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  1. #1
    Surly OG
    Reputation: MtnBikerDan's Avatar
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    Lack of Bottle Mounts... WTF?!

    I'm trying to understand why all the current All Mtn bikes are lacking a convenient water bottle mount?

    Whatever about the camelbak bs - If I'm riding for 5-10hrs, which I do in Tahoe, et al, I want a water bottle in the frame with HEED and water in my pack.

    I know the main market is loathe to ride for any amount of time longer than it takes to get from their shuttle drop to the trail, but this IMO is a lame choice.

    I ride an SCB LT classic w/bottle mount - but will be going to a bigger bike and the Giant ReignX with it's 6.7" of travel and room for a bottle of Hammer HEED in the frame, will likely be my next wheel.

    I've lost taste for SC bikes since they've gone overseas to meet production / quality demands / profit seek - and since that nationalistic is now moot, there's a huge world of equally well performing machines out there.

    Is every AM bike rider (aside from Weir) a saggy pant monster swillin' 2 hr ride shuttle weenie???? WTF!?

    Signed,
    Surly OG
    Earn your turns. )'(

  2. #2
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  3. #3
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    Those mounts are a PITA to set up and keep secure, and they will rub right through the paint on your bike. I would recommend getting a mount that doesn't rely upon plastic teeth on the strap to keep it secure.

  4. #4
    human dehumidifier
    Reputation: wv_bob's Avatar
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    My Big Mama has no cage mounts, so if I ride it, I've got a bag on my back.

    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...0&category=272
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...7&category=272
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...4&category=272
    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...7&category=272

    All those put the weight up high, and probably double as a bottle ejection unit too.

    Choose a hot day. Ride with a camel bak, then ride without it. The difference is significant.
    I may or may not be laughing at you.

  5. #5
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    I don't understand it either. Why would I want to carry water on my back when I can have it on my frame?
    Luckily my 2011 Giant Reign has bottle mounts.

  6. #6
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    They dont have mounts because most FS designs get in the way. Many XC and some AM bikes will have one. However, that one can be on the bottom of the down tube. That is a totally useless place. It can get ejected easy and gets full of dirt.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  7. #7
    Cthulhu fhtagn
    Reputation: Mike Gager's Avatar
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    zip ties are your friend

  8. #8
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    rivnut some mounts in if your that adamant about it.

    i know i dont use a bottle because it gets covered in crap flung onto it from the front tire.

  9. #9
    Moderator Moderator
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    Niner Bikes employee. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Niner-...3652275?ref=ts
    Front Range Forum Moderator

  10. #10
    Hmmmmm
    Reputation: Ericmopar's Avatar
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    Interesting banter.
    I ride my All Mountain / Trail Bike to the top and then shred down, through rocks and drops. IE. I use it for what it was made for...
    When I had a bike a few years ago with water bottle mounts, with cages, they broke, and ejected bottles under those conditions.
    The threaded inserts also tend to loosen in the frame under those kinds of riding conditions.
    The hole for the threaded inserts is also a stress riser in the frame material.
    "I thought of that while riding my bike."
    Albert Einstein, on the theory of relativity.

    Peace and Long Rides...

  11. #11
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar
    Interesting banter.
    I ride my All Mountain / Trail Bike to the top and then shred down, through rocks and drops. IE. I use it for what it was made for...
    When I had a bike a few years ago with water bottle mounts, with cages, they broke, and ejected bottles under those conditions.
    The threaded inserts also tend to loosen in the frame under those kinds of riding conditions.
    The hole for the threaded inserts is also a stress riser in the frame material.

    LOL, when was the last time a frame cracked at the bottle mounts?

    And this is not technically banter. More like people giving input and opinions.

  12. #12
    Hmmmmm
    Reputation: Ericmopar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino
    LOL, when was the last time a frame cracked at the bottle mounts?

    And this is not technically banter. More like people giving input and opinions.

    If you haven't seen an aluminum frame cracked at the inserts, then you must not have been riding too long.


    In any case, the problem of premature ejection is still there.
    No one likes premature ejection...

    So... Do you have a PHD in English?
    LOL.
    "I thought of that while riding my bike."
    Albert Einstein, on the theory of relativity.

    Peace and Long Rides...

  13. #13
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar
    If you haven't seen an aluminum frame cracked at the inserts, then you must not have been riding too long.


    In any case, the problem of premature ejection is still there.
    No one likes premature ejection...

