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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    Thanks. That's where I'm getting confused, because the Alfine is a bit notorious for that.

    I'm conscientious with locking the bike, and it's a 26" frame with very high seat, so most would-be thieves will have to push it. I'm more worried about someone just cutting the wheel off.
    I don't get this whole "difficult to remove the wheel with an Alfine" thing.

    30 seconds, at most. I can live with that.

  2. #52
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    Here is my 2cents for this thread.

    I have booked my bicycle purchases some time to see how much money this hobby costs. This started ~10years ago when I wanted to show how much money it saves to use bike instead car / public transportation to my wife (it is now easy to make her to understand bike part purchases now days

    I purchased my Rohloff hub ~2,5years ago for my MTB and after last winter I calculated that on my usage break even point to derailleur setup will be after 6 years from now. I use my bike around whole year and I don't have too much time to clean power transmission and therefore mud&sand in power transmission are doing their "job" for chain&cog wheels...

    What comes to economics on my case... time is money for me, since I don't have too much spare time, I like to use my cycling -time for riding instead of maintaining And there break even point to derailleur gear was met within 1st year. Power transmission is much faster to clean when you have only two cog wheels and one chain.
    One problem, what is visible on the fall & spring time, when temperature is near 0C from the both sides, can be seen in this pic:

    Derailleur system just can't deliver... It is annoying when your cassette is filled&stuffed with snow and you have to stop&clean it after 1km riding. Or second option is to walk. This was main reason, why I bought my hub (SS is not nice either when there is lots of sloshy snow on the ground). With Rohloff I haven't had no frozen gearsystems or stuffed up casette, what are quite common problems whit derailleur systems. On the summer time I haven't had no chain sucks, snapped chains or destroyed rear derailleur.

    My Rohloff's drag on the small gears feels almost same as when my cyclocrosser derailleur system is dirty... so not a big deal for me, since I am not racing
    So overall I am quite confident that Rohloff investment was more than OK for me. With different environment story could be different.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    I guess I'm going to have to ride one to see how I like it, but with the costs I think I'm willing to even lose out a little for ease of maintenance.

    Yoreskillz, what sort of weight did the Moonlander finish at? A weight weenie I'm not, but the Ogre is on the heavy side already, so I'm curious.


    MBTR has a high signal-to-noise ratio.
    HH, I really have no idea what my Moonlander weighs in at and admittedly at this time I couldn't care less. I started riding a Fat Bike last October at 315lbs and needed a means of shedding pounds...SOON. Pedaling, pushing and lugging a heavy bike around is Fantastic way of doing so and works as I have lost nearly 80lbs in a year!

    That said, I love, love, love my bike and the Rohloff!

    Freshly built wheel.



    Current setup.



    Last nights ride in the Snow!


  4. #54
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    go remove your alfine wheel with winter gloves on then come back and tell me how easy it is .....

    with bare hands in a warm enviroment its not hard. at 6am on the way to work in sub zero temps and cold hands - there are easier things to be doing.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by manensky View Post
    Love that photo !

    It shows exactly what's happening to me each winter with my Shimano IGH , snow and slush jamming the shifting system when it gets really nasty.

    I don't have that problem with the Rohloff.
    "There is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over" -FZ

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail_rat View Post
    go remove your alfine wheel with winter gloves on then come back and tell me how easy it is .....

    with bare hands in a warm enviroment its not hard. at 6am on the way to work in sub zero temps and cold hands - there are easier things to be doing.
    That's a pretty unfair comparison, don't you think? I mean, just changing the tube once the whee is off the bike is a big hassle in those conditions. I've done it before in freezing weather. The fact you have to stop at all is the real pain. Disconnecting the shift cable from the hub is the least of my worries.

  7. #57
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    Maybe the answer is to do what I do and run tubeless - I've never had to remove a rear wheel "in the field" since doing so.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by manensky View Post
    lol
    just stop and easy clean chainwheels
    Rohloff suxx bcuz efficiency falling on low temp.
    Sorry, bad english.
    10.0kg custom.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by iperov View Post
    lol
    just stop and easy clean chainwheels
    Rohloff suxx bcuz efficiency falling on low temp.
    Hehe. this "just stop and easy clean chainwheels" was the number 1 reason for Rohloff purchase... it is not funny when you have to repeat cleaning after each 500m of riding. On the commuter racing you lose many points with that strategy

    Do you have any experience with Rohloff on low temp? When it gets below -5C I change so called winter oil mix into hub and so far I haven't experienced any xtra loss of efficiency with Rohloff compared to derailleur system.

    And when it gets below -15C I can say that derailleur system is really painful to keep 100% operational since a little bit of moisture means failing gear changes / total failure and frozen sproket on rear derailleur which causes real falling on efficiency. Riding on the cold climate with derailleur system means looooots of maintenance work.

    You might wan't to explain what happens to efficiency when your rear derailleur looks like this and temp goes below 0C?

