced to do either of these, then I will declare the hub as satisfactory.

    I suspect, but cannot confirm, that the hub is subject to the same torque limits as the Alfine and Nexus 8. If that is true, then the uphills will be just as difficult on a 3 speed IGH as on an 8 speed IGH. In that case, the only advantages of an 8 speed hub will be on downhills or flats, where spinning out is a problem on the 3 speed hub. If the limited high gear of the 3 speed is acceptable, then it's probably the winner due to lower weight at the rear of the bike(nice when clearing obstacles), lower price, lower complexity( with less potential for malfunction), and more streamlined looks. Alfines are very bulky looking, while this hub looks like any other hub. Finding spokes for this hub was not a problem. Alfines probably require spokes that are very short.

    I will report on the downhill and shifting attributes when the shifter arrives. I have already taken it out for short test rides, locked into the default low gear. It climbs well enough so far.
    I am looking at the three speed for the same reasons.

    Sheldon Brown ran a Nexus 8 with 52/18 (almost 3:1) on a vintage Raleigh.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/org/rale...nal/index.html

    This gave him way too much on the top (125 gear inches) and indicates that the hub might be able to withstand usage outside the guideline ratios.

    I am looking forward to your test of the three speed.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    I am looking at the three speed for the same reasons.

    Sheldon Brown ran a Nexus 8 with 52/18 (almost 3:1) on a vintage Raleigh.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/org/rale...nal/index.html

    This gave him way too much on the top (125 gear inches) and indicates that the hub might be able to withstand usage outside the guideline ratios.

    I am looking forward to your test of the three speed.
    I am pretty sure that I could get away with 52:18. I am not so sure about using anything less than the 34:19 that I have currently installed. I would like to use something a bit more hill friendly, like a 34:24.

    The ratio limits are set to prevent you from destroying the hub in the lowest gear. Too much mechanical advantage will simply kill the internal mechanism, I predict. I would like to know what the lower limit is for the Alfine hub. I expect that the Nexus 3 is built to handle anything that the Alfine can take.

    Perhaps some Alfine(and Rohloff) users can tell us what chainring/cog combinations they are using? Has anybody cooked an Alfine or Rohloff by using a gear ratio that is too low?

  14. #39
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    I read that 2:1 is the minimum...I brainfarted on the Sheldon post, more is fine.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    I read that 2:1 is the minimum...I brainfarted on the Sheldon post, more is fine.

    I just scanned through some of the Alfine posts and a ratio of 32:20 or even 32:22 is being mentioned. That is way under 2:1. I can't find the Shimano recommended limit anywhere online. I asked on this forum a few weeks ago, and got no response.

    Where did you read that 2:1 is the minimum? Is that the minimum for Nexus 3, or for all Nexus and Alfine hubs? If it is, then the Alfine users are really testing the limits of their hubs with ratios like 32:22. I would really like to know the official limits, so I know what the boundaries are for experimentation.

    Edit: Just found this:

    http://www.justridingalong.com/news/tag/alfine/

    They are basically recommending a 32:20 setup. I don't see why the Nexus 3 could not be built to withstand the same torque as the Alfine.
    Last edited by forwardcomponents; 06-17-2009 at 08:36 AM.

  16. #41
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    Forgive the secon brainfart in a row - I was remembering ratios for NuVinci and Rohloffs (I just got back from the Washington, DC DMV and am a little frazzled).

    By the way, is there a place where I could see all the parts necessary for the Inter-3 set up? I want to make sure I order everything I need all at once.

    John

  17. #42
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    My friend is going to build up an Alfine in a 29er wheel. I think he will use a 32x21 gear. That would put 5th as our most often used SS gear. Is 5th the smoothest most direct gear?

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Where did you read that 2:1 is the minimum? Is that the minimum for Nexus 3, or for all Nexus and Alfine hubs?....
    When I checked a year or so ago, Shimano does not officially have any recommended limits on the minimum ratio (unlike SRAM & Rohloff) for thier IGHs. However, some people who talk to a Shimano tech rep in the US was told it was prudent to stay near 2:1.

    I've run 32:22. I've broken Nexus hubs, but not Alfines yet (I think it's a matter of time). Some of the parts on the lower end hubs are cast steel, where as they are machined steel on the higher end ones. The parts I broke that could be attributed to gear ratio were all cast steel (half shaft, cog carrier, etc..).