    So... Do you have a PHD in English?
    LOL.
    I searched for threads or pics of frames with cracked bottle mounts, but didn't find any. I'd love to see some, as well as some evidence from a reputable aluminum framebuilder that addresses the issue of frames being weak at the bottle mounts. So weak, in fact, that they removed said mounts completely from frames to avoid breakage. Which is the result you inferred.

    No, I'm not a PhD in English, but I did complete high school. Guess that makes one of us, but thanks for asking .

  14. #14
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    FYI, this is banter .

  15. #15
    Old school BMXer
    Reputation: Blaster1200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino
    I searched for threads or pics of frames with cracked bottle mounts, but didn't find any. I'd love to see some, as well as some evidence from a reputable aluminum framebuilder that addresses the issue of frames being weak at the bottle mounts. So weak, in fact, that they removed said mounts completely from frames to avoid breakage. Which is the result you inferred.

    No, I'm not a PhD in English, but I did complete high school. Guess that makes one of us, but thanks for asking .
    Look at the old, old, old Foes Fly. It originally didn't come with water bottle mounts then after getting beat up by the rags, they installed them and then had lots of cracking problems.

    My question is if the OP is doing 5-10 hour rides and doesn't have a problem with a water bottle falling out of the cage, then he's doing XC rides, not AM rides.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmartino
    LOL, when was the last time a frame cracked at the bottle mounts?

    And this is not technically banter. More like people giving input and opinions.
    I've seen a bunch. If a frame has bottle mounts, sometimes it might have been compromised in design for them, meaning that they could have reduced wall thickness there, but needed to keep it up for those ****ing bottle mounts.

    I've also seen corrosion as the effect of dissimilar metals and either sweat or minerals in the riding region, which eventually lead to cracking.

    I would love to not have bottle mounts. However, I have them, and seem to not have ever used them since I ejected my last bottle, then got a new one, then broke the cage back in 1998.

  17. #17
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    If a frame is designed properly, and the bottle mounts are installed correctly, you won't have issues of cracking. Sounds like the Foes Fly had a poor design, even though I wasn't really able to find any other information about frame breakage aside from 1 review here on MTBR.

    Anyone have any pics? Or other compelling evidence that would lead me to believe that I should fear my water bottle mounts? Or is this just all hearsay?

  18. #18
    Old school BMXer
    Reputation: Blaster1200's Avatar
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    I don't think strength is the real reason mounts aren't on many AM frames. I think it's really that so few people even want/need them. There's probably really so little demand for them on AM bikes.
    May the air be filled with tires!

  19. #19
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaster1200
    I don't think strength is the real reason mounts aren't on many AM frames. I think it's really that so few people even want/need them. There's probably really so little demand for them on AM bikes.

    I definitely agree. Plus water bottles are prone to falling out of their cages, as many other people have stated. I also like the extra feeling of protection my camelback offers - it's protected me a few times after eating it pretty hard.

  20. #20
    Undercaffienated
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    I agree with the OP. While, judging by most of the replies in this thread so far, it appears that bottle mounts on this category of bikes is falling out of favor, I believe that having bottle mounts on trail/all mountain bikes makes sense, if only for having options. I ride with the 3L camelbak bladder full to the brim + energy mix in a bottle in the frame-mounted cage. I like putting the bottle in the back jersey pockets when I am doing short rides with no pack, but with a pack it isn't possible to use those pockets for large items like a bottle. I also sometimes just put the bottle in the pack if I am using a larger one with roomy cargo capacity (like the Dakine Nomad). It won't fit inside along with all the other stuff in smaller ones, though.

    My current bike has the mounts below the downtube, so not the most convenient location, but I think a sideloader style cage can solve this problem. I put a plastic bag on the bottle's nozzle to ward off the dirt.

  21. #21
    Go Leafs Go
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    i don't have any mounts on my Transition TransAM. drove me nuts before i got a camelback. honestly, how much MORE in manufacturing costs is it to drill two bloody holes in a frame....

  22. #22
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    I agree with the OP. If you are well hydrated before you go out on a ride you can ride pretty far with two bottles of water. I am a minamalists and can't stand to wear a backpack.

  23. #23
    bi-winning
    Reputation: rkj__'s Avatar
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    Cracking? Come on. It's not hard to properly design a water bottle mount in a way that won't lead to a frame failure.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


    Shorthills Cycling Club

  24. #24
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    the prototype Turner RFX has the water bottle inserts in the frame. I'm sure the production
    will also have them. Great american made frames.

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