    (pic credits: Mikha from fillarifoorumi.fi)

    I can personally say that on this situation it really suxx to ride with derailleur because efficiency is so poor compared to Rohloff on every gear.
    Last edited by manensky; 11-12-2012 at 01:04 PM. Reason: picture credits added

  10. #60
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    Gear cleaning strings $4.66


    Rohloff hub $1200


    no thx xD
    Sorry, bad english.
    10.0kg custom.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by iperov View Post
    Gear cleaning strings $4.66


    no thx xD
    I would love to see you on the side of the road cleaning almost snow from your rear casette with those strings With these you will just stuff that snow tighter into cassette.

    More seriously better solution for snow removal from rear cassette is this:


    but be aware that your beloved efficiency suffers and you lose on commuting/other race

  12. #62
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    i went from the hoff to singlespeed on my bike. No gear issues like that for me

    my hoffs going on my new fat bike build to replace the one with gears like that.....

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by manensky View Post
    I would love to see you on the side of the road cleaning almost snow from your rear casette with those strings With these you will just stuff that snow tighter into cassette.

    More seriously better solution for snow removal from rear cassette is this:


    but be aware that your beloved efficiency suffers and you lose on commuting/other race
    I'd like to see you using those string cleaners on the side of the road too. The compacted ice was rock hard and even trying to chisel it away with a screwdriver was useless.



    I respectfully disagree with Trail_Rat on this one after my experience. Even that tiny little brush wouldn't do the trick. IMO the better option is a Creme Brulee blowtorch, for size and compactness reasons.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter006 View Post
    I'd like to see you using those string cleaners on the side of the road too. The compacted ice was rock hard and even trying to chisel it away with a screwdriver was useless.

    I respectfully disagree with Trail_Rat on this one after my experience. Even that tiny little brush wouldn't do the trick. IMO the better option is a Creme Brulee blowtorch, for size and compactness reasons.
    That's the problem - when conditions are gnarly like that or what I'm more used to - mud - you can get gears working again, but the problem just keeps on happening so if you end up spending a lot of the day with your bike on the ground futzing with it vs. riding. In the cold/rain that's not very pleasant and the cost of an IGH seems very reasonable.
    Safe riding,

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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    That's the problem - when conditions are gnarly like that or what I'm more used to - mud - you can get gears working again, but the problem just keeps on happening so if you end up spending a lot of the day with your bike on the ground futzing with it vs. riding. In the cold/rain that's not very pleasant and the cost of an IGH seems very reasonable.
    Yeah, one could say the same thing about running slower yet more bulletproof tires. There's only so many flat tires you have to fix in ice cold hypothermic conditions before you think, "Hmm, you know, those bulletproof slower tires are not so bad."

    Quote Originally Posted by Trail_rat View Post
    i went from the hoff to singlespeed on my bike. No gear issues like that for me

    my hoffs going on my new fat bike build to replace the one with gears like that.....
    I miss my Surly Steamroller. 33,000 mi, a good amount in snow and ice... I'm thinking of getting a 'hoff for an Ogre since I'd rather not run that as a SS for commuting reasons, and it has the frame mounts for a 'hoff.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter006 View Post
    I'd like to see you using those string cleaners on the side of the road too. The compacted ice was rock hard and even trying to chisel it away with a screwdriver was useless.



    I respectfully disagree with Trail_Rat on this one after my experience. Even that tiny little brush wouldn't do the trick. IMO the better option is a Creme Brulee blowtorch, for size and compactness reasons.
    I 100% agree on this. Blowtorch is veeery useful when that compacted sloshy snow freezes between chain rings of the cassette.
    With brush's "saw" you can get unfreezed packed snow out, but forzen rock solid snow is totally different story.

  17. #67
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    why you disagree with me. i didnt suggest no brushes

    my experiances are around frozen mud at the strathpuffer 24 .... ive not run gears at tthat event since the first year - peeing on your bike - when you dont need to pee to get the freewheel to engage isnt fun !

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by HelmutHerr View Post
    Cheers.

    It's important to hear from people who didn't like the Rohloff because most of what's written about it is from enthused fans.

    The Rohloff situation seems to be:

    Pro:

    • Super reliable
    • Low maintenance
    • Cost saving over >5 years


    Con:

    • Expensive
    • Heavy on rear of bike
    • Might feel a bit draggy
    • Over a thousand bucks right there on my wheel for an enterprising thief


    I wonder if a better plan would be to try a Nexus 3 speed for a few months and see how I like the IGH before deciding whether to move up to a Rohloff.
    Mine was not super reliable, it went kaput in 400 miles. It was very draggy in the lower 7 gears, I timed myself being 10 to 13% slower numerous times on climbs, and mine had an explosive tendency shifting from 3rd to 4th gear to make a horrendous grinding sound with explosive OTB stand and mash disengagement of the freehub, that got worse and worse. I paid a bunch of money in shipping to Berkeley California to get it fixed, plus labor, with an almost brand new draggy gearbox being replaced with someone elses used, worn gear box, that while smoother, all the parts were more worn internally.