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsdoable
    When I checked a year or so ago, Shimano does not officially have any recommended limits on the minimum ratio (unlike SRAM & Rohloff) for thier IGHs. However, some people who talk to a Shimano tech rep in the US was told it was prudent to stay near 2:1.

    I've run 32:22. I've broken Nexus hubs, but not Alfines yet (I think it's a matter of time). Some of the parts on the lower end hubs are cast steel, where as they are machined steel on the higher end ones. The parts I broke that could be attributed to gear ratio were all cast steel (half shaft, cog carrier, etc..).
    Did you damage a Nexus 3?


    I have never seen the insides of an internally geared hub, save for an ancient looking Sturmey Archer three speed that I took apart once. I have also dismantled a Velosteel coaster brake hub just to see the roller clutch and brake mechanism.

    I hope that the Nexus 3 disc hub is better than the Nexus 3 with "cast steel" parts. I wonder if the cheap gears could be replaced by something better. If a Rohloff can last forever, and an Alfine can take serious abuse, then it is just a matter of selecting the right materials and ensuring that tight tolerances are adhered to. It would be interesting to tune a Nexus 3 hub so that it can endure anything that a Rohloff or Alfine can handle.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwardcomponents
    Did you damage a Nexus 3?...
    I've broken 2 nexus-7, and a Nexus-8 was on the way before it got switched out. The cog carrier was porous cast metal, which split. I've seen broken Sachs-3s, mostly a broken axle. The axle is weakened by being hollow with slots so the shift pins can engage the internal clutches, for this reason the Rohloff axles are significantly larger in diameter.

    I've seen broken Shimano-3s. Keep in mind they are constantly upgrading their design, the current Nexus 7s & 8s no longer have cast cog carriers, and the internals of the current Nexus-8 is the same as the Alfine.

    Another common break are the clutchs/ratchets, just like any freehub. Only the ratchets are retractable by the shifter, which can add wear. You can prolong the life of the clutches by "shifting nicely". I think the roller clutch is a way of addressing this weakness.

  21. #46
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    Oh, the agony....I called Shimano today to try to get some insight into the differences between the current three speed hubs. "The 3D55 might be better sealed.", said the halfwit tech rep. "But it might not?", I cleverly pointed out. No response. This is after he said they weren't bringing the hub into the US. he explained that some dealers were bringing it in from Europe and they (shimano US) would not support it. I asked, then why is it on your website. No answer. Boggles the imagination.

    We are counting on you, Mr Forward Components, to fill in where Shimano has its head up its proverbial.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doppler9000
    Oh, the agony....I called Shimano today to try to get some insight into the differences between the current three speed hubs. "The 3D55 might be better sealed.", said the halfwit tech rep. "But it might not?", I cleverly pointed out. No response. This is after he said they weren't bringing the hub into the US. he explained that some dealers were bringing it in from Europe and they (shimano US) would not support it. I asked, then why is it on your website. No answer. Boggles the imagination.

    We are counting on you, Mr Forward Components, to fill in where Shimano has its head up its proverbial.
    Perfect timing. The shifter arrived yesterday direct from Cambria Bike Outfitters(good service). I have it installed, and ready for a serious test ride. Spinning around the block demonstrated that the shifts are crisp, despite the fact that the shifter looks like something that you might get for free with a McDonald's kids meal. I have to say that the bell crank is not as heavy as it looks. It's basically hollow cast metal and plasic. It won't survive the first crash, but it is light enough. Since I have a back up on order, I guess I can take some risks with it. I wouldn't want to go through the headache of ordering another one directly from Shimano(it still has not arrived from their secret warehouse in Area 51 or North Korea or wherever it's supposed to be).

    What I don't understand is why the Bell Crank has to be so bulky. I have two thread-on ones from a vintage Shimano three speed, and they are very compact. I will post pictures to compare. When I opened up the new Bell Crank to examine the mechanism, I discovered(surprise!) that it is basically identical to the old one. The geometry of the pull arm is almost exactly the same. The old one could have been modified to incorporate the beneficial features of the new design, without all the bulk and superfluous features like the viewing window and the oversized protective shell.

    I wonder when the originally ordered shifter will ever get here?
    Last edited by forwardcomponents; 06-25-2009 at 05:09 AM.

  23. #48
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    gear ratios

    Have you been able to figure out the gear ratios even approximately by installing the wheel/ shifter on a bike and do a few rotations ?

  24. #49
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    Please tell me where you have a review of the Alfine and shifter. Are we still waiting or did I miss it somewhere else???

  25. #50
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    Bump! Ride Reports please!!!

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