    Gear boxes have gear oil, and gear oil is a lot of drag on the motor, like molasses period, moreso than any chain and cassette drive system.

    I fell for the hype, and was very disappointed in the reality of the matter. Germans build a lot of crap product since East Germany and West Germany reunited, the quality is not there, in the build, the engineering might be there, but the execution and QC of such fine designs isn't.

    This has been my experience for the past 20 years with german product... Audi, VW, BMW, Bosch, VDO, Rohlof, Continental, Schwalbe etc.
    "i'll brazilian when YOU do boy, right around the ol' rusty star. Actually, whole fruit bowl. Get on it!" NicoleB

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by manensky View Post
    Hehe. this "just stop and easy clean chainwheels" was the number 1 reason for Rohloff purchase... it is not funny when you have to repeat cleaning after each 500m of riding. On the commuter racing you lose many points with that strategy

    Do you have any experience with Rohloff on low temp? When it gets below -5C I change so called winter oil mix into hub and so far I haven't experienced any xtra loss of efficiency with Rohloff compared to derailleur system.

    And when it gets below -15C I can say that derailleur system is really painful to keep 100% operational since a little bit of moisture means failing gear changes / total failure and frozen sproket on rear derailleur which causes real falling on efficiency. Riding on the cold climate with derailleur system means looooots of maintenance work.

    You might wan't to explain what happens to efficiency when your rear derailleur looks like this and temp goes below 0C?

    (pic credits: Mikha from fillarifoorumi.fi)

    I can personally say that on this situation it really suxx to ride with derailleur because efficiency is so poor compared to Rohloff on every gear.
    Non issue for me... jump into my 2012 VW Touareg TDI AWD to drive in snow, slush, rain whatever. Screw riding a bike in that kind of weather, even public transportation is better... you fall and break your neck in that ice on 2 wheels, what will it matter? Riding on 2 wheels in snow and ice is a health hazard.
    "i'll brazilian when YOU do boy, right around the ol' rusty star. Actually, whole fruit bowl. Get on it!" NicoleB

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy View Post
    Non issue for me... jump into my 2012 VW Touareg TDI AWD to drive in snow, slush, rain whatever. Screw riding a bike in that kind of weather, even public transportation is better... you fall and break your neck in that ice on 2 wheels, what will it matter? Riding on 2 wheels in snow and ice is a health hazard.
    Well I have to agree....While we don't get that extreme weather here in Ireland (not often anyways), it is wet and cold and wet and windy and wet....did I mention the rain, yes it rains a lot too. For me outside riding takes a backseat to the turbotrainer in the winter. This is why I probably disliked the Rohloff so much, it's forte seems to be conditions totally unsuitable for normal cycling...
    Regards David
    What are we going to do tonight, Brain? Same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world

  21. #71
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    My suggestion is to quit pondering and pull the trigger on a Rohloff since you'll always wonder what it would have been like. I've been on Rohloffs since 2002, still have my original hub plus three more (all ano red)...two are belted...one on a Merlin Jones Spaceframe, one on a Matt Chester...two are chain drive...Turner Sultan and a Black Sheep HT. There's a lot of BS flying around this thread on winter inefficiency...the gears really don't float in some deep, treacly oil bath, once some of the oil has seeped out of the hub you're left with ~15-25ml coating the gears and if you use the standard oil (there's no longer winter/summer oil) you're not getting much added resistance with temp drop. Just ride it, there may be some noise in the hub in some gears but I've ridden mine in all kinds of conditions, including endurance racing, and although there's probably some inefficiency in the hub, you'll get over it. When you start racing at the elite level by all means use a highly efficient derailleur setup since you're not paying for it. There's never going to be agreement on the hub, so just try it and if you don't like it, sell it.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2xPneu View Post
    My suggestion is to quit pondering and pull the trigger on a Rohloff since you'll always wonder what it would have been like.
    Ha! Maybe so.

    I'm in Australia, so there would only be an issue if it freaks out in the scorching heat.

  23. #73
    1*14*29*2.1 & 1*1*29*2.4
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    If you are in Brissy you can try mine out.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy View Post
    Non issue for me... jump into my 2012 VW Touareg TDI AWD to drive in snow, slush, rain whatever. Screw riding a bike in that kind of weather, even public transportation is better... you fall and break your neck in that ice on 2 wheels, what will it matter? Riding on 2 wheels in snow and ice is a health hazard.
    Nah... after sitting in the car/bus I would have to go to gym to get my daily dosage of exercise and it is not ideal situation when you don't have too much of free time for that. Secondly sitting in the car/bus is boring and makes your arse just wider...

  25. #75
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    i just stuck ice spikes on my commuter bike (with alfine) and its fine.

    prior to that i ran spikes on my fixie.

    I could jump in my defender but - as above - yall just get fat .... and my defender is colder than riding

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